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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 12:27 am: | 
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Not even Desperate Housewives can escape the scrutiny. Read on...
http://forums.go.com/abc/primetime/desperatehousewives/thread?threadID=629816&fo rumStart=30
http://forums.go.com/abc/primetime/desperatehousewives/thread?threadID=631332&fo rumStart=0
http://forums.go.com/abc/primetime/desperatehousewives/thread?threadID=630025&fo rumStart=0 |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:15 am: |
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Prime time television is for white folks. Furthermore it is for stupid white folks who are half drunk, falling off to sleep, or trying to forget the lousy time they had at work or their empty meaningless lives.
Black women--Black men, white men, white women, latinoes and latinas for that matter--will never be ought but cardboard stereotypes and fools. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2888
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:52 am: |
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Prime time TV is for anybody looking for escapism in the form of entertainment or involvment. All the prime time shows on the 3 major networks have their token ethnic characters designed to appease a broad audience, which they do. Black folks watch more TV than any other target group, and when they are not watching the UPN channel with its almost exclusive line-up of black shows depicting African Americans in realistic settings, they are glued to their sets watching everything from soap operas to Joe Brown and other TV judges, to wrestling smack downs. This is what surveys and polls have shown. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 146
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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"Black folks watch more TV than any other target group"
Too much TV? Not enough library time? Not enough reading time? Not enough scholarly time? Not enough "smart" time?
"exclusive line-up of black shows depicting African Americans in realistic settings"
Some might beg to differ. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2890
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 01:35 pm: |
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Well, at least the blacks are the stars of the shows, and the roles they play are as realistic as those played by their white counterparts. This is, after all, the ficticious world of TV. The settings of the shows run the gamut from ghetto to condo. And among the cast of "Girlfriends", for instance, the skin color also runs the gamut from dark to light. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1564
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 01:41 pm: |
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Yeah. At least some black actors and actresses are getting paychecks.
It is a medium that has featured talking horses, mothers reincarnated as model t fords, martians living over the garage, LA detectives who arrive at work in Rolls Royces. And these are examples of adult prime time programming ("Mr. Ed", "My Mother the Car", "My Favorite Martian", "Burke's Law")
It is a wasteland. It is chewing gum for the mind. It has to be or the great unwashed will not watch it.
I watch the news, movies,and sports events.
Anybody watching prime time tv for realistic portrayals of ANYTHING is wasting his or her time. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2892
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:29 pm: |
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As I said, TV is primarly escapism. And a lot of what is shown are sit-coms. These shows make people laugh and aren't meant to be taken seriously. A lot more are Cop shows and medical dramas; all of which are mini-movies. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 736
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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The complainer on the thread is STILL right.
Almost EVERY white housewife or mother on t.v. is portrayed as Slim, Attractive, Cheerful and has a multi-dimensional personality.
Notice the t.v. commercial white mom or the sitcom white mom----they look like former models and are uniformally thin and attractive----DESPITE the fact that half the White Women in America look more like Ricki Lake or the Fat Lady from "The Practice" and are chubby and or homely.
Notice the RANGE of personalities in White Women that are portrayed on t.v.----almost every kind of woman is shown in a WHITE WOMAN, thereby making her Fully HUMAN and representative of womanhood itself.
Black women (who LOOK black) are more often than not portrayed as FAT angry shrews or no-nonsense asexual bosses or wise church Mammys....or OLD WOMEN (well beyond child bearing age) or little girls.
Naomi Campbell is never hired to play the black mother fetching her children from school.
Kenya Moore is never allowed to play the caring, sexy, sensitive intelligent black wife (If she was, then black males would begin to fantasize about having black wives in her image-----is there anybody here INTELLIGENT enough to see that?).
If the script calls for a "pretty" black woman---then 90% of the time, a High Yellow woman is cast.
On the t.v. show "Girlfriends"....despite the range in color...the darkest of the 4 women is still portrayed as a golddigger/whore/bad mother and conniving person. Just as on the show "Living Single", the darkest one (Max) who still looked African was portrayed as materialistic, all-business, not totally to be trusted. The producers of BOTH these shows are colorstruck barely brown women, of course.
Whether something is MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY has NO MERIT whatsoever.
People ingest and believe in the stereotypes that are presented to them. All of these images of Black women do promote negative, hateful feelings towards Black women....and more so from the Black community itself as it looks for a "scapegoat" to destroy in its quest to attain Whiteness and Acceptance.
The woman complaining was RIGHT, but didn't know how to express her point.
This is a society where EVERYONE---of all races----scape goats the Black female and despises her....because it's her who gives birth to Black men.
The purpose of this society is to erase the black female so that black people themselves are eventually erased from the landscape---but no one will stand up and fight for our mother's image.
When black men were routinely shown as gangbangers, criminals and wife beaters on t.v.----the whole community rose up against it, Jesse Jackson called boycotts.
But for our mother's image--we don't give a shit.
Which is why we're at the bottom in the first place.
A nation cannot rise above its mother.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1567
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:06 pm: |
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So what are you going to do? Nothing but run up your bloodpressure is what. Complain and watch them screw with black folks just like they always did because they ain't that 18-30 year old white male demographic that they want to attract and that's the bottom line.
Why would a young white male be interested in seeing correct images of black people, particularly in a climate where a man can get on tv and talk about aborting all Black babies and he still got a job when the smoke clears.
Further there seems to be no shortage of black women who don't seem to give a damn about going on tv and doing this. Why have you given them a pass?
Folks we are straining at gnats and swallowing camels. Thousands of black people just got flooded out of their homes in New Orleans and have been told they are never going to be allowed to go back. 2 million folks are in jail and half of them are black. The crack trade is part of the economy in the black inner cities.
Every night you see black men in handcuffs on the news and mugshots splashed all over the front.
We been protesting that. Ain't a thing changed.
Tonite, at midnite a black man is going to die in the death chamber in Missouri for the rape and murder of two white women based only on a confession that was probably coerced and flawed testimony of a co defendant and a man who was an early suspect in the case.
A large and influential portion of our society has announced its plans to conquer the world and they are going to use your tax money, your babies and toss you in jail if you look cockeyed at it.
Frankly, what is being shown on tv is way down the list of things to get upset about. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 687
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:12 pm: |
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(Frankly, what is being shown on tv is way down the list of things to get upset about.)
Because it's racism towards black women, not black men... right, Chris? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 738
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:16 pm: |
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But that's just it Chris.
Black people watch more T.V. than any other people in this country.
Television could be used to make people AWARE of all the things you just mentioned.
At this moment....Television is used to PROMOTE Hip Hop culture.
And to promote colorism and the degradation of black women.
You're totally wrong in this thread----not to mention you haven't once addressed the Woman's Initial Complaint, which had nothing to do with all the issues you raised.
The fact is...
NOTHING in this society has more impact on the people in it than the IMAGES that are shown on television.
The people are so busy internalizing the images on T.V. Chris----that they haven't got time to think about all the stuff you raised.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |
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If we address the issues I raise we don't even have to get to the idea of trying to control what image is on TV, which, until you control all the money that buys those images is a waste.
Television is not for the purposes of making anybody aware. Television is for mind control just like in 1984. Anybody who stares at it is getting his head filled with crap.
Black people watch more tv? They also eat more unhealthy food. Black people smoke crack too. Black people engage in risky sexual practices. Black people abuse their spouses and significant others and children. You don't find a good way to do these things. You stop.
There ain't no good way or safe way to take poison. You think it is an accident that these images are on there? They are there on purpose.
And there is nothing black people can or will do about it. They are happy to jump up on Jerry Springer or when the newsman shoves a camera in their face.
Let me ask you. Could they put these images on if they didn't have black actors and directors and cameramen and writers and producers who weren't eager and willing to do it?
They shouldn't be passively ingesting anything that sends out images they cannot control.
That is what black people need to do. Fess up and stop fantasizing that they can or ever will have any power over it. Stop watching it.
Then maybe it might change. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2894
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 04:11 pm: |
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Well when the Cosby show was running in prime time, people complained about that sanitized image. When they had "Good Times" on, blacks complained about J-J being a buffoon. (Inspite of the fact that his parents were married and his father was strong.) And I really don't see all white folks portrayed in such a positive light on the tube. They have ditzy sex pots and shrews and serial killers and dumb white guys. I agree that TV is not a likely forum for societal reform. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 05:13 pm: |
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You cannot refine crap. Turn that mother off! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 739
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 05:14 pm: |
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NOWHERE...have I said that t.v. is a forum for societal reform.
What I have pointed out...is that MUCH of how we see ourselves and how others see us is because of the IMAGES promoted 24/7 on television.
No one can VALUE the life of a man on Death Row....if Black men on t.v. are not shown as human beings.
The Initial WOMAN'S complaint about the portrayals of Black women was true and deserving of being heard/considered.
She should not be dismissed, but of course....she's asking people to care about images of "Black" women.
We've been trained not to care about black women, period.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 740
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 05:15 pm: |
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CHRIS:
As I write in all of my books....we do need to turn off the television.
Black mothers could do a helluva lot better raising their kids...if they disallowed television alltogether.
On that, I agree with you.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2899
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:56 pm: |
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I believe in being selective in watching TV. Not all of it is bad and I have learned a lot from the Discovery and History channels on Cable TV. Also the on-air "magazine" shows and PBS documentaries on regular TV. I always used TV to babysit my kids and supplement my parenting skills(?), and they grew up quite aware of the world around them. Being educated is one thing, being well-informed and well-rounded is another. You just have to use discretion in what you allow your kids to watch. Cartoons should not be banned;just restricted. Nobody should grow up without having something to laugh at. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 742
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 07:02 pm: |
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I agree Cynique.
I LOVE "Discovery" Channel, "History" channel and FOOD Network.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 272
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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This is related to this topic somewhat:
Although childrens programing has become more culturally and racially diverse compared to 10 or 20 years ago,as I watch TV with my cousin's kids I've learned that one thing has not changed: the black (brown-skinned)female characters on animated shows ALWAYS have the sassy voice sand personality. Now instead, the cultural range has included hispanics and asian characters (male and female) in the mix ("Dora the Explorer", "American Dragon", for ex.). However, Those groups have been allowed to stretch the boundaries of their personalities, and some black male charatures have managed to break traditional stereotypes, yet the black female characters ("proud family",Any black female on a current cartoon ) still retain same sassy, finger-waving verbal and behavior patterns we've seen since the 70's.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 273
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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just adding:
If you ever heard Cree Summer speak, you know her dialect is far from what people consider "street" or "hip-hop" or "sassy". but the voices she uses for black characters are often, if not always the same "sassy" range:
http://imdb.com/name/nm0838588/
I'm not sure who's fault this is ,her's or the voice director's, but somebody's got to
say "no".
It's sad too. With a flexible vocal range like hers, she should not be resorting to stereotypical voices for the black characters. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 274
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:14 pm: |
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Something I thought I should point out,
Paula Jai Parker: one of the most typecast women in hollywood. Whenever I see her on TV or in a movie she is either:
* a hooker
* a golddigger
* a stripper
* a ghetto girl with hoops and french tips,
* a baby mama
* main character's tacky-looking(or acting) friend
But when you think about it, she IS brown. And if anyones' seen the movie "My baby daddy", eddie griffin dumps Parkers character (his goldigging babymama, of course)for a single mother who's 2 shades lighter than both he AND Parker.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 147
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 01:21 am: |
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Roxie --
Yes, the black female character has gotten the shit end of the media stick. However, the stick is drippin' in gold, so they aren't hollerin' too much. At least, not so far. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 745
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:02 am: |
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Nels,
I get so tired of black men like you who just can't WAIT to point out to us that...you don't care.
Trust me, every black woman who comes to this board already knows that 99% of Black men don't care what happens to us, how we're viewed, how we're treated, etc.
In American history...it's been that way since the slave people were first brought here in chains.
So sometimes...on the issue of black female REPRESENTATION....
you could just shut the fuck up.
We already know you don't care.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 693
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 12:00 pm: |
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What's up, everybody!
I was just thinking about a conversation I had with Cynnique recently. It's funny how white people, along with many blacks, will stop at absolutely nothing to embrace their glamorous (i.e. Stylish, excitng) personalities; but when it comes to us and our Sassy (i.e. stylish, exiciting) people, we tend to back away and use phrases or words like "negative stereotypes" and "charatures".... I don't understand. I guess I'm still trying to find out what these Sassy sistahs done wrong. Have I missed a meeting where we've decided that their personalities are too "Sambo" or "Mammylike"??? And what is it about them that's so "negative"?.... Last I heard, albeit "baby mommas", they were at home raising kids; not robbing liquor stores or standing on the corner selling crack. I'll admit - oftentimes they're as dramatic as all out doors and, YES, sometimes they can be OVERLY emotional... but those same qualities are exactly what keeps us glued to daytime/primetime soaps, music videos, and glamour magazines!.... It just makes me wonder why whites are so motivated to celebrate, enjoy and preserve their glamour, while we find it necessary to demonize, hide, and purposely destroy ours, hmmm?
Tonya |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2900
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:10 pm: |
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Good Lord! Can I be agreeing with Tonya! I'm just wondering about the complainers here. Lately, have any of you been down to the club on a Saturday night? Walked through the halls of a high school? Visited a college campus? I have, and believe me what you see are a bunch of bold, sassy, animated young black women! Ain't no proper-talkin, shrinkin violets tipping around these places. This also goes for bossy black females in the work place. Seems like you people are using white standards to judge black women. Until you find out what's on the minds of these women, you should forego the superficiality involved when you simply judge them by their demeanor. Plus, if regularly flying off the handle over imagined slights and cussing out men like Nels who simply make observations isn't sassy and aggressive, I don't what is. Also the black actresses who take these roles probably figure what the heck. It's a job. Are they any different from air-head valley girl-types or dumb blonds or wisecracking sidekicks who abound among white female characters in the media??? Yes, I know you will respond that there should be some balance and I say that there are black actresses on TV who act white. And of course, there are complaints about this. |
Afroamerican
Veteran Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:43 pm: |
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I agree!
I am very put off that they cast Alfreed Woodard as the "Black woman" of the show when slim, half way attractive White and Hispanic women get to fill the other roles!
Kenya Moore or even Toni Braxton would have been a wonderful cast member! However they did not want them getting attention on a show meant for White females! |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 146
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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I think they should have gotten Angela Bassett, but she would have out-acted the hell out of those other chicks. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 695
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 06:37 pm: |
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Wait a minute --
Aren't these women a bunch of middle aged white women. We're talking about the show "Desperate Housewives" right? If so, I've seen these women and NONE of them are incredibly attractive. You have got to be out of your crack smokin mind if you don't think Alfreed Woodards doesn't make them hags look like dogs. Why give these washed-out average looking white women that much credit -- what is all this talk about getting Angela this this and Toni that -- Alfreed Woodard (a beautiful authentic black women, btw) more than does the trick, she's fine.
Tonya |
Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:18 pm: |
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Afroamerican:
Yo true colors is startin' to show! Watch yaself there now...watch yaself! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 738
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
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TONYA:
"Alfreed Woodard (a beautiful authentic black women,...)
MOONSIGNS:
While the women of 'Desperate Housewives' aren't really pretty (meaning soft and feminine looking), Alfreed Woodard isn't either. Please. They are all "kept", however, they really aren't "beautiful" women. Being "Authentic" (whatever race/color it may be) does automatically mean a woman is beautiful.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 739
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 07:47 pm: |
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And (of course) the end of Cyniques most recent post is on point!!!! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 700
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 08:42 pm: |
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To each their own - Moonie!
And I mean that EXACTLY how you think I meant it.
Stick to your own shit and I'll stick to mine.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 701
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 08:59 pm: |
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...But I bet we can both agree on this Moonsigns: Why on earth would anyone need drop-dead-gorgeous beauties like Angela Basset and Toni Braxton to compete with the homely almost less than average looks of the white women on "Desperate Housewives"?
So, yes, in that context, Alfreed Woodard is more than enough. (IMO)
Tonya |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 147
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 10:50 pm: |
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I don't care for how any of them look, really. Heck, I don't even watch the show. I just like Angela Bassett. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 746
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:01 pm: |
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Just imagine--
Alfre Woodard is the only one in the cast who hasn't had Plastic Surgery...and she still looks better and more well preserved than all those other stretched-faced over-rated white and latina slacks.
Of course, with her perfect chocolate skin and African features, we're supposed to automatically see the Euro-featured women as more attractive.
I agree, Tonya. Alfre makes those other women look like shit.
But I ALSO agree that I would have been more impressed if a sexy black woman of "child-bearing" age had been installed on the show...and NOT a lightskinned woman, but someone like Kenya Moore or Naomi Campbell or Kerry Washington.
That would have been revolutionary. But they don't like to show BLACK black women in that capacity.
Marita Golden's book "Don't Play In the Sun" did an excellent introspection on just why this is and the REASON for it.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 747
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
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Nicolette Sheridan's had so many face lifts and skin peels that she looks like a MAN in drag to me.
Eva Longoria just looks greasy and cheap and has very poor skin quality.
Teri Hatcher needs to gain 10 pounds and when she smiles---the wrinkles and false teeth and bony shoulders make her look like she's cracking up, literally. She is NOT attractive, but I've heard so many black men trying to claim she's "hot".
Hot shit.
That's what she looks like.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 748
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:07 pm: |
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Black don't Crack.
Naturally, they don't let her look like this on the show.
Or have any kind of "real life".
She's just a Black Mother and Psycho with someone tied up in the basement.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:16 pm: |
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Actually, she's prettier than I remember. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 702
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:26 pm: |
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I don't watch the show either, Reneta, so I completely understand (LOL). Anyway, I'm not sure, are any of these white/latino women of child-bearing age? I saw the cast on Oprah once and they all looked older to me - about Alfreed Woodard's age.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 750
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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Earth to TONYA---
not a single cast member is AS OLD as "Alfre Woodard". She's the ONLY ONE past 50.
Eva Longoria is supposedly a "young wife" and yes she's of child bearing age.
And my point is that we NEED some young black sex symbols in the media.....and that there's a STRATEGIC REASON why we aren't allowed to have many.
I love Alfre Woodard and Angela but black women are ALSO portrayed as older, sexless, "mothering" (and often over bearing) women.
Alfre's role on the show is nothing to be happy about IMO.
Her character is a twisted Psycho.
Did you enjoy Loretta Devine's character on "Boston Public"?
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 278
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:54 pm: |
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Tonya,
--I guess I'm still trying to find out what these Sassy sistahs done wrong.--
I have nothing wrong with the neck-twitching, finer waving persona,just the fact that there are no other pesonality types to counter it. Tv has narrowed our options down to one staple personality: the "sassy" black woman. It got so bad actresses like Tia and tamera mory were forced to take on the personas, and made fools of themselvesin te process. To dumb producers if a black woman does not act "sassy" she is not acting truly black. God I hate Hollywood sometimes.
In reference to your overall point, I do agree with you. I've come upon online essays by black college proffessors explaining why STEVE URKEL was a black stereotype! O_o |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 279
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
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[looks at afre woodward's photo]
you know, when you see THAT photo of her and then think of how she looked in "Beautyshop", you have to wonder: "did they put age-advancing make-up on her like they did cedric the entertainer's character?" |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 753
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:11 am: |
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She has to be "in character".
And they very rarely give her a role where she's supposed to be "attactrive".
Alfre is a pretty woman, like most women, if she's allowed to dress up and show a little cleavage, a little leg.
But those are the not roles WOMEN LIKE HER are given.
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Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 148
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:30 am: |
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Kola --
"I get so tired of black men like you who just can't WAIT to point out to us that...you don't care."
It's a free world, and facts are facts. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 704
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 02:08 am: |
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Kola, my bad, I had no idea Alfreed (sp) was that old. God, she looks good for her age!
***Did you enjoy Loretta Devine's character on "Boston Public"?***
To be honest with you, if it's not CNN or MSNBC I don't watch TV at all.
But I have read about her character in a book I've read recently - "Black Sexual Politics".
Roxie, as I told Kola, I don't watch a lot of TV but you have got to be kidding me with this statement:
***I have nothing wrong with the neck-twitching, finer waving persona,just the fact that there are no other pesonality types to counter it.***
Almost EVERY black man who have a TV show or make movies is usually paired with a middle class, white acting, or biracial looking wife (sometimes all the before mentioned) and if he has female children they're usually the same. Take Damon Wayen's show "My Wife And My Kids", for example, Teisha Campble (sp) plays your average middle class black women and the oldest daughter (who looks biracial) acts whiter than some of the white girls I grew up with -- AND THAT'S WHITE! (Not to mention annoying - even when white girls do it.)
And, although they had black names, Tia and tamera did not, in anyway, act like your average neck-twitching, finer waving sistah -- that's not true at all.
The only real shows we had, besides "Martin" and a few others, that mainly featured what I call sassy sistahs was the show "The Parkers" -- for which I had absolutely no love for; but was happy to see because sassy black women were finally being shown more. Now I agree with you on this: the portrayal of sassy black women by the two main stars of this show was horrible. Not because the depiction was inaccurate, in fact I thought it was right on cue, the actors just didn't have the talent to pull it off -- that was my only complaint about the show.
Anyway, I know I haven't been watching much TV lately but I find it hard to believe that the imbalance is tipped in favor of Sassy and culturally authentic black women; so maybe our perception of sassy black women differs.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 900
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 08:35 am: |
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So a real black woman is dark skinned, waves her finger and twitches her neck... this is interesting...Alfreed is also married to a white man...although black don't crack does she lose her black woman status? |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 283
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:15 am: |
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--so maybe our perception of sassy black women differs.--
Tonya,
After reading the Oct. 27 post, were more on the same page than you think. You just communicate the message better. 
I was just saying that the "hollywodd shuffle" is still in effect for black women. TV execs expect some black actresses to have natural predisposition for speaking "sassy" even those like the mowrys and tisha cambell. It makes getting acting jobs all the mored difficult for black women, especially brown and dark-complexioned ladies.
When I mentioned Paula Jai Parker I brought her up to bring attention of the pattern of her work. Is she taking those roles out of carelessness,
OR has she had so many barriers thrust upon her by colorist casting directors that she has to now take whatever role she can get? Think about it. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 740
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 01:55 pm: |
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TONYA:
"To each their own - Moonie!"
MOONSIGNS:
I know that's right!
TONYA:
"And I meant that EXACTLY how you think I meant it."
MOONSIGNS:
Really....do you promise?
To me, Agela Bassett and Toni Braxton aren't "drop -dead gorgeous beauties. They're "made-up" pretty--not at all naturally pretty. Now--if you were to put Kerry Washington on the show, that would be interesting. She's a drop-dead, gorgeous beauty!!!!
TONYA:
"Tesisha Campbell (sp) plays your average middle class black woman and the older daughter (who looks biracial) acts whiter than some of the white girls I grew up with -- AND THAT'S WHITE!"
MOONSIGNS:
And I thought you said that black people think differently?!?! That, to me, would suggest that black people can act differently as well (from person to person). In your opinion, what's the best way this actress can "act" black?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 705
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 01:56 pm: |
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"So a real black woman is dark skinned, waves her finger and twitches her neck... this is interesting..."
Damn, Yukio... are you sure you've been reading this thread? If so, please be fair and explain why it is that you seem to have gotten it so wrong.
Tonya |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 741
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 02:05 pm: |
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Regarding Alfre Woodward--"preserved skin" does not automatically mean she has a pretty face. And it has nothing to do with comparing her to European standards as far as facial structure and skin color are concerned. Her eyes are so F....A....R apart, which, to me, makes her look like an alien.
On a side note, I didn't know she was married to a white man!!!! I'd like to see a picture of him.
But, hey, Konya couldn't have said it better. To each their own!!!! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 706
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 03:16 pm: |
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***In your opinion, what's the best way this actress can "act" black?***
First, I'd have to see a script. Then, I'd like to hear more about her backround: where she learned the craft, does she have any experience with live productions, how familiar is she with the theatre - that's so important --
(NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE THEATRE!!!)....
Finally, I'd have to know how much I'd be getting paid. My time is verrry valuable, you see. I say six figures to start sounds reasonable. Of course that figure will have to increase as time goes on. But after having met all of the requirements, I'd be happy to teach your client the arts.... She'll learn monologues, Diologues, and Biologues.... She'll have stage presents, learn how to conduct herself during interviews and on the red carpet....... And then!... AND ONLY THEN!.......... she will have learned... from... the... MASTER!!!!.... 11 Oscars, 19 Emmies, 8 Tonys, 22 Golden Globes!!!........
...Cash, check, or credit card?... (Tossing the scarf, sipping the Martini, waiting for these bitches to take their places so I can yell, "ACTION!")....(LOL!)
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 707
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 03:26 pm: |
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...My point is: I can't give my opinion on how to act black or white because I don't know how to do either one.... But make no mistake, many people do....
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 754
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 04:02 pm: |
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MOON, you say that Alfre Woodard isn't pretty. Her eyes are too far apart making her look like an alien.
But I say...that for a woman who's considerably OLDER than the four WHITE co-stars on the show, she looks hella fine next to their plastic-surgeried, stretched goldfish-mouthed faces. And her chocolate skin is so alive with liquid sheen that their pastey OVERLY MADE UP asses can't even register without "shading" by the cinematographer.
Alfre is a very pretty woman to me. She LOOKS like a West African woman. I love her features.
And to YUKIO--as Alfre Woodard was so brave enough to say regarding her "white husband"----WHO ELSE in Hollywood on her level was going to marry a black woman with African features????
Are you suggesting that REAL black men in Hollywood would Yukio---or are you suggesting that she should have just stayed single?
Available Black women OUTNUMBER black men 8 to 1, and that's BEFORE you start counting up the pool of colorstruck black men in Showbiz/Sports who DO NOT DATE "black women"---especially if they're not lightskinned or mixed.
So WHO are women like Whoopi Goldberg and Alfre Woodard and Cassandra Wilson supposed to marry, YUKIO when so many black men are prejudiced against black women???
Back to MOON.
You say that Angela Bassett and Toni Braxton aren't "drop dead gorgeous"----and that they aren't even pretty---they're MADE UP to LOOK pretty.
And I say....your taste is all in your mouth and you don't know a thing about what is beautiful.
Both those women are incredible facial features, look 10 years younger than what they are WITHOUT PLASTIC SURGERY and have incredible bodies---bodies that white women could never attain, and most of their body acumen is just plain good NEGROID genetics.
So you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And your opinion DISPROVES all that phoney shit you preached months ago about how you were raised to see people as people in their own cultures without race----I guess you missed the class on what a black woman, the mother of the black man, is supposed to look like.
You actually think Kerry Washington is a beauty and not Angela Bassett---when they could be mother and daughter.
You're such a stale fart.
Look guys....no make up
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 755
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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Talk about GORGEOUS facial features.
God just literally KISSED Angela Bassett
all over her damned face!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 708
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 04:46 pm: |
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That's exactly why I didn't pay Moonsign's assessment of Alfreed no mind. Correct me if I'm wrong, Asian people's eyes are naturally set further apart; and, a lot of blacks who are mixed with Asian blood have that feature. Tyson Becford, Naomi Cambpell, Tigar Woods, and, I don't know if Brandy is mixed with Asian blood, but she, too, has those kind of eyes. So it seems to me that that feature is natural, not a flaw, right?
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 709
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 04:48 pm: |
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Oops, I meant, "any mind." |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 901
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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Damn Kola, you keeping posting some of my favorite women...Angela Bassett and Sanaa Latham are my ideal women.
Tonya:
Almost EVERY black man who have a TV show or make movies is usually paired with a middle class, WHITE ACTING, or biracial looking wife (sometimes all the before mentioned) and if he has female children they're usually the same. Take Damon Wayen's show "My Wife And My Kids", for example, Teisha Campble (sp) plays your average middle class black women and the oldest daughter (who looks biracial) acts whiter than some of the white girls I grew up with -- AND THAT'S WHITE! (Not to mention annoying - even when white girls do it.)
And, although they had black names, Tia and tamera did not, in anyway, act like your average neck-twitching, finer waving sistah -- that's not true at all.
The only real shows we had, besides "Martin" and a few others.
If I am wrong then I am sorry. Your word choice suggests alot....thats all! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 756
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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Asians are not the only people with "slanted" eyes.
Many Africans on the continent have slanted eyes, and they are NOT mixed with Chinese.
Nelson Mandela gets his "shin fold" from African blood.
The "Asians" came from Africa, people forget.
And as for Alfre Woodard, she looks like a typical Ghanian woman. She doesn't even look American at all. She looks West African.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 710
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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Yukio, please, can you try doing better than that. You say my words suggest alot; well, what do they suggest. I guess I don't see how you could have possibly gotten, "a real black woman is dark skinned, waves her finger and twitches her neck" out of my words. At this point I'm just curious.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 902
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 09:30 pm: |
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Tonya: Actually, as I reread the post, my characterization of your comments about "neck-twitching..." is probably off the mark, but your posts still suggest, as I see it, that you believe that a real black woman is dark skinned.
When you say "white acting" and biracial, it seems in direct contrast to the sassy black women, i.e. a real black woman. The "although they had black names" clause sounds like you wanted to say, they have black names but they don't act black and are not black.
Anyways, there it is.... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 712
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:42 pm: |
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Yukio, Maybe you should have read everything that transpired between Roxie and me. It started with Roxie's Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:41 post. Our conversation had nothing to do with skin tone. Sassiness is a BEHAVIOR. Black women of ALL SKIN TONES can be (and are ) sassy. Roxie was concerned about there being a balance between the representation of "sassy" black women and other black women. I pointed out that other black women are portrayed way more than sassy ones. Even Biracial women (who are NOT black) are portrayed more than the black women Roxie and I defined as "Sassy". And black women who act white are featured more also. That's basically all I was saying.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 713
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:45 pm: |
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Also, let's not forget that white women can be (and are) sassy too. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 903
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 11:57 pm: |
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Tonya: Gotcha... but if a woman is "biracial" she is probably not darkskinned (skin tone). Thus you were talking about skin tone although it was not the main topic.
I am African American. I'm light brown, and as far as I know, there aren't any white folk in my family.
Now, here's the scenario....I marry a white woman, and, according to you, my child is biracial, and therefore not black, right? Ok, my biracial daugher marries a black man and they have a girl...is she black or biracial? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 759
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 01:39 am: |
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Tonya ignore people like Yukio.
And MOST "black women" reside in Africa and are not sassy, but monotonously quiet.
Of course black men think it's cute when White women are sassy.
Just like a White whore is "sexually ambitious" and not a "HO" like a black one.
Difference between Yukio and Nels, however, is that Yukio does care somewhat about black women's feelings and what happens to them.
But I don't even talk to people like Yukio about these issues anymore, because deep down--he's just another smart person nervously trying to make excuses and create doorways of denial for what the larger truths are.
Then again, I guess you're bored and need someone to talk to, spar with.
Have at it.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 904
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 03:15 am: |
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Kola_boof: You amuse me...you must be bored and need someone to talk to, spar with...of course, you knew I would respond. WE know how attention greedy you are...I will bite...lmao!
Anyways, and what or whom am I trying to make excuses for? And, according to you of course, what are the larger truths? You and I have never had a discussion about black women, so how can you judge how I or what I feel for black women?
I'm not a colorist. I see things from the ODR (though I don't think it is wrong for others to see it another way based on their history and lived experience); I'm ol' school Afro-Am...my experiences and understanding of history has been based on being black and a nation within a nation, where race was the primary factor not color. This, of course, does not deny the importance of color, but I have no problem with fair skinned or dark skinned people. Personally, one can be a dark skinned colorist or a light skinned colorist...either way, both types do the same thing.
Halle B. is a sista; Lenny Kravitz a brother, etc...the ROck is a brother...is name is Dwayne for christ sakes...lmao! Now, Vin Diesel and Mariah....don't care for them...especially Mariah...I thought that Essence sold out when they put her on the cover and at no point did she identify her self as black....she just talked about her experience with discrimination...she needed a hug...and Jermain dupri and the brat said she was black...cut the crap, I wanna here it from the horse's mouth! As far as I remember, she never said...she was on the cover cuz her album was coming out and essence wanted to attain another demographic! The fact is, people don't see racism, so all they can talk about is being of various socalled races. Although their experiences are generally singular...It is ridiculous to me...
BTW KB, as far as I'm concerned, Tonya and I are not sparing. I found something interesting...and she was curious; that is the alph and omega. If anything, she was clarifying something to me; thus, we can say that this was purely instructional, to your chagrin.
Finally, you rhetoric is disrespectful, to me at least. You rhetoric is a slap in the face of the people who in this country at least, were slain, hung, lynched, shot, etc...Jim Crow America wasn't playin...and presently, as far as whites are concerned, a nigga is a nigga! People of various hues ( who embraced their blackness first, not because they had to but because they understood blackness was beyond color and more importantly they understood the reality that they were a race first---this is garvey speaking thru me---not color; they understood these difference)fought for black people with their pens and bodies, sacrified their livelihood and lives.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 760
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 04:34 am: |
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Attention?
What are the rest of you here for?
Disrespectful?
I've been disrespected by the music, movies, magazines and culture of "niggas" since the day I arrived in this country.
So I'm glad to be giving it back, if that's what I'm doing.
And of course, no matter how you drag up that Jim Crow bullshit---I'll never STOP seeing the dynamic for just what it is.
Whites create Mulatto BUFFER group to help "control and suppress" the original Authentic Black group.
The Authentic Blacks being MY PEOPLE.
Which is something GARVEY actually stated many times.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 744
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 09:32 am: |
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In regards to Alfre Woodward, again, just because her skin (definitely) looks better than the white women on the show, it does not mean she is prettier than the other women. To me, all the women on the cast of DHW look rather average (and weathered--including Alfree--she has bags under her eyes).
While I think that is a pretty picture of AB (as I'm sure it's airbrushed and she IS wearing make-up), I still maintain my opinion that she is not a natural beauty.
KOLA:
"And I say....your taste is all in your mouth and you don't a thing about what is beautiful."
MOONSIGNS:
And I say, beauty is relative.
KOLA:
"Both those women are incredible facial features, look 10 years younger WITHOUT PLASTIC SURGERY and have incredible bodies---bodies that white women could never attain."
MOONSIGNS:
Again, Kola, beauty is relative. I can guarantee you that the average white women doesn't want a body shape like a black woman and, the average black woman doesn't want a body shape like a white woman.
KOLA:
"And your opinion DISPROVES all that phoney shit you preached months ago about how you were raised to see people as people in their own cultures without race."
MOONSIGNS:
Kola, it doesn't disprove anything about how my parents raised me. However, what it does prove is that you're just hypersensitive when anyone says anything you don't agree with in regards to black women who look "authentic". Just because I think that AB isn't a "natural beauty" doesn't mean that I don't think that other ("authentic", your word) black women aren't. Are you so delusional that you think that every "authentic" black person is beautiful on the sole merit that they are "authentic"?! Please. Just like I don't think every European is beautiful just because they are European, I don't think every African is beautiful just because they are African. There are average, beautiful and unattractive people in all colors. Stop being a cry baby, Kola!
KOLA:
"I guess you missed the class on what a black woman, the mother of black men, is supposed to look like."
MOONSIGNS:
"supposed to look like" is the key phrase here, Kola. You and I have very different ideas about what "black" is. And in this regard, it has nothing to do with me being "white" and you being "black"--as many of the other "black" board members disagree with you as well. I think (authentic) black women come in various shades from light to dark. Obviously, you don't. So, I didn't miss any "class", we just have a fundamental difference in opinion regarding who is considered black and who isn't.
Can it, Kola.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 905
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:11 am: |
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Kola, mulattoes during slavery and jim crow were, for the most part, created out of hate, ie rape! You thinking is loose...there was no intent to create the "Mulatto BUFFER group to help 'control and suppress' the original Authentic Black group."
Again, this doesn't preclude the fact of colorism. What it does state is that you see skin and immediately assume you know their beliefs...that IS YOUR COLORISM. Hey, thats your opinion, and you are consistent, but you don't understand race in this country...thats what I think and I'm sticking to it!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 906
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:18 am: |
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One of the reasons Garvey lost favor among folk in the US was because he often equated racial politics in Jamaica, ie colorism, with racial politics in the US, race. In Jamaica and the Caribbean in general, there was clear economic stratification, based on color. At the same time, there were many lightskinned blacks in the UNIA. Garvey's criticisms were generally directed at Dubois and other fair skinned intellectuals that he didn't like. In other words, if he didn't like ya, he was quick to use colorism. |
Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:19 am: |
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AUTHENTIC Blacks don't come in EVERY shade...there were no light skins getting off those ships back in the day...white supremacy needs to redefine what it means to be WHITE instead of arrogantly presuming it's ok to dump their children off on OUR side of the fence to cause dissension... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2906
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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Maybe we should give the proper connotation to the word "authentic'. Certain among you have attempted to embue it with being superior when actually within the context of color, it is just a term used by some to make a disintiction between mixed people and black people, and the idea that one is better than the other is purely subjective. After all, one can also be an authetic mixed person. We are what we are, and the idea that one person is better than another person rather than different from another person can be a form of racism. |
Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:00 pm: |
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Personally, I have not confused the two. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2908
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |
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And it should be further noted that equating "purity" with "autheticity" brings nothing to the discussion other than to say that something is undiluted which is not synonomous with it being preferable. After all, there is such a thing as pure evil a phrase that could be used to describe white skin heads. |
Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:24 pm: |
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If by "preferable" you're meaning behavior/values/attitude, then I agree. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 907
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 01:16 pm: |
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what does authentic mean? And by whose standards? Are you talkin about authentic Africans? Is this based on skin, place of birth, culture, what? How does one engage space and time?
I recently witnessed a dialogue between a brother from Senegal and a brother from Cote d' Ivoire, both dark skinned. It was fun and funny. The brother from Cote d' Ivorie argued that the brother from Senegal was more French than the French. In other words, it was a discussion of authenticity...
Again, where and how do we identify authenticity? Must we locate it in pre-transatlantic slave trade? Is it blood? How does tribes/ethnic groups matter? Are some ethnic groups less authentic than others?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 715
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 01:23 pm: |
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Yukio:
Mariah...I thought that Essence sold out when they put her on the cover and at no point did she identify her self as black....she just talked about her experience with discrimination...she needed a hug...and Jermain dupri and the brat said she was black...cut the crap, I wanna here it from the horse's mouth!
Now, here's the scenario....I marry a white woman, and, according to you, my child is biracial, and therefore not black, right? Ok, my biracial daugher marries a black man and they have a girl...is she black or biracial?
Tonya:
Yukio - I AM NOT A ONE DROP FOOL BECAUSE OF THE ONE DROP RULE.
For example, Mariah Carey doesn't have to tell *ME* she's black -- I ACCEPT the FACT that she's NOT.
And, again, just curious, are you saying that all ANYBODY have to do to be black is "identify her self as black" - claim blackness? Forgive me for saying this but that sounds like a statement made by a one drop fool. Do you know how many white people have one drop of our blood. I guess George W. Bush can claim blackness tomorrow -- lord knows he needs the black vote.
As for your scenario, if you marry a white women and the child comes out LOOKING black, the child's black, if she LOOKS biracial, the child's biracial, if she LOOKS white, the child's white. It's that simple. I have a baby cousin who is the product of a black man and Hispanic women. She came out LOOKING Hispanic, so she's Hispanic. I love her just as much as I love all of my nieces, nephews, and baby cousins. The fact that she's Hispanic means absolutely nothing to me. Has it ever occurred to you that once a person gets over colorism and self hate she begins to accept herself; therefore, accepting others. Why does Mariah have to be black? Why can't she be white, or whatever? As far as I'm concerned, she can sang, and that's good enough for me.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 716
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 01:44 pm: |
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Cynnique, sweetie, what is happening to us??? (LOL) I agree with your last two posts 100%.
Tonya |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 01:46 pm: |
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Authentic blacks like Clarence Thomas? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 717
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 05:37 pm: |
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***I still maintain my opinion that she is not a natural beauty***
Moonsigns, your opinion on whether or not a black women is beautiful is the same as what my opinion of white beauty would mean to an anonymous white women walking down Madison avenue - NOTHING.
But as I said before...
TO EACH THEIR OWN.
As for your views, you've made it clear that "based on science" you believe that ALL women of ALL races should look the same in order to be deemed beautiful. But let's not forget that your ancestors used that same "science" to declare that blacks were "wild" and "exotic" thus "proven" not human...
SO, YOUR OPINION (i.e. RACIST VIEWS) MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BLACK WOMEN, ESPECIALLY ME.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 908
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 06:15 pm: |
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Tonya: I think and look at blackness from a historical, national, ethnic, and cultural stand point. I have no fixed idea about blackness. From my standpoint, I don't have the right to tell a person who has a particular notion of blackness that is, indeed, based upon their lived experience that they are not black. Now, I will tell them that I disagree with their position and/or engage them from another perspective, but that is it....It is one thing to engage ideas and positions, but it is another thing to understand blackness from a South African perspective, West African Perspective, East African, Cuban perspective, etc...So called mixed or biracial people in the US and different parts of the world have been killed because they were racialized as black and saw themselve as black. It is only when various cultural groups meet do we have these interesting discussions about what it means to be black....sometimes, unfortunately, these different notions can also lead to murder!
Regardless what I think and you think, blackness is lived differently in different places, and to use my idea as the best and only is a slap in the face of that person's lived experience, history, and the history of their people. This is how I see Kola's arguments, though I respect them intellectually, historically I find them highly problematic.
With that said, I can appreciate this socalled "one drop rule fool" phrase...it is catchy, to say the least. I wouldn't characterize myself as a fool, but I think the ODR issue is useful in some ways and in other ways it is not...In general, I know of many socalled biracial people and fair skinned people who have lived a life as black people....they were raised by blacks within a black community, where considered black, were culturally black, and politically black, etc....(what ever black means, btw). So to me, experience is fundamental not pure identification or color.
Regarding my hypothetical...gotcha! So your notion pertains primarily to color and features. As I stated, mine includes color and features but also culture and rearing.
Regarding Mariah: She doesn't have to be black. It is not about her voice or talent, but honesty, integrity, and principle:
My point was, she was on the cover of a self-identified black woman magazine. And the article claimed that she was a black woman, w/o her doing so...In my opinion that is culturally and politically dishonest, both on the part of MC and Essence Magazine. Mariah Carey has been consistent with distancing her self from being identified as black, she wants to reap the benefits of our cultural production. Thats kewl, but don't indirectly claim blackness when you are on a come back and people thought you were crazy...lmao! Essence magazine, similarly, is also culpable! Perhaps, this is the result of the magazine being owned by white folk...don't know? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 764
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 06:35 pm: |
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YUKIO Said
Kola, mulattoes during slavery and jim crow were, for the most part, created out of hate, ie rape! You thinking is loose...there was no intent to create the "Mulatto BUFFER group to help 'control and suppress' the original Authentic Black group."
Kola Says:
Then why weren't they left in the fields TOGETHER during slavery?
Why were they separated based on COLOR even back then?
Next up---during Jim Crowe, why did the Whites create Colleges and Universities that basically were for Mulattos only???
Why were Mulattos having "Brown paper bag" test and "pencil rules" to keep Authentic Blacks out of their blue vein societies?
Apparently they KNEW that they were no longer the same people and that BLACK BLOOD would wipe them out (as it did in Liberia, when the mulatto slaves returned to start that nation---now there's no sign they ever arrived, the black blood turned them back Authentic).
Why was the NAACP, which was almost all Octoroons at its inception, encouraged by the White establishment.....while the vast majority of Black Americans of the early 1900's were "Garveyites" and preferred Marcus Garvey's UNIA and his rhetoric and newspapers?
Also, please note Yukio, that NO BLACK LEADER IN HISTORY...not Martin Luther King,not Malcolm X....no one has ever had the popularity among black people in America that Marcus Garvey did in the early 1920's. The man was able to purchase a FLEET of ships from the British, because the black population gave him their money to do so and in 1921-1923, 96% of Black Americans called themselves "Garveyites".
Whereas Martin Luther King had the SOUTH and the White Government's backing and Malcolm X had a small handful of supporters in the NORTH (he didn't become an icon until he was assassinated)....Marcus Garvey had ALL BLACKS in both the North and the South and was ALIVE to see himself ordained a "hero" by the entire black world, not just in America--but in Africa as well.
Also, Malcolm X was bigger in Africa in the 1960s than he was in Black America.
Most Black Americans feared Malcolm when he was alive. Africans declared him an "African".
The small minority of "Mulattos" was always backed up by the White establishment and made to seem larger and more powerful than they were, just like today.
A good example is Halle Berry having the OSCAR and being constantly hyped by the media, but if you poll Black Americans, they overwhelmingly pick Angela Bassett as the premiere black actress.
Nothing has changed. Lena Horne had the media, but Pearl Bailey and Ethel Waters were far more popular with the black masses and there's a white booking agent who wrote that tickets to see Pearl Bailey in concert would sell out in 5 minutes, but it took them a week of promotion to get blacks to go see Lena Horne's concert--and you still had empty seats.
THIS IS THE BUFFER I'm talking about.
Mulattos, who are a minority in the black community, are continuously risen up and placed on TOP to act as a buffer that "speaks for", "controls" and helps to "suppress" the original Authentic Blacks who came to this country in CHAINS.
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Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 07:30 pm: |
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Authentic blackness is about BOTH genetics and values. While I'm not necessarily a purist, I am far from being a one-droppist. So, why should I consider a Jennifer Beals or Tiger Woods part of the 'fam' when I KNOW they are void of loyalty and were NOT born of the rape of a Black woman by a nonblack man? Where's the line?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 718
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 07:41 pm: |
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Yukio:
I think and look at blackness from a historical, national, ethnic, and cultural stand point.
Tonya:
Who doesn't?
Yukio:
It is one thing to engage ideas and positions, but it is another thing to understand blackness from a South African perspective, West African Perspective, East African, Cuban perspective, etc...
Tonya:
Are you insinuating that I understand blackness from a Cuban/African perspective?
Well, then, I guess it would surprise you that most African Americans view blackness more like I view it than do you. Maybe you should get out more. Btw, how old are you? You appear to view blackness like those from the old school. We've learned alot since then, you know. Due to the increase of media coverage and the invention of the internet, there's a lot more information available to us -- some reliable, some not - but still - information which makes us a little more informed.
Yukio:
Regarding my hypothetical...gotcha! So your notion pertains primarily to color and features. As I stated, mine includes color and features but also culture and rearing.
Tonya:
Good! So we agree to disagree.... I don't believe people should be able to claim blackness just because they're culturally black. It didn't work for Eminem (black men wasn't having it) and, IMO, it shouldn't work for anyone else.
Tonya
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 719
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 08:09 pm: |
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By the way, wasn't Eminem on the cover of Essence once? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 909
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 08:18 pm: |
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Kola:
Then why weren't they left in the fields TOGETHER during slavery?
Why were they separated based on COLOR even back then?
Yukio:
They did work in the fields together. And, in general, they were not separated by color. This is a misconception. If they were the product of master and female slave, then the master may have manumitted their off spring. Generally, this didn't happen. It also depended on the relationship between the master and the mistress. If she had more power and prestige then the socalled biracial offspring definitely worked in the fields and interpersonally got it worse than other slaves. Also, if the master had no emotional attachment to his offspring then, again, the socalled biracial child would be doing labor...remember...Slavery was about FREE LABOR!
Kola:
Next up---during Jim Crowe, why did the Whites create Colleges and Universities that basically were for Mulattos only???
I don't know where you received this from, but that is also false. Dead Wrong. School was for everyone.
Kola:
Why were Mulattos having "Brown paper bag" test and "pencil rules" to keep Authentic Blacks out of their blue vein societies?
This is true. BUT ALL mulattoes did not belong to these blue vein societies. And many identified themselve as mulattoes based on the fact of their ancestry, BUT saw themselves as black people. Adam Clayton Powell Sr. is a perfect example.
Kola:
Why was the NAACP, which was almost all Octoroons at its inception, encouraged by the White establishment.....while the vast majority of Black Americans of the early 1900's were "Garveyites" and preferred Marcus Garvey's UNIA and his rhetoric and newspapers?
Also, please note Yukio, that NO BLACK LEADER IN HISTORY...not Martin Luther King,not Malcolm X....no one has ever had the popularity among black people in America that Marcus Garvey did in the early 1920's. The man was able to purchase a FLEET of ships from the British, because the black population gave him their money to do so and in 1921-1923, 96% of Black Americans called themselves "Garveyites".
Yukio:
Whites encouraged Du Bois’ focus on civil rights rather than Booker T. Washington’s pro-economic anti-civil rights accomodationism. Both Du Bois and Washington, btw, were light skinned. As a fatter of fact, Garvey was an advocate of Washington, as were many Africans. Again, this wasn’t about color but political position.
You have to locate Garveyism within the historical moment to understand his constituency. Most people preferred Garvey because he was anti-US and anti-white during and after World War I. This period is central because in 1917, black people—the US, Caribbean, and Africa—fought on the behalf of white people—Americans, the British, and the French. During the war, black folk were killed in East St. Louis (1917) and then of course there was the Red Summer (1919); Violence against black people was perpetrated in the US and London, for example. African American, Caribbean, and African soldiers were also mistreated during and after the war. Thus, Garvey and the UNIA, and the New Negro movement in general, emerged at this pivotal point in world black history. His rhetoric and gallantry were embraced. He conceptualized black people as kings, as queens, as having their own nation, etc….this message was antithetical to what other black leaders and black people in general had every experienced. At the same time, people in the UNIA were fair skinned, and many who supported Garvey did not believe in his back to Africa movement, but they embraced his rhetoric, which was based on race love, as he said RACE FIRST….not color, though he definitely was instrumental for dark skinned people to embrace their color. There is not doubt about that! But he was loved by dark skinned and light skinned people.
With that said, you should not confuse allegiance with acceptance of all of Garvey’s beliefs. Two examples. After 1931 and the Scottsboro case, many black folk embraced Communists and even worked with them, demonstrated in their participation in communist led movements and giving financial support. BUT, at no point has there been a large representation of black people being Communist. Another example, is Farrakhan. Many black folk love Farakhan, but they aren’t muslim, but they like what he stands for. He is articulate and proud and fearless; he says things that brothers and sisters on the street think but don’t have access to radio, newspapers or the television to say! But most of his followers aren’t Muslim. The fact is Kola, the reason why, as I see it and suspect, that Garvey and the Nation of Islam have been so respected is that a majority of African Americans are probably black nationalists…they see themselves as a nation within a nation.
Kola:
The small minority of "Mulattos" was always backed up by the White establishment and made to seem larger and more powerful than they were, just like today.
Yukio:
When and where?
Kola:
A good example is Halle Berry having the OSCAR and being constantly hyped by the media, but if you poll Black Americans, they overwhelmingly pick Angela Bassett as the premiere black actress.
Yukio:
Perhaps, but is it because of HB’s color or the nature of her roles? I also prefer AB, firstly cuz she’s a better actress in my opinion and I like that she chooses roles that are “respectable.” This is my own bias and shortcoming, I believe. I, for example, couldn’t appreciate Halle’s acting in Monster’s Ball. I will admit it was based on my cultural rejection of a black woman having sex with a racist white man and enjoying it and falling in love with him…especially since he executed her husband. Now, of course, the movie was based on this liberal idea that human love conquers all….that her loss her husband and son placed in a place where she needed human contact and the love of another human being…similarly his loss was based on suicide of his son, whom he felted responsible for killing….very cute, but I wasn’t hearing it. Intellectually maybe…culturally not a chance, but that is my shortcoming…
Kola:
Nothing has changed. Lena Horne had the media, but Pearl Bailey and Ethel Waters were far more popular with the black masses and there's a white booking agent who wrote that tickets to see Pearl Bailey in concert would sell out in 5 minutes, but it took them a week of promotion to get blacks to go see Lena Horne's concert--and you still had empty seats.
I can’t speak on the particulars, here. I just don’t know. I would ask, however, was it about color or was it about the cultural integrity of the music. The fact is, and this is clear with hip hop, what blacks like and what whites like is often different!
Kola:
THIS IS THE BUFFER I'm talking about.
Mulattos, who are a minority in the black community, are continuously risen up and placed on TOP to act as a buffer that "speaks for", "controls" and helps to "suppress" the original Authentic Blacks who came to this country in CHAINS.
When I disagreed with you, I did so because I don’t think that why they were “created” as a buffer…that sounds like something that happens in a factory. Your line of thinking is a bit too functionalist for me! Finally, it presumes that these issues are purely based on color…that is ahistorical and certainly untrue. Again, this doesn’t mean that colorism is not an important issue, but that slavery, jim crow, colonialism were not based on color.
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Blaklioness
Regular Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 08:32 pm: |
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Is "Willie Lynch" just a legend?.... |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 910
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 08:32 pm: |
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Blaklioness: I hear ya; I'm not a "one-droppist" either...thats funny! Only black folk are so creative to say something like..."one droppist"!
Tonya:
Caveat: I'm not sure why your tone is condescending, but I have no malice towards.
Tonya:
Are you insinuating that I understand blackness from a Cuban/African perspective?
No. I was making the point that there are different ways of viewing blackness.
Well, then, I guess it would surprise you that most African Americans view blackness more like I view it than do you. Maybe you should get out more. Btw, how old are you? You appear to view blackness like those from the old school. We've learned alot since then, you know. Due to the increase of media coverage and the invention of the internet, there's a lot more information available to us -- some reliable, some not - but still - information which makes us a little more informed.
How do you know how most African Americans view blackness? Where is this study or research that you are getting this position from...a sample? You are quite presumptive, aren't you? How is my idea of blackness old school? Please explain.
Tonya:
Good! So we agree to disagree.... I don't believe people should be able to claim blackness just because they're culturally black. It didn't work for Eminem (black men wasn't having it) and, IMO, it shouldn't work for anyone else.
Yukio: I thought this was clarification...not disagreement. I wouldn't call Eminem black either. He is white talking about poor white trash issues, not African Americans. I wouldn't even say that he is culturally black. He is familiar with hip hop culture, but that is primarily performative. Many white artists can be said to be ingrained and have even internalized our musical culture...look at the jazz artists, blues artists...many are white and are continuing a even purist jazz and blues tradition...look at Eric Clapton. But this is not the same as being "culturally" black. So it seems, as far as this particular case is, are not in disagreement...to your chagrin! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 720
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 09:11 pm: |
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... Ahhh - But you made my point: Eminem is just as culturally black as Mariah Carey (a female who was raised by her white mother and detached from her 1/4 black father).
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 912
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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No Tonya, I said that neither are culturally black. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 159
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 12:32 am: |
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IMO, a black person is a person who is AT LEAST half or more black, AND identifies with black people and culture, AND doesn't reinforce the white supremacist's idea of what black people are or what we should be, AND who understands the struggles of blacks, AND identifies with/supports blacks in trying to overcome those struggles (even if those tactics are disagreed upon).
For instance, Kola and Tiger Woods are BOTH racially half black. But I don't really consider Tiger Woods as black. To me he is mixed, mulatto, whatever you wish to call him. From what I've personally seen myself, he distances himself from us and embraces white society (more than Black AND Thai...hell, you'd think he'd at least be more Thai if he has to be something other than black, but...) Anyways, hardly a brother of mine.
The same with Mariah and Nicole Richie. I don't care if they were fully HALF black, or even 3/4, their choices in acquaintances, friends, mates, etc., show that they're not too keen on being associated with us... Until a record/movie/TV show needs to be done. In their cases, they ARE culturally black, but only when there's money in it.
A large part of the problem is that there are these people who call themselves black (mostly when it's convenient), who refuse to mate with blacks, who will have children who don't look black with their NON-black mate, will raise them as NON-black, will have them befriend other NON-blacks as peers/friends, and they're introduced to the world as the "IDEAL BLACK" person.
And then we wonder why others have such a problem with black people. Because the rest of the world doesn't want US Blacks. They want THOSE blacks, about whom they can say: "I'm not racist, see my best friend is black", "I'm not racist, I hire black people", even though that person was raised with values like their own, in neighborhoods like their own, and more importantly, who look like their own.
Anyways, I would go on...but I'm already ranting. I'm sure you get the gist of what I'm saying:
If you feel "icky" arguing about better treatment for black people, if none of your real friends (ie, not business associates) are black, if you have to wonder if you should check black on a job application for affirmative action or white for social acceptance, if you get stares when you DO stand next to a black person because no one can believe you're together.....chances are you ain't black. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 725
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 12:53 am: |
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Then you really are confusing me brotha. What do you want to her from the "horse's mouth"? It sounds, to me, that you're saying she needs to claim blackness in order to (a) be considered black and (b) capitalize off blackness. Now, I agree that those who are not black shouldn't be able to capitalize off blackness so freely, particularly like how Mariah has. But if you feel that all she has to do is acknowledge being black in order to be accepted (considered black) and or capitalize off it, that's where you and I disagree. SHE'S NOT BLACK... no matter what she says/acknowledges. So my questions are: what do you wanna hear from the horse's mouth? And why?
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 726
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 12:54 am: |
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The last post was for Yukio. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 914
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 02:54 am: |
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Tonya:
I'm saying that she should be true to her rhetoric. Thats all! If ya gonna lie do a good job of it...follow through...She didn't even have the decency to do that! Even if she said that she was black, I would never say that she was culturally black. Also, I never said that "all she has to do is acknowledge being black in order to be accepted (considered black) and or capitalize off it." As stated above, if ya gonna claim something follow through...this on principle...I prefer respect con artist than a disrespectful con artist...this doesn't change the fact that they are con artist! I don't know if this makes sense... |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 915
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 03:03 am: |
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I prefer a respectful con artist rather than a disrespect con artist... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 730
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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Yukio:
I would never say that she was culturally black.
Tonya:
What kind of black would you say she is. And don't try to bullshit me. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2909
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 01:39 pm: |
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Well, I confess to being "old school" because back in the day we didn't challenge people's blackness, we outed it! And we didn't do this on the basis of skin color. We did it on the texture of a person's hair. No matter how hard somebody tried to be something else, once other "negroes" detected their nappy hair, smirks and knowing looks would be exchanged and implicit in this silent language was the idea that "you ain't foolin nobody. We know what you are!" And, yes, there are those who would say that some Jews have kinky hair, but that didn't matter to us. It just went without saying that one black person could always tell another black person, and those who were trying to pass for white always feared other blacks because of this. Now I know things have changed since then, but one thing that hasn't changed, as far as I am concerned, is that nobody has a monopoly of the definition of blackness and there is certainly no consensus of what constitutes blackness, so all anybody is doing is expressing an opinion based on their own personal litmus test. I, myself, say that if one parent is black and the other one is something else, then it can't be denied that you are half black. All the cultural requirements are superfluous because black people throughout the world have different cultures but their blackness is constant. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 733
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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But I'm confused, what happened to the"everchanging flux" and "gumbo soup", let 'em change... remember? Well, that's what's happening -- things are changing...
just not like you thought.
But, no, no, no, no! We're not at all concerned about "outing" it; no, quite the opposite - you see. By all means, "pass" -- that's the plan -- we want nothing more... walk on! The rest will just have to have their soup elsewhere...
Cuz times are changing.... Ya see...
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2910
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 04:22 pm: |
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Who is "we"? Speak for yourself, Tonya. The whole point is that there is no common mentality about what constitutes blackness. There are only self-appointed arbitrators like you. There will be no single path from the axel of blackness; the spokes will go in many directions, something neither you nor I can control because in the present, it's all about individuality. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 734
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 05:13 pm: |
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Cynnique: ...in the present, it's all about individuality.
Tonya: (Please) Don't make me laugh.
Look at it this way: There will be the blackened salmon served with a veriaty of authentic side dishes; and, there will be the gumbo soup.
And who knows... it'll be all good!
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 916
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 06:16 pm: |
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I would call her biracial. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 735
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 06:29 pm: |
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Clever. And sexy, too. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2911
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 06:34 pm: |
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But, but, I'm confused, Tonya. Please translate your analogy for me. It was more mumbo than gumbo. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 291
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 11:35 am: |
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Renata:
--IMO, a black person is a person who is AT LEAST half or more black, AND identifies with black people and culture, AND doesn't reinforce the white supremacist's idea of what black people are or what we should be, AND who understands the struggles of blacks, AND identifies with/supports blacks in trying to overcome those struggles (even if those tactics are disagreed upon).--
WOW! You said it better than I did!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 918
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 02:16 pm: |
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Clearly these issues are complicated, and there is no fixed definition of socalled blackness.
So, lets get down to the nitty gritty....Rosa Parks, as we know, is recently deceased. We know her as the "Mother of the Civil Rights Movement." Historically speaking, we also know that she was not the first person to refuse to resist segregated busing. And, in fact, her case was chosen by E.D. Nixon because her propriety was, according to whites, unquestionable....We know this!
The question IS, was Rosa Parks black? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 738
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
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I would call her mixed. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2912
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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Rosa Parks was the secretary of her local branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People(NAACP), so it's safe to say she was a conscientous woman of color. No? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 920
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
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She was also the adviser to the NAACP's youth group. Yes, I would agree that she was conscious, but is this sufficient to consider her "black"?
Is it interesting that the "mother of the civil rights movement"'s blackness is questioned because she was fair skinned. How does one know how to define blackness, anyway? According to US racism, one drop of negro blood places you in the black race. But wasn't this, ODR, a political strategy that was codifed to opress folk who were "black" politically, economically, and socially. Yet, what do we do when we know that there is only one race....the human race. What do we do when we know that there is no such thing as being mixed, biracial, multiracial, etc...
This is so complicated, no? According to Renata, it seems, Park meets the requirements. But for Tonya, for whatever reasons, Rosa Parks is mixed.
Which do we go by, the racist or the colorist/racialist? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 921
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 11:19 pm: |
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btw, I am not calling renata nor tonya racist or colorist/racialist. Racist...ODR and racial superiority of one group over another; Colorist/racialist emphasize color, but they do not elevate one group over another. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 776
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 11:41 pm: |
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Yukio,
I Love Rosa Parks with all my heart. But I don't see her as a black woman. I see her as "mixed" as well----BECAUSE SHE WAS MIXED.
You also wrote:
Is it interesting that the "mother of the civil rights movement"'s blackness is questioned
TO ME--Fannie Lou Hamer is the Mother of the Civil Rights Movement...and as you mentioned, little dark skinned teenager Claudette Colvin sat on a bus, refusing to give up her seat and being arrested the year before Rosa.
The NAACP and White Media crowned Rosa with that title, because she fit the image they wanted---but there has been CONSIDERABLE uprising by black leaders and historians who feel that Fannie Lou Hamer was the actual mother
because she was fair skinned.
Light skin is not FAIR...and dark skin is not UNFAIR.
I get so sick of that racist b.s.
Talk about a White Supremacist word tool.
How does one know how to define blackness, anyway?
Well apparently, Black Americans are the only people on earth who--because of the slave plantation--are struggling with it.
The rest of us, on both sides, know what a black person is.
What you're going to be faced with...is that the DIASPORA is much larger than Black America and that millions of people from actual Black countries---nations that are 30 times older than America---are not going to accept your slave master's definitions.
And not only that, but many Black Americans younger than 30....are increasingly rejecting the idea that anyone who wants to claim blackness is automatically black.
NON-Black women who have children with black men, are forming whole new classifications to save their kids from being black----and since a good deal of their offspring do not look black, ie. Rosario Dawson, Vin Diesel and others....
it's going to be a lot different without SLAVERY to force everyone into the same boat.
Authentic Blacks are already becoming angry as they realize that they're still at the bottom, still disenfranchised while everyone steals their identity and pretends to be them.
If Rosa Parks were born in 2005, YUKIO---there would be no need for a woman who looks like her to be concerned with "racial" injustice.
She would be free of the Black Community in general---because there's no segregation.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 777
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |
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If Africa, Yukio...irregardless of genetic makeup....if you LOOK Black, you're black.
If you look half-caste, you're mixed.
If you look White, you're white (Arabs and Latinos being white as well).
I--technically am biracial---but I LOOK Black, so I am black.
This way....we have Mixed Race and White Africans.
But they are NOT black.
They belong more to the Outsiders...than to US.
And then as well, you have the True Africans who will have the rule that you must be BORN from the blood of an African tribe to be African or carry the mother's name from a tribe or both.
Which makes it virtually impossible for a White person to be African.
THIS IS THE BLACK MAN'S STANDARD...from long before he was a slave.
I know you'll discount and ignore it, because you're so hung up on forcing us to see a "CULTURAL definition" that died when Segregation died.
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Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 85
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 06:22 am: |
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Kola, I love you sis, but have to understand that there are African America families in this country that have family members who would be "authentic" black and some who would looked "mixed" as you would say. We as Black Americans, simply CANNOT afford to only show love and respect for "authentic" blacks and act like the "mixed" looking blacks don't exist, that would be devastating. Those "mixed" looking blacks are out brothers and sisters, it is not their fault, that their ancestors were raped. WE ARE ONE!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 922
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 09:05 am: |
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Kola Boof: I proposed the question to get the response that I sought. It shows how incompatible your notion of black is with the history of African Americans (US blacks and the Caribbean). It shows, for lack of a better word, how unstable the notion of black is. And finally, it shows how you and could not really be embraced by a large section of New World Africans because you reject their history.
Personally, it doesn't matter how was the mother of the civil rights movement. I would probably character Fannie Lou Hamer as the mother of the civil rights movement, too! But not because of her color...because of her work!
What you don't understand is, even when many dark skinned folk are angry with light skinned people, they can still differentiate the issue from color, on the one hand, and the person's race.
What is happening is, as Africans populate this country different notions of blackness will be engaged. And New World Africas, themselves don't even get along, will have to address continental Africans' notions of black. People who know very little of American history...the next 100 years will be interesting....I feel like Prof. Rustang...lmao!
Cheers |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 923
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 09:16 am: |
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Kola Boof: I understand that ideas, and therfore identities, are embedded in their own history.
I appreciate the history lesson, ie "THIS IS THE BLACK MAN'S STANDARD...from long before he was a slave." You forget, we have had this conversation before. And, I know a little African history...and finally, I know more than quite a few continental Africans, across the continent, from South, the West, East, and the North....At any rate, I don't discount nor ignore your position, I merely disagree with it being the standard for all people identifying themselves as black. Just because it was the standard before black folks were slaves (you really mean transatlantic slavery for slavery is an old enterprise) doesn't it has any significance here...I would surmise that Africans threw away that socalled standard during US and Caribbean chattel slavery. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 749
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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Blkamericanking:
...it is not their fault, that their ancestors were raped.
Tonya:
Their ancestors were raped LOOOOONG ago. They should be black, again, by now! The reason they're not is because one parent (or both) HATED blackness that much -- they wanted high yellow babies. They're born out of hate!
Tonya |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 745
Registered: 07-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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Tonya,
I never wrote that, based on science, women of ALL races must look the same to be deemed beautiful--it's impossible. However, based on science, a female who has a proportionate body shape and a symmetrical facial structure are proven to attract the opposite sex more often--regardless of race/color. Get it straight, Tonya.
Consider this, I don't share my opinion based on whether or not you validate it nor do I care if it means "nothing" to you. And I'm not a racist. I know it's a convenient term to throw out because you don't know how to deal with me and those who think like me--and I know you have developed prejudices because of this--but please. Find a better excuse.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 750
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 10:11 am: |
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Yukio:
Personally, it doesn't matter who was the mother of the civil rights movement. I would probably character Fannie Lou Hamer as the mother of the civil rights movement, too!
Tonya:
You can't have two mothers....
And even if you could, how UNFAIR would it be to only show one of them love?
I guess the fair skin gets the fair treatment.
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 924
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 10:51 am: |
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Tonya: You and Kola's usage of "fair" is cute, but nothing else.
The issue here is, whether black is determined by phenotype alone. For Kola and you, this is the case. For others it is not. Simple, no? For some of us, it is enough to acknowledge differences in interpretation but maintain their own opinion, for others of us, there is only way, and for others there are different interpretations which become relevant based on place, time, people...I fall in the latter camp! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 751
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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Moonsigns:
I'm not a racist. I know it's a convenient term to throw out because you don't know how to deal with me and those who think like me--and I know you have developed prejudices because of this...
Tonya:
What???
I'm "playing the race card", Moonie?????
That shit's suppose to scare me??????????????
You bastards developed a phrase that was designed to put us niggaz in our places.. by making the accusation and accusers of racism seem uninformed, out of touch with reality, one-dimensional & conspiracy-minded, extremist, unprofessional, slow, incompetent, unqualified, uncultured, unaware, and lacking class........... CUTE!
Sew, I guess I shood think fo next time I fix reddy ta Kawl yoo owt, Moonie. Shooldn't Kawl yoo a raysist no mow - huh, Moonie?
...Woodn't wanna seem like an unedicated Negro....
_________
Well, I ain't scared, Moonie.
The "race card" stratagem doesn't disengage me.... So, I'll continue calling it like I see it.. you racist, skinheaded, white trash, Nazi!
YOU GOT THE WRONG NIGGA, REDNECK!
Tonya
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 746
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 12:26 pm: |
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Tonya:
"I'll continue calling it like I see it.. you racist, skinheaded, white trash, Nazi!"
MOONSIGNS:
Do as you please. Reality is relative. And I know better.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2918
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 01:21 pm: |
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It never ceases to amuse me how Tonya seeks to threaten people she feels are attempting to scare her - like this is someplace other than a web site in cyber space. Snap out of it Tonya! Ignore that voice in your head telling you that Moonie and her posse know where you live. Got your uzi ready, just in case? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 782
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 02:49 pm: |
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BlackAmericanKing:
Kola, I love you sis, but have to understand that there are African America families in this country that have family members who would be "authentic" black and some who would looked "mixed" as you would say
KOLA:
And it's that way in some African families, too!!
And we, too, are ONE.
My father was white and I was dark brown and my mother was charcoal and my aunt was RED.
But we don't hallucinate that everybody is black.
Why not just hallucinate that you're all WHite?
Please tell me...
Why can't Cicely Tyson get credit for her one drop of White blood?
Your system is fucked up, because it only benefits whites and lights!
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 783
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 03:03 pm: |
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YUKIO wrote:
You and Kola's usage of "fair" is cute, but nothing else.
And your usage of it is racist...and is just one more White Man's habit that you embrace and inflict.
You're not even smart enough to see that the word "Fair" being applied to Whiteness and Lightness is as racist as the word "BLACK" being assigned all meanings of evil and darkness---yet you want me to claim a BUFFER race to place above myself and call them "fair skinned"?
Do you ever think about the shit you're saying?
It shows, for lack of a better word, how unstable the notion of black is. And finally, it shows how you and could not really be embraced by a large section of New World Africans because you reject their history.
Bullshit.
I've written whole books about the history of the Black Americans.
What I AM pointing out...is the "standards" they received from their SLAVE MASTER---and it's HIM that I don't respect.
Can you actually read these posts?
He uses these standards, such as "one drop rule" to create a BUFFER, lighter-whiter group WITHIIN THE FAMILY...who are given favor over the authentic Black members.
Because of this PLANTATION STANDARD....Black Americans seek out to procreate their children as light and mixed as they can.
I am trying to destroy that PLANTATION STANDARD so that Blacks can embrace their Blackness---and so that it can stop being passed into Africa, where bleaching creams and skin-lightening pills are now a threat to innocent African teens who believe everything MEN LIKE YOU espouse, second hand from your WHITE MASTER's STANDARD.
If anybody doesn't have respect for Western Hemisphere Blacks....it's you.
Slavery ended in 1865.
Blacks should be Black again by now, as Tonya said.
But this POISONED thinking that you defend and promote...encourages them to keep bastardizing themselves more and more, to the point where they aren't really black people anymore.
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Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 03:59 pm: |
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Blacks should be black again by now?. I disagree because I believe there are more blacks in America who have Native America and or European ancestry than there are "authentic" blacks. From my understanding the majority of the Africans brought to America were males and they were mixing with Native America women, so my point is the idea that Black Americans should be "authentic" black today makes no sense.
Kola,
If you truly want to connect with "authentic" blacks, then you should reach out to the blacks in the Caribbean and Brazil, which is where millions and millions of "authentic" blacks live. Black America in general will never become "authentic" black. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 785
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 04:31 pm: |
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From my understanding the majority of the Africans brought to America were males and they were mixing with Native America women, so my point is the idea that Black Americans should be "authentic" black today makes no sense.
This BULLSHIT that you get from your colorstruck fathers and your High yellow mothers.
And the MAJORITY of Black Americans are more African than anything else....and are not lightskinned.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 752
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |
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***I'm not a racist. I know it's a convenient term to throw out because you don't know how to deal with me and those who think like me--and I know you have developed prejudices because of this--but please. Find a better excuse.***
That would apply to you, too, House Nigger.
You may not wanna be hasty and start getting your "uzi" together... but you damn sure need to recognize when your ass is being deactivated and besieged.
That bitch said, "FIND A BETTER EXCUSE" --
as if racism is a goddamn "excuse"....
And how convenient is it to have at your disopsal such a cute little jingle, which debases, dehumanizes, silences, and, ultimately, modifies those who've had enough, and suffer from psychological cruelty and self-doubt anyway?
But I don't expect you to understand because you're the very idiot that idiom was made for. "RACE CARD, NIGGA!"
Tonya
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 786
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 04:35 pm: |
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Between 1900 and 1925,
more than HALF of the Black American population could be classified as "Blue Black".
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2922
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 04:58 pm: |
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Oh pipe down, Tonya. You don't command all of the venom and exertion you imagine people are aiming at you because anybody with any perception can tell that you are too nutty and obsessed to be taken seriously. Oooooh. Should I duck??? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2923
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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So what's your point, Kola? This is 2005. Besides that, as you have inadvertantly acknowledged while doing your routine boo-hooing over seventy something year-old Cycely Tyson, having dark skin does not mean you don't have white blood in you. White blood can manifest itself in other ways. All you do is yap out of both sides of your mouth. blue black, high yellow, me right, you wrong, they look this way, those look that way, waa-waa-waa. |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 60
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:30 pm: |
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Blkamericanking:
How do your beliefs about this "mythical" integrated Black America allow you to classify the children of Black women who marry men who are not Black? I seem to remember your post on another thread declaring women who did such as the enemy...NOT your sisters. Do you remember? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 748
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:37 pm: |
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Tonya,
When you call me a racist simply because you disagree with interracial marriage, it is an excuse.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 787
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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The point was, CYNIQUE....black people in this country did not come out of slavery as a bunch of MIXED, lightskinned manions.
The overwhelming majority of them were still Blue Black in 1900....5 years after slavery ended and in 1925--they were still roughly 55% Blue Black.
The rest were dark chocolate brown and placed on top of all of them was that small percentage of Mulatto/Octoroon/Quadroon people who formed their own groups in an attempt to keep from swallowed---genetically---by the Blacks.
The self hatred of the Blacks (as loads and loads of books by African Americans, including Frederick Douglass to Wallace Thurman, Zora Neal Hurston and Toni Morrison attest) is what created a "DRIVE" amongst black people....to mix themselves----mating and marrying the lightest they could possibly find (black men married club-footed FAT white women who lurked around chain gangs and coal mines....or white mental patients or white ex-convicts).....and black women were judged almost exclusively by skin color and hair texture---often wearing clothes pins on their noses to slenderize their features.
This is all well documented in COUNTLESS journals, historical manuals, novels, biographys.
In the 1920's, Wallace Thurman was OUTRAGED at Black men openly using the term "I don't haul no caul"---when they were coal themselves, but would not open to love, marriage or procreation with their own kind.
From Miles Davis autobiography to Dinah Washington's to MINES....the story continues.
RAPE is not the cause of the bastardization here.......DELIBERATE castigating of blackness BY BLACKS and their exclusion of the darkest people as mates has created this situation.
So BlkAmeriKing is wrong.
I rest my case.
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Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 61
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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Blkamericanking:
Do you think this discussion is just happening in the U.S? Check out what the Rastafarians are saying...
http://com1.runboard.com/bundergroundvoices.fnibiruislamsolomonicdynasty.t32
http://com1.runboard.com/bundergroundvoices.fhurricanefrances.t24
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 749
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 05:57 pm: |
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Kola,
While I don't doubt that, that happened (what you explained in the post above), you can't possibly assume that ALL people intermarried or formed relationships and procreated for those reasons. In suggesting such, you disregard the human element of male and female relations.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 788
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 06:09 pm: |
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MOON,
As I've always stated....
...interracial LOVE is a natural love that has always existed in the world.
But what is going on....and has gone on...in POST-Colonial, POST-Slavery Black Africa and Black America.....is the seeds of self-hatred, desperation to be accepted, desperation to aquire white genes/chromosones and desperation to self-destruct.
At no time in history have such HUGE NUMBERS of black people (3% is a HUGE number) wanted to marry and love only those OUTSIDE their own group.
This is not natural and it's not LOVE.
And in the year 2005, I don't know how on earth you could possibly believe that your marriage isn't based partly on you being WHITE.
Especially to a West Indian man, the West Indians being even more colorist ("brown'n") than the Black Americans, Somalis and Negro British.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2925
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 06:47 pm: |
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Excuse me, Kola, but slavery officially ended in 1865, not 1895. And with that I rest my case. You can't even get your figures straight. And just who went around and checked to see what percentage of blacks are what color? Instead of contantly reprimanding and accusing and lecturing, just for the heck of it, ask yourself that if dark-skinned people do hate themselves, why wouldn't they, when according to you, their color is why they are treated so badly. So back off with this self-hate thing you keep laying on dark people. Let them live their lives the way they see fit. And contrary to what you keep bleating about, most of them ain't that hung up about their color and are doing all right for themse |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 925
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:01 pm: |
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Kola Boof: Your socalled assertion that "fair" to describe complexion has value. Is it racist, thats a possibility. Your focus on the semantics, however, doesn't substantiate the MAIN issue of the incompatibility of your notion of black with African American history.
That you have written whole books on the history of Black Americans say what? That you wrote books on Black Americans, and?
Your notion of black is incompatible with African American history and in general African Americans. You poor understanding of this history leads you to loose and illogical thinking that has little basis in this country’s history. Let me state my position and then interrogate your points.
I believe your notion of black is incompatible with African Americans, because color was NOT the basis on which belonging to the black race was defined. It is that simple. This has nothing to do with what I believe…this is basic African American history. With that said, colorism is essential to understanding racism. Colorism, as I see, privileges people based on their phenotypical proximity to whiteness, such as skin, hair texture, eye color, etc… Nevertheless, even as colorism did its damage, it DID NOT change the fact, for the most part, that light skinned people or socalled biracial people were treated as belonging to the black race. This is what we call the One Drop Rule. It was a tool to simplify racial categories in order to ensure that white people knew who to exploit.
Now, on to your points:
He uses these standards, such as "one drop rule" to create a BUFFER, lighter-whiter group WITHIIN THE FAMILY...who are given favor over the authentic Black members.
Above, I have stated that the ODR was a political strategy of whites, but I have argued that socalled biracial people were not created as a buffer. I say this because your line of thinking is functionist, which causes you to misrepresent what happened. Although the function of a chair is to sit, the origins of black and white sexual encounters in the Americas was not to create a buffer but for the European to reach an orgasm.
Socalled biracial people were primarily the result of rape as well as cases where black folk consented. Yes, some black folk consented, and yes some white women consented to black men, and yes, some black men raped white women. Yes, yes, yes…but the general tendency was white male rapist and female black slave. If this is the case, biracial folk were created because (1) white men were evil; (2) white men needed labor; (3) and the black woman wanted her child (there were cases where black women purposely miscarried). The first two are more important and trivializes the third, since it was really about what the master wanted. The plantation standard, therefore, was not that of creating a buffer but of a custom that legitimized a white man and woman’s right to rape and exploit black men and women.
Your thinking is loose! Your fixed categorizations fail to consider that the socalled “authentic black” person embraced these biracial offspring not because they looked like the master, but that the offspring was of their own flesh and blood. Socalled authentic blacks, therefore, had to deal with their immediate conditions. And they, therefore, embraced their own offspring, even though they were of a lighter hue. They began to accept the master’s standard of ODR. They did so because of survival, and overtime this notion of being black was internalized so that ODR became the unquestioned basis for being black.
Now, although slavery ended in 1865, the slaves continued to accept the ODR, for it had been law, that was often enforced through murder, whippings, etc… for more than 150 years. Thus, even if Africans in the 17th century equated being black with color, this was no longer the case. This is what you miss. This is why you don’t understand history.
Of course, we know that jim crow continued to enforce the one drop rule and people who identified themselves as blacks had accepted light skinned people or socalled biracial people as black and they had established families, communities, and institutions based on a particular notion of black historically, right or wrong, based on this ODR.
Now, clearly some people believed that white was right, but all black folk didn’t. All black people did not date marry light skinned people because of their color. And even if this is the case, I doubt if they do so with that intent. In other words, because white aesthetics was/is embedded in all of this country’s culture, I’m sure that some black sought biracial women because they accepted these racist values without consciously equating it with whiteness. At any rate, many sought to procreate because of love not color. If we were to believe your view of history, black men and women spent their entire live seeking to marry the light black woman….this is doubtful Again, this doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.
Finally, if blacks procreated based on love, had accepted ODR as the norm for they knew nothing else, and whites made it a point to enforce the ODR if the issue every emerged, then your rhetoric about slavery ending in 1865 has no significance. How can people who think one way return to what the so-called authentic blacks ONCE but no longer believed? Who passed down this notion that color, as you see it, represented an “authentic black” person?
Let me reiterate, the ODR was a racist tool. Colorism is wrong, but African Americans who were victims of colorism condemned colorism and understood how it was different from being considered black. It is disingenuous for you to equate my disagreement with your misunderstanding of history with me accepting and believing in colorism…but this is your way.
Anyway, to deny African Americans their history, the way they lived it, and the experiences that they had no control of, and then deny a considerable amount of people their blackness, people who have died for ‘the struggle’ as black people and lived and treated as black, is egregious.
Finally, I don’t defend colorism, in any way. YOU DO! You are imposing your own standards on people because of your lived experiences with colorism. You are imposing this notion on the authentic black person on people, and I doubt it will be embraced! Since few African Americans understand race as you do, they will not exclude their family, friends, etc…and submit to another form of colorism as you seem to do.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 754
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:11 pm: |
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Moonsigns:
When you call me a racist simply because you disagree with interracial marriage, it is an excuse.
Tonya:
You know goddamn well that's not why I called you a racist, racist bitch.
...So, not only are you a racist... you're a fuckin bold-faced lier, too.
Racist bitch.
But that's how you Neanderthals been getting away with shit for so long...
Racist bitch.
Tonya
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2927
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:14 pm: |
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Handle it, Yukio! I'm tired of arguing about this subject. I'm outta here. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 790
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:21 pm: |
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Have you ever read any of my books YUKIO?
No, you haven't.
Everything you just got through running down is portrayed (identically to YOUR PERSPECTIVE) in my novel "Flesh and the Devil"----a book whose two lead characters are a mulatto man and a mulatto woman, the BLACK heroes of the story.
Once again, you claim I'm IMPOSING...rather than explaining to you "MY WORLD" and what Black FREE Men held as their standards Pre-Colonial, Pre-Slavery.
You asked a question---about Rosa Parks--but then you refuse to accept the ANSWER.
And loss of Phenotype eventually leads to loss of cultural demarcation as well. People can't help but look in the mirror and see the part that is unspoken----and without Segregation to FORCE THEM to see themselves as black-----they will and are beginning to force themselves to see themselves as what they really are.
If you don't want my honest answers, YUKIO---then don't ask me the questions.
And you really do need to READ "Flesh and the Devil"-----I think you'll be shocked that the same Kola on this discussion board.....is the same one who wrote that novel.
My personal beliefs don't necessarily reflect the way I treat and engage others who aren't familiar with my world---and not only that----I have a responsibility to come here and give you what is ME...not what is the White Woman's or the Slave's woman's or Coretta Scott King's view...but what is purely of ME.
It's not my job to tell you what you WANT to hear.
I'm just answering YOUR questions and debating the issues of "colorism" with everyone here as it affects....ALL OF US....who are black, worldwide.
I could give a fuck about being embraced by Black Americans.
You came out of MY BLACK ASS...I didn't come out of yours.
I'm your mother whether you like or not.
That's beyond our control.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 791
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:26 pm: |
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Now that I told YUKIO....here's my final opinion on this thread
The complainer in the original "Desperate Housewives" thread is STILL right.
Almost EVERY white housewife or mother on t.v. is portrayed as Slim, Attractive, Cheerful and has a multi-dimensional personality.
Notice the t.v. commercial white mom or the sitcom white mom----they look like former models and are uniformally thin and attractive----DESPITE the fact that half the White Women in America look more like Ricki Lake or the Fat Lady from "The Practice" and are chubby and or homely.
Notice the RANGE of personalities in White Women that are portrayed on t.v.----almost every kind of woman is shown in a WHITE WOMAN, thereby making her Fully HUMAN and representative of womanhood itself.
Black women (who LOOK black) are more often than not portrayed as FAT angry shrews or no-nonsense asexual bosses or wise church Mammys....or OLD WOMEN (well beyond child bearing age) or little girls.
Naomi Campbell is never hired to play the black mother fetching her children from school.
Kenya Moore is never allowed to play the caring, sexy, sensitive intelligent black wife (If she was, then black males would begin to fantasize about having black wives in her image-----is there anybody here INTELLIGENT enough to see that?).
If the script calls for a "pretty" black woman---then 90% of the time, a High Yellow woman is cast.
On the t.v. show "Girlfriends"....despite the range in color...the darkest of the 4 women is still portrayed as a golddigger/whore/bad mother and conniving person. Just as on the show "Living Single", the darkest one (Max) who still looked African was portrayed as materialistic, all-business, not totally to be trusted. The producers of BOTH these shows are colorstruck barely brown women, of course.
Whether something is MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY has NO MERIT whatsoever.
People ingest and believe in the stereotypes that are presented to them. All of these images of Black women do promote negative, hateful feelings towards Black women....and more so from the Black community itself as it looks for a "scapegoat" to destroy in its quest to attain Whiteness and Acceptance.
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Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 07:28 pm: |
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You do NOT create slaves simply by chaining limbs...you must chain minds. NO self-respecting person WILLINGLY cooperates with being enslaved. So a breaking down process HAS to occur, otherwise the master would constantly be threatened with rebellion. The core factor for dissension and disintegration was and is color. Mixed race groups WERE and ARE created as buffer classes to run interference on behalf of their nonblack parents. That's why the one drop rule was pushed in the direction that it was. It's true that not ALL of those individuals fall into the enemy class, but that number is SMALL---significantly small. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 926
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 11:36 pm: |
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kola: Again, what is the significance of your books? Only you know! If what I portrayed is in your books, then we would come to the same conclusions...we don't so cut the crap!
I accept the validity of your answer, and argue that it is incompatible with African American history. To accept does not mean to agree.
Your answers are only answers. I don't have to agree with them...get over your self!
You are not an authentic black person. Authentic black people are dead..authenicity is no where to be found. Once the first African couple began to travel throughout their region and procreate and then produce other generations with different values, religions, and rituatls, authentiicity was out the door. Time and space and different experience over generations created different people! Your claim to autheniticity is only an attempt to empower yourself and those like you who feel powerless....good luck! Do you speak the original African language...what was it? Where did it originate? Cut the crap...the only people who came from your ass were your children! I'm not your child! Again, tell this rubbish to someone less schooled in African history...I am not a romantic. Don'r confuse my pan-Africanism with a romantic and naive idea about Africa!
You are of East Africa, and as you state, you are mixed, but should we accept your socalled argument that you are authentic because you are dark skinned, but what of your culture it is mixed...you were even raisd by African Americans, so again, are you really authentic? The way you use the term, authenticity loses its value...cause it can apply to anyone with dark skin, even as their parents would be considered nonauthentic, and even when they have no connection to an African or even socalled black culture...your colorism is illogical and nonsensical. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 756
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 11:46 pm: |
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Damn, Yukio! What the fuck was you smokin the last couple of hours, boy? |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 66
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 12:19 am: |
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Kola...keep talkin'...long live authentic Black people!!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 793
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 01:59 am: |
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Excuse me Yukio, but
YOU
cut the crap.
When I spoke of you coming from my ass...I was not speaking of "Kola Boof"....I was speaking of AFRICAN WOMEN.
And your YENTL ass knows that!
And the FACT REMAINS...that if any part of you
is black
or even WHITE for that goddamned matter,
you came out of MY BLACK ASS, I didn't come out of yours.
You and I have NO CHOICE in that point of fact.
It's just the way it is.
And you can talk about America....and your EXPERIENCES in it for 400 years....and how you got your own culture now.....all the fuck you want.
I'm 26,000 years old baby boy!
And your 400 year old
BLACK...NIGGER...PLANTATION...YELLOW ASS
and ROSA PARKS, too...
came from ME.
I didn't come from you.
So don't come telling me all this "diaspora" camelshit when I'm the real true mother of all you sorry motherfuckers!
Shit.
You think that white bitch in New York Harbor is your real mother?
Or some wrinkle faced lice-headed Native American pipe-smok'n TROLLOP whose FAT I-can-sit-on-my-hair ass is now extinct?
Whether you like, abide or detest African people or whatever you FEEEEEEL, my brother---you better get some fucking PERSPECTIVE
some common sense and motherwit
...because you ain't talking 'bout SHIT.
Number two...I have stated more than once on this board that I am not an AUTHENTIC BLACK person.
WHERE did you miss that?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 794
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 02:07 am: |
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What remains
is that I'm more
AUTHENTIC
than you.
No matter how
many kente cloths
you drape over your
shoulder or how
many movies you cast
with grapefruit colored
mulatto princesses
and like most DARK SKINNED
people...I'm tired of not
having representation and
being MIS-represented by
people like you, who HATE
Africa, hate your ancestors
and hate Black folks to begin
with.
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Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 68
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 02:10 am: |
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Kola...
You are as authentic as they come...truly...damn. |
Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:32 am: |
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Yukio,
You are exactly right. Thank you for understanding. I keep trying to tell Kola we can't exclude out light skinned aunts, uncles, cousins etc., those people are our BLOOD. Kola just don't understand the history of Black America. I have relatives who are dark, light and brown skinned, i would NEVER distance myself from any of them.
Blaklioness,
Yes, i remember saying any black woman who is with a white man is no sister of mine and i still feel that way. You are just like Kola, you don't truly understand the history of AmeriKKKa.
Kola,
During slavery, I know there were light skinned blacks who felt they were better than the dark skinned blacks and the dark skinned blacks wanted nothing to do with them. But, there were light skinned blacks who knew their ancestors had been raped and they considered themselves just as black as any dark skinned AA.
I think we can all agree that we have no idea what our people went through during slavery. We would have to really be in their shoes. We have been through 400 years of hell and we are still here going strong. I don't know about black people in other parts of the world, but in America we simply cannot afford to look at each other and say, you're not black enough or you're not authenic black. Kola, the racism you and other Africans suffered from arabs is different from the racism we suffered from White America.By that i mean, there are blacks in East or North Africa who may have an arab grandfather and consider him or herself as an arab i think that's BS. But here in America you don't see light skinned African Americans calling themselves mixed or white. We know who we are and where we are going.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 927
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:40 am: |
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Of course, I know you weren't speaking of "kola boof." Of course, I know you were talkin about Africa. And of course, I knew you were going to respond with the typical 26, 000 year rubbish. Of course, of course, of course...lmao!
We've been here before. You are repeating yourself!
I have never characterized myself as "authentic." I don't need to; I have nothing to prove.
This most typical example of ad hominem indicates that you have an identity crisis. You sound like someone seeking self-approval, support, and self-affirmation...tisk, tisk!
Do you hold the same beliefs and values that the original Africans held?
I don't think so? So if we really consider the meaning of authentic, how authentic are you really? You make me laugh. You don't expect me or anyone to believe that you, Kola Boof, are "authentic" because you are a continental African and dark skinned? If you are 26,000 old and you are authentic, how did you get here, why do you speak so many languages? You are as mixed as I am...lmao!
Finally, I don't claim to be an "authentic black." I wouldn't ever want to fall into the colorism trap that has poisoned your mind. |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 69
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 08:26 am: |
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Blkamericanking:
It appears that black male "wisdom" rears its ugly head again...What the hell are you talking about?? You're so busy jumping that fence, you're getting dizzy! I was born and raised right here on American soil, and I am NOT wearing sociocultural blinders. So, you can't brush me off as some "crazy ass foreigner"...who, by the way, has been telling more truth since she's been here than the average Americanized negro ever will in a lifetime. Let's get REAL...can we? There can be a BIG difference between a light skin that was produced under conditions of rape/force than one that was produced VOLUNTARILY...make no mistake about that. Physical slavery was long enough ago that our genetic "wounds" SHOULD have healed by now...meaning, as a whole, we should be darker than what we are. You know that. But because we transitioned from physical to mental captivity, that's not evident at present. You have "black" individuals who deliberately mate with people who are not black so as to lighten the race, and in order to try to silence darker Blacks, they and their nonblack offspring try to lump their sorry asses in with a bunch of folks who were living under the gun. It ain't gonna work. Lisa Bonet and Lenny Kravitz are NOT telling my story...you can bank on that as you've learned to recently bank on the power of Mother Nature to wipe out whole populations. Original, authentic BULLLACK people still grace this planet (body, mind, and soul), and not all the white supremacist tactics in this world will destroy the Alpha and the Omega.
On top of everything else, you still believe that little old "Afroamerica" is going to survive without the masses of worldwide African/BULLACK people?? Keep on living!
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Afroamerican
Veteran Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 73
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 01:28 pm: |
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Again, the problem with "authenic Black" is that people want to scream about "authenic Blackness" yet have blacks come in "all colors" at the same time.
You can NOT have it both ways!
And by the way, I have read quite a few African message boards, from Nigeriansinamerica, youngafricans, mimi, etc. Africans generally have the same rules that Afro-Americans have. They "accept" **ANYBODY** as long as they claim to be Black or African. There is NO time old tradition of "African standarda" that kola speaks of!
As a whole the Black race has NO STANDARDS which is obvious!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 928
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 01:52 pm: |
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Afroamerican: You mean no standards for determining blackness or no standards at all?
If you mean the former, I would state that since Africans, continental and new world, have been under the gun of EuroAAmerican exploitation, they have had to adapt their cultural, tribal, and national identities to their circumstances.
It is to me, an issue of power. Those in power control what we consider standards, even as they themselve adapt to the less powerful subaltern. Thus, the fact that being white (though really blacks how pass and pale people who are of hispanic and eastern european heritage often complicate the notion of euroamerican understandings of whiteness. thus, destandardizing their standards.) is clear and precise is a result of the euroAmerican's hegemony. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2929
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 02:05 pm: |
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Who empowered dark-skinned people to lay down the law and impose their criteria on others? Who entrusted only dark-skinned people with the legacy of slave descendants when there are other traits and customs which factor into their culture? Dark skinned people do not hold exclusive rights or have a monopoly on the black experience. And who decrees that it's a sin for dark-skinned people to marry a light person for any reason? Furthermore, in spite of how they seek to ennoble themselves, the holier-than-thou authetic blackness crowd doesn't represent an extraordinary mentality but are simply seeking to justifying their existence, something that makes them no more heroic than anybody else who accepts themselves for what they are. And I still say that those who are strangers in a strange land should re-locate to their mother country. America doesn't care about malcontents. And until other non-white racial stocks stop distancing themselves from being black, the Pan Africanism quest ain't going nowhere. |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 76
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 02:42 pm: |
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Yukio, I believe there is NO standard for Blackness nor Africaness period! The only standard I see is to either claim some Black blood or supposely "act Black" (whatever that means).
As I've said perfore, I propose doing what JEWS have done for many years now. Limit "Jewness" to those who are born with Jewish mothers. Which essentially cuts off non-Jews from raising "Jewish Children". Likewise, this new standard would prevent "White" and "Asian" women from raising so call "African-American" children.
I also propose the standard for Africanness should be the same standard Native Americans have been using for quite a while. To be Native American, one must pocess MORE THAN Indian blood. The person must *PROVE* (somehow) some kind of Indian/Native hertiage and then apply for Tribe membership. Likewise, being African should be held to the same standard. If for example an "American" was serious about considering himself/Herself a true African, then he should first research his HISTORY and find out what "tribe/tribes" he orginated from (you most do this to be Native American mind you) and then actually go to that tribe/country and become affliated with it. Ask for membership or whatever.....If you don't "ask" you won't be "African", just like if you don't "ask/have permission" would won't ever be a card carrying indian in the United States! In this way the Native Americans demand people(their DESCENDANTS) to respect their culture-or whats left of it anyway!
________________
With these kinds of standards we could do away with running around in circles about "who's really black" and "who's really african". We would also be putting emphasis on our BLACK ethnicities/CULTURES/HISTORIES (much of the same respect that you hear people speak of when they talk about their German, Greek, Irish, Mexican, Japanese) hertiage......
Maybe instead of just hearing stories about the treatment of "African slaves" people might actually start talking about "Wolof tribes" "Igbos" "Dinkas" "Congos" etc. (or at least Ghanians, Sengelases, Zambians etc).
Men would also start realizing that marrying non-Blacks will CUT YOU OFF from your HISTORY/PEOPLE/LEGACY. Quincy Jone's 5 white wives will automacity END HIS LEGACY as a "Black man" in America. Only with this new standard can Black woman produce his Black sons! Also, only then will Black men value Black women like White men value their White women! Just look throughout history and look at all the trouble White men have gone though to ensure that non-Whites did not "ruin"/touch is White women!
Yukio, "authenic Black" to me are people with BLACK MOTHERS. People that layed in Black women's stomachs for 9 months, and that nursed on Black breast milk. Authenic Blacks are people raised in various Black TRIBES/ETHNICITIES around the world.........I do not believe authenic Black means dark skinned! From what I've been hearing from Africans on messageboards themselves, half of Africa is NOT dark skinned! Many are "high yellow" to medium Brown!(this is what everyone is saying at least). So from what I've been hearing Blacks come in many color ranges and phenotypes. My fight is with LOYALTY! Being loyal and not forgetting your history or having it taken away from you by Multiracialism mostly (meaning having our people become like Noami Campbell and Tyson beckford who rather be 1/8 or 1/16 Asian than a FULL BLOOD/ 100% JAMICIAN)! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 763
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 02:45 pm: |
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***...people want to scream about "authenic Blackness" yet have blacks come in "all colors" at the same time. You can NOT have it both ways!***
Yes you can. Authentic blacks do come in all shades of blackness. I have lightskinned friends who are more culturally and just as phenotypically authentic as I am. Eventhough I'm darkskinned and I, unmistakably, look black/African, my facial features are thin. Also, I don't have the body of most authentic black women -- my ass is flat and I do not have any curves. Some of my lightskinned girlfriends have all of that and they have fuller facial features. That makes them as phenotypically authentic as me. as far as being culturally authentic, all of my lightskinned girlfriends know how to cook meals, for example, like collard greens, baked macaroni & cheese, baked ham, and all the old southern dishes like okra soup -- I can't make any of that. Unless I'm visiting with them or with family members, I usually don't eat those kind of foods. Because of my darkskin I am darker (i.e. blacker) than them, but I'm not more authentic than they are.
*USUALLY* when I use the term "lightskinned" on these boards I'm talking about non-authentic looking lightskinned people -- the ones who come close to looking biracial or non-black.
Tonya |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:15 pm: |
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Tonya, I believe you speak of "authenic Black" as a CULTURAL standard.
I also believe others on this board speak on it in context of it as a physical standard to measure blackness! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 795
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:16 pm: |
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AfroAmerican,
You are really misguided on 1 thing.
YOU NEED TO GO TO AFRICA...it is OVERWHELMINGLY chocolate fudge to midnight black.
Even in Ethiopia.
**Have you ever wondered why American T.V. focuses on the light skinned people in Ethiopia.....but then you watch the RELAY MARATHON RACE on t.v.....and all the Ethiopian runners are blue black with nappy hair?
YOU NEED TO VISIT AFRICA....real bad.
You only go by "message boards" where Americanized Skin Bleachers congregate---these people live in London and New York----the self hating Africans who wish to be "light" in the first place???
The real true masses of African people have no access to a COMPUTER INTERNET!!!!
You make the assinine statement that there is no African standard for blackness.
Have you ever read the great African scholars:
Chinua Achebe
Wole Soyinka (who won the Nobel Prize)
Chinweizu
O'Bitek
THESE ARE AUTHENTIC BLACK MEN. Have you ever taken a moment to READ what our greatest Scholars have to say?
If you do...you will suddenly discover where Kola Boof's ideology comes from.
Have you not seen the films of the Father of African Cinema---Ousmane Sembene?
I am the daughter of these men.
And the Dark Skinned people are the BLACK PEOPLE....and the Black Africans are nearly uniform in color and OVERWHELMINGLY dark skinned.
It's amazing how because I'm an "African Woman".....what I have to say
has no merit.
Like so many African women, I am beginning to see that the Black American MALE is an even bigger enemy than the White man.
And you're just as stupid as you were 500 years ago, when you sold my children into slavery and made the same selfish remarks, the same arrogant "theories"....back then.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 750
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:21 pm: |
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TONYA:
You know god****** well that's not why I called you a racist, racist bitch."
MOONSIGNS:
Other than not liking IR couples, I really don't know what your issue is. I know what I am and what I am not. Think what you like--I know better.
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Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:23 pm: |
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Kola, I honestly don't think the top 3% ruling class, phd, African class (basically the most EDUCATED/WEALTHY) can speak for "everyday Africans". When I visit message boards I DO actually speak with everyday/normal African peoples who about my age! So I take that as more valid!
That's kind of like using Malcolm X as a figurehead for how Black Americans think. Yes Malcolm was Black American, but he was a revolutionary! I think these men you speak of are in the same boat. They do not "represent" everyday Africans, again. |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 72
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:27 pm: |
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I strongly suggest that ALL Black Americans do more traveling on the continent. I traveled to Ghana and Ethiopia and don't recall a whole lot of yellow faces---mainly brown to dark in complexion. I hope to see Mali and Senegal as well.
Kola,
Shall we add Ayi Kwei Armah to that list? |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |
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Also kola, I respect you most of all because you are an African woman. My only problem is that I see contractions about Africa and black people in general from what you're saying........ |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 799
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:43 pm: |
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When I visit message boards I DO actually speak with everyday/normal African peoples who about my age! So I take that as more valid!
These are "Been-To". Meaning they have been influenced by outside cultures.
You're also discounting that EXTRA-HIGH self-hatred that Africans have once they're placed in Eurocentric settings. These people on the African messageboards are bleaching their skin and trying to be "Black American".
Have you not noticed that?
They are not a reliable sample of what Africa is.
And any African who can afford to sit at a PC is not FROM the masses.
Are you saying that Ralph Ellison and Richard Wright and John Edgar Wideman are not valid speakers for Black American culture and standards???
Have you ever listened to Fela Kuti's song "Yellow Fever"???
And if you have.....can you honestly claim that Africans have no standard?
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 160
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:45 pm: |
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"And until other non-white racial stocks stop distancing themselves from being black, the Pan Africanism quest ain't going nowhere."
It starts with us. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 765
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:46 pm: |
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Also, let's not forget, out of all the authentic blacks, the lighter ones are usually more accepted in our communty and others. I, personally, would like to see us represented (in the media) by those authentics who are authentic in terms of features and skin color. In other words, darkskinned athentics. Marita Golden stated that we (AAs) need to adopt a standard of beauty. I agree wth her a trillion percent; and I think that stardard chould start with darkskinned authentic blacks -- Full facial features: lips, nose, cheek bones, ect.; and traditional body features: backsides muscle tone ect. That's my opinion.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 800
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 03:52 pm: |
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And don't forget...
KOLA is a "been to" as well.
My womanism is NOT AFRICAN.
My whole career is against the character of what is normal for African women.
Have you not noticed that?
I would be considered radical to most Africans, because I'm doing what a man does (but not because I want to---but because I'm forced to step up to the plate).
And the contradictions you are finding is because you are speaking to the Pogo Niggers.
If you seek out the people like Fela Kuti and the great African men scholars....you will get the real truth from those of us who are not niggers.
Do you not see the contradictions between niggerstock (Puff Daddy, 50 Cent, Lil Kim, Montel Williams, Clarence Thomas)
......and the true blacks? (Malcolm X, Denzel, Maya Angelou, Lauryn Hill, Wyclef)
You're taking the Pogo Niggers--the skin bleachers and blond wig wearers as the voice of the African, and they're not.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 751
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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KOLA:
"At no time in history have such HUGE NUMBERS of black people (3% is a HUGE number) wanted to marry and love only those OUTSIDE their own group."
MOONSIGNS:
With consideration that interracial love is a "natural LOVE" (as you've suggested), if 3% is too high, what percentage do you find acceptable?
KOLA:
"And in the year 2005, I don't know how on earth you could possibly believe that your marriage isn't based partly on you being white."
MOONSIGNS:
And in the year 2005, considering all the social progress that HAS been made, I don't know how on earth you could possibly believe that my marriage isn't based on love--if you truly believe that is, that interracial love is as "natural" as you've suggested.
Though there are individuals who love and marry for the wrong reasons, there are those that don't. The problem with your thinking is that there's no balance-- you automatically assume each black person who intermarries does so for the wrong reasons--and that they "love only those outside their own group". And that just is not the case.
Lastly, my husband is American-born. His father is West Indian--and--he is married to a BROWN woman--and--he would NEVER marry a white woman or any other non-black woman. You assume way too much, Kola. Way too much!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 766
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:21 pm: |
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MOONSIGNS:
Other than not liking IR couples, I really don't know what your issue is. I know what I am and what I am not. Think what you like--I know better.
Tonya:
Moonsigns, for some reason you think I don't like IR couples... and you probably think I have a problem with you because of it. When did I say that. THAT'S NOT TRUE. My opinions about self-hate and the black community are my opinions. I DON'T DISLIKE ANYBODY. You have the wrong image of me. I have IR couples, biracial people, and light/mixed people in my family. Last summer I spent the whole time in Florida WITH MY WHITE SISTER-IN-LAW. During my teens I spent a lot of time and was damn near raised by my BIRACIAL sister-in-law. I have biracial nieces nephews cousins ect. My Step-father (the father of SEVEN of my siblings) was a white looking half Jewish man. ALLLL of my close girlfriends (except 2) are white, lightskinned, light brown, and some are biracial, or look biracial. Until recently, Two of the guys I saw occasionally were WHITE men. In recent years I've dated several Asian men. Two of my BEST friends are a IR couple (an Asian women and a white man).
I don't hate you, sweetie -- I'm just giving my opinions.
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 929
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
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And we have it; there are standards, I believe, none that can be agreed upon. This is the result of our different histories. Like it or not Kola's notion of an authentic black is incompatible with African Americans. And African Americans' notion of black is incompatible with Kola's. It is that simple. To argue that socalled African Americans are the progeny of Africans is a fact, no? But, to argue that African Americans reject their history and cultural values is unacceptable. It is, similarly, unacceptable for African Americans to impose their notion of blackness on Africans. Our notion does not fit with their history...this again is simple. I believe, as I've stated in the past, that these engagements are necessary, for West Indians, Africans, and African Americans are getting to know eachother in a more intimate way than in the past. In order to facilitate coalition building we need to know what connects us and what differs and embrace and respect both. That is the hard part! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2932
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:31 pm: |
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Well, Kola, there is a vast silent black majority out there yet to be heard from. Those who visit chat rooms and discussion boards are the vocal minority. Nobody really knows what secretly goes on in the heads of millions of passive, ordinary, everyday black folks. I can sit down at a bridge party with 8 cards players and each one will have a different opinion about the subject of race. I can stand in line in a grocery store and strike a conversation with strangers and come away stimulated by the variety opinions I've heard from black people of all colors. I can go to a village board meeting and hear black people talking among themselves, saying things about fellow black folks that even white bigots wouldn't say out loud. I can talk to my black school teacher friends and come away shaking my head, discouraged yet hopeful. Once again it all goes back to the plain truth: there is no such thing as a typical Afro-American. All these on-line forums do, is pit like-minded people against other like-minded people. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 767
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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Yukio:
To argue that socalled African Americans are the progeny of Africans is a fact, no? But, to argue that African Americans reject their history and cultural values is unacceptable
Tonya:
THAAAAT'S Bullshit! First off, we can still acknowledge our history while learning about theirs. And Let's not forget, alot of our history/culture comes from them. My mother, aunts, uncles, older cousins, are from the south; and, I swear to god, some of the things Kola says and the way she says them reminds me of them. Their culture is VERY african. The foods they eat, the colors they like to wear, their mannerism ect. Secondly, we do reject all of this. I remember moving up north from the south as a child and my sisters & I got teased mercilessly by my cousins and other children for being too "geechy." And AAs have been distancing themselves from Africa (and blackness) since slavery.
I don't get where you're coming from.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 807
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:07 pm: |
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Tonya,
When I first came to this country---
I swear to God.
I thought the Black Americans were WEST AFRICANS.
The fed me nothing but AFRICAN food---pan fried fish, greens, okra, watermelon, cornbread, yams
Africans eat YAMS to ward off sickle cell
...and then I watched the "caravan procession" during SOUL TRAIN.
West African!!!
Black Americans act so much like African people....the gold jewelry, the ceremonial acting out, the SPEECH patterns, Southern Dialects, Jive talk.....it's all AFRICAN.
So called "Rap" music has been in West Africa for thousands of years. It's called "Tasso"----only it is used to give religious and political messages ONLY. Along with the Drum, "Tasso" was used by the men to communicate at Festivals and Ceremonies addressing their neighbors, enemies or visitors with "pressing issues".
Today, they have Tasso contests and the White People RECORD and SELL IT.
It's RAP music.
Black Americans have that same Big, Fat BOOTY (de Dukan) that West African females have.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 808
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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Tasso is a Senegalese word from the "Wolof" tribe.
BlakLioness,
I am so glad you are going to Senegal.
This is the country in Africa that loves Black Americans the most...and are very emotional about Black American people.
They are the #1 "relative" from which your people taken (Senegal and Gambia together, which were once called Senegambia).
Ghorree Island is in Senegal.
You will be grabbed and kissed on the streets.
When you get off the plane in Dakkar---a man from the Government will be there to greet the BLACK AMERICANS and ONLY the Black Americans. He will say: "Welcome home..."
You will go to restaurants where Senegalese women will not allow you to pay for your meals (or will make WHITES get up so that you can sit down). ASK ANYONE...who has been to Senegal. It's on the house.
And let me tell you something....
when I, Kola Boof, went to Senegal. I pretended to be a straight up Black American.
Because they weren't going to treat a Sudanese like that.
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Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:12 pm: |
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Tonya, why can't we all just get along?
My god!
I don't think AA's purposely try to distance themselves from Africa. In truth they simply have little knowledge ABOUT Africa. This is what starts the confusion I believe: I beleive most West African children learn about the horrors of the slave trade in school. I think the teachers teach them that "Africans" were taken abroad and speak to the children as if Black Americans still consider themselves Africans (in general). I think they do this to make the children have a sense of accomplishments when they see famous Black faces on tv or read about someone doing something outstanding from other parts of the world. I think what messes so many of them up is when they come to America and realize that most of these people they learned about in school do not see themselves as "Africans" but simply "Blacks". So many Africans feel (wrongly) "rejected".
As I said earlier, I believe African hertiage should be treated like Native American hertiage where you should have to research and FIND your ancestry and then go and get "accepted" into a tribe! I do not believe teachers should "teach" that anybody with slave ancestors are Africans in the Disapora (like many of them do from what I've been gathering on the internet).........
Also, as I've said like a zillion times it is soooooooooooooo important that Black people accept cultural differences yet they are the SAME PEOPLE! (Just like the Irish, Greeks, Jews and Germans do).
The Igbos and Fulani are both Nigerian tribes. However they do not have to ABOLISH their ethnic groups in order to REMAIN Nigerians. With this "abolishment" all Nigerians would LOSE the history and culture of the "Lost" tribes. Likewise for Afro-Americans, the different West Indian groups, and different African nationalities. Just imagine anyone suggesting "getting rid" of the vase European cultures for the sake of "not having differences". |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 74
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:17 pm: |
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Yukio:
Why are you assuming that there aren't a number of American Blacks who don't feel like Kola? The problem is that people like to dismiss her case as irrelevant purely BECAUSE she wasn't born on American soil. Well, I WAS born here and have seen some of the very same shit...the very same. Africa and African America ain't quite as far apart as you think. |
Blaklioness
Veteran Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:25 pm: |
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Damn Tonya...who knew??! LOL! Where do your real life and posts merge???! LOL! |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:26 pm: |
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lol.
quite a few Sengelese men work at a convient store by my house. They were very, very nice to me! Since I had read some of Kola's post before meeting them I wasn't sure that they were being nice because they were trying to hit on me or that they just liked Black Americans (like kola said).
Anyway, I got locked out of my house one day and I had to sit at their store until my roommate got back to unlike the door. One of the guys let me taste some African tea- which was absolutely GROSS--- by the way. I put so much sugar in it and it still didn't matter, the tea stayed bitter!
He told me all about his country. Some of it I didn't understand what the hell he was saying. i remember him saying everyone's wolof or spoke wolof. He also said like 99% of the people are muslims there and that his family was from a tribe of fishermen! He told me how wonderful living on the coast was!
A few weeks later when I came in the store to buy vinagear he asked me to bring him some of my cooking- lol, which is funny b/c I'm 23 years old, I can't even cook! I ended up not bringing him anything because I cooked Collar greens and pork chops and he's muslim so he couldn't eat the porch chops! |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:30 pm: |
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oh, I forgot!
lol. Everywhere "claims" us......(joking)
But seriously, I've always heard MOST Afro-Americans were taken from modern day Ghana! not Senegal, Nigeria or Gambia. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 770
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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LOL....Blacklioness, People probably think I hate Mixed/light/biracial people and IR caouples but that's not true. I accept them as friends, family members, and people I love (in fact, the person I love most in the world is my is a high yellow female) I just don't think they're black, except for the authentic looking ones.
Tonya |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 810
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:47 pm: |
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AfroAmerican wrote:
I beleive most West African children learn about the horrors of the slave trade in school.
BULLSHIT.
#1--Most West African children can't afford to attend public school. It's 75 cents a week.
Ask MAYA ANGELOU who taught school in Ghana for several years.
#2--Many West African children believe that Black Americans were "Pirate Blacks (criminals)" who built a giant boat and sailed away looking for adventure and more people to rob.
They believe the most atrocious b.s. you can imagine.
___________
West Africans feel rejected and hated by Black Americans....because of LOOKS.
Because of the way "black women" are cast in movies...which is the Black American's way of rejecting the LOOKS of their real natural mother.
For instance...when a West African sees the film "The Color Purple"---they are looking at a film full of West African looking women; which is what the women who were brought here on slave ships looked like.
But a white man made that film from a black woman's novel.
Black American men hate authentic Black African looks and cast MIXED looking women....like Zoe Saldana, Salli Richardson, Halle Berry....and you know how the movies are cast.
Look at "COOLEY HIGH" or any of the "Superfly"....
...especially "SHAFT" movies, which Africans hated. Here was this coal black man always paired with a WHITE WOMAN or a "Tan" woman who might as well have been white.
The message is....the African woman is not GOOD ENOUGH to be our mother, because she's too African.
Black Americans can only celebrate an African woman when she's a Mulatto like the one who starred in "HOTEL RWANDA".
Then they're so happy to embrace and fawn over here. Because she's a bastard and she's yellow.
And your people have not redeemed your ancestors and YOU DO hate them.
Just the way you rose up Rosa Parks over Fannie Lou Hammer was PROOF of how you hate your African ancestors.
I commissioned a Black American to pain a portrait of Sojourner Truth for me. He made her 6 shades lighter than she really was...and I've noticed a lot of that lately. They portray her in cartoons as lighter than she was.
You ALWAYS...ALWAYS try to "whiten" your ancestors.
You hate Harriet Tubman's fat bottom lip and her nose and her nappy hair.
You look at cities full of Black Africans and ask: "Why are they so damned black?"
You don't understand why JAMES on GOOD TIMES would be married to Esther Rolle---who looks like a real West African housewife.
You idolize The Moors--who bred themselves off the planet---and Cleopatra, the greatest enemy Egypt ever had.
You come from West Africa, but you idolize ETHIOPIA and EGYPT, because they have yellow straight haired people.
You hate Africa and Africans know it and we talk about it ALL THE TIME.
And you also have Africans who hate and despise Black Americans.
Especially Ethiopians and Nigerians.
Nigerians hate you because
(1) They're jealous of you.
(2) They have the MOST CONTACT with your media have internalized your self-hatred the most. They KNOW your "standard" and know that they don't fit it.
Ethiopians hate you because
(1) You're a West African!
(2) Your father sold his own people into slavery--they don't care that they did the same thing in the year 700, more than a thousand years ago... and you marry White women (Ethiopians are the one African who detest White women)
(3) Ethiopians don't like anybody who isn't Ethiopian.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 168
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:49 pm: |
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Well, those countries are really close together. Over the years, perhaps the borders changed.
(Actually I think Gambia is even WITHIN Senegal.)
If my geography is correct, I think Ivory Coast and Liberia are also in that general area. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:52 pm: |
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I just looked at a map of West Africa, and they are quite close together.
I must say that I don't know ANYTHING about Guinea-Bissau, Sierra Leone, Togo, or Benin.
I didn't even know that Burkina Faso was in West Africa.
I've met one guy from Guinea, and he looked (to me) more American than African. I'm guessing that in Africa he may have even been considered light skinned (about Will Smith's color).
I could be wrong, that may be the normal color of them (Guineans). |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 811
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:53 pm: |
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Senegal is 45% Muslim and 39% Christian.
Once again...you need to see the films of Ousmane Sembene.
Who is Senegalese and almost 90 now.
He's also the first and greatest BLACK filmmaker in history.
In his film Guelwaar---
a "Christian" Wolof dies and is accidentally buried in the "Muslim" half of the Wolof cemetary.
The two sides must resort to their "African identities" before religion to resolve the conflict.
It's a masterpiece!
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 170
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:57 pm: |
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Sorry, I was answering AfroAMerican. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 930
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:59 pm: |
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Tonya: I also don't get where you are coming from.
I never said that socalled African Americans should forget their African ancestry or African history.
In fact in the same post that you quoted, I stated "I believe, as I've stated in the past, that these engagements (intellectual exchanges) are necessary, for West Indians, Africans, and African Americans are getting to know eachother in a more intimate way than in the past. In order to facilitate coalition building we need to know what connects us and what differs and embrace and respect both. That is the hard part!"
Blaklioness: You are quite INCORRECT about what I assume or think. If you read my posts on this thread, it should be clear that I neither believe that Kola's notion of black authencity is limited to Africans nor do I think socalled African Americans' general notion of race is limited to socalled African Americans. The fact that you and Kola have the similar ideas about black authencity is neither unique or unfamiliar to me. The difference between you and Kola, as I see it, is that you conceptualize authenticity based on "BOTH genetics and values," while Kola's is based solely on features and color. In other words, Alan Keyes is an authentic black because of his color, but he is nevertheless an aberration. As she states in another thread, "AUTHENTIC Blacks can be "sell outs" just like anyone else." |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 812
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 06:04 pm: |
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Gambia is its own nation INDEPENDENT of Senegal.
But they were once the same country.
The MOTHER of the Black Americans...
Queen TinkaTeker II
ruled in Banjul, Gambia
--her 5 sons and 3 daughters were the VERY FIRST slaves of New York, Vermont and Barbados.
The 2 daughters were raped in Barbados--and their mulatto babies were then taken to South Carolina.
Most Black Americans are descended from Senegambia
,then Benin (Dahomey), then Mali, then Ghana, then Nigeria, then Ivory Coast, then all the rest.
But if you ask people of "GHANA"----they will say that you're all from Ghana.
Just like the Senegalese guy told you that 99% of the people in Senegal are "Muslim".
THEY ARE NOT.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 772
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 06:20 pm: |
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But, Yukio, You're insinuating that we're(too?) far removed from them and that's not true. That's what I was saying. Also, you make it seem like we have to reject our own history/culture in order to incorporate/learn from theirs; and that's not true either -- we can do all. And if they have models that will work better than what we have in our current culture, why not? What are we afraid of?
Tonya |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 931
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 06:48 pm: |
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Tonya: Take it from the horse's mouth your interpretation is incorrect.
I'm not saying that we are too far removed from Africans. I am saying that we share a history, but there are differences. And the differences that I identified above, in general at least, are responsible for the different way Africans and African Americans generally see black identity differently.
I never said anything about rejecting our history in order to learn from theirs. You might consider, if you have the time because I know this is quite a long thread, rereading my earlier posts. I made the point that Kola's conceptualization of an authentic black person basically called for the rejection of African Americans' self-perception and their history in this country. In addition, Kola was not talking about incorporating from Africans. She, as I understood her, was telling us that her notion of the authentic black is the only true standard, and that our standard of embracing light skinned and socalled biracial people was colorist and a buffer to subordinate dark skinned people, otherwise known as authentic blacks(interestingly, in the new thread, she now states that she is not authentic. She has wavered between being authentic and actually looking authentic because of her color).
Finally, I reiterate, the post you initially quoted states that there must be a mutual exchange amongs Africans, African Americans, and West Indians. Thus, you questions about us learning from African models is consistent with my previous post. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 773
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 07:48 pm: |
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...LOL.... Yukio, I'm not misinterpreting you -- You're not understanding me, or we're not understanding each other; but we always do that....(LOL!)
Tonya
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 932
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 07:52 pm: |
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Do I dare say that is a "fair" assessment? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 774
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 09:00 pm: |
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Well... I laughed throughout the whole thing, so it wasn't a "DARK" moment. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 933
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 09:26 pm: |
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I am glad we both can see the "light at the end of the tunnel." |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 775
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 09:47 pm: |
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If I saw it any other way I'd be telling a "white lie." |
Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 06:33 am: |
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Blacklioness,
When you visited Ghana and Ethiopia, how were you treated? And did they know you were Black American? |
Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 91
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 07:02 am: |
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Kola,
I believe you when you say Nigerians hate Black Americans. I was chatting with a sister from Sierra Leone and she was telling me that Africas who hate Black Americans do so because they are jealous of us and wanna be like us, especially Nigerians. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 934
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:34 am: |
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How "black" of you! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 935
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:43 am: |
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Blkamericanking and Tonya:
Here are issues that need to be understood, I think. (1) Although our culture is a syncretism of African cultures, it is also very euroAmerican.
(2) Even as we have been exploited, at the same time we have assess to certain things Africans do not, which is why they come here. Not because they love the US, but they want to get certain skills, use resources, and money to return.
(3)Many Africans, as Kola states, do know African American history. Similarly, most African Americans don't know African history. Finally, neither Africans or African Americans, in general that is, know their social, political, and cultural history. Now, I am speaking in generalities but I think it has some merit, most people know their lived experience and use such as a barometer and context to understand everything else...
With all of that said, I think we still share poverty. African poverty and NOT African American poverty, but poverty and poverty. WE all some share ancestry AND we definitely share domination by white people and their culture.
These are the issues, conflicts, and differences that we need to engage, coalition, build networks, etc...
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 936
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:46 am: |
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(2) I meant access not assess
(3) meant to say "do not know...
Im sure there are more typos...but i have yet to have coffee and I need to be out...so peace! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 776
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:57 am: |
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Yukio: How "black" of you!
Tonya: No problem -- we all "brown"! |
Afroamerican
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 92
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 02:51 pm: |
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That's interesting blackamericanking,
The dozen or so Africans I ran across in my life time where never "rude" or "mean" to me really----- its just aways stuck with me how offended they seemed to get when I described they as "African". |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 752
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 03:10 pm: |
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TONYA:
"You have the wrong image of me."
MOONSIGNS:
Imagine that?!
So, Tonya, you have no issue with IR couples. I accept that. However, that makes your assertion that I'm a "racist bitch" even more fascinating and complicated, though. Every "opinion" you have of me is rooted in some negative, prejudicial stereotype. Most prejudice thoughts and concepts are birthed out of ingorance and when compared to reality, they have no merit. And usually people who have deep-rooted prejudice are those who have either a superiority or inferiority complex. Rather interesting. Nevertheless, do your thing. We all, at one time or another, have baseless opinions that make only our person appear to be foolish.
And the babble about having white and biracial friends and family--it's generic. You seem as ignorant as white people who say they have "black friends" so they can feel justified yet maintain their prejudice views. You definitely have a complex. But--hey--that's my opinion. I know you understand. *wink*
P.S. Call me sweetie again. It makes me think you like me.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 778
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 04:30 pm: |
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You're an angry poster, Moonie. Why? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 756
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 05:23 pm: |
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I've gone from a "racist bitch" to an "angry poster". Classic!
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 781
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 06:45 pm: |
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...LOL! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 937
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 08:23 pm: |
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You're I'm not black or red or white, I'm brown from the boogie down! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 785
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:16 pm: |
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... Uh-huh! And you're "GREEN" with envy! Nan, nan, na, nan, nan! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 939
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 02:15 am: |
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I'm actually "blue" with melancholy... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 786
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 09:58 am: |
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...Awww, poor baby.... Sorry for teasing....... How can we "brighten" your day? |
Enchanted
Newbie Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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This is a ridiculous thread. Andyone who has one black parent is black. The people in Africa are not one color either. They have all different colors and hair textures. Kola Boof is a big racist colorstruck person and she wants everyone to hate fairskinned people because she does. I'm not one to argue just calling it like I see it. This is very offensive. The entire thread.
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Blaklioness
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 04:28 pm: |
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Here we go. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 788
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 04:56 pm: |
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...LOL, Blacklioness.... Apperently that virgin bastard needs to be broken in! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2941
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 06:01 pm: |
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Bring it on, Tonya. I got your back, enchanted! |
Blkamericanking
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 93
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 03:27 am: |
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Enchanted,
Anyone who has one black parent is NOT black, even if that particular individual looks more black than white. He or she is simply mixed. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 151
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 04:00 am: |
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Enchanted --
"Anyone who has one black parent is black."
Make - me - laugh.
-\-
/...\ |
Serenasailor
Regular Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 29
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 06:14 pm: |
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The media should portray black women the way they do all other women. Not as Mammies/Jemimas,Saphires, and Jezebels. |
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