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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8341
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 09:37 am: | 
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Let's attempt to advance the discussion/debate about Barack Obama's 2008 Presidential candidacy some:
@ WHY would you NOT vote for Obama?
@ WHY would you vote for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Joe Biden, John McCain, Dennis Kucinich, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich or any of the other current or prospective Presidential candidates?
@ What qualities and history must a presidential candidate possess to warrant your vote?
@ And what will be the basis of your determining and ensuring a candidate sincerely possesses such qualities and history? |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3630
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 02:50 pm: |
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Man, I have never seen you and Troy so fired up and BLACK about something.
What brought all this on?
Obama slip you some scratch under the table? |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 194
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 03:51 pm: |
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I can't vote for Obama in the primary because I'm not a registered democrat.
I watched his announcement on C-span yesterday and listened to the calls that came in afterwards. I was surprised that a lot of republicans said they supported him after just hearing him speak. He is a great speaker (as far as tone and his look) but I'm amazed that people are that fickle. His whole ascent is mind-boggling. Of course it has been based largely on one speech given during the DNC so I really shouldn't be surprised.
I was not surprised that an ignorant woman from Alabama called in and said that she didn't trust a muslim as president. She had heard he'd changed his name and was a sonverted muslim from some conservative radio station. It's so easy to mislead ignorant people when your competition's name is Barak Obama. And unfortunately for Obama there are a lot of ignorant people.
This will be an interesting race. I'm not sure who I'll vote for at all. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4407
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 04:37 pm: |
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@ WHY would you NOT vote for Obama?
If he talks about race....I would go out of my way to vote against him, I'd even vote for the rightist wing republican. Some Blacks might be waiting to hear him discuss "Black causes". Understood. But, as far as I'm concerned, he'll be MUCH BETTER OFF by simply including some of the most pressing issues facing WORKING CLASS AMERICA in his speeches.
@ WHY would you vote for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Joe Biden, John McCain, Dennis Kucinich, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich or any of the other current or prospective Presidential candidates?
If the Election were held tomorrow, Edwards is the only one I'd be voting for without thinking twice. The other candidates listed?--I could see me giving John McCain a thought and Mitt Romney a look before voting the next day.
@ What qualities and history must a presidential candidate possess to warrant your vote?
I prefer a pragmatist without a long history in government/politics. I’m looking for accomplishments, expediency, pure logic and zero bureaucracy. I’m willing to compromise, tho, only because I know I‘ll have to.
@ And what will be the basis of your determining and ensuring a candidate sincerely possesses such qualities and history?
Some say politicians are sociopaths. In all seriousness I believe that... So I’m not looking for sincerity, which is ok, because, for as long as I can remember, the country is right where I am. It realizes that a person’s hopes & dreams are shaped by his or her environment... My choice will be limited to the one who figures best that his job and the survival of his party depends solely on his/his party’s ability to deliver what the country wants... Never been more optimistic! |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4408
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 04:48 pm: |
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Clarification:
"...for as long as I can remember, the country is [finally] where I am."
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8345
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 04:51 pm: |
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Dahomeyahosi,
The response to Obama is product of SEVERAL things that include but are NOT limited to his speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention. You should view Obama within the context of what has gone down recently and through out entire history of America.
Over the last 6 years, we've been treated to what appears to be ignorant, lying sock-puppet of a man as our President. Hell. In comparison to George Bush, the eloquent, earnest and SELF-MADE Obama appears dayamnear DIVINE.
Obama ALSO represents a generational turning of the page.
He did NOT come up amongst all the tumult and strife of 1960's America. He doesn't bare all wounds from the Civil Rights, Vietnam War, anarchistic fantasies, etc. Thus he doesn't cause foks to reflexively choose sides of rhetorical/philosophical battles that have been waged for decades.
Obama is sort of a clean canvas upon which many can paint delightful notions of a future of reconciliation and fidelity that many Americans fantasize about (notwithstanding whether they're sincerely work towards such. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8347
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:10 pm: |
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Tonya: "If he talks about race....I would go out of my way to vote against him, I'd even vote for the rightist wing republican."
This is FOLLY. How on GOD's good earth can you expect Obama to AVOID discussiong race when he'll likely be asked a MILLION questions about such during the course of his campaign?
Tonya: "If the Election were held tomorrow, Edwards is the only one I'd be voting for without thinking twice. The other candidates listed?--"
What has Edwards DONE - and note, I'm NOT talking about SAID - that warrants such special consideration?
Tonya: "I prefer a pragmatist without a long history in government/politics. I’m looking for accomplishments, expediency, pure logic and zero bureaucracy."
Too vague to comment much here, except to say you're REALLY dealing in Richardo Montebaun's Fantasy Island if you expect to elect someone president who operates in a realm of "...pure logic and zero bureaucracy". HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Tonya: "My choice will be limited to the one who figures best that his job and the survival of his party depends solely on his/his party’s ability to deliver what the country wants."
Funny. While Obama announced his presidential candidacy yesterday (and during his 2004 Democratic Convention speech), he clearly MINIMIZED the importance of political parties, Red State, Blue State campaigning, conservative/liberal politicking, etc. And I think that THAT'S one of the MAIN reasons why Obama will be getting MY vote. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4409
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:36 pm: |
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quote:Funny. While Obama announced his presidential candidacy yesterday (and during his 2004 Democratic Convention speech), he clearly MINIMIZED the importance of political parties, Red State, Blue State campaigning, conservative/liberal politicking, etc. And I think that THAT'S one of the MAIN reasons why Obama will be getting MY vote.
I'll tell what’s funny, nigga. You started this TRAP asking people who/what/why they're voting for. And then no more than 3 minutes later you unmask your true intentions: TELLING us who YOU want us to VOTE FOR!!
Funny part??
...I was stupid enough to take the bait!
quote:What has Edwards DONE
Not much....
Hasn't been in politics that long. Precisely what I like about what he's DONE.
quote:you're REALLY dealing in Richardo Montebaun's Fantasy Land if you expect to elect someone president who operates in a realm of "...pure logic and zero bureaucracy". HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Chose to edit my final remark, huh? (LOL!!)
Tonya said: I’m willing to compromise, tho, only because I know I‘ll have to.
All this for a vote for Obama, fucking jeez man! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8349
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:44 pm: |
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Tonya,
I make NO pretense or secret about my intention to very STRONGLY argue on behalf of a Barack Obama presidency. Yes. Thus far, I believe Obama is the most qualified of all the current crop of candidates to lead this nation.
Now. Could I change my mind about that? Sure. And if you can proffer some very effective, credible rebuttals then please, by ALL means, PRESENT them. Though, note I say credible rebuttals.
Btw: WHY the hell you're supporting Edwards? 'Cause you think he's a cute blond? |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4410
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:48 pm: |
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Btw..
quote:Too vague to comment much here...
Which part did you find "too vague" for your vague question? I'll gladly explain. |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 195
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:56 pm: |
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ABM you said: Obama is sort of a clean canvas upon which many can paint delightful notions of a future of reconciliation and fidelity that many Americans fantasize about (notwithstanding whether they're sincerely work towards such.
This is the reason why I don't understand the man's appeal. Other than being handsome and speaking well most people don't know where he stands on the issues. Right now he is little more than a blank canvas and he has to steer clear of concrete policies to maintain that facade, which is practically impossible. Many of the people who called in on c-span were basing their decision to support him on his declaration speech which was a vague embrace of liberal ideas but specific on only one thing - getting out of Iraq. They don't know about his 2 books and I think his past honesty in them will severely damage him.
I am most concerned about the environment and for that reason I'm hoping Al Gore will run. I don't think anyone would question his sincerity on this issue. If he doesn't run, I am completely undecided. Right now Obama appeals to me because he had the good sense to be against the war from the beginning. However he is also for big government, which I am against. If he wins the democratic primary I'd certainly vote for him over Guiliani or McCain. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4412
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 05:57 pm: |
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quote:Btw: WHY the hell you're supporting Edwards? 'Cause you think he's a cute blond?
Think I'm falling victim to you’re BLATANT sexism??? Well, Kinda! (LOL!!) That’s NOT why I’m voting for him though. We’ve been over this before. He’s the only one who had to balls to raise certain issues when they weren’t popular. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4413
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:30 pm: |
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Abm,
Sorry I skimmed through this.
quote:Tonya, I make NO pretense or secret about my intention to very STRONGLY argue on behalf of a Barack Obama presidency. Yes. Thus far, I believe Obama is the most qualified of all the current crop of candidates to lead this nation.
Now. Could I change my mind about that? Sure. And if you can proffer some very effective, credible rebuttals then please, by ALL means, PRESENT them. Though, note I say credible rebuttals.
I was joking. Honestly, I didn't mean for you to take it that way. You have every right to wanna vote for Obama, you don't need anybody's blessings just like nobody needs yours (hugs). That's one of the reasons I'm not interested in disputing your choice. The other reason is I have no idea what issues you hold dear. You're not a loud mouth like me; you never disclosed that info, none that I'm aware of. So how can I question why you feel so strongly about Obama?? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8350
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:43 pm: |
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Dahomeyahosi,
Well. First, I think it's more than just Barack looks and delivery. I mean, he's certainly not the first handsome/eloquent brotha on the political scene.
Hell. Edward's probably as goodlooking as Obama. And he's fully WHITE.
As I said before, part of the fervor over Obama stems from what he does NOT appear to be.
For example, when the current president was elected he was lauded as having the most experienced/accomplished presidential staff in American history (his father's a former president & former Sec of State James Baker as advisor, Dick Cheney as VP, Colin Powell as Sec. of State, Dick Rumsfeld as Sec of Defense, Condi Rice as National Security Advisor, etc.). ALL that braintrust, and we STILL get 911, the PATRIOT ACT, the Iraq War, Abu Ghrab and Guantanamo Bay tortures, an outing of a undercover CIA agent, gay pornstars running loose in the White House, KATRINA, crappy economy, etc.
Hell. After all THAT, LOT'S of foks might conclude if THAT'S what's some frickin' EXPERIENCE is suppose to get for us, maybe the LESS experience the next guy has, the BETTER.
Tonya,
I was trying to get you to be more specific about who you would support. I mean, hell, the description you provided can apply to a decent middle manager of a Tool & Die plant.
Btw: What's that you said about liking to raise Edward's balls? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8351
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:49 pm: |
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Tonya,
This is my HONEST opinion. I think we NEED for Barack Obama to be elected President of the United States. I really do. I think the effects of that could have a transformative effect on LOTS of things, some of which we discuss HERE.
For example: What effect do you think it might have on the self-esteem of MANY Black WOMEN and GIRLS to see a Black female who looks like Michelle Obama as First Lady? |
Savant
Regular Poster
Username: Savant
Post Number: 152
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:05 pm: |
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Barack and Michelle will be on 60 Minutes tonight on CBS at 7pm. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:28 pm: |
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I think part of the problem is, and this is partially coming from viewing the state of black america, many black folk, or should I say black Americans, can only relate to the civil rights folk or those from the church. In other words, being "articulate," that is contradistinction from that southern baptist or black preacherly tradition, for some black people is equivalent to not being black. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4414
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:40 pm: |
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quote:Tonya, This is my HONEST opinion. I think we NEED for Barack Obama to be elected President of the United States. I really do. I think the effects of that could have a transformative effect on LOTS of things, some of which we discuss HERE.
For example: What effect do you think it might have on the self-esteem of MANY Black WOMEN and GIRLS to see a Black female who looks like Michelle Obama as First Lady?
If this is honestly how you feel, Abm, it's a whole ‘nother debate. Add that to my list of reasons why I won't dispute your choice.
Thanks a million Savant! I caught part of it.  |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 729
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:04 am: |
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i shall vote for obama, but i wish he kinda' joined someone else's ticket and started off as a vice president first, that way he could have gotten more money and more press without getting the b.s. that he is about to have hurled at him. i see where austrailia's president/prime minister or whatever he is has already had the audacity to say something about obama ... but then again everyone who rode george bush's nutts are losing their jobs in their countries like tony blair. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 783
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:58 am: |
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Yukio --
"In other words, being "articulate," that is contradistinction from that southern baptist or black preacherly tradition, for some black people is equivalent to not being black."
The "some" black people are the truly ignorant and under/uneducated. In today's world, there is absolutely no excuse for championing ignorance and "niggerism" over competence and priceless articulation - the conveyance of thought and perception. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1648
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 09:18 am: |
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It's gonna be an exciting campaign! Bring it on! LOL! http://www.barackobama.com/
 |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3643
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:17 am: |
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Actually this discussion is ridiculous. None of us will have the opportunity to vote for Obama.
Why wouldn't I vote for him? Same reason I wouldn't vote for any of the current slate. Because he owes everything to white folks and nothing to me. He ain't my candidate. He ain't promising to do nothing for me.
And he would be a fool to do so unless I donated $50,000 or more to his campaign.
The one who I would support is the one who would promise to make me rich. None of them will do that.
May the best one win. I have lived through Nixon, Reagan, Two Bushes, Bubba Clinton--I will live through whoever they put up. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1756
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 04:30 pm: |
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The "some" black people are the truly ignorant and under/uneducated. In today's world, there is absolutely no excuse for championing ignorance and "niggerism" over competence and priceless articulation - the conveyance of thought and perception.
I wouldn't go that far. I was more or less, for example, comparing the rhetoric of an Al Sharpton to harvard law prof. Ogletree. I would not at all describe Sharpton's rhetoric as "niggerism," but it is, for the most part, more digestible for the majority of us than what Ogletree has to offer. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:22 pm: |
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"Why wouldn't I vote for him? Same reason I wouldn't vote for any of the current slate. Because he owes everything to white folks and nothing to me. He ain't my candidate. He ain't promising to do nothing for me."
Ok. So what exactly would he have to promise and do to get your consideration? And exactly why are you so vehemently opposed to this man? Details please....
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1803
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:24 pm: |
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"The "some" black people are the truly ignorant and under/uneducated. In today's world, there is absolutely no excuse for championing ignorance and "niggerism" over competence and priceless articulation - the conveyance of thought and perception."
Excellent point. Thank you Yukio. I agree 100%.
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 531
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:03 pm: |
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I'm voting for Obama because it is Black -- full stop end of story.
ABM's point: I think the effects of that could have a transformative effect on LOTS of things, some of which we discuss HERE.
For example: What effect do you think it might have on the self-esteem of MANY Black WOMEN and GIRLS to see a Black female who looks like Michelle Obama as First Lady?
Image that...
Chris do you seriously think the Obamam camp believes I exhert enough influence, in the Black community, to warrant paying me money. I wish he would pay me.
I have to give it to Black people though, so enlightened, so fair, and open minded, so willing weight the evidence to ensure they are vote for the "best man".
So noble...
Look you all can do what you want vote another white guy or Hillary into the "White" house. And settle for the Black president on 24 -- which I'm sure most of us know more about anyway. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1766
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:26 pm: |
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Ntfs: No, you agree with Nels, Sir. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1804
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:02 pm: |
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"Ntfs: No, you agree with Nels, Sir."
Sorry...sorry....sorry. I skimmed through the thread and when I read your post, I thought that was part of your statement. My bad. Thanks Nels. What I said still stands.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4426
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
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quote:I have to give it to Black people though, so enlightened, so fair, and open minded, so willing weight the evidence to ensure they are vote for the "best man".
So noble…
You say that like Black people are waiting for you to give it to them and like your idea of the best man is theirs, when most likely it's not and most definitely they are not. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4430
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 02:02 am: |
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Boy, Abm hasn't posted all day. He must be still mad at me (teehee).
Listen, Abm, I know you want to know WHY I'm voting for so and so--but the truth of the matter is NOBODY knows who they are voting for YET; and if they do, they should not be voting, I mean really. Sorry I gave you a hard time tho. I was just having a little fun - forgive me. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8358
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 07:27 am: |
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Chris,
By the criteria you describe, MOST people should never concern ourselves with voting at ALL.
Tonya,
Not mad at you, girl. You ain't done anything to warrant that. Just busy with other things yesterday.
But I am still waiting for you (and others) to present a LEGITIMATE reason for NOT voting for Obama.
*Jeopardythememusic* |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4433
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:24 am: |
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Abm,
quote:Not mad at you, girl. You ain't done anything to warrant that. Just busy with other things yesterday.
Gotchu!
quote:But I am still waiting for you (and others) to present a LEGITIMATE reason for NOT voting for Obama.
Ummmm. Your mind shouldn't be made up yet (???).
Other than that, I can't give you a reason for why you shouldn't vote for him.
I’ve said before, he seems too conservative for my taste and I’ve implied many times that I think he’s a Blk Con. trying to pass himself off as something else. And if I’m right (I was serious about this part) he probably shouldn't talk about race, mho. Tho it won’t work, we have at least a whole year to figure him out. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8360
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:31 am: |
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Tonya,
Saying he "seem too conservative" belies his actual RECORD as a citizen and legislator.
He was OPPOSED to our invading Iraq.
He has proposed pulling out troops out of Iraq by March 2008. That is by no stretch of the imagination conservative.
He's staunchly pro-choice.
He voted AGAINST Bush's very conservative Supreme Court appointment.
There just isn't much about his actual RECORD that asserts his being conservative. If anything, what will doom Barack Obama's candidacy is foks being suspicious of how LIBERAL he's been. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4434
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:45 am: |
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Your editing is off the hook, babe. I said "too conservative for my taste". Most "Blk Con"'s, i.e. Black Conservatives, are.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8361
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:49 am: |
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Tonya,
What about Obama's actual RECORD would fall within YOUR "too conservative" criteria? |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4436
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:13 pm: |
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Abm, who said I know anything about his record? ...I know him as a rock star. And as far as I know, Blk Con. or not, he hasn't voted anything "Black," or has he? (Btw, you think you can get me an autograph the next time he swings by your neighborhood?)
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4437
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:16 pm: |
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My bad: "on anything 'Black'" |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8362
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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Tonya,
I'll see what I can do. But if I manage to get it, it'll COST you.
*evilsnicker* |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1653
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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he hasn't voted anything "Black," or has he?
Tonya, please do take a look at his record: I think you'll like (or at least, not hate LOL) what you see. For example:
There is no more fundamental American right than the right to vote. Before the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act, barriers such as literacy tests, poll taxes and property requirements disenfranchised many Americans, especially minorities. More than 40 years later, there are still numerous obstacles to ensuring that every citizen has the ability to vote. A recent study discovered numerous organized efforts to intimidate and mislead voters and suppress voter turnout in minority communities.
Few states have enacted clear and effective prohibitions against these abuses. Senator Obama introduced the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act to enable investigations into deceptive practices. It establishes significant harsh penalties for those who have engaged in fraud and it provides voters who have been misinformed with accurate and full information so they can vote. Senator Obama also worked with civil rights leaders in the House of Representatives to help secure the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act.
Or this:
Promoting Responsible Fatherhood
Since 1960, the number of American children without fathers has quadrupled, from 6 million to more than 24 million. A healthy relationship between children and their fathers is important to good development. Children without fathers in their lives are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of school, and 20 times more likely to end up in prison. Senator Obama introduced the Responsible Fatherhood and Healthy Families Act with Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN) to remove some of the government penalties on married families and support fathers already trying to do the right thing, while also cracking down on men trying to avoid their parental responsibilities. The bill provides fathers with an expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. It also would increase child support enforcement and strengthen domestic violence prevention services.
And frequently in speeches where he could choose to toe the line and go along to get along, he often inserts a "BUT" that has caused some discomfort in making folks face facts. One example I can think of is when he was expected to extol Lincoln but instead talked about unfinished business. Sorry for my vagueness: I can't think of the exact quote or immediately find a reference. But it got a lot of press at the time, including some commentators worrying that he may come off as too much of an "angry/ingrateful Black man." One speech I did find that is along these lines is one he gave on some occassion commemorating RFK:
...We know this as the Ownership Society. But in our past there has been another term for it “ Social Darwinism“ every man or women for him or herself. It allows us to say to those whose health care or tuition may rise faster than they can afford “ tough luck." It allows us to say to the child who was born into poverty “ pull yourself up by your bootstraps." It let's us say to the workers who lose their job when the factory shuts down “ you're on your own."
But there is a problem. It won't work. It ignores our history. Yes, our greatness as a nation has depended on individual initiative, on a belief in the free market. But it has also depended on our sense of mutual regard for each other, the idea that everybody has a stake in the country, that we're all in it together and everybody's got a shot at opportunity.
Robert Kennedy reminded us of this. He reminds us still. He reminds us that we don't need to wait for a hurricane to know that Third World living conditions in the middle of an American city make us all poorer. We don't need to wait for the 3000th death of someone else's child in Iraq to make us realize that a war without an exit strategy puts all of our families in jeopardy. We don't have to accept the diminishment of the American Dream in this country now, or ever...
You can find all of this--and more--on the website I posted earlier. (And no, I am not his campaign manager LOL!)
Now, these types of things may not be "Black enough" for you all. But I find it hard to believe that after actually investigating what he has said, voted for (and against), and lobbied for (and against) that he is "conservative" by today's standards. If they're still "too conservative" for you, then you'll have a verrrrry long wait for more progressiveness from any viable candidate.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4439
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:31 pm: |
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Abm,
"*evilsnicker*"
Now stopppp. On national issues he's impressive. His stance on Iraq--since the very begging--has been commendable, and even though he didn't have to vote on it, he still gets lots of credit because he did speak out. And his attempts to place himself to the left of Hillary---(which is RIGHT UP my alley)---make him appealing as a candidate. So don't get me wrong, he has some good qualities.
Now. You gotta take that EVILsnicker back! See? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8364
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:37 pm: |
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Tonya,
Nope. Ain't gotta or gonna!
Hahahahaha!!! |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4440
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:39 pm: |
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Thanks Yvette. He doesn't have to be an "angry/ingrateful Black man" either, btw...ROTFLMBAO!!!! (Too funny!!) I'll settle for a good candidate, that's good enough. And thanks.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4441
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 02:15 pm: |
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And another thing guys, Yvette you too, a "conservative" and a "Black conservative" aren't necessarily the same to me. When I use the term "Black Conservative" or when I say "too conservative," I'm referring to his ideology as a Blk Con., assuming he is one. Also, a conservative can be Black or white. Not so for "a Black conservative." And a Black conservative is more likely to involve himself in Black politics, which could be a concern to a Black liberal. I figured you guys knew all this (???) but there seem to be a bit of a misunderstanding. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8365
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:54 pm: |
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Tonya,
What you don't seem to get is that anyone who's observed Obama's record and rhetoric would NOT confuse him with ANY for of conservative, Black or otherwise. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4445
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 06:14 pm: |
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Abm, I think I misunderstood you when you asked me to recite his "actual RECORD". I don’t know his complete record from 1996 when he served the state, no, but I have a very good sense of his short history in the US senate therefore I'm good on the national issues re: Obama, so please spare me; I've had more than I can stand, thank you. His rhetoric, on the stump, however, is the thing I'm still looking out for (closely)... And so perhaps you’re right! |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4446
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 06:25 pm: |
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...And before you ask, I get The New York Times delivered to me everyday... I'm cool on that front too, thanks!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8369
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
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Tonya,
Actually, I get the impression you read a lot.
Comprehension, however, may be another matter altogether. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1775
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 12:10 am: |
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hey be nice! |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4448
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 01:56 am: |
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Funny you said that, Abm, please read my post again.
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/179/23084.html?1171429820#POST8787 3
Why would his record be conservative when this is what I said?
I think he’s a Blk Con. trying to pass himself off as something else.
Think about it.
And I even said this to you.
When I use the term "Black Conservative" or when I say "too conservative," I'm referring to his ideology as a Blk Con., assuming he is one.
What's up? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 02:57 am: |
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Nice post Yukio. Your point was well made.
"What you don't seem to get is that anyone who's observed Obama's record and rhetoric would NOT confuse him with ANY for of conservative, Black or otherwise."
You can believe that! I talked about Obama to a good friend of mine in Denver today and she was totally flabbergasted by the cynicism and unwarranted carping of this black man by other blacks. I look at Obama as I do every other presidential candidate. I examine and weigh their positions and advocacy against my own. I ask myself,"Does he/she represent my interests or share my concerns?" I don't labor over irrelevant cynical partisan issues and petty racial conjecture that have no real meaning. Would I vote for him? Of course if he reflects the willingness to address issues that I am concerned about. Do I think he has a real chance of being elected? No. Not really. I am going to rake him over the hot coals with ridiculous racial issues? No. There are enough whites (and blacks) who are doing that. No need for me to pile on.
You are correct ABM. This black man is not in the same conservative mode as a Ward Connerly, Alphonso Jackson, Condoleezza Rice, LaShawn Barber, Thomas Sowell or a Larry Elder. These Negroes are unrepentant, unflinching, very open and very comfortable with their association and token acceptance with white paleoconservatives. Obama is not. And any suggestion that he is a stealth neo-Negro con belongs in the tar pit of calculated nefarious besmirchment.
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