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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 11:26 am: | 
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See website for program listings in your area: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/
Filmmaker Byron Hurt, a life-long hip-hop fan, was watching rap music videos on BET when he realized that each video was nearly identical. Guys in fancy cars threw money at the camera while scantily clad women danced in the background. As he discovered how stereotypical rap videos had become, Hurt, a former college quarterback turned activist, decided to make a film about the gender politics of hip-hop, the music and the culture that he grew up with. “The more I grew and the more I learned about sexism and violence and homophobia, the more those lyrics became unacceptable to me,” he says. “And I began to become more conflicted about the music that I loved.” The result is HIP-HOP: Beyond Beats and Rhymes, a riveting documentary that tackles issues of masculinity, sexism, violence and homophobia in today’s hip-hop culture...
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8504
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
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Yvettep,
I wonder whether foks have mentioned to "former college quarterback turned activist" Hurt that there's PLENTY "issues of masculinity, sexism, violence and homophobia" in collegiate FOOTBALL as well. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1680
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 11:43 am: |
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Perhaps that is why the topic resonated so well with him... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8505
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 11:57 am: |
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Yvettep,
Then why did Hurt not focus on the evils of collegiate sports?
I'm NOT defending the ills of hip-hop. But I find it interesting how hip-hoppers (in particular, young Black males) are cast as the purveyors of pathologies that have existed LONG before they were ever born.
Still, I will try to watch Hurt's documentary. I just hope he has the stones and savvy to explore the fact that all the hoochie-coochie poppin that occurs on BET is the product of decisions being made by foks who have Ivy League pedigrees. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 439
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:24 pm: |
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I saw the documentary and listened to a panel discussion afterwords. I have to give Byron a pat on the back for his courage. There's a segment of the documentary that involves Mos Def, Busta Rhymes, and Talib Kweli(pay close attention to this one!) LOL !
It's worth watching and shows a different perspective that hasn't been explored. Maybe the reason why he chose to focus on hip hop because it was easier, more funding, more interest...who knows ? ABM, I always suggest to people that want to see a documentary on a particular subject to make it themselves. It's not that hard in these digital days. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:30 pm: |
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Not sure I understand your reaction to this brother. Why should the existence of "evils" in collegiate sports preclude his exploration of hip hop? At any rate, maybe the rest of the description will address some of your other concerns:
Sparking dialogue on hip-hop and its declarations on gender, HIP-HOP: Beyond Beats and Rhymes provides thoughtful insight from intelligent, divergent voices including rap artists, industry executives, rap fans and social critics from inside and outside the hip-hop generation. The film includes interviews with famous rappers such as Mos Def, Fat Joe, Chuck D and Jadakiss and hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons; along with commentary from Michael Eric Dyson, Beverly Guy-Sheftall, Kevin Powell and Sarah Jones and interviews with young women at Spelman College, a historically black school and one of the nation’s leading liberal arts institutions.
The film also explores such pressing issues as women and violence in rap music, representations of manhood in hip-hop culture, what today’s rap lyrics reveal to their listeners and homoeroticism in hip-hop. A “loving critique” from a self-proclaimed “hip-hop head,” HIP-HOP: Beyond Beats and Rhymes discloses the complex intersection of culture, commerce and gender through on-the-street interviews with aspiring rappers and fans at hip-hop events throughout the country. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8508
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |
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Jackie,
If I'm able to, I will watch the documentary. But my point is I think it's a bit myopic and shortsighted to foks primarily upon the artists - even those as accomplished as Def, Rhymes and Kweli - to divine the source, cause and depth of the problem.
Because for the most part, many of the artists are foks who otherwise might be starving, incarcerated or dead, were there no hip-hop industry.
They NOT the ones who own or finance the record labels, they're NOT the one who press and distribute the records, they're not the ones who own/control BET, MTV, VHS, etc.
Would I attempt to make a documentary about hip-hop that focused on what I believe the central issues/problems are? No. But would I help to finance and support someone whom I thought could do a credible job of such. Sure. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |
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I have to give Byron a pat on the back for his courage.
Jackie, I find it refreshing that much of the critique of hip hop more recently seems to be coming from members of its target audience. I'm looking forward to seeing the doc. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8509
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:37 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I should say that I am being presumptuous in that I appear to criticize a program I've yet to actually witness. But I'm responding to what I have observed to be growing pattern (e.g., the bvllshyt Cosby has pulled the last few year, Oprah blaming Black kids for the state of public education, etc.) of Black foks who have power/resources blaming those of us who, in truth, have the LEAST power of shyt they're being blamed for.
As I said, I will watch the documentary. But if it ain't talking about who is actually the money and power BEHIND all the silly bling-blinging and T&A shaking then it's probably a waste of time. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1685
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:42 pm: |
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I cross-posted with your earlier post. I understand your points better now. And I haven't seen it yet either so I have no idea what my final reaction will be. Well, be sure to DVR it or something then we can all discuss with a more informed perspective then! |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 441
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:45 pm: |
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ABM :Because for the most part, many of the artists are foks who otherwise might be starving, incarcerated or dead, were there no hip-hop industry.
No, they can work a 9 to 5 and make ends meet until that "break" happens, and if doesn't then "that's show biz foks". Get real.
Also the documentary goes beyond Rhymes, Def, and Kweli, I meant it's a segment to be paid close attention to. He's not focusing on any particular artist...he focusing on the music and lyrics
Short sighted and myopic ? Once again I give Hurt props for putting his mind to something and doing it. He had a vision and made it happen.
ABM:They NOT the ones who own or finance the record labels, they're NOT the one who press and distribute the records, they're not the ones who own/control BET, MTV, VHS, etc.
Weak arguement Uh, most rappers and hip hop artist do own their own record labels. Many of them are producing other artists now, Jay Z, P-Diddy, NAS, the list goes on. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 442
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:56 pm: |
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Ultimately, it is about money and power...but I think it's short sighted and myopic not to engage in dialogue about the images and messages that are prevalent in music. Be it, heavy metal, punk, rock, etc. Hurt chose Hip Hop. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8513
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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Jackie,
Sorry. But I DON'T see Snoop Dogg and Fitty Cent working a 9-to-5. I can't see THAT shyt with Superman's vision.
Even the ascendent Jay Z has copped to dealing blow before he got on (as did Biggie before he hooked up with then Puffy Daddy). Where would HE be right now sans hip-hop? It DAYAMSURE would NOT be alongside Beyonce.
"Weak arguments"? You OBVIOUSLY don't know how the record business work, babe.
Hell. Any fool can start record label. That ain't shyt to do.
What takes real money and power is to be able to press and distribute your work. And not Jay Z, P-Diddy, NAS or any of the other ones can make the money they make sans being connected to the big White/Asian-own record distributors Sony, BMG, Universal, Vivendi.
How does P-Diddy make his millions selling his (largely crappy) albums if the White owners/officers of Viacom refuse to allow his stuff to be marketed on Viacom's properties MTV, BET, VH1?
What does NAS do if White-owned Clear Channel refuses to allow any of his work to be played on their +1,200 radio stations?
Dialogue is GREAT. I'm all for such. But too often, Black foks do too much talking and not enuff READING. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:09 pm: |
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What about all the chatter about (many of) the hip-hop artists, producers, etc. being on the DL? I wonder if that is going to be addressed. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 443
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:18 pm: |
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ABM: "Sorry. But I DON'T see Snoop Dogg and Fitty Cent working a 9-to-5. I can't see THAT shyt with Superman's vision.
LOL ! When I wrote that I meant a "job" regardless of the hours ABM. So this is the excuse/pass we give black males whom are pursuing a career in music(hip hop, rap) ? "We just can't see it?" Hmmmm....
The great thing about some artists is they'll find a way to get their work out there. What about these underground artists KRS-one, The Visionaries, Immortal Technique, Iyse Lyfe, Black Shakespear, and Michael Franti(he's kinda commericial tho) to name a few. They did it INDEPENDENTLY! They do live concerts, and sell their work on the internet like cd-baby, digstation,etc. They have more control over their profits and their work.
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3696
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:30 pm: |
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Then why did Hurt not focus on the evils of collegiate sports?
(AMEN! There is nothing more mysoginist, racist and violent than college sports--unless it is professional sports.
All this guy got to do is stop watching it. It isn't for him anyway. If he is old enough to be revolted he needs to be listening to something else.
Old mf's don't buy records. They don't go out to dances. They don't go to concerts. Nobody gives a damn what they like or what they don't.
This guy is an idiot. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 444
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:31 pm: |
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Abm and don't think that the traditional way of cd production, distribution, marketing, and movie making for that matter isn't being challenged on all fronts. These traditional houses ARE losing money because of access/utilization of the internet and technology. Something to think about. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8515
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:32 pm: |
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Jackie,
Yes, there are ways one can earn a decent living going a somewhat independent route. A few do especially well. But I wager all of them still are or at least WERE at some point affiliated - directly, or indirect via some intermediary - with one of the majors record companies.
And, understand, most of major concert halls are either owned by the majors or have some DEEP-rooted connections with them (some of those roots go as far back as the turn of the 20th Century).
So very few wealthy musical artists become such WHOLLY independent of those who are behind what we decry.
VERY FEW...
Here's my basic point: Be as critical of Black hip-hop artists/producer as you choose to. But understand you're mostly chiding a slave for harvesting a rooten crop that's been planted/tilled under the specific direction of someone much more powerful than he. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8516
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:38 pm: |
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Jackie,
Yes. The business paradigm of the music industry is changing. The record companies still have enuff cash, resources and physical, sociological and political might to sway things in their favor.
For example, as long as they have most of the cash, they will be able to lure the most talented, most charismatic artists into their fold. And they'll continue to be able to sway the politicians to doctor up laws that benefit them (I know SEVERAL foks who are being sued by the record industry right now for $1,000's because of some sh*t their kids downloaded from the Internet YEARS ago.). |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8517
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:40 pm: |
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Chris: "Old mf's don't buy records. They don't go out to dances. They don't go to concerts. Nobody gives a damn what they like or what they don't."
Right. Really. If you past, say, 27 years old, the music industry could hardly give a dayam what you think of what they do. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 445
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:41 pm: |
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BTW- I LOVE hip hop music and have always supported certain artists. And will continue to do so. The infrastructure of the music industry is changing though... I think we should start taking more of the responsibility of what we assign our names to. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3698
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:48 pm: |
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I think we should start taking more of the responsibility of what we assign our names to.
(How much money do you have to pay somebody who decides to follow this high road?) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7407
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 02:11 pm: |
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Hip-hop and collegiate sports have the same root; the male animal flexing his muscles in his area of expertise, victimizing others in the process. All one has to do is watch the documentary and judge it on its intrinsic message. The idea that what happens in hip-hop has its counterpart in collegiate sports is beside the point. The documentary doesn't contradict this comparison. It ennables it by broaching the subject of male sexism and all of its attendant debasements. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1688
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 02:22 pm: |
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This guy is an idiot.
How so, Chris? And did anything I post or that you read on the website (assuming you clicked over) indicate to you that he is "revolted" by hip hop? Seriously, I guess it doesn't take too much achievement these days for some Black folks to joyously shoot you down... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8519
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 02:41 pm: |
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Yvettep,
Okay. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on Hunt (especially since I've yet to see his work). But I've seen and know enuff about collegiate sports to find it ironic that an ex-jock would choose to take on issues within hip-hop when the very SAME conditions existed within the very system that he as a young man benefited from. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1949
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 04:51 pm: |
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how did the doc. actually turn out? |
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