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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3820
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 02:54 pm: | 
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Former Los Angeles prosecutor Chris Darden was guest today on Oprah's show and naturally the main topic of conversation was about O.J. Simpson and how he was acquitted of the murder of his wife Nicole 15 years ago. I tell you, between "O" and Chris I never witnessed such sorrowful indignation at the "injustice" of the not guilty verdict, their distress all played out before the approval of Oprah's empathetic white female audience. On and on a distraught Darden went, lamenting about how he had become a pariah in the black community for standing up for justice. And right there, sympathizing with him was our Oprah, hair in full bloom, nose tidied up, long eye-lashes lowered, bronzed skin glowing, steady interrupting to inject her own pronouncements as Darden attempted to engaged in his self-flagellation over how the prosecution had failed in its mission to punish a guilty man. Anyhoo, before launching into a tirade about the despicable Mark Fuhrman, Darden said he didn't believe polls that said 70-percent of blacks believed OJ was innocent, and that everybody knew Simpson did it. I am inclined to agree with this. But before I turned away, I kept hoping that Oprah would ask the clueless Darden if it ever occurred to him that at the root of OJ's black support was that in spite of his white-woman-loving reputation, he had in a way, redeemed himself with the black community because he had avenged all of the innocent black men who over the centuries had been lynched for crimes against white women that they had not committed; not to mention the Rodney Kings of the world who had been brutalized by the LAPD. tsk-tsk The blind-folded lady of justice may just have got it right. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1750
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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***tsk-tsk The blind-folded lady of justice may just have got it right.***
An eye for an eye? Ohhh, myyyy! ....Why, that's not cool!!!
How on earth! ...could we have let something like THAT.. happen!?!?
Oh, my...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3823
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:18 pm: |
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Very easy, Tonya. Nobody ever said life was fair. Which you will soon discover when you sink into the quicksand of your high hopes. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1751
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:24 pm: |
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O so you agree that it's right? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1752
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:27 pm: |
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Oh. wait a minute. I got you.... That's life. Right? |
Crystal
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 262
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:59 pm: |
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My goodness! "They" are never gonna get over this are they?
I still get a laugh remembering the faces of the white folks I worked with at the time of the verdict. Mad as hell! Walking around looking like it was their own kids that had been killed. It was hilarious! I had to close my office door so they wouldn't hear me laughing and lynch me or something.
I believe he did it and I was glad he got off for just the reason Cynique stated - "bout time". My Dad is just as sure he didn't do it becuase "OJ's just too stupid to pull off something like that."
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:08 pm: |
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I wasn't going to say anything about how that heifer made an ass of herself at the viewing of Cortetta Scott King's body but I will now, how that pig froze in the line and stood over the body for a long time, and how she was allowed to speak--
As usual with Mammy Winfrey, it's all about her.
Now about OJ.
When I knew it was a frame was when the media kept coming up with all this evidence that did not appear at the trial, ie they were supposed to have found the murder weapon buried at the base of a tree behind the hotel where OJ stayed in Chicago--this never appeared but most people think it was introduced at trial--they were supposed to have found a bunch of bloody clothes in a washer in his house--that not there either--he was supposed to have confessed to Rosie Greer--none of that there either.
The timeline is all wrong--he did not have time to kill two people, go home, clean up so that they couldn't even find any blood in the pipes in his shower and meet that limo that took him to the airport--
Did anybody ever think about this? You are so slick you kill two people, clean up and meet the limo but you are so dumb that you throw the bloody glove behind the house.
Did you ever think about this? The neighbors hear the dogs barking after the murder but don't hear two people getting their throats cut and dying--
Everybody inserts evidence to convict him that was never at the trial--if Kato, or his son, or Al Cowlings had been involved don't you think they would have charged them too? Why not?
Now let me say this--this is not to say he might not have had it done and I know he knows who did it, that's why they tried to frame him because they know he knew who killed them and he wouldn't tell.
But it all fits, don't it? This is Othello. The black man gets with the white woman and gets jealous and kills her. We all know it.
The fact that 30% of WHITE PEOPLE will say they think he was innocent says volumes. In America that's like 100%. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:15 pm: |
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Cynnique, Im watching the show now (it comes on at 4:oo here in Philly) and so far you are absoluteley right.
I'm ready to throw a book at the t.v.
Oprah is a Uncle Tom and Darden is just a sleeze bucket.
O.K. let me finish watching... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:25 pm: |
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Features
The O.J. Simpson Affair
More & Better Conspiracy Theories
by A. G. Coleman
I'm not convinced of Simpson's guilt, at least not according to plots proposed in the criminal and civil trials. Here are some unusual theories that provide new motives for murder, and also explain why witnesses change testimony.
In reference to the murder of his wife, Sharon Tate, by the Manson Family, Roman Polanski said, "If I'm looking for a motive, I'd look for something which doesn't fit your habitual standard, with which you use to work as police - something much more far out."
In cases of spousal murder, can anyone remember such a brutal, slashing knife attack? A gunshot, strangulation or beating is more common. Ask homicide detectives what comes to mind when they see a large number of cuts and stab wounds, and they tell you they suspect first a homosexual murder, then a ritualistic killing. Mark Fuhrman confirms this is not a typical spousal abuse killing. Interestingly, in his claim for a disability pension, he says that, "He (Fuhrman) is enraged if he doesn't like somebody, and would as soon slit someone's throat as talk to him."
A few days before the murders, Simpson threatens Nicole with
revealing her tax fraud. Brentwood yuppies, aside from indulging in cappuccino, drugs and sex, cheat on taxes. Some people fear ruin by the IRS, if the investigation spreads. Faye Resnick mentions that O.J. delights in inveigling friends in business ventures, some of questionable legality, to control them.
Ironically, Simpson entered into a sham transaction with Lou Brown in 1991, taking a lien on the Brown's home to protect it from creditors. (The $300,000 lien remains in place to this day, and Fred Goldman, following the civil trial, demands the promissory note as part of his judgment against Simpson.) Nicole, vulnerable to her ex-husband reporting her to the IRS,
retaliates with hints at reporting this or similar transactions, and infuriates O.J. or others.
The defense proposes a drug murder, directed at Faye Resnick, who owes her suppliers. Many point out that dealers seldom murder clients over modest drug debts, and not in so spectacular a fashion, but they are not so kind to their fellow traffickers. Osvado Montalvo, a hit man for the Cali cartel, prior to 1992, proudly relates that a woman stole a mere $20,000 from the cartel, and that he removed her fingernails and teeth.
Another scenario is that Resnick, who in the days preceding the murders uses cocaine and Valium, steals or "borrows" the spare key and the garage door opener from the Bundy condo. She plots with others, as druggies often do, even when there is no compelling financial reason, to rob Bundy of money, jewelry and drugs. Perhaps she assures her comrades the condo will not be occupied. Possibly they conspire to plant items pointing to Simpson, if only as a prank that will cause him trouble.
When Nicole offers Resnick the spare key and door opener to Bundy, but finds them missing, they launch a search. Nicole assumes O.J. filched them, and Faye does not dissuade her from this notion. Nicole's other friends and her maid conduct searches, each time reinforcing the idea that Simpson took them, and people later testify to this.
It is knowledge of an impending robbery or drug bust, and not an expected attack by Simpson, that fills Resnick with dread, and causes her to leave Bundy, while exhorting Nicole to leave too. Faye exaggerates her paranoia, ensuring an intervention by friends and a visit to drug rehab, thus simultaneously providing a safe place and an alibi for herself. Her drugged state causes Nicole to discount the warnings. The robbery or drug transaction goes awry, and the perpetrators flee, never entering the home.
Resnick's actions as a mediator between Nicole and O.J. are not in good faith, exacerbating their breakup. She harbors resentment toward Simpson for his treatment of her friend, and does not stop at implicating him in the murders, particularly if she is a conspirator in a botched robbery or drug deal and could be charged with murder. If witnesses are involved with illegal drugs, they are easily pressured to say nothing or change their stories, either by acquaintances who threaten to snitch, or by authorities who offer to overlook indiscretions.
Or maybe Resnick snitches for the DEA. Simpson says he heard from Nicole, that a friend of Resnick's was murdered in San Francisco many years earlier, and that Faye fled to Australia. Did Faye, Nicole, possibly O.J. himself, and who knows which of their friends, import drugs from Mexico on frequent trips to Cabo San Lucas? What better cover than carrying a suitcase of pharmaceuticals in the entourage of the famous football player. Customs agents would treat Simpson with the same deference as the police. This unauthorized traffic cuts in to a Westside franchise, and calls for an exemplary murder.
Tracy Ann Hill is arrested in Redding, California, in possession of a large quantity of cocaine. She has Simpson's phone number and a prescription vial bearing A.C. Cowling's name. A law enforcement report later lists Hill as working for an organized crime ring run by mobsters from the former Soviet Union.
Speculation on a drug connection assumes the people at Bundy are users, perhaps buying from suppliers at the Mezzaluna. What if the situation is reversed, and Bundy is a wholesale distribution point? One conspiracy theorist, Sherman Skolnick, suggests there is a tie between the Mezzaluna and the Mexican Herrera cartel, with affiliations to the CIA and Japanese Yakuza.
On June 11th, the day before the murders, the Joint Southern California Drug Task Force arrest, in Santa Ana, Maria Conception Herrera and Martin Antonio Coronel Lopez, and seize 386 kilos of cocaine, not a small amount. The cocaine is destined for Santa Fe Springs; Boise, Idaho; Minneapolis and Vermont, all locations frequented by the upscale crowd.
This raises two further possibilities: first, part of that shipment is headed for Brentwood, and when it doesn't arrive, somebody intending to take delivery there is displeased; second, Resnick or others provide drug enforcement with information that culminates in the Santa Ana bust, and another interdiction is planned for Bundy the following evening.
The last scenario, accounting for many discrepancies, and one appealing to devoted conspiracy theorists, involves a frame-up or cover-up at a level much higher than the LAPD. There are some hints in this direction. The time of the murders is never firmly established, but inferred from barking dogs and Heidstra's hearing a shout of, "Hey, hey, hey!" There are two reports that the murders occurred earlier. One is a call to police from the media, asking if they are sitting on the story of a double murder on the Westside; the other a call from a woman to 911, at 10:30 pm, asking if they have a report of a double murder in the 800 block of South Bundy.
There is a rumor that Goldman is followed from the Mezzaluna to Bundy, perhaps as part of drug bust, and under defense questioning the lead detectives hint at this on the witness stand. Another Mezzaluna waiter, Michael Nigg, is murdered in a parking lot in North Hollywood after the Bundy murders and several other personnel suffered the same fate in previous months. Sherman Skolnick claims that the DEA is at the scene, and records surveillance videotape of the murders. There are signs throughout the case that authorities know what happened at Bundy much earlier than stated.
Strangely, on the Sunday following the murders, the Los Angeles Times publishes an interview with FBI Director, Louis J. Freeh, in which he says the turf war between the FBI and DEA is over and promises greater cooperation between the two agencies to avoid future misunderstandings in undercover operations, which might endanger the life of agents and informers.
A convicted check forger, John Dunton, reports to police that a private investigator witnessed the murders of Ron and Nicole. He refuses to repeat the story in front of the Grand Jury, for fear of his life, and is jailed for contempt. In any investigation, people make strange assertions; some even repeatedly confess to crimes. Dunton does not confess, or claim he is a witness, or that a private investigator committed the murders, but that a private investigator is a witness to the murders, a strange assertion indeed.
Then, Anthony Pellicano, famed private investigator to the stars, without being named as the witness in question, issues a statement and denies he was the one who saw the murders. Pellicano occasionally works for Michael Jackson and one time performed a task for the Scientoligists, wherein he delivered information to the CBS show "Sixty Minutes" for an expose on Werner Erhard, the founder of EST, with whom Scientology has had a long-standing feud.
Simpson claims he is warned, before the murders, that he is in danger from racists, who resent his marriage and are outraged over large donations he makes to Jewish charities. A tight, underground group of neo-nazi or anti-Israeli terrorists could commit murder, plant evidence and maintain silence. He says he returned home the previous week to find his kitchen door open, and that three cars once tried to force his Bentley off the freeway in the early morning hours, though he ascribes the latter to carjackers.
The evening before the murders, he uses two tickets he has purchased to a $25,000 per-seat charity gala where the guests of honor are Leah Rabin, the First Lady of Israel, and Jehan Sadat, the widow of Anwar Sadat, the assassinated President of Egypt. Might this event set off a frame-up of O.J. by the above mentioned conspirators or by friends jealous of the money donated to charity.
Why would conspirators bother with an elaborate scheme, instead of simply murdering him? Is it a continuation of Charles Manson's Helter Skelter: an attempt to start a race war in Los Angeles? Recall that Manson had an acquaintance, named Shea, murdered, in part because he married an African-American, and the Manson Family left the sign of the Black Panthers at their crime scenes to shift blame to that group. Manson says, "...the white women with the half-black babies have been killing us..."
Manson also ran a murder school for his girls, giving each a Buck knife and demonstrating how they should slit the throats of the pigs, by yanking the head back by the hair and drawing the knife from ear to ear, exactly the method the prosecution suggests for the Bundy killings.
Manson predicted the race war will, "split whitey down the middle, between the hippie-liberals and all the uptight conservatives..." He did not foresee the hippie-liberals transmuting into anxious and vindictive yuppies before the millennium.
The riots following the verdict in the first trial of the police officers charged with beating Rodney King proved that igniting a race war is not difficult. Charlie, in a recent parole hearing, announced work on his internet web site. Does he harbor dreams of Helter Skelter, and does he have the means to manipulate or inspire others from his jail cell? One witness in the Manson trial, when asked if he feared Charlie, replied, "Well, not Mr. Manson himself, but the reach that he has, you know."
There is the matter of the disappearance, in February of 1995, of Philip Taylor Kramer, the former bass player for "Iron Butterfly." He is also an accomplished computer expert with a background in nuclear weaponry, guidance systems, motion detectors, data compression/decompression and fractal image technology. The last contact with Kramer is a 911 call, in which he says, "I'm going to kill myself. O.J. is innocent. They did it." At the time of Kramer's disappearance he worked for a multi-media company in which some of Michael Jackson's brothers were investors.
The best bet for grand intrigue involves a Washington VIP or foreign dignitary at Bundy at the time of the murders. A tabloid reports that someone is found hiding in a closet inside the condo after the murders. During a previous episode at Gretna Green, when Simpson broke the French doors and Nicole called 911, Kato Kaelin suspected Nicole had a visitor hiding in the bedroom. Following the murders at Bundy, a denim jacket is hanging over a chair when police arrive, but later disappears, and there is suspicion Fuhrman removed it. If a VIP is escorted from Bundy and traces of his or her visit eliminated, it accounts for a delay in officially reporting the murders, while local authorities wait for instructions from superiors.
The VIP scenario also answers why a supervisor orders all lead detectives away from Bundy and over to Rockingham. While the four are already aware of some of the bizarre circumstances at Bundy, they do not want to "officially" know the details. It also justifies the extraordinarily long delay in calling the coroner, and the peculiarity of sending criminalists first to collect evidence at Rockingham, rather than at the murder scene.
A high-level cover-up means all proof is untrustworthy. In the name of national security, broadly defined as not embarrassing folks in high places, phone records are easily altered, evidence fudged if not faked and perjury tolerated. Those who lie to Congress don't hesitate to deceive a local jury.
I'd speculate that technology exists to clone a small amount of blood from any genetic sample.
It is unfair to leave president Clinton out of a conspiracy, since accusers say his administration masterminds all recent unnatural disasters. Simpson plays golf with the President at Del Mar, California, three weeks before the murders. (The famous La Costa resort and spa is near Del Mar, as is the town of Rancho Santa Fe, the site of the Heaven's Gate suicides. Is this area now a Bermuda triangle of machination?)
Knowing what we now know about the President's fund raising habits, does Simpson make a political donation, and what is the quid pro quo? Only a week later, Simpson's orders his assistant, Cathy Randa, to purchase the cheap disguise. Believers in the Vince Foster, Ron Brown, TWA flight 800, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City and Mena conspiracies can accept this idea. The Simpson affair pushes Whitewater off the front page for months.
The CIA and the Rand Institute, on June 13th, issue a scathing indictment of Beijing buying influence in American politics: this during the Nixon and Reagan administrations. Is it to the Clinton administration's advantage to push this continuing story out of the news? Coincidentally, the Oklahoma City bomb exploded on the very morning Gennifer Flowers released her book. Is such speculation far-fetched? Keep in mind that those who now constitute the "establishment" spent their college years defending Stalin's and Mao's mass murder of millions as necessary for the greater good.
While it's implausible that Fuhrman and the LAPD frame Simpson as defense lawyers maintain, the idea that authorities enhance, if not plant, evidence is less so. The famed FBI lab is recently caught fudging reports in the case against Timothy McVeigh to favor the prosecution, and Roger Martz, who testified in the Simpson trial, is reprimanded and demoted. A lab technician in the San Francisco police department is discovered falsifying results in 900 cases. The late comedian, Lenny Bruce, though he had heroin in his car, was still "framed" by a lazy LAPD detective who dropped a packet of heroin at Bruce's feet. The detective was later himself convicted of smuggling heroin into the country from Mexico. Recently, there are suggestions evidence was destroyed or tampered with in the case against Sirhan Sirhan, the assassin of Robert Kennedy. In a decision granting a new trial for Geronimo Pratt, a Black Panther convicted of murder in 1972, an appeals court judge lambasted the Los Angeles district attorney's office for suppressing evidence favorable to Pratt, including information that at the time of the murder the FBI had Pratt under surveillance in Oakland and knew he could not have committed the crime in Santa Monica.
A good indicator of a cover-up is the extent and vehemence of attacks on all who question the "official" story. There are now on the internet persons, possibly organized cults, perhaps even autoresponding, mock-bot engines, that denigrate individuals who disagree with the popular wisdom. The sameness of the responses, the childlike, new-age phrasing, the pedanticism, the personal aspersions, all indicate a primitive sort of artificial intelligence. Hackers recently uncloaked the president of a major Hollywood record company, or more likely his overworked and underpaid minions, posting over 7000 messages to various newsgroups on a variety of subjects.
The technique is particularly evident in discussions of the Simpson matter and the explosion of TWA flight 800. By comparison, comments on the JonBenet Ramsey murder, often veering to the unbelievably lewd, seldom generate such heated rejoinders. What terrible fate would befall the nation if the whole truth about these two affairs were known? As Marshall Mcluhan said in a 1977 TVO interview, "The literate man is a sucker for propaganda."
Jay Leno occasionally serves as a government disinformation agent, much as Walter Winchell did in his day. On the Tonight Show, old Pierre Salinger is mocked, with jokes so awesomely lame that audience response is sweetened with a laugh track, each time he questions official views on the TWA 800 crash. Leno takes particular pleasure savaging O.J. in his monologues, partially insuring the judgment against him in the civil trial.
There are nearly 100 books on the Simpson affair, many written by principal participants for extraordinarily large advances, yet except for a few tidbits to insure talk-show publicity, none reveal much beyond what was already presented publicly in the trials. The authors confine themselves to
biography and fingerpointing and strain to fill 300 pages. Were some of the sizable advances essentially disguised payoffs to insure silence?
Those who express outrage at The Butcher of Brentwood playing golf say their protest is aimed at a wealthy defendant buying his freedom. The killers of Marilyn Monroe weren't brought to justice. Claus von Bulow and John DeLorean walk free, and passels of unconvicted Kennedys wander our streets, yet none of these cases generate similar indignation. Simpson's footnote in history may be as the Jackie Robinson of the legal system; the first African-American rich enough to level the playing field in a court of law, or more correctly, tilt it in his favor. If he is poor, the government happily provides his defense. Then, fourteen years hence, the morally superior gather outside San Quentin for a candlelight vigil.
If culpable, Simpson's greater sin is his failure to confess and express remorse (even when tempted with a multi-million dollar bribe). As the anti-Simpsonites quaintly phrase it, "He is in denial," a high crime in times when malefactors appear on talk-shows to fess up and receive absolution from the host and applause from the audience. In recent years, only one other African-American man is so vilified by the media as Simpson, and that is Justice Clarence Thomas. Both are guilty of thumbing their noses at the liberal establishment.
Other random oddities:
Why does Philip Vanatter phone Marcia Clark for assistance in preparing the search warrant? He claims that although it isn't usual policy, he personally picks her as the prosecutor, and invites her to visit the crime scene and Rockingham that morning. Has she a personal interest in prosecuting the case? Does she know the victims? Some say she knew Simpson socially and visited Rockingham previously, but she denies this. Prior to the trial, on a salary of $96,000 per year, she is reputed to run notoriously high credit-card debts.
Clark's first husband, Gaby Horowitz, an Israeli, and a professional backgammon player, was shot and left paralyzed, under peculiar circumstances, by a minister in The Church of Scientology who later performed Clark's marriage to her second husband, Gordon Clark. Some claim that Gordon was a mid-level official in the Church of Scientology, while others dispute this, saying the official was another person of the same name, and that Marcia's second husband was merely an ordinary member.
Horowitz gambled at the same clubs frequented by Simpson and
undoubtedly knew him. Another nightclub operator, Brett Cantor, was murdered a year previous to the Bundy incident, in a manner nearly identical to the murders of Nicole and Ron Goldman. Nicole and her crowd frequented Cantor's club and Ron once worked for him. While this seemingly points to another murderer duplicating his or her work at Bundy, the anti-Simpson folk ask, "Where was O.J. the night Cantor was slashed?"
We know Manson was influenced by Scientology, though the church denies he was a member. He was also involved, in San Francisco, in The Process - Church of the Final Judgment. Both religions are offshoots of the Solar Lodge of the Ordis Tempis Orientis, in Pasadena. The Riverside lodge of the OTO tried to start a race war in Los Angeles, in the 1960s, by directing psychic energy towards the Watts area.
If this is premeditated murder, does Simpson go to Bundy armed only with a knife? He knows of Nicole's proclivity to party, plus her involvement with drugs, and might anticipate an encounter with armed guests. Nicole had a maid and Simpson claims not knowing her schedule. If that's true, he intends killing her too, should she be there. Interestingly, there is little mention of Nicole's maid, except in Cora Fischman's deposition and the Lange/Vanatter book.
Bill Chang, manager of the ice cream shop where Nicole stops with her children, tells police that Nicole is accompanied by an unidentified man. Later he says that the man is probably an independent customer. Shades of the McVeigh trial, where employees of the truck rental agency initially report McVeigh is with John Doe Number Two, and later decide the accomplice is an unrelated customer.
Footprints at Bundy show that the killer slowly and deliberately walks to the back gate, then returns to the bodies before leaving the property. Simpson was pigeon-toed and bowlegged in childhood, from rickets, and photos still show an unusual stance, though not so obvious to be called pigeon-toed. The bloody shoeprints at Bundy reveal no such pattern.
Simpson is meticulous in his attire; therefore, would he change clothes after the recital and commit a gaucherie by wearing expensive shoes and dress socks with sweats? The knit cap dropped at Bundy is far too small for Simpson. Even Chris Darden says it is stretched out of shape, almost deformed. Why would Simpson don an undersized cap? It isn't cold on a June evening, and O.J. breaks into a sweat when angry. It isn't much of a disguise either. At hand are the false goatee and mustache, if he wants to partially conceal his identity.
Nicole gives presents, including Aris Isotoner gloves, to other friends in their circle. Simpson also gives away clothing twice a year, once at Rockingham, and once at his apartment in New York, when he moves between coasts. Interestingly, in early 1994, he gives clothes to Fuhrman. No, not that Fuhrman; coincidentally, the concierge at his building in New York had the same name.
Whether the gloves do or do not fit in the courtroom demonstration in now a matter of faith, rather than fact. Some say the gloves shrunk from previous use in snow and rain, but if so, they are already undersized when Simpson puts them on to do murder. Now we have him with too small gloves and a too small cap. Are we to believe Simpson takes this odd opportunity to clean his closet of ill-fitting clothes and unwanted shoes? On the other hand, if someone is intent on framing him, why would they chose small gloves and cap?
Those convinced of his guilt say photos show him wearing the murder gloves and the murder shoes. That is not entirely correct. The photos show identical models of these items, which may or may not be the ones used. Another peculiarity: since Simpson denies owning Bruno Magli shoes, why doesn't he also deny owning Aris gloves?
There are lengthy and complicated disputes about the shoes and the photos of Simpson wearing them. None of the photos surfaced during the criminal trial, in spite of massive publicity. One of the more interesting points is whether the Bruno Magli, Lorenzo model, European size 46 shoes, correctly translate to a U.S. size twelve. Other shoe manufacturers express a European size 46 as a U.S. size eleven-and-one-third to eleven-and-one-half. If they are much smaller than a size twelve, Simpson would now be wearing too small gloves, with an undersized knit cap and shoes that are not only ugly-ass, but tight.
Kato says O.J. wore a dark blue or black sweatsuit that evening. Blue or black cotton fibers are found on the victims at the crime scene. It's likely that black or blue cotton fibers, transferred in the laundry, can be found on almost anybody's clothes. In the same vein, it's also likely many people have traces of blood in their bathroom drains from shaving or cuts.
Passersby at Bundy can't see the bodies from the sidewalk at night, but blood is running down the front walkway to the street and bloody pawprints are on the sidewalk, yet supposedly no one notes anything amiss for nearly two hours.
When a murderer butchers two victims in an expensive neighborhood, would police not search the immediate area, perhaps with helicopters or dogs, or at least warn residents to lock their doors, lest another Richard Ramirez is prowling? Here is another clue that authorities already know the circumstances of the killings.
There are two gates on the pathway behind the guest cottages. As Kato investigates the thumps he opens the first one, and leans the broken gate against a tree. Would Simpson, in a rush, bother closing a broken gate? No one finds blood on this gate, though blood is seen on an overhead wire running along the walkway, and on the wall near the air conditioner, yet no samples are preserved for analysis.
After hearing the thumps, Kato first discusses them in his phone call with Rachel, and delays before investigating. When he returns from the walkway, he sees Simpson on the lawn. If Simpson drops the glove, and is rushing to meet the limo, what is he doing during those minutes?
While loading luggage and looking for a flashlight, Kato does not see blood-drops in the foyer or the entryway at Rockingham, though he does not specifically look for them. However, would not both he and Simpson walk on and smear some of the drops? Fuhrman inspects Kato's boots, and sees no blood.In proclaiming Simpson's guilt, people say, "A trail of blood leads from his Bronco right to his front door." If he is dripping blood, the trail should run from the Bronco, up and down the walkway where he drops the glove, then to his front door.
The detectives go to Rockingham, and do not draw their weapons, even when searching the walkway, though they claim to enter with the thought there may be more bodies or a crime in progress. Again, this indicates they already know who committed the crime. If it is Simpson, how do they know they can arrest him peaceably? If they know of another murderer, they would take precautions. Did somebody, knowing Simpson was in Chicago, send all four to Rockingham, not to plant evidence, but to discover incriminating evidence previously placed by others?
If Simpson is not the prime suspect, and if police do not believe his arrest is imminent, why does Tom Lange, talking to Judi Brown, to inform her of her daughter's death, arrange for Sydney and Justin to be taken to the Brown's home?
As the detectives escort Kato and others from Rockingham, they pointedly tell them to avoid the blood drops at the front door. It makes more sense to take them out the back door, instead of through the evidence, unless the police purposely want independent witnesses corroborating the presence of blood drops at that time.
Lange takes the Reebok sneakers with red spots on them, that O.J. claims wearing the previous evening, but treats them cavalierly, carrying them unprotected and tossing them in his car, as if he knows they are not evidence. He says the soles do not match the bloody shoeprints at Bundy, but at this time how can he know there is not a second murderer?
Though the socks found in the bedroom at Rockingham show no visible blood, as several observers verify, police seize them as evidence. Why target bloodless socks? What about the bloodless suspenders on the bed? Dress socks and suspenders go together. Simpson supposedly wears sweats earlier, but after leaving Kato he could change to a tuxedo for a formal, evening murder. Other, more suspicious items, including wet laundry and an empty knife box are ignored.
Irwin Golden, deputy L.A. medical examiner, admits that he discarded the contents of Nicole's stomach -- which could have helped fix a more precise time of death. Was this negligence, or did the stomach contain evidence at odds with prosecution theories?
There is, finally, an irrefutable proof, one that does not depend on witnesses or evidence, that O.J. Simpson is innocent beyond all doubt. Would you, if you had committed a brutal double murder, then bought your acquittal, dare venture under the open sky waving metal rods in the air?
Quotes from Roman Polanski and Charles Manson are from "Helter
Skelter," by Vincent Bugliosi with Curt Gentry, published by W.W.
Norton and Company, Inc.
Return to: AfroCentric News Features
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1755
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
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O.K. Oprah redeemed herself. She's not an Uncle Tom anymore. Cynnique she did ask the question that you said she should've asked.. almost word for word actually. maybe I read your post wrong. And I don't have the time to re-read it because the commercial break is almost over.
Whooops! Gotta go! |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 102
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
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you guy's need to back up off of oprah.
we all know o-jizzle had something to do with ronny-g and the nicole being cut to pieces. after years have gone by i think it's messed up, but i still feel that it was something that needed to happen. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3826
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 04:50 pm: |
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Thanks for the update, Tonya. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4298
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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I ain't gone go as far and say O.J. didn't do it.
But I never quite understood how OJ could go from the leisurely existent of ex-great football star and popular media personality to expert, coldblooded assassin.
Dude allegedly killed 2 people - decapitates the mother of his CHILDREN - with his HANDS and narily have a scratch on him?
I mean, I guess it's POSSIBLE O.J. is capable of that. But shouldn't there been SOME indication of such prior to his having done this dastardly deed? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3828
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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Don't judge OJ by yourself, ABM. It has been said that OJ is a classic example of a "psychopathic" killer. These types are suave, personable, charismatic and amoral - ala serial killer Ted Bundy. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4306
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:24 am: |
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Cynique,
That could be the case. But OJ's been a public figure for such a long time. So it seems to me that SOME evidence of his being a psychopath would have manifested prior to his doing Nicole and Goldman.
I mean, for him be what you allude to he'd have to not only be an efficient killer, but he'd also have to have the espionage skills of Deep Throat.
You think OJ's killed prior and/or subsequent to the murders he was tried for? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 861
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 08:56 am: |
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No, ABM. Plenty of men with a long history of domestic aggression and violence end up brutally murdering their wives, girlfriends, and exes. Most of them just are not ex-football greats.
It makes me sad to see that there is still so much mythology and woman-blaming going on in our communities around domestic violence. (Some comments on a previous thread that I was too sad to respond to.)
Unfortunately, our women and children are paying. Often with their lives.
I cheered co cheers for Mr. Simpson. His "victory" represents not a damn thing for brothers elsewhere being wrongly accused. The "look on White people's faces" was not enough to compensate for the damage that this collective cheering did for our communities:
If you are male--especially male and *blank* (good looking, famous, powerful, charismatic, wealthy)--you are worth more than if you are female. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3829
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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Bravo, Yvette. You are the conscience of this board, always taking the higher ground and always concerned about the abused and less fortunate. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3830
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 09:28 am: |
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ABM, all psychopaths are not murderers or serial killers but they are often the person you would least suspect in a homocide because they are charming, glib liars. And as Yvette states, like a lot of athletes who participate in aggressive sports, OJ did have a history of domestic violence. I don't want to get in a debate about OJ, but you have stated the case for the defense. The prosecution laid out an equally plausible case which pointed to him being guilty. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4309
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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Ladies,
Again. I'm NOT going to argue OJ's innocence. Because the blood evidence ALONE seemed quite inculpatory to me.
But I think, perhaps, we're confusing arguments here.
My point is not so much whether OJ is evil enuff to have done what he did. Perhaps he was every bit the batter that's been reported and alluded to(though I don't believe every batter is a necessarily a killer).
My point is the style and relative proficiency with which he allegedly committed the murders plus OJ's history and fame bespeaks of a fairly unique kind of killer.
I think I would have been much more convinced of his guilt if he'd simply shot Nicole and Goldman to death. But to kill them with his hands, to DECAPITATE a woman who bore his children, and yet narily have a scratch on him, I think, requires a combination of skill, malice and fury that is fairly UNIQUE...even for self-deluded, color-struct, bootlin' ex-superstar jock like OJ.
Cynique,
Not to quibble over wording. But you sure you're not referring to a "sociopath", not a "psychopath"? Those traits are similar and both can reside within a person, but they are not wholly the same. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3833
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
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The sociopath engages in anti-social-behavior and tends to be either withdrawn or aggressive. The psychopath is characterized by his attractive appearance, and his extroverted personality which is replete and the charm and magnetism that masks a deceptive cunningness. And acutally an impassioned OJ did a botched job of murdering 2 people leaving all kind of clues and blood everywhere and a barking dog. And the defense never proved that he didn't have time to do everything the prosecution said he did. Looks like we're debating the issue after all. LOL |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Abm:
What did you think of the fact that the blood evidence contained traces of the substance that was added to the blood sample they took from him to preserve it and that about 25% of it was gone.
I know, you are going to say it evaporated even though Dumbo Darden and the Prosecutor's office never advanced that theory.
Let's face it--White folks told y'all OJ did it and that's good enough for you.
I hope you understand why everbody won't listen to you if you ever find yourselves in similar circumstances. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4313
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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Cynique & Chris,
Okay. I've spoke my peace.
I think I'll let this...
...rest, for now. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3836
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 01:03 pm: |
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The husband is always the first suspect in a wife's murder, chrishayden. OJ's behavior was erratic and he was planning to leave the country. His guilt or innocence ain't no big thing to me. But as usual, you have to play the race card when someone doesn't agree with you. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 112
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 02:07 pm: |
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abm
lol... that was pretty good. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1853
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 05:06 pm: |
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No, Cynique. The white folks told you he did it and you know what is good for you so that's what you say-- |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3851
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 09:40 pm: |
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If you had been standing there, watching OJ slit Nicole's throat, her blood splattering in your face, you would still say OJ was innocent, chrishayden; being in denial is second nature to you because you cannot bring yourself to think that a black man is ever wrong when it comes to dealing with THE WHITE MAN. So keep on thinking what it makes you comfortable to believe. Allowing myself to think that OJ was guilty didn't blow my mind or shatter my world. And now as far as I am concerned, Simpson and his Dream Team beat the rap. Good for them. That's what having one's day in court is all about. See how easy that was? Dealing with reality is something you ought to try once in a while, chrissy-boy. (BTW, I am just now posting this because I was "locked" out of the thread.) |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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Here's the real deal, listen closely:
Everyone didn't think OJ "did it." Did most think he had some involvement in the murders? Of course. But that's not the case the prosecution presented. The prosecution did not assert that Simpson hired a crew of maniacs to slit his wife's throat, hiding in the bushes while watching the deed and walking over to the corpses to make sure "the bitch was dead" (which would explain his footprints). The prosecution did not present such a theory.
Rather, the lazy, inept, racist prosecutors chose not to do their jobs, instead attempting to rely on racist assumptions to produce a guilty verdict: the meme of the beast-like, superhuman black man who even out of shape and over the hill managed to single-handedly stab two younger, fitter people to death.
That was what was on trial here: the racism of the criminal justice system, and that is what was soundly rejected by the African American community and Simpson jurors. The prosecution's case defied any semblance of common sense. That less rich, well-known blacks have been convicted on such theories is an indictment of our system.
Present a real argument, please. Despite what you might think, black people are not stupid. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3934
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 04:10 pm: |
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Ahhh, a conspiracy buff, extraordinaire. Yet another voice from the "you-can't-fool me" school of thought. How intriguing the rumors and theories are. And how the public loves intrigue. |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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This is not intrigue, Cynique. This is good lawyering versus poor lawyering. Every murder case is a "conspiracy theory." The prosecutor's JOB is to present a coherent, plausible theory to the jury which falls within the realm of reality, especially in a case built upon circumstantial evidence. The Simpson prosecutors presented a highly implausible theory and lost the case as a result. You don't know what you are talking about. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3937
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 05:57 pm: |
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There were a lot of missteps committed by the prosecution and the biggest one was the jury selection. And are you forgetting that OJ was convicted in the civil trial? I think OJ did it but I didn't have a problem with his being found not guilty because it was "payback time"; poetic justice, if you will. And don't be too sure that I don't know what I am talking about when I say this was an intriguing case, and a conspiracy theorist's dream. I heard at least 5 different scenarios as to what really happened. |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 06:05 pm: |
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Again, Cynique, you don't know what you are talking about. The standard of guilt in any civil trial is whether it is more likely than not that the defendant bears some measure of responsibility for the actions giving rise to the suit. The standard of guilt in a criminal trial is necessarily much, much more stringent. The standard is whether it is clear, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the defendant did in fact commit the crime(s) in the manner which the prosecution described. In the Simpon case, the prosecution advanced a near ludicrous theory for the murders. That is why they lost. There's not much left to discuss. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3939
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 06:10 pm: |
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So why did OJ lose the civil case? And do all of these grandiose principles appy to those who are not celebs and don't have a dream team of lawyers?? |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 06:55 pm: |
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I'll say it again: Simpson lost the civil case because the plaintiffs were able to prove that it was more likely than not that he had something to do with the deaths of his wife and her lover. Were that the standard in a criminal trial, he would have lost that one as well. However, as I just described to you, the prosecution has a much, much tougher burden in the criminal trial in that they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime happened as they described it.
These "grandiose" principles should apply in theory to every criminal trial, but in practice, several factors tend to undercut justice: incompetent defense counsel; racist juries.
I think you need to read more about the case, the law, and how the law generally interacts with black people before you can advance any sort of reasoned and intelligent analysis of these events. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3946
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Whatever you say, babe. It ain't that serious to me. But it sounds like it is somethng that has been festering in your system for the past 10 years. Gotta go. |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 07:10 am: |
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Cynique, I will probably avoid replying to your posts in the future because you are not an honest debater. Because you were unable to back up some of your obviously wrong assertions, you now resort to quipping that this issue "ain't that serious" as if that is an excuse for your ignorant statements. Blacks in the criminal justice system is a topic that I take extremely seriously and will "fester in my system" so long as there is injustice. Sadly, that is a quality which you think should be ridiculed and dismissed. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3949
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 08:58 am: |
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Oh get over yourself, black wisdom. You were the one who took the issue and ran. All I said in my first post was that this was an intriguing case that was fodder for conspiracy buffs and you got on your soap box, telling me I didn't know what I was talking about, pontificating with all your legal expertise. Since I am not a lawyer and since I am not preoccupied with the guilt or innocence of OJ why would I continue to debate you? Are you miffed because I didn't pay homage to you by groveling and begging your forginance for making a comment that apparently offended you? Puleeze. |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 02:13 pm: |
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Cynique said:
"Oh get over yourself, black wisdom. You were the one who took the issue and ran. All I said in my first post was that this was an intriguing case that was fodder for conspiracy buffs and you got on your soap box, telling me I didn't know what I was talking about, pontificating with all your legal expertise. Since I am not a lawyer and since I am not preoccupied with the guilt or innocence of OJ why would I continue to debate you? Are you miffed because I didn't pay homage to you by groveling and begging your forginance for making a comment that apparently offended you? Puleeze."
Wisdom says:
You continued to debate me until it became clear that my position was correct; yours wrong. Rather than conceding this, you went the route of attempting to distort and downplay your role in the debate, even accusing me of some sort of "homage"-seeking and other such nonsense. Learn how to lose a debate gracefully; you never know what kind of knowledge you can pick up from other people by arguing with them in good faith. I don't know you; you don't know me. Let's quit the personal attacks and stick to the valid and important subjects. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3953
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 02:29 pm: |
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Tell me black wisdom, what claims did I make that I had to back up???? I mostly asked questions, which you answered. Did you want me to cite the 5 examples of the theories I had heard, and give you a definition of the word "intrigue." You could learn how to make a graceful exit, yourself. |
Black_wisdom_
Newbie Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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Cynique, you officially have the last word on this. Peace out. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1864
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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Youz a bad muthafucka, Blackwisdom! Gotta hand it to you, Bro. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4357
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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Cynique,
"Sometimes the other guy's just better. And you gottah get your things...and go home."
--- NBA coach Pat Riley after his team had lost ANOTHER playoff series to the 6-time NBA Championship Chicago Bulls |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3979
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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Well, ABM, I did realize that I was out of my element which is why I signed off the debate. I did not continue the argument; this black wisdom character did. I never really challenged anything he/she said except that there are, indeed, conspiracy theories out there. You seem to be overlooking the fact this character conceded the last word to me because he/she knew that I didn't have to back up any claims because I didn't make any. |
Black_wisdom_
Veteran Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 63
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 08:29 pm: |
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Well, ABM, I did realize that I was out of my element which is why I signed off the debate. I did not continue the argument; this black wisdom character did. I never really challenged anything he/she said except that there are, indeed, conspiracy theories out there. You seem to be overlooking the fact this character conceded the last word to me because he/she knew that I didn't have to back up any claims because I didn't make any.
You fucking liar. Your first bs claim was that the "biggest" error the prosecution made was in jury selection. Utter crap. The fatal flaw in their case was the theory they presented, and very few juries would have bought it in the context of the superlatively competent defense team Simpson was able to afford. Your next bullshit claim was that because Simpson lost the civil trial, that this has some sort of probative weight on the merits of the prosecution's criminal case. You lost that argument, fair and square.
You are such a weasel. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1476
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
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You fucking liar.
You are such a weasel.
LOL.
Well, congrats! 
You've Pegged Cynique in no time.
That's exactly what she is! LOL
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3980
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 09:50 pm: |
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Kola, you are pathetic. You are so insanely jealous of anyone who converses with ABM, that you lose all sense of reason and reality. Somewhere down the line, if you don't get your psychosis under control, you are going to ruin your career. You know this. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 954
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:37 am: |
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Kola,
Seriously. I'm curious to know. In doing a talk show or public appearnace/speaking engagement, have you ever be as forthcoming with your language and content as you are on this forum? If so, how did the interviewer or audience react?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3985
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Also I wonder why this black wisdom "entity" didn't challenge me the first time around instead of giving me "the last word". Suddenly, when a benign AMB enters the discussion, "it" attacks and distorts the comment I made about jury selection being a factor when "it" did eventually remark that juries can be a factor in a verdict. Kola Boof is a bad joke. No wonder Thomas left her.
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Black_wisdom_
Veteran Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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Also I wonder why this black wisdom "entity" didn't challenge me the first time around instead of giving me "the last word".
I attacked you after you fucking trolled my "I can't take it thread," you jerk.
Suddenly, when a benign AMB enters the discussion, "it" attacks and distorts the comment I made about jury selection being a factor when "it" did eventually remark that juries can be a factor in a verdict.
You didn't say that jury selection was "a factor." You stated that the Simpson prosecution made many mistakes, the "biggest" one being the selection of the jury (but, incredibly, not the crazy theory that the prosecution advanced). I stated later that in general, justice for black people can be undercut by inept defense counsel and racist juries. You understand this; you're a smart cookie. But you're a liar.
Kola Boof is a bad joke. No wonder Thomas left her.
And this relates to my comment, how? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1487
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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Thomas left me Cynique?
Then why did he come back?
And why are we having an affair?
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3987
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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I repeat, black entity, you had an opportunity to say all of this before you gave me the "last point". Go crawl back up into Kola's deformed twat so she can fantasize that you are ABM's dick. LMAO. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 02:04 pm: |
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Moonsigns,
I always say the exact same things in my interviews, public appearances that I say here.
You should have heard me on Alvin Jones's show---where he disclosed that his wife is white and we did a whole 2 1/2 hours about Black men's Colorism (I had only been scheduled for a 24 minute interview)....and ALL of the callers agreed with me and sided with me. And even Alvin conceded most of my points.
The only difference away from this board is---I am a softspoken person with a very feminine demeanor, as you noted in surprise, which can't be conveyed through my posts on this board, where people ASSUME I am "hard" and attach their own imagination to the Tone of my posts.
On the radio or in public....people are usually caught off guard by my frankness, and because I tend to appear in black venues exclusively, there is MOSTLY praise (that I'm willing to raise these issues), embarrassment, agreement, guilt and support for what I have to say.
Black men...to my shock...are the MOST supportive (to my face) of what I have to say and tend to try and "reassure" me that they want the same changes I want.
AND...if you ever read my "autobiography", MOON....you be stunned to discover that most of "philosophy" and what I have to say
...comes directly from my Black American father, my Uncles, my idol Malcolm X and my White Egyptian father.
I basically reiterate what they have trained me to believe and say.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1489
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 02:06 pm: |
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Cynique---you wish you had my twat.
You'd be a lot less crabby....and you'd have a better man.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3988
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 02:17 pm: |
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Well I guess you know all about crabs, Kola, since you probably caught them when an infested Thomas came crawling back to you. ROTFLOL If only having a deformed twat would cure your dysfunctional manipulativeness. Wishful thinking. C'est La Vie. |
Black_wisdom_
Veteran Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 05:36 pm: |
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I repeat, black entity, you had an opportunity to say all of this before you gave me the "last point". Go crawl back up into Kola's deformed twat so she can fantasize that you are ABM's dick. LMAO.
You vulgar bitch. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3989
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 06:37 pm: |
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You phony paranoid schzophrenic. |
Black_wisdom_
Veteran Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:08 pm: |
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You phony paranoid schzophrenic.
Revolting. You have more than four decades on me, where is the wisdom and knowledge that was supposed to go along with that? You a the fucking nightmare of the black community: the coon who seeks to diminish, deflate, and harm other blacks at every turn. Again, you should be utterly ashamed. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:12 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom speaking to Cynique:
You are the fucking nightmare of the black community: the coon who seeks to diminish, deflate, and harm other blacks at every turn. Again
MY GOD!!! You have Cynique pegged so accurately it's scary.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Because nothing gets her an orgasm quicker
than seeing a black person dragged from
the back of a speeding car--especially if
it's a dark skinned black female.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3990
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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Well, if ain't kola and her evil twin black stupidity back in tandem. Yada, Yada, Yada. The only way you can distract from your own insanity, Kola, is to lie and rant about me. So knock yourself out. I don't how many times I have tell you that you and your alter egos are the last people in the world whose opinions I care about. Just take your meds and stop wasting your time and energy. Save your strength to hookwink all of the guillible people who can't see through you. You are no longer just pitiful but are comical to boot. Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn. |
Black_wisdom_
Veteran Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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Well, if ain't kola and her evil twin black stupidity back in tandem. Yada, Yada, Yada...Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
"If you're tired, then go take a nap."-EPMD
Cynique, if you are too bored to participate meaningfully, then stop responding to my shit. Go sit down. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 878
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
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{{{Me....skipping over all the "dozens" posts...getting back to the topic}}}
OK, I have a question I would like to ask. Let me first say that I accept the fact that folks are going to disagree--and disagree deeply--about the OJ verdicts. I accept that. At this point I do not attempt to change someone's mind who believes other than I do about this topic.
But one thing I understand about some people's support of the "not guilty" verdict is that it somehow makes up for all the Black men who have been wrongly accused by the criminal justice system. That, I acknowledge as fact: Many Black men (AND women, I might add--but few are excited to talk about our Black women caught up in the criminal justice system...) are in prison because they were Black and convenient for a given charge.
SO. Has the OJ Simpson verdict done anything to help change this situation? I do not mean: has it benefitted him personally. Nor do I mean: has it made us feel a personal sense of vindication. But has it helped individual Black men who have been wrongly accused, prosecuted, or sentenced?
If so, how?
Note, that I ask this mainly of the folks who have this as their primary support for the "not guilty" verdict. If your primary support for the verdict is that Mr. SImpson is, in fact, absolutely not guilty then perhaps this question does not apply.
An additional note: I do not pose this question to try to pick a fight with anyone. I honestly am curious about people's views.
Looking forward to the discussion,
Best,
Yvette |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:53 pm: |
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Girl, O.J.'s verdict hasn't done shit for nobody but
O.J.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:53 pm: |
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Put that right with Halle's Oscar, although in her case, I was glad she won.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4008
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 06:18 pm: |
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Only for you, Yvette, will I reiterate my position on this subject, and yes, I plead guilty to thinking that there was some kind of a perverse justice in a sell-out like OJ being found not guilty of murdering a white woman. And, of course, my reason for feeling this way has to do with the injustices innocent lynch vicims have been subjected to down through history. My gut feeling was that OJ Simpson was guilty. Period. And I have no intentions of defending my position. This case intensified the racial polarization in this country and did little to change how the court system dispenses justice to poor black defendants. Not only that, the police still profile those who are guilty of "driving while black". |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 962
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 08:01 pm: |
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Kola,
Again, serious quesiton. You wrote that, to your "shock", black men are the "MOST" supportive ("to your face") of your "philosphy". Do you ever think or feel that some people, both black men and black women, will agree with you "to your face" because they simply want to avoid conflict. At this point, it seems that actions speak louder than words.
Your thoughts, please.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4362
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 08:08 pm: |
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'Vette,
The blessing of the OJ Simpson trial is it provided the entire country with an open, comprehensive case study of the inner workings and flaws of the criminal justice system, race/racism, fame, class, etc.
And I think the OJ trial, unintentionally, helped via the ascendancy of DNA evidence lead to the exoneration of MANY innocent men, some of whom had been on Death Row.
So, in an ironically perverse way/degree, we all - Blacks, Whites...AMERICANS - owe A LOT to OJ. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1513
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 08:22 pm: |
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Kola,
Again, serious quesiton. You wrote that, to your "shock", black men are the "MOST" supportive ("to your face") of your "philosphy". Do you ever think or feel that some people, both black men and black women, will agree with you "to your face" because they simply want to avoid conflict. At this point, it seems that actions speak louder than words.
Oh absolutely, Moonsigns.
As well...many of the men who gather around me are "Afrocentric" types. Many are like my "hubby".
The Kobe Bryant-O.J. types don't come to see Kola Boof. So that's a factor, too.
And then you have the men like ABM, who basically agree with most of my ideas and philosophies--intellectually and "strategically"---but DO voice their opinions more honestly and give me suggestions and are not necessarily committed to my mantra.
But respect it.
It helps greatly that I'm turned on by dominant men, am with a dominant man and am very vulnerable and attractive.
STILL, at the end of the day...it should be noted that much of what I have to say is simply distilled through me and is passed TO ME from black men themselves.
And Moonsigns....don't think that myself and other black women here don't notice the emotion you invest in saying "action speaks louder than words".
We know what white women like you TRULY WISH FOR US, and that's why I never accord you the pretentious Cheer-i-O that some black women would.
You could give a shit about our people as a people. Your investment is for yourself and for the White world's edict that we must give up being "black" and adhere to a Neutrality that makes whites more comfortable. That watered down niggerdom I talk about.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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If Moonsigns is secure in her relationship with her man, why is she so worried about what black women have to say or how black men respond to it...? Why so paranoid, so insecure...? I'm willing to bank that Black women didn't/don't want her man (not the other way around), and that's partly why he ended up with her. Otherwise, like I said, why so paranoid...? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 879
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 08:56 am: |
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ABM:
My husband has a favorite sports talk show where they play this game "buy or sell"--So I'm gonna play that w/your response! LOL!
The blessing of the OJ Simpson trial is it provided the entire country with an open, comprehensive case study of the inner workings and flaws of the criminal justice system, race/racism, fame, class, etc.
I'm buying this. Yes, part of the lagacy of the trials for me is that it did show these flaws--and proved that Blacks have, indeed, arrived--that is, IF you are wealthy enough, famous enough, etc. I do not see us, however, using this as an opportunity to fix the flaws for the vast majority still in the system, unfortunately. So, actually in answer to my original question, I probably would have to sell this statement...
And I think the OJ trial, unintentionally, helped via the ascendancy of DNA evidence lead to the exoneration of MANY innocent men, some of whom had been on Death Row.
I'll buy this, too--to a point. Certainly the trial helped expose the lay public to DNA evidence used in a criminal trial. But I still question if the verdict did anything to help.
Now, since the jury apparently dismissed this evidence or was suspicious of it or whatever, perhaps the verdict did help prosecutors (and defense attorneys) learn to present the evidence in more accessible ways. In fact I heard a forensic scientist type person claiming exactly that on NPR a while back.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 880
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:00 am: |
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Cynique, I hear you. (And thanks for reiterating your position! LOL)
DOn't throw your shoe at me, but you and Kola seem to agree that the criminal trial verdict did little for actual everyday Blacks in the criminal justice system. I tend to agree. But I am still open to hearing more from folks who believe otherwise. I really am curious about this--and have conversations with people (including in my own extended family)... |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 963
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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Kola:
"Many of the men who gather around me are "Afrocentric" types."
Moonsigns:
That's understandable.
Kola:
"And then you have men like ABM, who basically agree with most of my ideas and philosophies--intellectually and "strategically"---but DO voice their opinions more honestly and give me suggestions and are not necessarily committed to my mantra......But respect it."
Moonsigns:
I think a lot of black men are "like" Abm.
Kola:
"And Moonsigns....don't think that myself and other black women here don't notice the emotion you invest in saying "action speaks louder than words".
Moonsigns:
There was no "emotion" attached to it because, we have differing views on male/female relationships--that have nothing to do with "color". You want to make it a "color" issue when it's not. I'm simply making a comment based on observation of what you "say" and the reality of the world around us.
Kola:
"We know what white women like you TRULY WISH FOR US."
Moonsigns:
If ALL black women aren't alike, Kola, you must accept that all white women aren't, either. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite--which is possible. Nevertheless, you only have to look in your own heart to discover what a white woman "LIKE ME" (LMAO!) "truly wishes". I want, LIKE YOU, to just "be" as I am. I want my husband to "be" just as he is. I want my children to "be"--just as they are. I want you and your children to "be" just as you are. I "truly wish" for all to peacefully and respectfully "be". It may be reality, but it is my "wish"--regardless of whether you believe it to be true or not.
Kola, your inability to look for the good in other people is only to your disadvantage.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 964
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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On the topic of this thread, I don't think the O.J. verdicts changed a thing.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4367
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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'Vette,
I agree the results of the OJ did not validate DNA testing. But the emphasis on the testing popularized it to such a degree that it's now being REGULARLY used for everything from overturning Death Row convictions to discern baby daddies.
I think you would agree that prior to the OJ trial, MOST Americans had hardly any idea what DNA is, much less whether/how it can be used to exculputate or convict someone. After the OJ, I doubt most INNOCENT foks who've been indicted would tolerate DNA testing from being excluded from their prosecution.
I think there most CERTAINLY is a link between the popularity of DNA testing and the recent overturning of Death Row convictions. THAT ALONE, makes the OJ trial worth all the fuss. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4010
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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At some point I do feel that the victims are being forgotten in all of this "fuss" about DNA. Hopefully, the families of Nicole and Ron can find consolation by convincing themselves that their loved ones died so that others would one day be set free. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4372
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:14 am: |
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Cynique,
@ About 20,000 Americans are murdered annually
@ 1.3 million abortions occur every year
@ And there are 100,000's of people (including MANY children) who've been reported as missing who've never been found.
How much time do most of us spend fretting over THOSE foks? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4017
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:57 am: |
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I am sure the families of all these victims are fretting about them. Which is the point I was making, ABM. In Illinois and other places, states are even starting to set up financial reimbursment funds for the surviving families of murder victims who are often overshadowed by the perpetrators in sensational cases. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 889
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 09:23 am: |
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Not only that, but the children and other family members of the perpetrators. Much of the rise in the US prison population is due--not to murders or other violent crime--but to our drug policy. (We're number 1: We lead the world in lockin' up folks!!!) Many of those suffering are children... Many of these children end up in the prison system themselves eventually... Clearly something is wrong and clearly more of us need to be concerned with it.
And, ABM, I just know you weren't trying to start an abortion debate up in here! LOL |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4376
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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Cynique,
We all will die. Every single one of us.
And the VAST majority of us who die will do so without hardly anybody giving a ratsfatpatootie about us.
So although I'm sad for the Brown's and Goldman's, at least people will know, remember and honor Nicole and Rob in a way that is unique and special.
And THAT's worth far more than whatever they can sue O.J. for.
Yvette,
I know. Naughty, naughty me.
Hahahahaha!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4025
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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So, ABM, why did you have a problem with my original statement? Isn't what I said about their deaths a unique way for family and friends to remember Nicole and Ron?????? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4388
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:49 pm: |
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Cynique,
I don't think I have a problem with Nicole and Ron being honored. My point is I think, compared to the VAST majority of those who die, they have been uniquely and especially remembered/honored. I mean, isn't much of today's sentiments/empathy for battered women borne from Nicole having been abused by OJ? I think there's even a national foundation created for that in her honor. |
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