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     Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 465 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: |
Kathleen Neal Cleaver (1945-) Educator, writer, lawyer, activist Although Kathleen Neal Cleaver first came to the attention of the public because of her relationship with Eldridge Cleaver and the Black Panther Party, she has many accomplishments outside of her relationship with Cleaver for which she is well known. She is widely viewed as a gifted lawyer and educator who speaks out ardently against racism. She is greatly in demand as a lecturer and has published numerous articles in newspapers and magazines. Born on May 13, 1945, in Dallas, Texas, Cleaver was the first child of Ernest Neal and Juette Johnson Neal. Her father was at that time a sociology professor at Wiley College in Marshall, Texas. Her mother held a master's degree in mathematics. Shortly after Cleaver's birth, Ernest Neal accepted a position as director of the Rural Life Council of Tuskegee Institute in Alabama. After six years teaching sociology and designing community development projects, Ernest Neal joined the Foreign Service and moved the family abroad. The Neals would spend the next years in such locations as India, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and the Philippines. While her parents remained in West Africa, Cleaver returned to the United States and enrolled in the George School, a Quaker boarding school near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. There she completed high school in 1963, graduating with honors. Cleaver began her college education at Oberlin College in Ohio and later transferred to prestigious Barnard College in New York. In 1966, she left college to work in the New York office of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). Cleaver's January 1967 arrival at SNCC's Atlanta, Georgia, headquarters set off a series of life-altering events. As secretary of SNCC's campus program, she assisted in organizing a black student conference at Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee. One of the attendees at the March conference was the minister of information for the Black Panther Party (the Party), Eldridge Cleaver. Eldridge Cleaver's intense oratory about black nationalism and revolution captivated Kathleen Neal Cleaver. Attracted by the Party's more radical approach to social change, she left SNCC and joined the Black Panther Party and Eldridge Cleaver in San Francisco in November 1967. The couple was married on December 27, 1967. Speaks for Black Panther Party Kathleen Neal Cleaver's impact on the Party was immediate. As the national communications secretary she became the first female member of the Party's decision-making body, the Central Committee. In that role, she served as the Party's spokesperson and press secretary, delivering speeches across the country. In 1968, she organized the national campaign to free the Party's jailed minister of defense, Huey Newton. In that same year she ran unsuccessfully for the California state assembly on the ticket of the Peace and Freedom party. The Black Panther Party also impacted Kathleen Neal Cleaver's private life. On January 16, 1968, the eve of a scheduled Panther rally, the Cleavers' apartment was raided by the San Francisco Tactical Squad, who claimed to have been informed about a cache of guns and ammunition. On April 6 of that year, Eldridge Cleaver was wounded in a "shoot-out" between several Panthers and the San Francisco police; only one of the Panthers was armed. As a result of the confrontation, Eldridge Cleaver was charged with parole violationsóhe had been on parole since November 1966 for a 1958 conviction for assault with intent to killóand scheduled to report to the parole board to be returned to prison on November 27, 1968. Unwilling to face another term of incarceration, Cleaver left the country on November 26, leaving his wife behind, and arrived by a rather circuitous route in Cuba on Christmas day, 1968. Eldridge Cleaver lived under guard in Havana, Cuba, for seven months waiting for Cuban authorities to fulfill promises to bring over his wife and other members of the Party. By summer 1969, a mutual distrust had developed between the Cubans and Cleaver. Additionally, the press had discovered his whereabouts and sought interviews. The combined situations served as a catalyst for the Cubans to request that Kathleen and Eldridge Cleaver meet elsewhere. The Cleavers were reunited in Algiers, Algeria, in July 1969. Their son, Maceo, named for the black Cuban general Antonio Maceo, was born on July 29. One year later, Kathleen gave birth to their second child, Jojuyounghi (Korean for young heroine), while the couple and other members of the Party were in North Korea. After a disagreement between Huey Newton and Eldridge Cleaver during a live talk show on February 26, 1971 (Cleaver spoke long distance from Algiers), the International Branch of the Black Panther Party was expelled from the Party. The Cleavers and the former international members formed the Revolutionary People's Communication Network (the Network). Kathleen Neal Cleaver was again called on to use her public relations talents to promote the organization. In the fall of 1971, Kathleen Neal Cleaver and the children returned to the United States to set up a headquarters for the new organization in New York. With the children in the care of her mother, she traveled the country explaining the position of the Network. She returned to Algiers in the spring of 1972. The government of Algeria was becoming increasingly unhappy with Eldridge Cleaver and the Party remnant. Eldridge Cleaver had become disillusioned with the government's decision to give back money obtained by hijackers and with the move to align more closely with the United States. As relations cooled and financial support from the Algerian government, other countries, and individuals ceased, the group sought another location. Without a valid passport, Eldridge Cleaver had to leave Algiers secretly. His rendezvous with his wife took place in Paris, France, in January 1973. While living underground in Paris, Eldridge Cleaver made several unsuccessful appeals for asylum. In the fall of 1973, Kathleen Neal Cleaver returned to the United States to try to arrange her husband's return as a parolee on bail and to raise a defense fund to cover legal fees. By 1974, the French government, under the direct influence of French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, granted legal residency to the Cleavers and the family was reunited in Paris. During the year in Paris, Eldridge Cleaver became increasingly unhappy with his life as an expatriate and finally decided to return to the United States. On November 15, 1975, the Cleaver children were sent to Pasadena, California, to stay with their paternal grandmother. Eldridge Cleaver arrived in New York on November 18 and was immediately jailed. Having stayed on in Paris to conclude matters, Kathleen Neal Cleaver returned to the United States in late 1975 and began to work full time on the Eldridge Cleaver Defense Fund. Eldridge was finally freed on bail on August 13, 1976. The family was reunited in Los Angeles on August 16. Eldridge Cleaver's legal situation was finally settled in 1980 when he agreed to plead guilty to three counts of assault in return for having the charge of attempted murder dropped. Once her husband's legal problems were resolved, Kathleen Neal Cleaver returned to college. In August 1981, having received a full scholarship to Yale University, she moved the children to New Haven, Connecticut, leaving Eldridge in California. She graduated in 1983, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, with a bachelor of arts degree in history. Becomes Lawyer and Educator In 1987, Kathleen Neal Cleaver divorced Eldridge Cleaver. After receiving her law degree in June 1988 from Yale Law School, she joined the New York City law firm of Cravath, Swaine and Moore. In 1991, she accepted a position as a law clerk in the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In 1992, Cleaver joined the faculty of Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, where she teaches law. Of her experiences with the Black Panther Party, Cleaver told the New York Times Magazine, "It was thrilling to be able to challenge the circumstances in which blacks were confined; to mobilize and raise consciousness, to change the way people saw themselves, blacks could express themselves." Cleaver continues to have a very active life. As an advocate for the elimination of racism from our culture, she has published articles in magazines and newspapers since 1968 and is much in demand on the lecture circuit. She has also been featured in a number of film documentaries. | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 466 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kathleen Cleaver remains very active! May 13 Kathleen Cleaver *Kathleen Cleaver was born on this date in 1945. She is an African-American educator, lawyer, writer, and activist. She has spent most of her life participating in the human rights struggle. From Dallas Texas, Kathleen Neal Cleaver father was a sociology professor at Wiley College and her mother held a degree in Mathematics. With her fathers work the family spent much her early years abroad in Liberia, the Philippines, and Sierra Leone. Cleaver completed H.S. at the Georgia School in Philadelphia in 1963. As a college sophomore, Cleaver dropped out of Barnard College in 1966 to work full-time with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee where she served in the Campus Program. From 1967 to 1971, Cleaver was the communications secretary of the Black Panther Party, the first woman member of their Central Committee. She married Eldridge Cleaver in 1967. After sharing years of exile with her former husband, she returned to the United States in late 1975. She graduated summa cum laude with a B.A. in history from Yale College in 1984, and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa. After receiving a J.D. from Yale Law School in 1989, Cleaver became an associate at the New York law firm of Cravath, Swain and Moore. Afterwards, she served as a clerk for the late Judge A. Leon Higginbotham of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. While an assistant professor of law at Emory University, she served on the Georgia's Supreme Court Commission on Racial and Ethnic Bias in the Courts and became a board member of the Atlanta-based Southern Center for Human Rights. She has devoted many years to the defense of Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt, a former Black Panther Party leader who won his habeas corps petition in 1997 after spending 27 years in prison for a murder he did not commit. Cleaver has been a visiting faculty member at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York City, the Graduate School of Yale College and Sarah Lawrence College, where she was the Joanne Woodward Professor of Public Policy during 1999. She has taught legal ethics, litigation, torts, a legal history seminar entitled "The American Law of Slavery and Anti-Slavery," and a course on Women in the Black Freedom Movement. Currently, she is a Senior Research Associate at the Yale Law School and executive producer of the International Black Panther Film Festival. Cleaver has won fellowships at the Bunting Institute of Radcliffe College, the W.E.B. DuBois institute of Harvard University and the Center for Historical Analysis at Rutgers University. The Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture and the Center for Scholars and Writers of the New York Public Library also gave her fellowships to complete the book of memoirs that she is working on, Memoirs of Love and War. Her writing has appeared in many magazines and newspapers, including Ramparts, The Black Panther, The Village Voice, The Boston Globe and Transition. She has contributed essays to several books, including Critical Race Feminism, Critical White Studies: Looking Behind the Mirror, The Promise of Multiculturalism: Education and Autonomy in the 21st Century: A New Political Science Reader and The Black Panther Party Reconsidered. Cleaver has co-edited a collection of essays entitled Liberation, Imagination and the Black Panther Party (Routledge, 2001). Reference: The Book of African-American Women 150 Crusaders, Creators, and Uplifters by Tonya Bolden Adams Media ISBN 1-58062-928-8 | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1780 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
Why doesn't this surprise me? "Kathleen Neal Cleaver's impact on the Party was immediate. As the national communications secretary she became the first female member of the Party's decision-making body, the Central Committee." With all of the black women in the Black Panther movement, this was the first woman who wanted to speak out? Or was this the first one they would listen to? Again, as I said before, two choices: a random white woman, or the black people's queen. I don't question her past or her motives or anything....but I do wonder why, with all the women in the panther movement, this one was the one chosen to represent them in public? And I can understand why any klansmen would laugh out loud at the irony: "This big, bad, group of black men who are talking about fighting us...sends a little blue eyed woman as their spokesperson." That is funny! | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1088 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
ARE YOU MARRIED RENATA? I THINK I WANT TO MARRY YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 468 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
The fact she is black and blue eyed bothers you..? That's worrisome as we have many black blue eyed folks that care about us. So your saying if your not blue-black you cant represent black folks.. LiLi cornfused | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1782 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
What I'm saying is that there were MANY black women who could represent them. It just seems odd to me that a big group of BIG BLACK MEN would send out the whitest looking woman to represent them. HECK, ONE OF THEM could have been manly enough and Black enough to really PUT SOME FEAR into the majority. What I think is that they sent someone who wasn't THREATENING LOOKING ENOUGH. Do you really think it registered to white people that black people were a FORCE.....when they noticed that those doing the speaking and those in DECISION MAKING capacity looked MORE LIKE THEM than us? And keep in mind that people who look like her and will say they're black are VERY FEW, especially in the 60's. So, again, of ALL THE BIG BAD BLACK PANTHER MEMBERS, MOST OF THEM MEN, they send a DECISION MAKING little white skinned blue-eyed woman out to do the fighting and arguing for them? If nothing else, they should have considered what this made of their IMAGE as the BIG BAD MEN they THOUGHT they were. Really, a BIG BAD BLACK MAN who has a little white skinned blue eyed woman speak FOR HIM.....IS HARDLY A THREAT. LOL...Serena, I've been married for 8 years, honey! | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1089 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
Lili why are confused? Let me "break it down" to you. There is no such thing as a sub-saharan African with blonde hair and blue-eyes. The "Black" ppl that you mentioned with blue-eyes are not Black. They are MIXED!! These are a mixed race ppl!!! There are alot of Whites, Asians, Indians, and White Hispanics who love and care about Black ppl who would die for a Black person!! But that does not make them BLACK!!! Black blood makes you Black!! Black features make you BLACK!!! End of Story!!! | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4245 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Here is my answer to this whole post: http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/179/21473.html?1169414637 | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4246 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
THANK YOU SERENA, because that really is true what you wrote. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1783 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
That's one thing you have to give white men. When they want POWER, they come out and speak for themselve....they wouldn't DARE send out a woman with skin dark enough that she looks Mexican to speak FOR THEM. | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1090 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
Example: Robert DeNiro, Brad Pitt, and Colin Ferrell, and Bill Mahr may love ppl. And may want to screw Black women they can get there hands on! Hell they may love Black women moreso than even than your average Black man does. However, no one will argue that these men are BLACK!! Just because they might like Black coochie like Kathleen Cleaver loved Black dick does not make these ppl Black. Simply Put!! I never considered Huey Newton who was the founder of the Black Panther party Black!! He was a mixed race man also. And thats why these movements were a JOKE!! Because you have mullattos, Quadroons, and Octoroons leading these organization. Just like the NAACP today has a mullatto president who is incidentally married to a white women. And these movements will always be a joke until "authentically" Black ppl like your Denzels, Nia's, and Gabrielle Union's take control of these organizations. And just like the mullattos in the old days used to have paper bag parties, and would not allow anybody who was "darker than a paper bag" into their organizations darker skinned Blacks should do the same. | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 471 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
I have one thing to say: Start your own movement LiLi | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6849 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I'm with you, Li-Li. A movement needs to be grounded in common sense and common goals against a common threat. Not something that is divisive and vindictive and ineffective because it's counterproductive and more interested in appearances than in strategy. There have always been people who have black blood but who look white who waaaaay back in the day were known as "voluntary negros" because they choose to aligne themselves with their black heritage rather than their white. Back in the militant 60s, Kathleen Cleaver with her pale skin and hugh bushy Afro made a statement and an impact. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1784 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yeah, Serena, we should get started on that, I really wouldn't mind ......I would say Kola is doing her best by herself. | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 472 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Umm do you mind if I send Ms Cleaver your comments and lets hear what she thinks about your saying because her skin color isnt black enough for YOU she is not black. LiLi | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 473 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Thank you Ms Cynique LiLi | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1785 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
That statement was....if this is the BEST BLACK PERSON you have to speak for you, you people are NO THREAT. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1786 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
go ahead...she can email me at mysisters_keeper@yahoo.com, and you can also tell her that those BIG BAD BLACK MEN who had to stand behind her while she spoke for them couldn't have been too big or bad if they couldn't speak for themselves. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6850 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
And if what you say about the way you look is true, Renata, how the hell can you complain about Kathleen Cleaver - unless of course you're lying about your appearance. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1787 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
I'm glad you brought that up. Whenever Kola or Tonya talk about what it's like to be dark skinned and the troubles they've encountered because of it, I don't say anything because looking as I do, I can't SPEAK FOR THEM. How the hell can I say they're lying, when I don't have to live their experience? And I don't even look white, but yellow. I've been mistaken for Malaysian, Somali, South African, Panamanian, Brazilian, and mixed, but NEVER white. But seriously, the actress COURTNEY COX (who I think is quite pretty) would have been asked to leave a Jim Crow restaurant before this lady would have been. She's a white woman with DARKER SKIN, HAIR, AND EYES. I just think it made the BPM look like a JOKE to be a group of BIG BLACK MEN with lots of women in their group and they put the WHITEST face among them (whiter than many WHITE PEOPLE) as the FACE OF THE BLACK MOVEMENT. My ex white and Jewish boyfriend with out ONE drop of black blood....looked blacker than this woman. And she represents the BLACK movement? NO..... what she represented was BLACK PROGRESS. This is the MESSAGE that was sent: THIS IS THE BEST SPEAKER WE HAVE, MOST ELOQUENT, MOST EDUCATED.....and she CLEARLY DIDN'T GET THAT FROM US BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LOOK BLACK WERE SMART ENOUGH TO FILL THAT TASK. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1788 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
I'm going back to ignore mode. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1789 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
Another message I think they were sending was, "please accept us, LOOK, we look like you." What they should have done was put a dark skinned MAN as the spokesperson, so they could send the message, "we don't look anything like you, and we STILL demand respect." Also, a man as a spokesperson would have sent the message that MEN still call the shots in the black community. This was right out of the 50's when mostly men still ran white households. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1598 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Cynique, are you implying that only darkskin women would have a problem with a person who looks like Kathleen as a leader for Black people?? | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 475 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
That would be funny if it wasnt so silly LiLi who lived through that movement and had no issues with Kathleen | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1790 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
As they staged it, they set up black men to look like nothing but pussies. Can't speak for himself, and the best speaker he can find clearly has more of the enemy's blood than his own. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1599 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Is Kathleen biracial?? She looks completely White. | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1094 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Shes obviously Bi-racial. Both of her parents where probably mixed. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1791 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
And consider, we're not talking about 07. We're talking about the 60's and the IMAGE that was sent about us. This isn't BET, which doesn't matter. These were people who were trying to establish that they were HUMAN and INTELLIGENT....and the image a BIG BLACK MAN sent was that the most human and intelligent person he could find to represent his BLACKNESS......looked nothing like him. I apologize to Ms. Cleaver if I offended her personally, I actually have nothing against her. But her image as a SPOKESPERSON was not right for this movement. You don't put much fear in white people about the intelligence of black people....when those deemed intelligent enough to confront them in public look like them. That CONFIRMS what they think, "the whiter you are, the more intelligent." For THIS movement, MR. CLEAVER would have been a better spokesperson. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1792 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
I'm still waiting for the day when a tanned "mexican-looking" white woman becomes the spokesperson for the klan movement. Even though they know some of them are somewhat dark skinned...they ain't that stupid. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6853 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
No, I'm not sayng what you asked me, Brownbeauty. What did I say to make you think that?? And I thought you went into "ignore" mode, Renata. Too bad you didn't stay there instead of coming back to spout some more drivel. The Black Panthers did not elevate any women in their movement to leadership positions. The faces of the Black Panther Movement were angry black men wearing black berets and displaying raised fists. The women stayed pretty much in the background but whenever Kathleen Cleaver or any other female members were interviewed they would always very effectively articulate the goals and the credo of this group. So STFU especially since you weren't even around back then. Go somewhere with your old wanna-be authentic self and pick out your pseudo-afro and sit you fat ass down. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1793 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
I'm with Brownbeauty. The half-white, half Jewish guy I dated wasn't this white. COURTNEY COX isn't this white...and she's white. LOL | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6854 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
All of you gibbering malcontents can kiss my black ass because the THE CHICAGO BEARS BEAT THE NEW ORLEANS SAINTS AND ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL! BUH BYE. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1794 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
Serena, sweetie, please explain to this old ••••• that just because I choose to ignore a member doesn't mean I have to ignore them all. And post a picture of Courtney Cox, someone. I actually think she's pretty. And I'd like to make her an honorary black person. She has dark hair and eyes, so I think she qualifies. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1795 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Never mind...I'll find one. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1796 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
 | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6855 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
What is that picture supposed to prove, you idiot? A woman with long artificial hair extensions and sun-baked skin who has never paid her dues in the cause of fighting racism is supposed to make point. How desperate can you get, renata. You and Brownbeauty and Serenasailor could give the 3 stooges a run for their money. BEARS WIN! BEARS WIN! | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1096 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Well you must be the missing stooge Cynique. I see Renata's point. Even thought Courtney Cox is a dark women. She is still a White women with white skin, features,and hair. Just like Renata is a light-skinned woman. They both get the priviledge of being light-skinned women. | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1097 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
And that is why the BPM movement was never taken seriously. It was just passed off as a bunch of angry Black men who just wanted to "stick it to mean ole whitey". That is why Black Americans are in the condition they are in today. Because when you think about none of these movements were "real". And again you had Mullattos, Quadroons, and Octoroons representing them like Huey Newton. Who was not a "Black Man". All of our organizations are represented by Mullattos. That is the way it is. | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1098 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Will someone put a pic up of Courtney Cox and Kathleen Cleaver side by side. PLEASE!!! | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1797 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Actually, Serena, my point was that this woman is darker than some people we call black. She's darker than Ms. Cleaver. But she could be black....if she chooses. All she would have to do is say she is, and we'll accept it. This woman would have been asked to leave a Jim Crow era business, before Mrs. Cleaver would have. | ||
| Serenasailor Veteran Poster Username: Serenasailor Post Number: 1099 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
And before Mariah Carey, and Jennifer Beals. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6858 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Of all people to pick to try and make your feeble point, - why Courtney Cox? This blue-eyed, straight-haired woman is not dark-skinned. She is the color of normal white people. And once again, Kathleen Cleaver has nappy hair which is a trait that would cast doubt about her being a "pure" white person. Kathleen's skin is unnaturally pale by anyone's standards and this may be due to borderline albinoism more than race. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3102 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Cynique - I know damn well you aren't trying to talk some sense to Renata's dizzy ass! Give it up! NOW!!! | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1643 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
renata: with all of what women in the panther movement...first of all, we are talkin about Oakland...and while it was the national base, it was caught up in so much drama that in 1967...it was barely running, and it didn't have many members, let alone female members... More importantly, what evidence is there that proves that her color is what put her in power....a better answer would be a) her husband...b) her education c) and prior organizing experience! Have you actually read anything on the panthers...and i'm not talkin bout watchin a movie...have you read anything... | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1600 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"She is the color of normal white people. And once again, Kathleen Cleaver has nappy hair which is a trait that would cast doubt about her being a "pure" white person" And to others her skin color and features would cast doubt for her being a "pure" Black person. What is your point?? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1601 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
She's not all Black to some, and not all White to others...what can't you grasp that simple concept Cynique?? She is a multiracial woman. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6860 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
In response to what was said, Brownbeauty, my point is that with her nappy hair, a white person would be skeptical about Kathleen being all white unlike Courtney Cox who is an authentic looking white woman, in spite of what you and others have implied. I just saw her close-up in an interview on Golden Globe is she is not dark-complexioned. And why can't you comprehend the legitimate contention that Kathleen Cleaver has chosen to identify with her black heritage by word and deed something her being bi-racial allows her to do. And all of this sniping from the peanut gallery by lackeys with no credentials except the ones bestowed on them by kola boof is an exercise in contrariness. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1602 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"And why can't you comprehend the legitimate contention that Kathleen Cleaver has chosen to identify with her black heritage by word and deed something her being bi-racial allows her to do. And all of this sniping from the peanut gallery by lackeys with no credentials except the ones bestowed on them by kola boof is an exercise in contrariness." None of my posts in this thread argued that she couldn't identify with being Black--I just made the observation that she looks White. Because she does. The rest of that ish you babbling is between you and the other posters. Not me. | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1646 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
brownbeauty123: What is interesting to me is, how people in the day viewed her and her parents. That is, clearly she is faired skinned, but what did her neighbors and her parents neighbors think...but sides saying she yellow...would they have used the terms..multiracial, etc... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6862 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, Brownbeauty, if you are so detached from the issue being discussed, then stop directing questions to what I post and I'll stop responding to the questions you ask. Get it? | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1603 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
"What is interesting to me is, how people in the day viewed her and her parents. That is, clearly she is faired skinned, but what did her neighbors and her parents neighbors think...but sides saying she yellow...would they have used the terms..multiracial, etc..." I'm not really sure being that I didn't grow up during that era. But in this day and age, many would use the term multiracial to describe her. I know I surely would. I mean, the only people who look closely to resembling her in my family are Mixed. | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4250 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique's day is OVER...and thank GOD for the integrity of Black women's reality. FROM NOW ON...the "one drop" rule is going to be obsolete and Mixed Race people will finally be given respect for who they really are and will not be used as PAWNS of White Supremacy to STEAL the identity of Black People. Kathleen Cleaver is NOT a Black Woman, and now that the Authentic Blacks are realizing that they can't be ruled over by Bi-racial and Multi-Racials, HISTORY is not even going to remember as a Black Woman. The Black Panther Party was IMPOTENT from the beginning. | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 479 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
You cant dismiss an entire race because of the lightness of thier skin. My grandfather was white as Kathleen with blue eyes and he was blacker than most. LiLi | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4254 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Your grandfather must have had WHITE BLOOD to be white skinned with blue eyes. And that's just the point---he was "multi-racial", not BLACK. | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 482 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
He is black I am black, my family: black. LiLi | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 483 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
SAY IT LOUD....IM BLACK AND IM PROUD HOLDING UP RAISED FIST LiLi | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6863 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
POOR OL KOLA IS WHISTLING IN THE DARK TO QUELL HER FEARS, PATHETICALLY TRYING TO BOLSTER HER SAGGING MORALE WITH HOLLOW WORDS, DESPERATELY CLINGING TO THE WISHFUL THINKING THAT SUSTAINS HER AND THOSE WHO WOULD FOLLOW THIS FALSE PROPHET AND VAIN-GLORIOUS HARLOT DOWN THE PATH TO NOWHERE, - A DESTINATION WHERE THE DREAM OF A FEW WILL BE OVERWHLEMED BY THE PRAGMATISM OF MANY. I AM NOT THE ENEMY. REALITY IS WHAT WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF A HOPE THAT IS DEPENDENT ON RETRIBUTION IN A COUNTRY WHERE POWER, NOT FANTASY RULES. AMERICA IS NOT YOUR HOME, KOLA BOOF, AND NEVER HAS BEEN OR WILL BE. LEAVE HERE AND TAKE YOUR DISCIPLES TO WHERE YOU CAN START FROM SCRATCH. SOMETHING YOU CAN SHOW THEM HOW TO DO BECAUSE YOU ARE A BOOTY SCRATCHER AND A PITIFUL ASS-HOLE. LMAO. GO BEARS! | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3103 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
WRONG Kola Spoof. It's your day that's over. Why don't you take your authentic Mixie Bi-racial Half-breed Mulatto rants and shove them. Because we all know that You Aren't Really BLACK!!! And nothing you post is going to change that!!! C-R-A-C-K B-A-B-Y!!! | ||
| Schakspir Veteran Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 824 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: |
Kola B: The Black Panther Party was IMPOTENT from the beginning. Schakspir: And you were a FRAUD from the moment you bought a PC laptop and created this stupid, idiotic fictional character called Kola Boof. | ||
| Schakspir Veteran Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 825 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: |
Kola: FROM NOW ON...the "one drop" rule is going to be obsolete and Mixed Race people will finally be given respect for who they really are and will not be used as PAWNS of White Supremacy to STEAL the identity of Black People. Schakspir: So--let's start with you, then. Go back to the Sudan and fight for "your people" if you insist that those are "your people." Get the •••• out of here and take your cornball, monkey "agenda" with you. Of course, your REAL agenda is to rant and ••••• and moan on this site until some poor wussy black guy takes pity on you and agrees to let you be his ball and chain. I'm sorry, but after two years, if it hasn't happened now, it will never happen. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3107 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
Schak - She'd stand a better chance of landing some internet •••• if she'd stop posting those grotesque pix of herself, that's for sure.  LOLOL!!! | ||
| Nels Veteran Poster Username: Nels Post Number: 699 Registered: 07-2005 Rating: |
Scientific fact: All Caucasians start out before birth with "blue" eyes. Some retain them and some don't. Any so-called "black" person having blue eyes has a strong Caucasian-specific gene. Only the irrelevant U.S. ODR classifies them as "black". | ||
| Dahomeyahosi Regular Poster Username: Dahomeyahosi Post Number: 166 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Libralind: Please explain how your pale grandfather with blue eyes was blacker than most. Do you mean most of the American population, i.e. other white people? | ||
| Libralind2 Regular Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 489 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
And why do you need an explaintion..? Its not going to change..ummm anything. That is how I feel and what I saw growing up. So I guess I dont understand your needing more info..about my grandfather LiLi | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4261 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Someone sent me the following EMAIL: Kola you can't discuss such an issue with former slaves and you can't expect them to intellectualize what you are saying. They can only react emotionally just as your hurt as an African is coming from an emotional place. They can't understand how Africans feel insulted and you can't understand that this has been their way of life for hundreds of years. They are not from Africa they are from slavery. Thanks for that insight and I posted it as my ending comment, because I think he's right. | ||
| Dahomeyahosi Regular Poster Username: Dahomeyahosi Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Libralind2, I am wondering because your assertion is contradictory in and of itself. I thought maybe you meant culturally because otherwise it doesn't make any sense, at least not to me. | ||
| Dahomeyahosi Regular Poster Username: Dahomeyahosi Post Number: 169 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
they are not from Africa they are from slavery.... That is an amazing way to sum some things up. I know many Africans who will also accept bi-racial people as black but most that I personally know are not imbued with the cognitive dissonance required to do such a thing. The last time I was in Benin a brother and I had a discussion about Suzanne Malveaux's blackness. It was interesting. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1798 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
LOL... Yukio.....do you seriously believe no other woman in that organization was as educated or had any previous organizational responsibilities? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6874 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I'm curious, Nels. Just where do you stand on this issue? You seem to have personal issues, especially with Jews and with Jesse Jackson anointing the term "African-American". Are you a mixed-person who wants to disassociate yourself from black people or a black person who wants to expunge fair-skinned people who identify with their black heritage??? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6875 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
People need to understand that being married to Black Panther leader, Eldrige Cleaver does not define Kathleen Cleaver. She wielded no power in that organization and although they had an impact on white America, the Panthers, themselves, never accomplished a lot and never did much more than spout a lot of revolutionary rhetoric. They have been romanticized over the years but the best thing that could be said about them was that they successfully projected a menancing image that shook up a nervous country in the throes of social upheaval. | ||
| Nels Veteran Poster Username: Nels Post Number: 705 Registered: 07-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique -- "I'm curious, Nels. Just where do you stand on this issue? You seem to have personal issues, especially with Jews and with Jesse Jackson anointing the term "African-American". Are you a mixed-person who wants to disassociate yourself from black people or a black person who wants to expunge fair-skinned people who identify with their black heritage???" No, I don't have issues; I just like to make noise. sub... "Are you a mixed-person who wants to disassociate yourself from black people or a black person who wants to expunge fair-skinned people who identify with their black heritage???" Why disassociate? That won't solve "any" problems. I don't identify as black just for the sake of it. Many mixed/bi people find great strength in the complexity of the black experience. But, their affinity is often greater than skin deep. The key is for people to not expunge any portion of their heritage because that's who and what they are (i.e. their "human construct"). Don't sacrifice one for the other. Instead, each part of a person's heritage should complement the other(s) - there’s strength in numbers. " Jesse Jackson anointing the term "African-American" Unfortunately, that term is one of the biggest hoaxes ever put forth on the "black" identity, or lack thereof. Blacks in America have been “looking” and “searching” for an identity (not just a suitable one) for many years, seeking to hitch a ride on the coattails of a desire to be included, instead of accepting “who” they are on the merits of their own existence. They are constantly letting others define them or worse, they themselves are otherwise hell-bent on a blind lifelong obsession of “anti-blackness” instead of leveraging their broad multi-heritage backgrounds into a solid, progressive and cohesive statement to the world of accomplishment ,achievement and unbridled potential. From AA to Laquanda to the rest of (what I consider) a sad demonstrable legacy of self-denial and intra-racial conflict, U.S. blacks have yet to tackle the issue of their true identity. Instead of examining the state and threads of their current condition, they spend an inordinate amount of precious time acquiescing to the broad winds of racial, economic and religious discontent that permeate their increasingly marginalized and scarily irrelevant lives. Having lived with African continentals before, I discovered that their perception of the U.S. black experience was a true eye opener - a priceless life-enriching gem of wisdom, pearl of thought. As for the term African-American…well, let’s put it this way - the mainstream media could never even air their (i.e., continentals) true feelings about that one. IMO, AA is pure “BULLSHIT”, for so many reasons and facts that I’d have to start almost a “full” hand of new threads just to begin to even scratch the surface and elaborate on a granular level - like in atomicity. And for that matter, the same would be true of Dr. Maulana Karenga’s founding of Kwanzaa - a nonsense approach to the real dilemma of being black (or perceived as black) in America and living long enough to tell about it. Africa? For the ills of today’s most challenging “U.S. black” issues…wrong continent, wrong lifetime. “especially with Jews” Well, that one really deserves an entire Britannica edition on “Manipulation of the Image”. How “stupid” can black American society be to let this group of chronic narcissistic money-grubbing economic sociopaths bleed it’s (i.e., black American society’s) dignity and pride for the sake of another buffoon-laden sitcom, booty-skakin’ lyric, accident-chasing lawyer-benefiting court settlement, nose-ring swing jaunt through the jungle…well, you get the message. To really go there “here” would only do the subject an injustice. In another in-depth thread series, definitely. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6879 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Well, after wending my way through all of the obfuscation, Nels, all I can conclude is that you apparently think there should be 2 categories: mixed blood and pure breed and that "African American" is a catch-all phrase that doesn't do certain people justice. You are also unabashedly anti-semitic. And so it goes. | ||
| Americansista Regular Poster Username: Americansista Post Number: 215 Registered: 09-2006 Rating: N/A |
^^^ Damn, Cynique... talking about summing something up in a nutshell.  | ||
| Nels Veteran Poster Username: Nels Post Number: 708 Registered: 07-2005 Rating: N/A |
Cynique -- "obfuscation" I just (love) that word. It's the most common "out" that readers take when they disagree. No one said anything about two (2) categories (though perception is in the eye of the beholder), and none was suggested either - as there is no such thing as a pure bred "African American". As for the Jews, my view isn't anti-Semitic at all. It just reflects "first-hand" observations that I've actually experienced and been privy to. If I was really anti-Semitic, I probably would have made the 11 o'clock news by now. Who knows, I might just be an Arab. ;) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6881 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I don't really disagree with you, Nels. Your view on this controversial subject is no more ambivalent than anybody elses; it's clearer than that of some people, and vaguer than that of others. As for anti-semitism, - yours seems latent. | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1653 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
They can only react emotionally just as your hurt as an African is coming from an emotional place. They can't understand how Africans feel insulted and you can't understand that this has been their way of life for hundreds of years. They are not from Africa they are from slavery. That is a foolish comment, as I see it. Slavery in the U.S. ended 1865. Slavery was not invented in the Americas. We know, as you do, that slavery is an old institution part of civilization since ancient times. We also know that BEFORE the transatlantic slave trade too root in Africa [around the mid-15t century] Africans enslaved other Africans. But within this system of enslavement, African slaves were primarily assimilated into their master's societies; thus, there was African slavery, and slaves exported through the trans-Sahaharan trade. But by the time, the british, french, and the dutch began to partake in the trans-Atlantic trade [1650s], African slavery began to change, and by the 17th century, African slavery began to be associated both with the creation of African states and agricultural economies. And after the slave trade formally ended in 1807, Africans slavery expanded exponentially until around the turn of the 20th century, as Europeans used the elimination of slavery in Africa as a reason to devy up Africa. Thus, as quiet as its kept among many Africans, many of them are descendants of slaves. They often focus on their more recent oppressive history of colonialism, but slavery in Africa, at least on a large scale, ended around 1900, that is AFTER slavery in ALL of the Americas. With that said, one would hope that a people's history can go beyond that part of their history that is related to oppression....One can only hope that Africans and African Americans can learn how to play fair, read, read, talk, talk, break bread, and consider that neither is right or wrong, but there has to be room to agree to disagree and at the same time focus on shared struggles and goals. But I am an optimist! | ||
| Kola_boof AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Kola_boof Post Number: 4270 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yukio....STOP THE BULLSHIT. Only "American" slavery invented a "One Drop" rule. And "Americans Blacks" were FORCED and CONDITIONED to accept the one drop rule during SLAVERY. They carried it on afterwards, because by then---it was natural as breathing to them. That's just one more VIOLATION against the Humanity of Black people that they "hold onto" because it's all they know. NO WHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET ---not Brazil, not Haiti, not Africa not Dominican Republic do Black People adhere to this racist, idiotic one drop bullshit. It goes with being a NIG. You think so little of yourself that just anybody can be you--and you're PROUD of that. Now it makes sense why all of your children want to be white ---they've been TAUGHT/RAISED that they can become White and still call themselves "black" ---which is why there's no need to be black people anymore. | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1663 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Aghast! LOL! You know I love you gurl, but I disagree...I'm tired of typing! LOL! Muah! | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6891 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
The idea that Africans can set themselves up as people black Americans should heed is a big joke. No wonder their feelings get "hurt'. Deep down inside they know that ain't got shit goin for themselves. | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1666 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
all africans do not think alike, cynique. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1608 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"More importantly, what evidence is there that proves that her color is what put her in power....a better answer would be a) her husband...b) her education c) and prior organizing experience! Have you actually read anything on the panthers...and i'm not talkin bout watchin a movie...have you read anything..." Thank you Yukio. My point exactly. But the skin color crazed zealots will spin their bigotry and silly rhetoric anyway possible as long as it conforms to their narrow minded erroneous thinking. It's almost pointless to argue with those with a mindset that is equally racist and intellectually bankrupt as Tom Metzger disciples. | ||
| Yukio Veteran Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 1681 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ntfs: I'm not sure if its racist or not, since it is not clear if they are talkin bout black, as color, or black, as a racial identifier, or black as a group. As I see it, only Kola is explicit about these nuances, while the others, generally speaking, tend to view blackness as something that is self-evident.... I also differentiate thought, or as you say mindset, from the power to excercise or concretize these thoughts into action. We, black people, do not have that kind of power.... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 8070 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Ntfs & Yukio, I doubt I'm of the color crazed zealotry to which you refer. But Kathleen is too dayam White looking for foks to be calling her Black. Hell. She's lighter than most WHITE foks I see most days. And while I do think it's unfair to disparage her simply because of her appearance I ALSO think there's something unhealthy about brandishing and embellishing a Black woman who looks so DIFFERENTLY from how most Black women look. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1614 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"I'm not sure if its racist or not, since it is not clear if they are talkin bout black, as color, or black, as a racial identifier, or black as a group." It's racist. All their carping and blistering condemnations focus on "skin color" as a pseudo-criteria for blackness. As you know Yukio, selectively picking out blacks for personal attacks for no other reason than their skin color, is racist! It's the same mindset that is used by other non-blacks to denigrate blacks. I will always speak out against such mean spirited and perilous vindications. It really irks me to see black people attack other blacks -whether they are dark or light complexioned, for no other reason than skin color differences. My questions is this: Are black people not divided and fragmented enough for them without this particular type of insidious behavior...???? | ||
| Libralind2 Veteran Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 513 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Im wif ya when ya rite !!! Holding up the black power...welll you know... LiLi | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6944 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
In response to your post, Yukio, the person who e-mailed Kola spoke of Africans in the general sense, so I responded in kind, And if Kola and those from the African continent who post on this board and the Africans I have met in person are any indication, all Africans seem to have a need for us to heed their advice. Poor Kathleen Cleaver. She has alabaster skin which is more about aberration than race. If she chose to be white, this porcelin skin would be an asset because it's not that common among Caucasians either. But since she has decided to embrace the black heritage which is mansifested in her hair and her nose, then her ivory skin can be a disadvantage. From what I can deduce, she now seems to be more in an advisory position than in the forefront of the black struggle, and the expertise she brings to the table cannot be denied. She's paid her dues, so she deserves the benefit of the doubt. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3211 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Listen to the knowledge people! Cynique's wisdom is only one of the reasons that she's worth her weight in gold. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3212 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
I remember when I was about six years old, we were at my Auntie's church in Louisville, and I tugged at my people and asked "what's that white lady doing singing in the choir?" And it was explained to me that she was not white, but a light-skinned Black woman. And that's exactly what she was. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1627 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"She's paid her dues, so she deserves the benefit of the doubt." Thank you Ms. Cynique. Yes she has. As I stated before, where were all the cynical schizoid skin color haters when she was organizing blacks in the sweltering heat and white racist violence in 1967? Where were they when she was publicly speaking out against police brutality and the of the excesses of the FBI in 1969? Strange their only concern and obsession is the color of her skin. Nothing else.....NOTHING!! "Listen to the knowledge people! Cynique's wisdom is only one of the reasons that she's worth her weight in gold." Agreed...!!!!!  | ||
| Libralind2 Veteran Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 514 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
My fro looked like dat !!! LiLi | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1630 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"My fro looked like dat !!!" You go gurl! Hit ya one mo' time wit the back da day Fro...!!!! Boo-yahaaaa....!!!!!!  | ||
| Libralind2 Veteran Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 517 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oh yea..that be me !!! LOL Earrings, jewlery, glasses, mini skirt and all. Thanks for the memory LOL In fact, I have a pic that I looked at when packing to move here to Houston, that made me say to myself.."why da hail didnt someone ask you..ummm where you think you going in that..?" LOLLOL Whew..thinking back, you could NOT tell me I wasnt cute LAWD..I "almost" looked like I was going to the hobo hop..LOL The 70's..what a decade LOL LiLi | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4191 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Why not just go all the way?  | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4192 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
 | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 8121 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, Why not? Your girl Robin Givens did. | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4194 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Abm, I'm sayin, they paid their dues as well    | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3227 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
So Tonya, you're implying that Brangelina is Black??? What's your point??? And what "dues" have they paid??? | ||
| Libralind2 Veteran Poster Username: Libralind2 Post Number: 521 Registered: 09-2004 Rating: N/A |
Umm and I aint never tried to look like Brad Pitt..what are you saying..?????? LiLi | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1639 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
Nothing......... | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4196 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Mzuri, I'm saying if Blackness is measured by the amount of work one does to up lift Black people...then welcome aboard George, Brad and Angelina! And while we're at it, let’s not forget the hundreds of whites who gave their LIVES in the 60’s, and the thousands who supported us with their money sweat and tears. Angela Davis comes in all colors, just ask Angelina: The number of white Americans working HARD to improve the lives of Black Americans TODAY exceeds the number of Blacks who are doing the same today. So my point is if good deeds are what constitute Blackness, then white people are The Authentic Blacks, not me, not you, not our ancestors... Ntfs, You're the best on this board at saying NOTHING. Watch you come back with a post filled with NOTHING....BUT ADJECTIVES...cuz you have nothing else--BUT ADJECTIVES--to say. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1640 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"And while we're at it, let’s not forget the hundreds of whites who gave their LIVES in the 60’s, and the thousands who supported us with their money sweat and tears. Angela Davis comes in all colors, just ask Angelina: " Good point. I agree. This is a fact that is often over looked. There were many whites who left their comfortable white world to put their lives on the line for the human and civil rights struggle for blacks in the South. Many were severely beaten, crippled and even murdered. This fact is well documented. They did not have to do what they did but a sense of justice and an indignation at the brutality of Southern white culture motivated them to risk their careers and their lives. "The number of white Americans working HARD to improve the lives of Black Americans TODAY exceeds the number of Blacks who are doing the same today. So my point is if good deeds are what constitute Blackness, then white people are The Authentic Blacks, not me, not you, not our ancestors... " Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny....as usual. Your point is half right. Yes, there are many whites who are working and dedicating their time and lives to help blacks in Africa and here in the US. This is a fact that cannot be disputed. But your cynical twist of whites being "Authentic Blacks" (a silly misnomer), is....well.....disingenuous. A white person who performs benevolent deeds for blacks is still white. A black person who does benevolent things for blacks is still black. What do you not understand? Are you trying to make the case that Brad Pitt and Angelina are black because of they decided to have a baby in Nambia?? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Well....good luck. "You're the best on this board at saying NOTHING. Watch you come back with a post filled with NOTHING....BUT ADJECTIVES...cuz you have nothing else--BUT ADJECTIVES--to say." Why ya so hard on the brother? Dang.....! | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3229 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
Tonya - I understand the point that you think you're trying to make, but Angelina Jolie is no ANGELA DAVIS. By no stretch of anyone's imagination. And no one here has stated that good deeds are the definition of Blackness, unless I missed that. Even if they were, Kathleen Cleaver and Angela Davis have done more than just "good deeds." They are lifelong militants, human rights, civil rights and political activists, attorneys, educators and more - which is what they've dedicated their entire lives to. Their contributions are immeasurable because they aren't monetary, but paid in sweat equity. And that is much more than Angelina's P.R. machine at work in her effort to be perceived as something other than the trailer trash half-assed actress that she really is. I guess you didn't know that money can buy a United Nations dignitarial position or whatever her current cause is today. Let's keep it real please. | ||
| Brownbeauty123 Veteran Poster Username: Brownbeauty123 Post Number: 1653 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: |
People say Black/African American is a culture--well, how can that be when individuals like Mariah Carey and other multiracials are labeled Black regardless of whether or not they were raised in a black environment? For instance, Mariah Carey has stated in many interviews that she identifies with her White side more than her Black because her Irish mother raised her. Not to mention, she lived in a white neighborhood & went to all white schools and used to pass herself off as Italian before she made it big. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6962 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
Blackness is a state of mind which is at the core of black culture, Brownbeauty. Halle always considered herself black. And a lot of people who are not mired down in obstinancy and resentment judge people by their deeds and their committment, not by the patronizing guilt which motivates white do-gooders. For every authentic black person who rejects Kathleen Cleaver, there are 2 or even more slave descendants who accept her as a "soul sister". | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1644 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Tonya - I understand the point that you think you're trying to make, but Angelina Jolie is no ANGELA DAVIS. By no stretch of any one's imagination. And no one here has stated that good deeds are the definition of Blackness, unless I missed that. Even if they were, Kathleen Cleaver and Angela Davis have done more than just.............." Thank you Ms. Mzuri. You articulated an excellent point. The skin color zealots cannot get beyond their own insecurities and self loathing. Instead, they have to selectively pick out certain blacks to denigrate and attempt to discredit their accomplishments. Of course they cannot do so, but their egregious failed efforts should be noted. It's very sad to see these confused Negroes rant and rave against other blacks because (and only because) their light complexion generates nothing but bitterness and jealously from them. Be it a good or bad thing, black people come in different skin shades. This fact will never change -ever! Something they cannot accept nor tolerate. Too bad for them since their angst is misplaced and accomplishes nothing. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 8125 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Ntfs, You ever read Eldridge Cleaver's Soul On Ice. If you haven't, you really should, bruh. It's an interesting read, in sort of a maddening, homocidal and misogynistic way. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 8126 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
You'll probably really enjoy his musing about White women. Every redblooded American White man's nightmare put to pen. | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4210 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Mzuri said: "Tonya. . . .Let's keep it real please." Angelina gives a third--ONE THIRD--of her massive paycheck to a cause that reaches Blacks WORLDWIDE......can't get no realer than that.. sorry. "I guess you didn't know that money can buy a United Nations dignitarial position or whatever her current cause is today." You're ABSOLUTELY right:"Lifelong militants, human rights, civil rights, political activists..." ALL that shit CAN be bought.... And so my point remains the same: IF Kathleen Cleaver is Black, Angelina Jolie is BLACKER. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 8127 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
I KNEW it was something about Angelina Jolie I really like...OTHER than I how much I'd REALLY like to lay wood to her. | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4211 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
....LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! You a NASTY boy, that's ALL that is! | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4212 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Btw, Mzuri, my initial post was not directed at you, I have no idea what position you took on this thread/topic. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 3237 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Tonya - Let me get this straight. You place more value on Angelina Jolie because she's a Hollywood actress and thru her massive earnings and ability to donate she's BLACKER than Kathleen Cleaver and Angela Davis who have only given of themselves???? | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1649 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"You ever read Eldridge Cleaver's Soul On Ice. If you haven't, you really should, bruh." Oh yeah! I read it many years ago. In fact, I was telling a black female friend of mine about it last night. She just finished a black studies course and is about to take another. She heard of the book and had some questions as to why the book was so controversial. I told her about the part where Eldridge Cleaver said when he has sex with a black woman, he has to do in the dark. And while having sex with a black woman, he is fantasizing that she is white. And if his hand accidentally brushes across or touches her nappy hair, well....there goes the erection. Done deal. Needless to say, this did not sit very well with her. Heh! Heh! Heh! Heh! | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 1650 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Let me get this straight. You place more value on Angelina Jolie because she's a Hollywood actress and thru her massive earnings and ability to donate she's BLACKER than Kathleen Cleaver and Angela Davis who have only given of themselves????" Angelina should be commended for what she has done. I respect that. But as all rational people know, she is a white woman. Contributing money or time to worthy and needy black issues does not make you black if you are not already black. No rocket science is needed here. The life long work and contributions by Kathleen Cleaver and Angela Davis can never be erased nor diminished by the lunacy of schizoid skin color bigots. Both were born black, lived their entire lives as black women and will die as black women. But when you attempt to explain this to Negroes who have skin color issues and irrational hatred, common sense, logic and intelligence are completely disregarded. Thus making it very difficult if not impossible to reason with them. Very sad. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 6969 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, Tonya, I don't think my features are any keener than Kathleen Cleaver's and her hair may be a little more nappy than mine yet you and your flat behind had no problem "bestowing your blessing on me" when it came to being "authentic". Face it, you just resent Kathleen because of her skin color. Back in the 60s the mystique of "soul" that was inherent in being a slave descendant was the litmus test for membership in the black family. |
