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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:28 pm: | 
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Long Beach Hate Crimes Trial Conflicts Civil Rights Leaders
By Earl Ofari Hutchinson
Printed on December 24, 2006
A well-known local civil rights activist drew applause and praise when he announced that he planned to lead a walk against hate two days before Christmas in support of victims of racially motivated violence in Long Beach, California.
In years past, that would have scarcely raised an eyebrow and drawn only the barest of media coverage since civil rights groups have held countless marches and demonstrations in past years against white on black hate violence. Local and national civil rights leaders almost certainly would have eagerly endorsed the walk.
But this time, none publicly endorsed it.
The walk was not in protest of black hate violence. The victims are not blacks. They are three white women. They were brutally beaten on Halloween night in Long Beach. Ten black teens are charged with the attack. During the attacks the blacks allegedly hurled racial insults, and taunts that included shouts of "I Hate Whites." That prompted prosecutors to slap eight of the teens with a hate crimes charge. The hate charge raised two thorny questions: Can, and do, blacks commit hate crimes? And if they commit them, what should civil right groups say and do?
The second question is even more perplexing and conflicting. That was plainly evident during a contentious meeting Long Beach officials called in mid-December to ease racial tensions stemming from the attacks. Blacks were deeply divided over the issue. Najee Ali, director of Project Islamic Hope, who organized the anti-hate walk, challenged civil rights leaders to break the code of silence on hate violence when blacks are the accused attackers, and whites are the victims.
The editor of Long Beach's black newspaper hotly disputed that there was any racial motive in the attacks, blamed the white women for provoking the violence, and accused prosecutors of overkill in piling on the hate charge.
In the last century no issue has ignited more fear and outrage, sparked marches, demonstrations, and even riots, and prompted demands for tougher laws, prosecutions, and prison sentences among civil rights groups, than the issue of racially motivated hate violence.
Race violence is so emotionally tormenting that civil rights leaders still demand that federal and state prosecutors reopen, investigate and vigorously prosecute the slew of still unsolved racial murders in the South from four decades ago. They have heaped much praise on the handful of Southern prosecutors that have gotten convictions in the old cases.
But in the Long Beach case, local and national civil rights leaders have either ignored it, or issued cautious and guarded statements about the victims. To take a stand against hate violence, and express empathy for the white victims does not presume guilt, jeopardize the rights of defendants, or muddle the fight against white on black racial violence.
That's the sensible and credible response civil rights leaders should take in the fight against race violence. It would silence those conservatives that lambaste blacks for rushing to the barricades when the victims are black, but maintain mute silence when the victims are whites.
The troubling reality is that there's still a lot of racial violence in America, and the perpetrators of that violence come in all colors. According to the FBI's annual hate crimes report there are about 10,000 reported hate crimes yearly in America. That figure has remained fairly constant for the past decade. The majority of the assailants are white males.
But there's also an increasing number of hate attacks committed by Latino gangs in Southern California. The victims in almost all cases are blacks. Blacks, for their part, commit about one in five hate attacks and their victims are almost exclusively whites. The attacks whether by whites, blacks, or Latinos are similar in pattern. The victims are usually alone, and have no known gang or known criminal involvement. The attacks include murder, beatings, harassment, taunts and insults.
In the past, the legal line has been relatively clear on what constitutes a racial hate crime. The crime is committed by a group or individuals that had a violent history of attacks against blacks or whites, and the victims were targeted solely because of their race. That does not appear to be the case with the Long Beach attacks. It's another reason why civil rights groups have been cautious or silent on the case.
The trial is expected to stretch out for a few more weeks. During the defense phase, the teens will give their version of what happened that fateful night. That could shed light on just what and why the attacks happened. That could stir even greater soul searching on why racial hate violence continues to forge the deep rift between blacks and whites. And now between blacks and other blacks.
Earl Ofari Hutchinson is a political analyst and social issues commentator, and the author of the forthcoming book The Emerging Black GOP Majority (Middle Passage Press, September 2006), a hard-hitting look at Bush and The GOP's court of black voters.
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Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
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All I want to know is who are the parents of these teens( they should be punished too !) ? This article should spark more public attention, because so far the trial has been mostly attended by Long Beach Sheriffs and media. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7134
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:38 pm: |
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If the women were attacked because they're White, the alleged perpetrators should be charged with hate crimes. And it does Black foks NODAYAMGOOD to argue otherwise.
Dee End. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 290
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:46 pm: |
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Abm, I agree...however that is the duty of the defense lawyers( to basically get a sentence of public service and probation)Apparently all of the teens except one(public defender) have reputable defense lawyers. Unfortunately, I think they're going to get off without the charges of a hate crime. The one witness involved in this trial has been intimidated and harrassed by local gang members too. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 291
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:49 pm: |
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actually, the duty of defense lawyers is to get the more serious charges dropped and the teens get issued a light sentence(which would most likely be public service/and or probation. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7136
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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Jackie,
If we all the trivialization of hate crimes when Blacks commit them inevitiably hate crimes against Blacks - even very serious ones - will be trivialized. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1334
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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If the women were attacked because they're White, the alleged perpetrators should be charged with hate crimes. And it does Black foks NODAYAMGOOD to argue otherwise.
Thank you Mr. ABM!!!! My exact sentiments. Let's flip this scenario: Three young black women are beaten down badly by a gang of no less than ten rowdy out of control white guys outside of a club. The victims and witnesses confirm the words "I hate fuckin' niggers" and "porch monkeys" and the similar racists epithets, were hurled at the three black women by the attacking white males. Now, what would Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, NAACP, Maxine Waters and Louis Farakhan say? Would black people, as a group, just turn and look the other way? Would the black people in Long Beach respond exactly as they did to the assault of the three white females? Just curious......
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7137
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
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Ntfs,
To me, this is pretty cut/dry. If it can be proven the girls were battered because they are White, the perpetrators should be treated as harshly by the law as if the races were reversed. To argue otherwise is to NOT be serious about protecting BLACK foks from future race crime. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 292
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:04 pm: |
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Abm:Jackie,
"If we all the trivialization of hate crimes when Blacks commit them inevitiably hate crimes against Blacks - even very serious ones - will be trivialized."
I totally agree... However, I'm just opining the probability of the trial outcome. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7138
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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Jackie,
Yeah. I can see that happening too. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 957
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SILLY PLANTATION NEGROES!! STOP RUNNING TO THE DEFENSE OF WHITE PPL!!LIKE THEY NEED YOUR DAMN HELP ANYWAY!! THESE BITCHES ARE GOING TO FRY!! WHETHER YOU THINK THEY ARE INNOCENT OR NOT!!
The truth is that most hate crimes are committed against Black ppl still. About 67% of them are committed against Black ppl. Black ppl are recepients of more hate crimes than Gay ppl. I will stand behind these women. Why? Because they are BLACK!!! Notice how we are the only race of ppl who has to sit there and ponder whether we should stand up for our own. Unlike other ethnic groups who stand up for there own and ask questions later.
Let me tell you somthing Knee-grows. When it is your turn in the till, white ppl won't care that you sold-out one of your own in there defense. They view us all the same way.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7140
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:47 pm: |
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Serena,
If you allow Black foks to get away with committing hate crimes you open the floodgates up to many more Black foks being the VICTIMS of hate crimes. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 293
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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Yada Yada Yada Serenasailor.
Ditto Abm |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 960
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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How is that so ABM when we have always been the main targets of hate-crimes and we will always be? The floodgates aren't open any more than they always have been. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7142
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
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Serena,
Everythings relative. But I think your grandparents and great-grand parents might argue the racist floodgates have are NOT as wide open now as they were during their time.
Yes. We've always been the main targets of hate-crimes. But just because we've been the main target does not mean our situation hasn't improved and cannot worsen. And if hate crimes legislation truly does help lessen the likelihood of Blacks being targeted we should help to buttress such laws, even if/when some fool Black foks break those laws. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 222
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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How is this a hate crime? Because the alleged victims are white and the alleged perpertrators are black? |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 286
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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If they called these women "white bitch" while beating them then it's a hate crime Robynmarie. From what I understand the women would not have been beaten by the crowd had they been black girls. It's racially motivated hate.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6202
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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Come on, Serenasailor. It's unwise to imply that when white folks commit hate crimes that sanitizes the situation and makes it excusable for black folks to stoop to their level. What this civil rights leader is doing is a noble gesture. He is seizing an opportunity to take the high ground and to show that blacks have a capacity for the humanity it takes to recognize that wrong is wrong no matter who does it. If responsible leaders don't start emphasizing this, the human race is doomed. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7145
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:24 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
I don't think we know for certain whether or not this is hate crime. But the alleged perpetrators have been accused of saying "I Hate Whites". If that is true, then it would seem that race was at least partly the motive of the attack. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 223
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:27 pm: |
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I wonder what these women said to the men before the alleged incident? If they had called them names first, would it still be a hate crime? I doubt the women are as innocent as the press is playing it, especially considering the area of Long Beach this alleged crime took place.
My concern is that passions will be so enraged against these teenagers because white girls are involved and they won't get a fair trial.
This is Long Beach after all, otherwise known as "Iowa by the Sea." |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7147
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:35 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Now you're mostly speculating. But I imagine if it were proven the women had instigated their attack those should be mitigating factors in whether and how the defendents were convicted and/or how they were sentenced.
Still. It's one thing to call someone bad name. It's quite another to bash their head in while you're doing it.
And I would agree that teenagers - Black AND White - should be given more breaks and 2nd chances from the law than adults. |
Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 794
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
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Dayum, says Supernig |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3705
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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How bout we acknowledge OUR OWN institutional colorism, shed a tear for those blacks we continue to exclude, how bout we give a fuck about that??
Raise Cain for these bitches before raising it for myself, I wish I would.
If a black can hate another black and it isn't considered a crime... I'll be goddamned if it's one when we're hating these bitches.… I wish I would…
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Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 224
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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Obviously, I wasn't there and don't know how it went down. But when I first heard about it, I figured it was some kind of gang beef. I doubt seriously any hate crime was involved. The impression that the press has left is that innocent white women were attacked for no reason by murderous black men. Where have we heard that before?
I agree with Mr. Love the newspaper editor on this one. It wouldn't be the first time a D.A. has overcharged. Ask the young men from Duke.
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Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 225
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:58 pm: |
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Thanks Tonya. I agree 100%.
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Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 294
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:18 pm: |
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Hey Robyn,
The incident involved 9 teenage females (all under the age of 18 except one I think)and one male. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 291
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:27 pm: |
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Jackie can you explain why you think the black girls who jumped these white girls did it and tell us what you know and why your on the white girls side?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7151
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:32 pm: |
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Robinmarie,
So because it's a gang-related incident (which has in NO way been prove true at this point), that should eliminate the possibility of charging offenders with hate crimes?
Or, lemme go one step further, should we eliminate ALL hate crime laws altogether? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7152
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:36 pm: |
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Tonya,
So then if the races were reversed, if you had Black girls getting beaten by White girls who yelled "I hate Whites!" we should wholly preempt any notion of this being considered a race crime? |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 295
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:36 pm: |
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LOL Enchanted ! I'm on the side of justice... plain and simple. I work directly with teenagers, gang members etc... and in being in their company, I've listened to how some of them talk and feel about White people on many occasions. And it ain't pretty. So was I surprised about the incident a resounding NO. And unless you live in Long Beach too, like I do, then I don't feel the need to discuss anything further. But thanks for asking mama. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 292
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:39 pm: |
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Abm it sounds like a girl fight to me probably over a guy if a bunch of black girls jumped several white girls but tell us would you be upset if a group of black boys jumped and beat up a group of white boys? Please dont discount the racial advantage white girls have over black in this society and have similar issues with white girl racism as black boys do with white men. This is sounding more and more suspicious to me. Black girls kicked white girls ass and that's not allowed white girls must be protected at all costs.
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Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 296
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:40 pm: |
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And that would be black and latino teenagers (male and female)...gang affiliated and non-gang affiliated...that's why I asked from the jump whom are their parents or guardians. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 297
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
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The white females were not teenagers, the youngest one was 19 and I think the other two were 20 and 21. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 298
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:55 pm: |
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correction-two were age 19 and one 21. |
Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 796
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 06:08 pm: |
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The white girls were probably asking for it! Most of them are! Swinging their stringy hair and acting like they are better than us. Hell, I'd give them a beatdown myself if I were still a teenager. |
Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 798
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 06:25 pm: |
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Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 226
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 07:36 pm: |
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Jackie-
So it was black girls against white girls, only one young man involved? I do really find it hard to believe it was a "hate" crime. Sounds like a catfight to me.
Abm-
I am not familiar with all the elements of a hate crime. If a hate crime constitutes yelling a racial slur, then as someone much wiser then I said, "most blacks who kill other blacks probably yelled you black such and such" before they pulled the trigger which would also constitute a hate crime.
And yes, if it was gang-related, I am sorry to say if you throw down in a gang you get what you get. No extra justice. Hate crimes legislation as I understand it, was devised to protect blacks and other minorities from racially motivated crimes. Not when two groups of girls of different races decide to go at it.
I really think the DA overcharged in order to poison the potential jury pool which most likely will be white and retired. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 299
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 07:43 pm: |
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Robyn:"I really think the DA overcharged in order to poison the potential jury pool which most likely will be white and retired."
There's no jury involved in this case..because the "alleged suspects" are all minors.
The three victims are 19 and 21. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 07:50 pm: |
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Minors can have trials if they are tried as adults, which an overzealous prosecutor will probably do. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3708
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 08:08 pm: |
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"...as someone much wiser then I said, "most blacks who kill other blacks probably yelled you black such and such" before they pulled the trigger which would also constitute a hate crime."
EXACTLY Robynmarie: That's exactly what "black-on-black crimes" are about and precisely how many of them go down. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 300
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 08:20 pm: |
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Indeed, but this Long Beach judge is trying them as minors and as a result there is no jury. The judge is an older Caucasian man by the way. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 228
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 08:25 pm: |
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Okay, so I don't get the point. Are these girls being charged with hate crimes or not? Is it because someone called someone a "white bit--" while they were scraping? Or, is it up for this judge to decide? |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 301
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 08:52 pm: |
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Dr. Earl wrote: "Ten black teens are charged with the attack. During the attacks the blacks allegedly hurled racial insults, and taunts that included shouts of "I Hate Whites." That prompted prosecutors to slap eight of the teens with a hate crimes charge. The hate charge raised two thorny questions: Can, and do, blacks commit hate crimes? And if they commit them, what should civil right groups say and do?"
So it was more than just "White Bitch". In any event, in my humble opinion, I think the teens are going to get off only with probation, public service...and probably required to take some anger management and race-related workshops. That's my prediction.
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Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 229
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 09:08 pm: |
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"I Hate Whites"?? Who yells that during a fist fight? LOL. And what did the alleged victims say?
This just does not pass the smell test for me. It sounds too much like the white girls were completely innocent and I find that hard to believe.
Anyway, I hope the punishment fits the crime, if a crime was indeed committed. Maybe black people can commit hate crimes, but this particular incident is suspect. I hope all the facts come out and it's not a whitewash, so to speak. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1339
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 25, 2006 - 05:57 am: |
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”SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SILLY PLANTATION NEGROES!! STOP RUNNING TO THE DEFENSE OF WHITE PPL!!LIKE THEY NEED YOUR DAMN HELP ANYWAY!! THESE BITCHES ARE GOING TO FRY!! WHETHER YOU THINK THEY ARE INNOCENT OR NOT!!”
When I first read your post, my first instinct was to respond with a blistering counter response to your hysterical racist and double standard outburst. But I have decided to try something different instead. Brother Serena, you seem to be overlooking something here. Your melodramatic racist outburst and indignation, at the idea that some black people would not approve of ten black men physically attacking and beating down three white women, is disturbing. First of all, I personally have problems with men who “physically assault” women. Race of the offenders and victims is totally irrelevant. I do not approve of men physically attacking and beating women –especially women they have no relationship with.
Your self righteous indignation at the idea of black people condemning the attacks on these white women is based on violent hate crimes committed against black people –both current and past. But what you have sadly failed to realize, is the non-negotiable fact that bad behavior does not excuse nor justify other bad behavior. Violent crime is violent crime, regardless of the race of perpetrators and the victims.
You seem to believe some form of divine retribution or justified revenge has been meted out to these three white women for acts of violence that has been historically committed against black people. It appears that you believe it is a “good thing”, for ten black men to physically beat down three white women, who they did not know. But I sadly must inform you Serena, your logic is unfortunately flawed and lacks a moral ground.
As bro ABM has suggested, you sabotage your moral position when you passionately condemn (and rightfully so) hate crimes and senseless acts of violence committed against black people, by self righteously turning your head and refusing to acknowledge “identical” violent or similar criminal behavior, committed by blacks against non-blacks.
Also, another thing you have failed to understand, is we don’t need you to remind us of the history of violence committed by whites against black people. WE ALREADY KNOW AND WE ARE COMPLETLEY AWARE OF IT. And by doing so, you have spuriously attempted to erect a very weak and flawed argument as to why black people should morally support and defend black men who physically assault white women. Read this: IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Contrary to your fantasy, there are no Knee-Grows, Uncle Toms or race traitors on this board (as you have suggested) simply because they do not share your warped sense of morality and racist indignation. Once again, read this: The majority of readers do not approve nor condone ten men attacking and beating three women, regardless of the circumstances or the races of the perpetrators or victims! You need to understand this.
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Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 302
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 25, 2006 - 06:04 am: |
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Good post NTFS... however the attackers were 9 teenaged black females and one black male. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 25, 2006 - 06:12 am: |
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Thank you for the clarification Ms Jackie. I shall research this unfortunate incidence for more accurate details. But what I said still stands.
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Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 230
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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Serena, I agree with your sentiments.
More disturbing than the alleged incident is:
a) the notion we can believe the version of events put out by the press
b) the notion we can believe the version of events put out by the police
c) when white folks say jump, we say "how high?"
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7158
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 02:51 pm: |
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Robynmarie: "Hate crimes legislation as I understand it, was devised to protect blacks and other minorities from racially motivated crimes."
So then your basic position is Whites canNOT be victims of hate crimes, and if they claim otherwise, they are lying and their claims should discarded REGARDLESS of what actually happen? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 05:32 pm: |
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"So then your basic position is Whites canNOT be victims of hate crimes, and if they claim otherwise, they are lying and their claims should discarded REGARDLESS of what actually happen?"
Bro ABM, your wisdom and insight is to be commended on this subject. But for some, racist demagoguery and double-standard grandstanding takes precedence over morality and standardized codes of civilized behavior.
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Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 222
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
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Well, the thing is our GOVERNMENT says that WASPs CANNOT be victims of a hate crime. If you read the legislature of hate crimes, you'll find that it is written to apply only to discriminated minority groups, Jews, Blacks, Asians, Latinos, Gays, etc, but not "regular" White folx.
According to our government, if a Black attacks a White and yells honkey or cracker during the attack, it's assault. If a White attacks a Black and yells nigger or coon during the attack, it's a hate crime; because the Black is a disadvantaged minority, whereas the White is not.
This is not to say that I condone this attack. I DO NOT. If you attack someone, ANYONE, without cause, justification or in self-defense - you're a criminal and your ass deserves to be thrown UNDER the jail. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 233
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:20 am: |
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So there it is.
The way US described a so-called "hate" crime, by the very definition, whites cannot be victims. While some are concerned about whites being a victims of hate crimes (an impossibility, apparently) I am most concerned about black people being railroaded (a real possibiity) being accused of injuring white folks. The deck that is the legal system is already stacked against these young people. Why aren't we worried about that?
Perhaps some people believe by adding a hate crime charge they can side with the majority thus proving they are not like the heathens who commited this alleged crime.
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Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 851
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:27 am: |
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Its been going on since the begininng of time. Black gals giving white gals the beatdown. its just a fact of life. I've heard of white people spontaneously orgasming while being beaten by blacks. These black gals shouldn't see the inside of a courtroom, they should be praised because they are heroes |
Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 852
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:29 am: |
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That's what's up in da LBC
Remember that's Snoop's hood |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 303
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 03:03 am: |
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LOL ! This discussion is beginning to be like a junior high school mock trial or something, for instance, " Jackie, why are you on the side of the white girls ?" Anyhow, by the US's AGE standards these black teeangers all ten of them BEAT three white WOMEN. This wasn't some basketball court fight. One woman was kicked in the face to the point where she has to have facial reconstructive surgery and is loosing vision in one eye. Granted, these teenagers while they were beating the pulp(one had a skate board) out of three white women, little did the teens know they were committing a FElONY. Obviously, these teenagers have a lot of behavioral issues and need some serious consequences too. I betcha these teenagers will think twice before committing another senseless act of violence. LOL ! You tell me what white women would yell something at close to 17 black youths on Halloween ? At night ? Like I said, my prediction is they'll all get probation, anger management, and community service. They've been in a juevenille facility since October. |
Igbogirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Igbogirl
Post Number: 853
Registered: 09-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 03:06 am: |
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Dang! That is messed up. They deserve more than just some probation and community service. This is pretty serious |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1360
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 06:11 am: |
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Nice post Jackie. Doesnt' matter whether they are teens or adults. Three innocent women were severely beaten by these thugs. I don't condone this kind of criminal activity. I personally witnessed something very similar to this case in 1985. I'll never forget it and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. I don't condone this type of unwarranted senseless thuggish violence. Skin color is irrelevant -violence is violence. You're post was on the money Jackie.
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Lola_ogunnaike
Newbie Poster
Username: Lola_ogunnaike
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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This is something I think I'm going to write about. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3716
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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So let's see...
The white women wouldn't yell yada yada yada...
...cuz white women can't be loud? crazy? crackheads? drunk? drunk whores or thugs bitches? Or loud crazy crackheaded drunk whores that are thug bitches.
Meanwhile, the black girls are forty downin hooligans that deserve to be thrown *UNDER the FUCKING jail* ...because we already decided that they're loud and unruly while KNOWING what the white women would NOT do. We KNOW white women wouldn't yell some stupid shit cuz they're not crazy cuz they're white.
...Got it. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 307
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 01:36 pm: |
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Actually, even I wouldn't yell at or provoke a group of youths, no matter what their race. And thank God as a teen I had enough sense not to react so violently in an adverse situation or to join in just for the hell of it LOL! Rest assured, we can all put our minds at ease, cause I seriously doubt that these teens were aware that they were committing a felony let alone be charged with a "hate crime." The hate crime charge is not going to stick in my opinion.
So, since the violence is being overlooked in this matter, what should happen to these 10 youths ?
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2532
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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I doubt if yelling "I hate white ppl" makes it a hate crime. And all their lawyers have to do is proclaim mob mentality and there won't be much punishment at all. People aren't held as accountable when they commit crimes as part of a group.  |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 310
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:04 pm: |
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What exactly was yelled by these youths will probably always be a mystery. Cause Yeah, she probably heard all kinds of shyt as she was getting her head bashed end with some NIKE tennis shoes and a skate board. It's just one eye though that she'll lose sight in. Hell, one eye is better than none! |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 311
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:13 pm: |
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My prediction is that one or two of them will be charged with assault & battery and they'll do some time with the California Youth Authority. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 312
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
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oh yeah and that's "head bashed in" forgive the typos. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 235
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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Jackie-
Why do you believe all these so called "facts" when there has been no trial to prove anything? What you've listed are allegations.
People are still presumed innocent, right? |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 236
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 04:08 pm: |
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The following is being charged as a "hate" crime too:
2 reputed Latino gang members are charged in fatal shooting of black girl
By Sam Quinones, Times Staff Writer
December 27, 2006
Two reputed members of a Latino street gang known for attacks on blacks were charged Tuesday with capital murder and a hate crime in the killing of a 14-year-old African American girl.
Ernesto Alcarez, 20, and Jonathan Fajardo, 18, both of Los Angeles were arraigned at Los Angeles County Superior Court in Long Beach on counts of murder and attempted first-degree murder in the Dec. 15 fatal shooting of Cheryl Greene.
Both are charged with the special circumstances of murder to further a gang and murder based on race, which make them subject to the death penalty, said Deputy Dist. Atty. Ron Goudy.
The case will be turned over to the district attorney's Hate Crimes Unit, which will decide whether to seek the death penalty, he said.
The crime occurred in the 20600 block of South Harvard Boulevard in Los Angeles after two Latino men approached a group of black people. Alcarez allegedly pulled a gun and fired several shots, killing Greene, Goudy said.
Two women and a man received minor wounds in the afternoon attack, and three other people escaped injury.
Alcarez and Fajardo are alleged to be members of the 204th Street gang in the Harbor Gateway area. The Latino gang has a history dating back to the mid-1990s of hate crimes against blacks, ranging from racist graffiti to murder, Los Angeles police say.
In 2002, alleged gang member Marco Milla was convicted of murder and five counts of attempted murder after firing into a group of black people, killing one man at a liquor store near 204th Street and Harvard Boulevard.
The gang claims the liquor store as its territory and blacks have long considered it off-limits, say police and community members.
Greene's death sparked a rally Saturday of more than 100 people, many of them African Americans, who walked down 204th Street to the liquor store.
"It was an act of defiance," said Najee Ali, a participant and community activist. "Anyone from the community should have the right to walk and shop wherever they please."
Ali said the gang's numbers had declined recently, but that blacks in the area feared the gang would regroup.
"This is a very vicious and cruel gang who has shown a tremendous hatred toward blacks in that community," he said.
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Lola_ogunnaike
Regular Poster
Username: Lola_ogunnaike
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 04:21 pm: |
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For sure, I would love to see both of them banned from this board. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7172
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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If prosecutors are disallowed from charging Blacks and other minorities with hate crimes, smart defense attorneys will use such (e.g., via judicial precedent) to undermind cases against Whites who've committed hate crimes. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 313
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 05:47 pm: |
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For posters in the Southern California area the trial is currently in progress and you can attend every day @ 1:30pm at Long Beach Juevenille Court unless the Judge announces otherwise.
And yes, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty. On a side note: I watched an interview with the 3 women, bruises and lacerations included and let me tell ya that one eye ain't looking too good. |
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