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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 798
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:45 am: | 
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ok here is the complete list;
25. Jheri Curls
On behalf of furniture everywhere, lay off the activator. Michael hair's caught on fire, there is a lesson there. Was the Jheri curl ever cool?
24. Hurricane Katrina
Hurricane Katrina was the costliest and one of the deadliest hurricanes in the history of the United States. Katrina formed in late August during the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season and caused devastation along much of the north-central Gulf Coast of the United States. Most notable in media coverage were the catastrophic effects on the city of New Orleans, La., and coastal Mississippi. Criticism of the federal, state and local governments' reaction to the storm was widespread. Kanye West will long be remembered for his comment about George W Bush. Where were our leaders and WHERE was the help!
23. The ‘N-Word’
Is this a term of endearment in the Black community? Is it ever acceptable to use the “N-word?”
22. The Counter Intelligence Program
Nicknamed “COINTELPRO,” it is that the vehicle by which the FBI and police investigated and disrupted the activities of Black political leaders and organizations in the United States. Among the subjects were Martin Luther King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Black Panthers. The founding document of COINTELPRO directed FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders
21. Elvis
Sure, there were others – including Paul Whiteman, Benny Goodman, Pablo Picasso and Pat Boone – but Elvis was perhaps the biggest and most impactive of the Black-culture pimps.
20. Negative Images in Hip Hop
The defamation of women in lyrics, deaths related to gangster rap and how they reinforce the notion that it’s cool to be a thug, sell drugs and exploit women.
19. The ‘Bling’ Phenomenon
The “bling” phenomenon has converted old-fashioned ideas into new-fangled fads. “Bling” has been tied to blood diamonds in African, fueling the suggestion that African Americans are more interested in petty materialism than in community investment and growth.
18. Welfare
Government financial aid doled out to certain individuals, groups or entities that are unable to support themselves, Welfare has become like quicksand for far too many African Americans, in the eyes of a growing number of Americans. Is the Black community guilty of taking advantage of Welfare? Stereotypes about Welfare.
17. Justice System / Prison
Why are all our men locked up? Are we given a fair shake in the court system? Is legislation, like the Rockefeller Drug Laws, created specifically to target Black men?
16. Color struck
With “paper bag” tests and all the other nonsense that comes along with self-hate, the Black community has been plagued by a psychological disease known as “slave mentality.” And don’t forget the subsets of self-hate like the adoration of “good hair” and disdain for broad noses, thick lips and anything remotely reminiscent of our Black African heritage.
15. Ward Connerly
No Black man has worked so hard to maintain the White man’s gargantuan head start.
14. Supreme Court
Known for such landmark injustices as Plessey v. Ferguson, the Dred Scott decision and the 2000 election debacle, the U.S. Supreme Court also provided a few not-so-repulsive surprises, like the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments and Brown v. Topeka Board of Education. How does Thurgood Marshall and his successor, Clarence Thomas, fit into the High Court discussion?
13. Ronald Reagan
Perhaps the first sign what Ronald Reagan would mean to Black America was when he decided to kick off his presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Miss., with a crowd of Klansmen in attendance. The city was most famous for the murders of three civil rights workers in 1964. His presidency arguably destroyed the hopes of a generation. During his term he attempted to dismantle of public education system and created “Reaganomics,” which hindered prosperity from trickling down to the Black masses.
12. The Bombing of Black Wall Street
The sight of a happy, affluent Black community was too much for angry, jealous Whites in Tulsa, Okla., in 1921, and a false rumor was enough to spark a mass riot that left hundreds of African Americans dead, and a swath of Black homes and businesses burned to the ground. Perhaps the saddest fact associated with this historic atrocity is that the U.S. government and local media were complicit in the death and destruction.
11. Soul Food
Sure it tastes good, but it will kill you. It is fatty, salty, with too much sugar.
10. Gangs
Crips and Bloods who fight for streets they do not own. It is a blatant war on Black unity.
9. Hollywood
8. Murders of Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King
The deaths of our two greatest leaders at early ages left a void that has never been properly filled. Their lives were cut short in the midst of their most important work. Are we living up to their dreams?
7. Proud To Be Dumb
When did it become cool to be dumb? When did it become corny to be smart? Why are some Black kids “too cool for school?”
6. The Ku Klux Klan
Forged during Reconstruction, to beat back the advances of newly freed slaves after the Civil War, the KKK erupted into a fraternity of White supremacists bent on the annihilation and anarchy. It later expanded its web of hate to include, Jews, Catholics, foreigners and gays. The Klan’s usual tools of destruction are terrorism, intimidation and perpetuation of ignorance.
5. Apartheid
South Africa’s brutal system of racial segregation, enforced by the White Afrikaner population for nearly five decades, apartheid finally ended in 1994. But it took a string riots, murders and martyrs – in addition to mounting pressure from the United States and other nations to label South Africa a pariah – to force the racist regime’s hand. In a true reversal of circumstances, Nelson Mandela, South Africa’s most powerful symbol of resistance to apartheid, ascended from longtime political prisoner to president of the troubled nation.
4. Religion
The fact that both Christianity and Islam condoned slavery is an undeniable stain on organized religion. But on the flip side, Quakers and others who believed that slavery was blight on humanity, manned the Underground Railroad and waxed eloquently against its evils. In addition, the Black community’s faith in a better society carried it through the throes of inequality.
3. AIDS
If it is a biological weapon, it’s a brilliant one. What else has the power to begin emptying out the continent of Africa while wiping out the Black inner-cities of America? There are more than 40 million AIDS orphans in Africa; in the United States, Black Americans, who comprise only 13 percent of the U.S. population account for more than 40 percent of all AIDS cases.
2. Drugs
Crack, heroin, cocaine and alcohol are the most efficient ways to undermine the Black family, Black progress and Black ambition. They are far more effective in destroying Black folks than lynchings .
1. Slavery
If this doesn't speak for itself, I don't know what does.
Is there an event you thought should have made the list? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8545
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:03 am: |
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There is a little something I'd like to add called Jim Crow.
And Babymomma-Babydaddy might make such a dubious listing. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4527
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:10 am: |
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1) Niggerdom
2) Uncle Tomism
3) Selling out Black folk for crumbs
(All niggerism)
As a result, we lack a solid group/class/foundation to build Black excellence around. Our upper, middle and now even our "lower' classes care only about their image, and nothing at all about who or what they are. And it's been this way throughout history... nothing to build ourselves around besides those that are mostly dead and gone... And sadly the possibilities we may have once had appear to have died right 'long side them. …(My pessimistic view for the hour.) |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:31 am: |
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10. Gangs
Crips and Bloods who fight for streets they do not own. It is a blatant war on Black unity.
Latina_WI: We are having a real problem with gang culture in the big cities in the UK (especially Manchester and London). It is less to do with destroying black unity (but young black men and boys are the most likely to be affected). There are a great many complex issues that keeps gangs in the UK alive.
In the space of eleven days three young boys (two black, one half thai and half white - I think could be half thai/half black) were shot dead in one area of south London. They were fifteen and sixteen and the african boy who was killed was a victim of 'a case of mistaken identity).
We then had three more shootings in Manchester. There are now calls for a zero-tolerance policy to be used (like the one used in New York) and tougher laws.
It makes me quite mad as I can understand why it would be easy for a young black and hispanic man in the USA to fall in with a gang, he is vulnerable. But the UK has given it's ethnic minority citizens a very good reception and great chances.
LOL, I know this has nothing to do with blacks in America. Just thought I would highlight that a lot of the problems blacks face in the USA also affect blacks on a global basis. And not just blacks but other more vulnerable ethnic minority groups. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8547
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 11:24 am: |
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Latina_wi,
How is it better for minorities in Great Britain than it is in America? |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3701
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 11:35 am: |
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Clarence Thomas
Superfly
Discovery of white women
Television
Pork and liquor (the white man's poison)
Hair straighteners
Skin lighteners
10. Gangs
Crips and Bloods who fight for streets they do not own. It is a blatant war on Black unity
(This is why I also list The Rise of the Black Middle Class-
You fear and hate lower class blacks. Why don't you leave them alone and tend to your own business? Most of you don't live anywhere near the inner city or gangs. You are only afraid you are going to have to hear it from your white coworkders and not say nothing.
When they ask you about Crips and Bloods, ask them about the Aryan Nation, Hell's Angels, Mafia, etc.
Street gangs are the American way. All the minorities came up with these gangs. And the next ones to come here will have them too--do have them, as any visit to Chinatown, Little Korea, Little Saigons, etc will show.
The present Mayor of Chicago's father was a member of an Irish street gang, Ragan's Colts. Their motto was, If you hit me you hit 2,000. They metamorphosed into the machine that rules Chicago now.
Certainly you don't think "We shall Overcome" means a damn thing in the real world of American politics?
You will wind up working for, buying from, and voting for some of these gang members in the future. You should make nice.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7446
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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You make a blanket indictment of the entire black middle class, chrishayden, just for effect and drama. What you say doesn't charactrize this entire segment of the black population. There are millions of blacks who do not live in the ghetto or the inner city who have not lost their blackness and who do not delude themselves into thinking that they have it made in this racist country. Many of them are one generation away from the ghetto and have not forgotten where they came from just as many of them were among those who criticized Cosby. You always speak in absolutes and never give credit where credit is due becuse doing so would blow your whole game of being the self-appointed savior of inner-city denizens. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3706
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
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Cynique:
That's what I say about yo' kind:
Scratch a boogie and find a militant!
Are we getting a little steamed at how those dogs the Clintons are doing Obama? Or maybe it was Sammy Sosa going to Texas?
How about Lovie Smith getting screwed by Da Bears?
Heeheehee. When it's all over you'll be wearing a tam and a black leather jacket! |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 805
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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tonya i think all of your points where covered in the top 25 lists
ward connerly= uncle tomism
niggerdom = n-word, and proud to be dumb
selling out blacks for crumb= ward connerly, holloywood, bling , and hiphop |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 806
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:51 pm: |
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b.e.t forgot to add themselves to the list too  |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 170
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:56 pm: |
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Latina_wi,
How is it better for minorities in Great Britain than it is in America?
Latina_WI: Well, considering ethnic minorities in the UK amount to less than 8% of the UK's population we are mainstream and seen as 'typical' in British life.
I will sum it up like this: on holiday in Turkey my family and I met up with a British-Asian family (Asian in Britain often refers to Indian, Pakistani et cetera as opposed to Oriental in the US). They were EXTREMELY upset about the unkind racial harrassment they were facing in Turkey (disgustingly, some of it was aimed at their young sons) and the mother said 'I used to think Britain was quite intolerant but I realise how welcoming they actually are'.
The UK government does try its very best to be as equal and welcoming to minorities as possible but often to it's own detriment. Due to multiculturalism being held up as almost virtuious we now have a problem were a lot of people who have lived in the UK cannot speak english very well (HSBC bank has now set up one of its British based phone lines in Polish due to this problem and the amount of Polish people coming to the UK).
Like I said, though the amount of ethnic minorities in the UK is very small we are viewed as the norm. Interracial marriages are not viewed as 'odd' or a big deal.
I hate making these blanket statements as obviously there is racism and predjudice in the UK, but not to a huge extent and maybe not as 'accepted' as the USA. For example, to me it is very odd that biracial people in the USA are considered black and that BM/WW relationships are still viewed as 'taboo', the part of England I was brought up in has almost got over that.
There are many other things, I wish I could go through all of them. Obviously, my experience is a lot different from everyone's and my comparisons to the USA are often based on what I read and what my Grandad et cetera tells me (some of my family live in NY and Florida). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7449
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:00 pm: |
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No, Chrishayden, I'm not getting steamed by any of those events you mentioned. What do I care about ol married-to-a-white-woman Lovie not making 5 million dollars a year, especially since his mediocre coaching skills coupled with his refusal to bench Grossman contributed to a superbowl loss. And I'm not sympathetic to Obama; now he can't speak out because he is beholden to David Geffen whose inflammatory statement is the first crack in the Democratic unity, putting the party on a path way to self-destruction. As for that steroid-taking Dominican Sammy Sosa, he's his own worst enemy and he's also an ex-Cub and I'm a Sox fan. Find me some real heroes to get excited about. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 171
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:03 pm: |
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Also: ABM,I am going on the assumption that 'Jim Crow' is such a big deal its affects may still be seen in the USA today....?
We didn't have anything like that in the UK fifty years ago, or when ethnic minorities first started arriving in the UK. Many were invited into Britain by all accounts. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 810
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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cynique:
don't forget i am a hero on this site because by day i am just regular ol doberman23 ... but when the opportunity comes i become the "lswd" light skinned woman defender |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4540
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:16 pm: |
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b.e.t forgot to add themselves to the list too..
They wrote this???
I can by no means BELIEVE that B. E. T. even had the nerve! Wow. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:27 pm: |
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Latina_wi:
But the UK has given it's ethnic minority citizens a very good reception and great chances.
What? Thats not what my black Brit friends say, and it aint even what the history books tell us...there has been for a long history of police brutality directed at black brits, especially West Indians. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7451
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:28 pm: |
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Siiiigh. Yes, Dobes, you are a hero who deserves credit for having the courage to like fair damsels when there are so many witches that you could fall for. I dub you Sir Idhitdat. You never cease to amuse me with your wicked humor. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:29 pm: |
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hmm....isn't chrishayden part of the black middle class, who else has time to read all of dem books? Only middle class people spend so much time reading [this, of course, doesn't mean working class people dont, but the quality of the leisure time is considerably different]. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3713
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:31 pm: |
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hmm....isn't chrishayden part of the black middle class, who else has time to read all of dem books? Only middle class people spend so much time reading
(How do you think I know what I am talking about?) |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3714
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:36 pm: |
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Yes, I am part of the Middle class, though probably born in the underclass and grown into the blue collar class.
I know all the games that middle class Negroes play. I have seen them. I know them. I have talked about them.
Let me tell you where I was a fool. For a long time I thought that I was superior to the other middle class Negroes, that they didn't know what they were doing.
One time I attended a swearing in party for a friend who was becoming a Federal Judge and got to talk to a bunch of them.
They know. They know just what they are doing and why. Blew my mind.
I don't mind someone being a boogie, and doing what they think they have to to survive. I am not going to lift a finger to help them, especially after seeing how we produced a Clarence Thomas.
They used to always say during the 60's N***as ain't ready. Well, we're not.
I am not upset at the backstabbing and the pettiness and ignorance.
I just don't like the lying about it anymore, is all.
Be honest. You'll be glad you did. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 172
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:39 pm: |
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What? Thats not what my black Brit friends say, and it aint even what the history books tell us...there has been for a long history of police brutality directed at black brits, especially West Indians.
Latina_WI: That is why I said I do not like making blanket statements and my experience is just that - MY experience of the UK.
My parents have lived here since the 1960s and though they have experienced racism (ironically, my mother has experienced this mostly by africans) it by no means touches the experiences of blacks on a whole in the USA.
Young west indian men have been denounced by the older ones simply for the fact that they incoorporate and encourage an image that older west indians do not understand (that of being gangsters) and an image they haven't been taught. A lot of this is do with self fullfilling prophecies, being told you are trouble enough times and you will act that way.
West Indians may encounter slightly more prejudice than others in the UK but so do young working class white men (or chavs as they are called over here), they are one of the most discriminated groups in society.
Older west indians will also say that a lot of the problems young black men encounter is down to their own fault. 40% more likely to be imprisoned, therefore you will get stopped a lot more if you come across as suspcious (the same way young asian men were stopped if they looked suspcious after 7/7).
Police brutality in the UK doesn't have a long history as the sheer number of blacks living in the UK has only come about in the last sixty years at the most. Maybe your black british friends have had differently, but I know a lot of young black britons who feel like I do.
Also, let's not forget the fact that 50% of west indian men have a non-black partner. If white society was so terrible to them it wouldn't be reflected in this stat. Many do take white partners because they long to fit in more, but most take white partners because they 'fit in' already (this is the case in my family also were I have older relatives with white partners who see it as 'no big deal').
Overall caribbeans, especially Jamaicans, are held in quite high esteem in this country on a cultural basis. OBEs have been awarded to caribbean poets and caribbeans are on a regular on british television amongst many things. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3715
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:40 pm: |
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For, when it comes right down to it, all those behaviors that you dump on the lower class Negroes for, and they are foul, you do to.
He wants him a white skank. You'll get a white burger flipper.
He wants him a pimpmobile. You want a mercedes.
He wants him some vile cheap loud jewelry. You want a rolex.
He wants to go to the club. You want to go skiing.
It's all a matter of degree. He is gross. You are gross with style and finesse.
They are pimps, hoes, and thieves. You are entrepreneurs, careerwomen and businessmen. One is illegal and the other is not.
Both stink.
Where you look ridiculous is in not realizing it. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1696
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:49 pm: |
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You will wind up working for, buying from, and voting for some of these gang members in the future.
Not if they do not survive. That is one differnce between crime as a means of upward mobility in times/with groups past and now with Blacks. If I saw more gang members using their $ to send their kids through law and B-school, then I might believe your scenario.
On that note, I am trying to access a new study to share here that found that imprisoned men who maintained a positive relationship with their kids while in prison had kids w/lower delinquincy rates and they themselves had lower repeat offending rates. So perhaps there is hope... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8549
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 01:51 pm: |
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Latina_wi,
Well. I know little to nothing about how the AVERAGE British person - be he/she White, Black, Brown or Yellow. So I can't make any decent comparison between the experiences of Brits and those of Americans. I will say, though, obviously Britain and America have very DIFFERENT histories, particularly with respect how and by whom the nation was founded, financed, their ages, etc.
Britain has already gone through much of what America is currently embroiled, being the world's great superpower, imperialistic colonizer, etc. The UK, including it's leaders and it's people has had it's comeupance in ways that the powerful and majority in America have yet to even remotely experiences. And I believe it's the humbling of the UK that has probably compelled White foks there to drop much of the racial BS White foks here are still able to cling to.
The Brit's were booted OUT of so MANY places the past Century, it seems only logical the English might begin to realize they weren't QUITE the Big Sh*t they'd previously tricked other foks into believing.
That, plus, White foks thoroughout much of Europe are barely at, if not, below, the necessary population replacement rate. Basically, they're almost dying off over there. For Europe to survive and thrive, it NEEDS for it non-Black foks to succeed.
I will say this, though. I've YET to witness much of ANY Black and other non-White Brits appear to RUN things over there. My wife and I watch lots of British visual media (available via Direct TV) and we seldom see Blacks prominently featured, particularly in LEADSHIP positions. And I don't know if I've seen any Blacks in the airing of those meetings Prime Minister Blair periodically has with the House of Commons.
I admit, though, it's probable I've received merely a fraction of what appears to be going on over there. Perhaps when I visit London (which my wife has been ragging me about for year now), I'll get a better picture of things.
PS: Does Blair regularly meet with the House of LORDS? If he does, I wonder why is THAT is not available for viewing here in the States. Lastly, are or have there EVER been any Black member of the House of Lords? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8550
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:00 pm: |
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Latina_wi,
I think one could argue that Jim Crow ranks right behind Slavery as the very worst thing to happen to African Americans. Because by disallowing Blacks the right to vote, own property, attend certain school, borrow/lend money and protest injustices (rapes, lynchings, murderer, terroristic activities, etc.); Jim Crow basically allowed White foks to maintain and enforce a de facto form of enslavement of Blacks here.
And, yes, the effects of Jim Crow are still very MUCH in effect here. Because, understand, it's been only recent as 30 years or so Black foks can be assured of even being allowed to VOTE in much of this country without fear of being lynched. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7452
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:01 pm: |
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What you seem to be saying, chrishayden, is that there's no hope for black people, that nothing they do is right on any level, that they are lost and will never measure up. How would you respond if a white person implied this? BTW, I am not "bougie" because I don't like materialistic superficial people. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 174
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:16 pm: |
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ABM; I have never before looked at it that way (as to why the British are the way the way they are) and I am in definite agreement with you about the UK become 'humbled' from its arrogant colonial days.
The english, in the past, were known for being the most arrogant and pompous (Winston Churchill's attempts to make certain places in Africa and Asia more 'superior' by making it more 'British) is one example. Also, the english's views on the Irish and Scots in the past (famous signboards that went up - 'no blacks, no dogs, no irish' when people were letting rooms in the 1960s) and the treatment of Irish people are another piece of evidence. The Irish were made slaves in parts of the caribbean and their descendants can still be found in areas of Barbados. These views are almost gone now (you always get some fogey who tries to relive the bygone era of colonialsm lol) and I nod my head at the reasons you put it to be.
And Northern Europe, which the UK often tries to emulate with their liberal policies, is in need of more non-white folks as they ARE dying out. So funny you should mention that as there are small debates going on about the fact that white people are not procreating as much as before (in Europe).
As for MPs in the houses of parliaments, I did have to research this lol. The first non-white MP since the war was elected in 1987 (four Labour MPs from an ethnic minority background). Following the election in 2005, 2.3% of members of parliament were from ethnic minority backgrouds. Britain does need to fix up with things like this (it has been widely commented) but I am sure it will as more ethnic minorities and young people are becoming interested in politics.
I have a deep interest in politics and society (which is why I visit boards like this, they come in very handy for mye degree lol) and I would love to become a member of parliament one day, or at least a councilor. It is not uncommon to have asian or west indian mayors in British towns. The city I live in now is tiny and has just elected it's first asian mayor.
I will look up the house of lords thing a bit more for you (lol you may have to remind me though). |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3717
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:29 pm: |
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What you seem to be saying, chrishayden, is that there's no hope for black people, that nothing they do is right on any level, that they are lost and will never measure up. How would you respond if a white person implied this? BTW, I am not "bougie" because I don't like materialistic superficial people.
(Try to address WHAT I say, not WHAT I SEEM to be saying.
That is not what I am saying at all) |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3718
Registered: 03-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:32 pm: |
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You will wind up working for, buying from, and voting for some of these gang members in the future.
Not if they do not survive. That is one differnce between crime as a means of upward mobility in times/with groups past and now with Blacks. If I saw more gang members using their $ to send their kids through law and B-school, then I might believe your scenario
(If they are doing it here in St. Louis, and they are, because I know some of them I know they are doing it where you are.
They do not advertise where they are from or what they are doing because that will bring down the heat. But those who survive the streets are taking the routes to respectability.
It is the American way. I don't like it, but I don't make the rules. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7453
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:36 pm: |
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Well, why don't you elucidate and tell me what you are actually saying about black people, chrishsayden. And try to exercise more consistency and less vagueness. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3719
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:38 pm: |
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So you are saying that the only blacks who are worthy of being called people are the middle class? See my new thread, "The Tradgedy of the Negro Middle Class" for some more enlightenment, then query further. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1900
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 02:56 pm: |
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Latina_wi: not only did I say friends, but I also said books. The books say that blacks have been in britain since the transatlantic slave trade. And that as early as the 1920s, blacks were victims of police brutality in england. Marcus Garvey discussed this in many of his speeches.
Thus police brutality, here, that is in the U.S., or in the UK was never about numbers, it was purely a question of keeping black people in their place.
Concerning what people in the present think, well that is another story. Considering that many people, including blacks themselves, would admit that racism is terrible here in the states, the fact that older black brits blame younger black Brits is just a matter of generation bias, and a tendency by the old, regardless of race, to claim that things were more difficult than in the past than they are in the present...you will here this across the black atlantic--US, Europe, Caribbean: "you young people got it easy, when I was a kid we didnt even have . . . "
A good assessment of some of this history is:
Winston James and Clive Harris, Inside Babylon: the Caribbean Diaspora in Britain.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8555
Registered: 04-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 03:10 pm: |
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Latina_wi,
Thanks for mentioned the Irish in Barbados. I suppose that explains why the Barbadian I've seen are Whiter in appearance, than, say their fellow West Indies Jamacians.
I must say I'm a bit of an Anglophile. Because, really, as White foks go, the British have for much of the last millenium been right up there.
Not excusing all the imperialism and tyranny that accompanied the British. But, hey, we (and most of the more potent areas of the world) speak English, our American government, laws and judiciary process/procedures are substantially English. And even very much of our overall social and cultural coding and tone is British in origin and/or inspiration.
Much of the better elements of Britain has, indeed, held up quite well.
But your reference to Churchill reminds me of something I recall reading of another famed Brit. I think it was Lord Alfred Tennyson (please don't hold me to that) who said something to the effect of The problem with the English is that as they civilize the world, there's no one left to civilized the English. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 177
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
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I admit, though, it's probable I've received merely a fraction of what appears to be going on over there. Perhaps when I visit London (which my wife has been ragging me about for year now), I'll get a better picture of things.
Latina_WI: I do hope you take your wife to London ABM as I am more than certin you will love it. Many americans have come to the UK and have loved, and been surprised, by it.
I could be being biased as I am a born Londoner as well and miss it myself (Wales doesn't quite have the edge lol) but London is a great cultural experience. There are several other places in the UK I would recommend you see too. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 178
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 10:59 am: |
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Latina_wi: not only did I say friends, but I also said books. The books say that blacks have been in britain since the transatlantic slave trade. And that as early as the 1920s, blacks were victims of police brutality in england. Marcus Garvey discussed this in many of his speeches.
Latina_WI: Blacks HAVE been in the UK for a very very long time (hence Liverpool and the fact that a black person was the first non-white to open a shop in the UK). But they haven't been in the UK, before the 1950s, in such large numbers. Before the 1950s they amounted to less than 0.5% of the populatiion, even today blacks in britain account for less than 2% which is why I was disputing the 'long history' of police brutality. Apart from the SUS laws blacks have had the same amount as police brutality as any minority, or even majority, group in the UK. Blacks in the UK were far more likely to suffer the consequences of mobs as opposed to police so it was often a case of the police PROTECTING black people from members of the public (famous case in the 1920s were blacks were employed as factory workers in East London and were set upon by an angry crowd).
The UK is not only suffering the consequences of our notorious gutter press who sensationalise everything to sell papers, but also people who are pushed into PC.
From what I have seen as a person born and bred in the UK, and heard from older asians and west indians, britain does it best to show it abhors racism (see the racist killing of Anthony Walker who died in Liverpool and its consequences today)
Thus police brutality, here, that is in the U.S., or in the UK was never about numbers, it was purely a question of keeping black people in their place.
Latina_WI: In the UK it has a lot to do with keeping anyone remotely different in their place. The irish for example and the amount of times many were wrongly imprisoned in the 1960s. SUS laws like I said before. A lot of police men and women are on power trips and love to exert and abuse the authority they have which is reflected in their prejudices.
Concerning what people in the present think, well that is another story. Considering that many people, including blacks themselves, would admit that racism is terrible here in the states, the fact that older black brits blame younger black Brits is just a matter of generation bias, and a tendency by the old, regardless of race, to claim that things were more difficult than in the past than they are in the present...you will here this across the black atlantic--US, Europe, Caribbean: "you young people got it easy, when I was a kid we didnt even have . . . "
Latina_WI: Yes, I agree that a lot of it is generational bias but I do believe that a lot of older west indians are right in their assesments on some young black men in the UK as many have lost their values and live a life which is SO disorted and far removed from their parent's own. Often it is a case of teenage rebellion but it does go far deeper than that.
It is also a case of caribbean 'small island' 'big island' prejudices coming into the UK. It is quite a hard thing to explain to someone who may not understand the factions and disputes between the west indian communities, there is so much to discuss.
Moreover, we are now getting yardies in the UK and it is a big problem now which is why some west indian males are scrutinised by the police.
One west indian guy I was talking to a few weeks back was surprised about how many yardies were allowed to come and live in Britain.
I don't want to bore you yukio lol as the whole west indian thing is rather tedious to explain and like I said, extremely hard. Many people have trouble understanding it.
I will say this though, I think institutionalised racism isn't something that is core in the UK. Black girls in britain do far better in schooling than their white counterparts (both male and in some cases, female). If I lived in a system that was rife with racism and prejudice everywhere I went I doubt this would be the case.
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Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 179
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 11:02 am: |
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Thanks for mentioned the Irish in Barbados. I suppose that explains why the Barbadian I've seen are Whiter in appearance, than, say their fellow West Indies Jamacians
Latina_WI: On a tangent my three older sisters are my half sisters and are half-Bajan. Their dad cracks me up as he looks like a white matiness idol with brown skin lol!
My aunty is also a direct descendant of a irish slave. She was checking out her surname, and assuming it was a slave name so didn't excpect to find much.
She was extremely shocked to discover that her ancestor's records were well kept and showed that he was one of the many irish slaves sent to the islands. |
Yukio
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Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1908
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:53 pm: |
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Latina_wi: herein lies a typical problem in this kind of discussion.
the reader of a phenomenon v. an rational
eyewitness of a phenomenon.
As I said, its not about numbers its about containment. But I'll defer to you, because it is rare for the empirical to best the anecdotal.
So let me respectfully correct you, however, on something neither can claim to have eyewitnessed:
Your comment, for example, about the Irish in Barbadoes is only half right...they were not slaves, they were indentured servants.
Their servitude was brief, quite brief, for once they completed the term of indenture they were able to live on the island and start their life as free men. In fact, African slavery was so entrenched in Barbadoes the first sugar island in the Caribbean, that the Irish did very litte work as 'servants.' Some of the Irish were overseers, some opened up small business that catered to the very small white population and especially the landlord who were rarely there, as well as the local government. Some tried to become planters, but generally lacked the capital to compete, and failed; many were poor, often casual workers.
But slaves, NO! Not true! If one tells you that, they meant an indentured servant, but not a slave; and if they were ever slaves, it wasn't in Barbadoes.
And yes, there ancestors are still there in Barbadoes and throughout the Caribbean accent and all, but they were NOT slaves, they were the overseers, civil servants, and poor whites...
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Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 184
Registered: 08-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 09:56 am: |
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Irish people WERE defintely slaves, if they said anything against the English they were sold into capitivty and sent to Barbados. The english were ferocious in their rule against the Irish and Scots - an English man was allowed to sleep with a scottish virgin bride the night she was wed - BEFORE her husband.
I had a very good Irish friend who schooled me, and another Irish born lad, on some of the stuff Ireland went through under English rule. They were sent to French Guiana and Barbados (the two places my friend was sure of). You can still see the White Bajans in the mountains today (they are quite a tourist attraction and are visibly inbred).
That is what I was told by a few Irish people anyway, could be very biased as the Irish still have a strong hatred of the English (as do the wlesh and the scots).
And Yukio; I was just giving my own account as to what I witness as a black person in Britain. It is defintely different from other people's own experiences. Will defintely look up the references you gave me though, I am always willing to look at different persepctives. |
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