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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1419
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 05:49 am: | 
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What Obama isn't: black like me (Stanley Crouch Eats His Own)
By Stanley Crouch
If Barack Obama makes it all the way to becoming the Democratic nominee for President in 2008, a feat he says he may attempt, a much more complex understanding of the difference between color and ethnic identity will be upon us for the very first time. Back in 2004, Alan Keyes made this point quite often. Keyes was the black Republican carpetbagger chosen by the elephants to run against Obama for the U.S. Senate seat from Illinois. The choice of Keyes was either a Republican version of affirmative action or an example of just how dumb the party believes black voters to be, since it was obvious that Keyes came from the Southeast, not the Midwest.
That race was never much of a contest, but one fascinating subplot was how Keyes was unable to draw a meaningful distinction between himself as a black American and Obama as an African-American. After all, Obama's mother is of white U.S. stock. His father is a black Kenyan. Other than color, Obama did not - does not - share a heritage with the majority of black Americans, who are descendants of plantation slaves.
Of course, the idea that one would be a better or a worse representative of black Americans depending upon his or her culture or ethnic group is clearly absurd. Even slavery itself initially came under fire from white Christians - the first of whom to separate themselves from the institution were Quakers. The majority of the Union troops were white, and so were those who have brought about the most important civil rights legislation.
Why then do we still have such a simple-minded conception of black and white - and how does it color the way we see Obama? The naive ideas coming out of Pan-Africanism are at the root of the confusion. When Pan-African ideas began to take shape in the 19th century, all black people, regardless of where in the world they lived, suffered and shared a common body of injustices. Europe, after all, had colonized much of the black world, and the United States had enslaved people of African descent for nearly 250 years.
Suffice it to say: This is no longer the case.
So when black Americans refer to Obama as "one of us," I do not know what they are talking about. In his new book, "The Audacity of Hope," Obama makes it clear that, while he has experienced some light versions of typical racial stereotypes, he cannot claim those problems as his own - nor has he lived the life of a black American.
Will this matter in the end? Probably not. Obama is being greeted with the same kind of public affection that Colin Powell had when he seemed ready to knock Bill Clinton out of the Oval Office. For many reasons, most of them personal, Powell did not become the first black American to be a serious presidential contender.
I doubt Obama will share Powell's fate, but if he throws his hat in the ring, he will have to run as the son of a white woman and an African immigrant. If we then end up with him as our first black President, he will have come into the White House through a side door - which might, at this point, be the only one that's open.
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Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 572
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 09:43 am: |
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well its true that ethnicity does have some bearing over race in some cases......because i notice that black foreigners are treated and looked upon by the rest of the country as superior to african americans. the only people who dont seem to see this as true are african americans. |
Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 573
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 09:45 am: |
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anyway i didnt read the whole article...only browsed the first paragraph |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3281
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 11:55 am: |
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This is an old column
And we all know Stanley's brain is burnt out |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2742
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:45 pm: |
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This topic has been discussed:
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/179/17700.html?1164675296
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 01:50 pm: |
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And we all know Stanley's brain is burnt out.
Naaaawwwww...! Comon' Chris, ya really don't mean that do you..?? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6442
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
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I wasn't aware that Stanley Crouch's brain is burnt out, especially since he does such a great job of ruffling the feathers of people like chrishayden who, if people like Stanley Crouch or Bill Cosby or Juan Williams said the sky was "blue", he'd insist it was "green". |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1428
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:15 pm: |
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Yeah, bro Stanley has made quite a few enemies. In fact, I have gone to numerous blogs and web sites where people have passionately denounced and bitterly criticized him for his writing, his personality and his looks. I've followed bro Stan for many years and I have seen a big transformation in his political and musical interpretations. His political views are very conservative when compared to what they were when he left LA for NYC in the early 70's. And whereas before he championed the creative improvisational music of the likes of Cecil Taylor, AEC, Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler and Sonny Simmons, he now heatedly denounces it all!!
If you're not playing or rehashing the artistic and technical sterility of Wynton Marsalis (his brother Bradford is much more adventuresome and fresh in his musical ideas and playing -IMO), he really has nothing positive to say. Contrary to the widespread loathing of his writing, I have agreed with many things he has advocated and said. But there are times he has said some of the most incendiary and stupid bullshit known to man. Statements and assertions that boarder on delusional detachment from reality. But he does serve a purpose. That's why I like him even though I don't always agree with him.
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3293
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:54 pm: |
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Cynique:
You forgot to add skunks, the clap, child abuse and tornadoes to the list.
Ntfs:
I hate him but I wish I'd written what you wrote about that Toad.
I should have mercy on him. He's tired, worn out, used up, dried up toad. He is probably sexually impotent which makes him mad at all younger people.
If he were at least a good writer I could respect him, but he's a fat lazy bum. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6448
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:30 pm: |
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chrishayden, there was no need for me to include those scurrilous characters you named with the polemic Stanley Crouch who chooses not to walk in lock step with the liberal agenda. His prerogative. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3300
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
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Some blacks do not choose to walk in lockstep with the literal agenda (yet listen to jazz music and live in Greenwich village--can you fancy that?)and others are suck ups on the payroll.
It always puzzles me when a black says he is conservative I ask him what are you trying to conserve? Most blacks are too sexually freakish to ever be conservative so they should quit it.
At any rate, Stanley is a lazy, talentless suckup who could not make it as a drummer, could not make it as a real writer and has found an easy way out with trying to massage racist white folks.
Like all who do that, he shall have his reward.
And when they get him, he will start crying racism. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6450
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:44 pm: |
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I didn't say Crouch was a conservative, chrishayden. So your whole argument is full of hot air. Stanley comes out of a lot of different bags. Unlike you who are a tiresome broken record. I like ol Stanley and one of the reasons I do, is because he gets under your loathsome skin. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7446
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:50 pm: |
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Chris: "Most blacks are too sexually freakish to ever be conservative..."
Hahahaha!!!
Though the truth is most WHITES are too. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 02:01 pm: |
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"It always puzzles me when a black says he is conservative I ask him what are you trying to conserve? Most blacks are too sexually freakish to ever be conservative so they should quit it."
Most black people are sexually freaky?? Compared to whom? White people? LOL bro. I don't think so. Not that there is anything wrong with being sexually freaky. I know I am, although I'm not currently acting out but I don't think being black has anything to do with it.
"At any rate, Stanley is a lazy, talentless suck up who could not make it as a drummer, could not make it as a real writer and has found an easy way out with trying to massage racist white folks."
Chris, I'm sorry bro, but I gotta disagree with ya. First of all, you are right about Stanley's drumming -he sucks! His recording sessions with David Murray make this fairly clear (he always appeared to be a cheap version of Sunny Murray). But I disagree with your assessment as being a poor writer. I have often heard this accusation but I disagree with it. I do not consider him an astute or compelling brilliant writer, but his music analysis is reasonable and often times informative. I have followed his music writing for many years so I can speak with some authority. His initial gig for writing for Players magazine back in the 70's was like a breath of fresh air since he, A. B. Spellman and Amira Baraka (aka LeRoy Jones) were the only three brothers doing any serious writing about black creative improvised music. His coverage of the NYC music scene (Studio Revbea, The Tin Palace, Ali's Alley, The Five Spot, Village Vanguard, Top of The Gate, et al) and record reviews (Arista, Nessa, ESP, Actuel BYG, etc), were very good and extremely entertaining. He was the only nationally syndicated brother doing such at the time. No one was covering the scene like he was -no none! Although his critical music writing is much more conservative and restrictive today, he still has some very important and correct things to say at times.
I think people react more to his acerbic personality than they do his writing. As I said, I do not consider him a brilliant innovative writer but I cannot buy into the popular hysteria of him being a poor writer. And yes, his first attempt at writing a novel, "Don't The Moon Look Lonesome", was trashed by the critics. And all of his current published books are collections of vignettes and articles that range from music commentary to social cultural analysis. His biography of Charlie "Bird" Parker was supposed to be published in 1981 and his analysis of CIM which was entitled "Gladiators and Out Laws" is still in progress....since 1978! Still waiting......
But your comment of ".....an easy way out with trying to massage racist white folks", flies in the face of reality. Why? Because most whites feel that he is a black racist and anti-white!!! It amazes me how many whites actually believe he dislikes white people while black people accuse him of being an Uncle Tom and a stooge for white conservatives. Who is right? If you don't think whites dislike him for being anti-white, read the countless blogs, letters to the editors and articles (http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/archive/index.php/t-6196.html) that raked him over the coals for his inflammatory article written for the Jazz Times (Putting the White Man in Charge) which led to his dismissal -via e-mail! In a Newsweek Online editorial, he accused his former employers (Jazz Times) of membership in a "union of white people" committed to "the elevation of white jazz musicians over their black betters." Bro Stan created an uproar when he maintained white critics were trying to destroy "the Negro aesthetic". He was unrepentant in his assertion that the white establishment resents a musical history from which it can't help but feel alienated (black music), and so champions jazz that sounds "white" and creates nefarious myths about sub-standard white players at the expense of original and innovative black ones.
Blacks accuse him of an obnoxious being a mouth piece for white conservatives and racists because he openly denounces the crippling culture of black victimization and entitlement and the thuggish buffoonery of gangsta rap. And for his audacity to hold black people accountable for their own lives and the children they sire, he has been an object of scorn and dismissal by a cottage industry of black excuse makers and the self serving Afro-ologists. Bottom line is this, the man is an equal opportunity offender. He greatly offends both blacks and whites by frustrating their attempts to categorize him according to their narrow visions and beliefs. That is why I like him even though once in a while he does have glaring lapses of reality.
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