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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7017
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 02:13 pm: | 
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If it is true that we all would prefer our men be darker and our women be lighter, are the Blackest of Black men the handsomest of all the world's men? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1268
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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"If it is true that we all would prefer our men be darker and our women be lighter, are..."
Hmmmmmm.....hard to say. I could care less about their skin color but I'm not compromising on the curves, hips, thick booties and large shapely legs. I can give waivers on the face and skin color but not the body. I know it's just as bad as picking someone for their skin color since it's all physical attributes, but I can't help myself. Just like the sister who told me she is only attracted to dark complexioned men and the brother in the article who said he was attracted to light complexioned women. Do people have a right to their personal preferences without being run down and criticized by skin color crazed self righteous yelping hyena's?
"......are the Blackest of Black men the handsomest of all the world's men?"
Uhhhhh...that part is probably true. Ha! Ha! Ha!
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Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1618
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 02:34 pm: |
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Abm:
"....are the Blackest of Black men the handsomest of all the world's men?"
Moonsigns:
No, because there are people who are attractive and people who aren't (in every group of people).
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3653
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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Abm,
I was trying to find the thread where you first said that because it just blew my mind. I had to turn off the computer and think about it awhile. And then I came back to the computer to read it again (infact that's why I'm on it now) but I couldn't find it! Anyway, I read the study you mentioned. What you're saying makes so much sense. I'm surprised the researchers didn't consider it. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7029
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 03:47 pm: |
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Are you referring to what I said below in the "I like Light Skinned Women.....?" thread?
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:18 am:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a book I've been intending to read (sorry the name of it currently escapes me) that argues that all human beings inately view lighter skin to be more feminine and view darker skin to be more masculine. Thus the advent of phrases "Tall, DARK and handsome" is a choice complement of men while "FAIR and beautiful" is such for women.
If this is true, your bluest-Black men should be considered the world most handsome men. I wonder would most women argue such is true. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 278
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:07 pm: |
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ABM I gave you a virtual high five for that one in the other thread !! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7031
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:12 pm: |
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Jackie,
Thanks. I would have returned the gesture at that time but I was busy using my hand for something else.
*snicker* |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6133
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:15 pm: |
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I agree with Moonsigns. A good looking man is a good looking man, no matter what his skin color is. His physique, his eyes, the symmetry of his facial features, his strong jaw, and his demeanor are what all combine to make him foine. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 279
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:16 pm: |
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Just make sure you wash your hands before you touch the computer keys again !! LOOOOOOL !! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7033
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:33 pm: |
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Jackie,
Naw. I like for my keystrokes to be really sticky-icky. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 936
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:35 pm: |
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No ABM it is just that Black men aren't subjected to the same colorist, caste system that Black women are subjected to. Everybody in the world praises, honors, and worships the European beauty aesthetic. And it is forced upon the women of every race.
Men being the rulers of any society set the standard. So naturally they are the ones making the rules. In Africa before European colonization Black women were praised for having dark-complexions because it was seen as healthy. Anybody with light skin was deemed sick and diseased because Leprosy, and Cancer usually caused the lack of pigmentation.
I know you heard of what they do in India. Indian men who are refusing to marry women who are a shade darker than a paper bag. And heavy dowry's being placed of lighter skinned women. Indian women bleaching there skin and getting dangerous radiation treatments to lighten their skin.
Since the men are the rulers of every society they are not subjected to such a stupid, superficial, and unrealistic caste system. So a man can be whatever color and still be deemed beautiful. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7034
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
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Serenasailor,
Black have been as loathe by Whites and other non-Blacks as Black women have been. Often, more hated even. Thus, you'd think our appearence and visage would be every bit as rejected as that of Black women.
And you haven't explained WHY a color-caste system would be imposed on women. What would be the SOURCE of deeming lighterskinned women to be more beautiful or pleasing than darkerskinned women? Perhaps you'll argue it's an instrument of power that's fueled by prejudice. But then I'll say you couldn't perpetutate that power if that innate bias didn't exist. And I'd also ask why women (ALLEGEDLY) do not hold similar bias against darker men?
Does White look more delicate, vulnerable, soft - WOMANLY?
And does Black appear more strong, sturdy, defiant - MANLY? |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 939
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:25 pm: |
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See ABM that is where you are wrong. Yes, Blacks as a group are the most hated and loathed ppl. However, because we live in a racist, sexist society that not only hates and devalues Blacks, but also women. Black women are moreso hated and loathed than Black men. And men are not measured only through there beauty.
Most ppl respond better to similiarities. Most white ppl find other white ppl normal and attractive looking. Most Asians do the same. Black should also do the same. There is no reason why a dark-skinned African featured man would find the White or Asian faces more attractive unless he lives in a society where A) either they are the dominate culture or B) there physical features are seen as the norm.
See this is the lie that has been perpetuated in our society for centuries. Black men do not have it worse than Black women. The reason why the color caste system is imposed on women and not the men is because in every society(Black community is not exception) men are on a higher social level than women.
Women in many societies worth is only seen through there beauty. And beauty is whatever that society conforms to. Like for instance western society only places beauty in a Euro-centric system. These biases are not innate.
So the source on deeming light-skinned women more attractive than dark-skinned women is to uphold the standards of White Supremacy, in a world that deems "whiteness" as normal, superior, and the standard for humanity.
And again women don't hold such biases against men because women hold the same sexist beliefs that men do. In order for a society to be sexist both the men and women have to be sexist. That is the same for White Supremacy. In order for a society to uphold white supremacy both whites and non-whites have to hold and maintain white supremacist beliefs. Women simply do not hold men to the same color-caste system that men do to women. Because there is more value placed on men. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1280
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:26 pm: |
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"Serenasailor,
Black have been as loathe by Whites and other non-Blacks as Black women have been. Often, more hated even. Thus, you'd.........
And you haven't explained WHY a color-caste system would be imposed on women. What would be the SOURCE of deeming lighterskinned women to be more beautiful or pleasing than darkerskinned women? Perhaps............do not hold similar bias against darker men?"
Thank you again ABM. I can't wait to see his answer.....
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2386
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:39 pm: |
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Alright everybody - pay attention. The reason that the preferred choice of the dark complexion man to be with a lightskinned woman, and the lightskinned woman chooses the dark man is because of
DRUM ROLL PLEASE
the CONTRAST. Helloooow!!! It's just that simple. I'm in the furniture business and the same philosophy applies. You are supposed to have furniture that is contrasting to your skin tone, so if you're light you get dark furniture and vice versa. Get it??? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7043
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
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Serenasailor,
Man, please. Men ARE measured by their beauty. On THAT you can trust/believe.
Hell. There are even studies out that assert goodlooking and tall men earn decidedly more than more homely and shorter men. And, interestingly, those same studies suggest that pretty women do NOT enjoy that same advantage.
And what guy gets laid quicker and easier than anybody...the goodlooking one. He don't have to have no game, no cash and, in many case, no gotdayam sense yet he'll probably accidently bone more chicks than most other guys will.
All other things being equal, a goodlooking man will most DEFINITELY enjoy advantages and gratuities that other men will not.
So, no offence, because I don't buy your argument that men are not judged on their looks, I can't really argue and debate the relevance of historical factors and precedents you present.
And, lastly, you're being descriptive when I ask you to be explanatory. You say women don't hold women to the same color biases that men hold women to. I'd say perhaps they do...but their biases are opposite those men. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6138
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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So should light-skinned men be coupled up with dark-skinned women, Mzuri? And after being informed of this, will they cooperate? Just a simple question I'm asking after giving up on trying to negotiate that nebuous maze of incoherent verbosity the men on this board are engaging in. ROTFLOL. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2387
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:08 pm: |
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Obviously this isn't everyone's preference, I just feel and I have heard others express that the reason light/dark mate up is because it's just more interesting that way. I've seen dark women with light men as well, but I was responding to the OP. I don't believe it has anything to do with inferiority/superiority or people feeling that someone isn't "good enough" because of their skin tone - it's just that opposites attract. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 940
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:11 pm: |
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Again, you are wrong men have never been held to the same standards that are imposed on women. And they never will be. If that is the case how come men in there 50's who are balding, or with salt and pepper hair can still be considered attractive, but a woman in her 50's can only be considered attractive if she is able to maintain a look as if she was in her 20's.
MEN HAVE NEVER BEEN HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS WOMEN!!!Yes a goodlooking man can get laid faster than a man who considered not so attractive. However, men are not held to the same color caste system as women so what is considered goodlooking for a man is different than it is for a woman.
Mens value as a human being is not measured by there looks the way it is for a woman. And lets be real most women want security. I don't care how goodlooking a man is if he works at McDonalds and is riding the bus alot of women would not even look at him. Whereas a woman can ride the bus, work at McDonalds and if she is cute even the richest man will try to Holla.
My point is that the standards are different for women than they are for men.
So in essence what is considered goodlooking for a man is different than it is for a woman because men and women are held to different standards.
Also, I don't buy your argument. Because if light skin, light eyes, and light color hair, was considered more feminine than that would place White men at the very bottom of the color caste system. And White men would be considered the least attractive. When we all know that White men are considered the most attractive of all men. Maybe, because it's white men are the ones "WHO SET THE STANDARD". |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 941
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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Another thing is that Black men in our Euro-centic society have never been considered more attractive than White men. Yes Black men may be considered attractive but never moreso than white men. It is simply not the case.
And this is because white men set the standard. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 465
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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ABM, i was ahving this very same discussion on another messageboard under the name of gabby....i think that what was said ties very well into this topic and sums it all up VERY nicely. so i wont have to repeat myself on here. I'm gabby on here and im replying to passions...It also ties into the natural and sexual selection thing me and you were discussing....anyway in the bottom are the 2 posts in bold...the first one is passions speaking and the second one is me.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/EbonyWomenIvoryMen/index.php?showtopic=254
passions wrote:
Gabby, the chat you and I had has really stuck in my mind. For some, too many people have been buying into the myth that black men are the most masculine men and that black women are the least feminine women. Your biological proof really exposed why that type of brainwashing is so false. We discussed the differences in what is truly biologicially feminine and masculine and what is just brainwashing and social preferences and how those preferences differ based on culture.
hair lenghth
skin darkness and lightness
lip size
body hair
breast size
buttock muscles
hip size
eye shape
And we discussed both genders of the black, white and asian races. I was wondering if you could share some of your facts with others on this board because the conclusions were very informative and may be interesting to many. Thanks.
....................................
then gabby (me) wrote:
the way i see it no race lines up more feminine or masculine than the other in terms of physical features because the same amount of femininity and masculinity can be found in all races. anyway i hope i dont offend anyone for what im about to say.
hair lenghth
as far as hair length goes, that's a cultural thing and not based on biology as it relates to femininity and masculinity.In fact it could be argued that hair thickness has mroe to do with femininity than hair legnth because men bald more and at earlier ages than women (meaning they lose the thickness of thier hair).
skin darkness and lightness
as far as darkness and lightness of skin goes...well its a fact that men are slightly darker than women on average and this darkness is in part caused by their testosterone level. But again the testosterone levels effect on skin darkness is very slight and has way less to do with it than other factors like exposure to the sun and genetics. But one benefit of dark skin for women is that it preserves the womans beauty longer than having lighter skin. Because people with lighter skin hues are more likely to get acne and wrinkle at earlier ages(this is especially true for whites). So while skin may be slightly more feminine than darker skin it oesnt mean its more benefical to women or that its by nature lighter skin is always more beautiful on a woman than darker skin.
This would also mean that asian men and black men are more masculine than white men in this department.
lip size
as far as lip size goes, according to biology, women naturally have slightly thicker lips than men on average. So thicker lips are a more feminine thing...this is why women put lip stick on to make their lips look larger and accent their lips...men on the other hand dont wear lipstick. Its also why you have women getting lip injections but not men. you do the math on how that relates to black women.
This would also make white and asian men more masculine than black men in this department.
body hair
as far as body hair goes well whites have mroe body hair than blacks and we all know body hair is also tied to the testosterone level. so having body hair is a more masculine thing.
breast size
everyone knows breast size is more feminine and from my own experiences as well as from reading biological studies black women are said to have more salient breasts than white and aisan women.
hip size
as far as hip size goes asian and white women have wider hips...and its obvious hip size is tied to femininity. In this area white and asian womena re more feminine
eye shape
well slanted eyes are a more masculine thing because men on average tend to have more slanted eyes than women. women ahve more wide set and more "open" eyes.
some things that werent mentioned were leg and torso legnth. women on average have longer legs and shorter torsos than men. blacks on average have shorter torsos and longer legs...so you do the math on that one
large thighs and a more portruding buttocks are also biologically feminine qualities so in this area black women line up more feminine. height is also a masculine thing so asian women line up more feminine in that area.
smaller heads are also a more feminine thing and when compared to whites...blacks have smaller heads.
so really this idea that black men are more masculine and black women are the least feminine women is jsut pure bullshit if we were to actually examine women and men on a biological basis and lose the eurocentric beauty standards that we were raised to see through.
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Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 467
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 08:52 pm: |
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and i do agree with serena that black men have NOT had it harder than black women. They only have a DIFFERENT load to carry but as far as white supremacy goes i dont think that the load blakc men carry is any heavier than the load black women carry. Yes black men ahve it harder in different ways BUT, black women also have it harder in different ways that black men cant even imagine. So to me neither load is heavier than the other.
i also agree with serena when he says a mans beauty is not judged as harshy as a womans beauty. yes its true men are also judged on their beauty BUT not to the same extent that women are.
I only disagree with serena when he says black men have never been considered more attractive or sexier than white men. I think that white people actually do view black men as sexier and more attractive, but on the other hand the rest of the world looks at it differently. Asians and latinos and arabs all view black people (both men and women) as less attractive...whites on the other hand have always been a bit different on that eventhough they're the ones that created the white beauty standard that everyone follows. I think there is a certain amount of jealousy of black people when it comes to many whites (not all but many). They simply created the beauty standards so that they could maintain power. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7046
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:01 pm: |
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Serena,
Where do I say men and women were held to the SAME standard? I never said that. I said it definitely helps a man - Black, White or Brown - to be goodlooking.
Again. All other things being equal, a goodlooking man will do better than a homely one.
I have seen PLENTY of goodlooking men living off of and sponging off of googly-eyed chicks. Hell. I've got a cousin who's made that shyt into a form of Dark Magic.
And while White men may be more desired for what they have in the way of money and influence, I see very little evidence - including from WHITE foks themselves - that White men are universally perceived to be better LOOKING than Black men. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 469
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:01 pm: |
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another thing that would make black men more masculine is muscularity because blacks on average have more muscle mass...
again nietherr race line s up more "feminine" or "masculine" than the other.
the question ABM was asking sounds similar to what that racist steve sailer tries to tout in is article "why men prefer blondes" where he argues that white ans asian women are by BATURE more attractive than black women because they supposedly line up more feminine (light skin and wider hips, etc.)
i realize that you (ABM) arent nessesarily saying black women are least feminine but you are questioning it. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7048
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:13 pm: |
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Misty,
Why is this issue of whether Black men have it harder than Black women even coming up? I never asserted that to be true.
I agree men have HISTORICALLY not been judged as much for their appearance as women were. But I think the margin in that regard is diminishing. Because as women gain more economic freedom and independence, they've beginning to focus more on how men look.
Some of the biggest increases in beauty and plastic surgery involve MEN attempting to prettying up. Men are getting botox, pectoral and calf injections. Some are wearing bronzers. Getting manicures. Pedicures. Mousse. Blond highlights...
*UGH* |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7049
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:16 pm: |
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Misty,
I'm NOT arguing Black women are less attractive than other women. But I'm just pondering whether there facets to how we perceive human characteristics ultimately results in what's perceive to be attractive. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 470
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:33 pm: |
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Why is this issue of whether Black men have it harder than Black women even coming up? I never asserted that to be true.
i felt you were saying that because you said somethign like black men are more hated. But if that wasnt what you were implying then im sorry i misinterpreted what you were saying.
I agree men have HISTORICALLY not been judged as much for their appearance as women were.
it still holds true for today though
But I think the margin in that regard is diminishing. Because as women gain more economic freedom and independence, they've beginning to focus more on how men look.
i agree that its diminishing to a certain extent but there is still a HUGE gap between the amount that men are judged on their beauty and the amount that women are. As serena pointed out a man can still be considered sexy up into his 60s....even if he's overweight (a good example was barry white). And billy bob thorton was considered a sex symbol to some.
Some of the biggest increases in beauty and plastic surgery involve MEN attempting to prettying up. Men are getting botox, pectoral and calf injections. Some are wearing bronzers. Getting manicures. Pedicures. Mousse. Blond highlights...
LOL...this is true
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Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 471
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:36 pm: |
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I'm NOT arguing Black women are less attractive than other women. But I'm just pondering whether there facets to how we perceive human characteristics ultimately results in what's perceive to be attractive.
i realize that you werent arguing that but you were questioning rather or not there is something in our biology subconsciously that tells us lighter skin is more feminine and darker skin more masculine. You may not have said it in those words but i felt that that was the question you were implying....and i do realize you were only asking a question and not making an assertion...i was simply answering the question according to the biological studies that i had read on what accounts for femininity and masculinity. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 944
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:54 pm: |
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Again ABM you are missing my point. Ppl who are considered attractive have always had it easier than unattractive ppl. That is in every society. However, the standards for which we deem men "attractive" are different than the standards that we deem women.
And no Misty Black men as a group have never been deemed more attractive than white men. Yes! Certain Black men from the past to the present day have been deemed attractive even moreso than men of other races. But Black men as a group have never been deemed more attractive than White men.
Because why would whites being the dominant culture promote the Black male beauty aesthetic over there own? |
Sohra
Newbie Poster
Username: Sohra
Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:50 am: |
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are the Blackest of Black men the handsomest of all the world's men?
well, I prefer men who look like T.I .. but I dont know if ya'll know the english singer simon webbe?.
well he is darkskinned.. but damnn he is sooo hot.. here are some pictures
a WARNING for the ladys.. pleas don't drool
http://www.simonwebbe.net/
http://www.starswelove.com/hollywood/men/simon_webbe01.htm
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Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 230
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 05:21 am: |
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Tall dark and handsome they mean John Travolta, Ashton Krutcher, Anthony Quinn. They dont mean somebody who will make a non-white baby. Abm there is a difference between tall dark and handsome and KING KONG. That is how they see black man as KONG even most white women who want black men really want the thrill of KONG worshipping them (and I dont blame them) but Pierce Brosnan is standard of tlal dark and handsome.
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Zuriburi
Regular Poster
Username: Zuriburi
Post Number: 165
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 08:15 am: |
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ABM, there is a social theory that the primary reason why Black men's stock has gone up in recent years is primarily due to their increased visibilty in the culture as athletes/jocks and entertainers. Both very idolized genres of masculinity.
I think that even if there is some validity to darkness in men/lightness in women being more attractive theory (I am not convinced), that would hold true only within the the shade variations of that racial group, and other racial groups who appear significantly different would be seen as abnormal/grotesque. Of course this is all in the absence of the global white supremacy machine. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3666
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
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Much has been made over the years about black women preferring darkskinned men. But to be honest, in high school and during my 20's and even now, I knew way more sistas who preferred lightskinned guys over darkskinned ones. And, back then, the sistahs who did prefer either dark or really dark ones only made headlines because it was out of the ordinary and (for many) if was refreshing.
Because of colorism, perhaps, blk females were usually goo-goo, gaa-gaa over men that looked more like Will Smith, Special Ed & LL Cool J.; and before them: DeBarge & the like. Of course Gansta Rap/sports DID change some of this--but it's still why so many darksinned boys have had to overcome a complex as they got older…. Many talked about the bias they have/had towards black females which stems from how they were treated by blk girls when they were younger. Colorism seems to have affected them deeply, at least when they were kids.
Also when you look throughout our history, the trend for black women (thx to colorism) was to marry as light as possible, and most darkskinned men were allowed to marry into influential families ONLY if they were successful or had some kind of wealth. Otherwise they were greatly discriminated against by these women and, oftentimes, their friends & families.
So I aree, the theory DOESN'T seem to ring true and we can look to OUR OWN history and culture to figure that. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3667
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
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...by "influential families" I mean lightskinned ones. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2392
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Enchanted, I hate to burst your bubble but Pierce Brosnan ain't all that he's cracked up to be:
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Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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When did I say that I liked Pierce Brosnan? I listed a few archtypes and those types still stand btw. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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Let me be more clear. I dont like white men. I was responding to Abm's subject on the table.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7055
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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Misty,
Okay. This is sorta straying from the primary issue. But I'm going to make this point in hopes of clarifying things. In some ways and instances Black men are more loathe that Black women. Why? Because we're typically more FEARED than Black women. The White people (particularly White MEN) who have all the power do not fear Black women as they do Black men. They indeed may hate or loathe you. But I doubt they're as likely to clutch their purses and lock their car doors when you appear than when I appear.
'Tis not to say Black women are catching hell. It's just often a more subtle form of hell.
Certainly the beauty issues we discuss here are a form of hatred exacted against you. You are also denied myriad business, lending and job opportunities. And your being female confers upon you even FEWER of those opportunities than a Black man might garner.
Plus you bear disproportionately greater reproductive and child rearing risks and burdens.
Enchanted,
I suspect your "KING KONG"(and don't forget the mythical DONG part) analogy is quite apt.
Zuriburi,
I'd agree the ascent of the imagery of the Black male jock/entertainer probably is a HUGE factor why many non-Black women have become interested in Black men. Eddie Murphy, Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan, Snoop Dogg, Usher, etc. are like living billboards of some idealized view of Black men. And (with the rare expections of the Diana Ross's, Whitney Houston's and Beyonce's) Black men have been given MANY more opportunities to succeed in the popular media and entertainment than have Black women.
Tonya,
I think darkerskinned jocks and entertainers like Denzel, Wesley Snipes, Murphy, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Isiah Washington and most of the more popular browner/blacker hip-hop stars (e.g., Biggie, Snoop, Tupac, etc.) made being a BLACK man more popular over the last 20 years. I agree prior this, Black women appear to prefer lightskinned men.
All,
Indeed it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to make an honest, valid argument about beauty sans including race/racism, prejudice, tribalism, economics, politics/power, etc. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2395
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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Enchanted - I just saw this pic of Brosnan on the net yesterday, and when you mentioned him as being the standard of tall darkness, I thought I'd bring you back to reality. That's all. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 233
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Years ago nobody believed that dark black men would be all the rage. I have been predicting that dark skinned black women are going to become very popular in the future but no one has believed me. This society feeds on one fettish and then must have a new one to replace it. That is why I get sick of the "poor darkie woman" campaign because she is the next major sex symbol to be hyped up in the next hundred years watch and see. When I first saw Naomi Campbell was the top model on earth and Serena and the really black Fugee Laurel broke through I said OK it is being planted now.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3671
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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"Tonya,
I think darkerskinned jocks and entertainers like Denzel, Wesley Snipes, Murphy, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Isiah Washington and most of the more popular browner/blacker hip-hop stars (e.g., Biggie, Snoop, Tupac, etc.) made being a BLACK man more popular over the last 20 years. I agree prior this, Black women appear to prefer lightskinned men.
But ABM this means it ISN'T INNATE. That's what the study suggested and it's what I THOUGHT you were arguing AGAINST.... 'Course right now I'm confused. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7063
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Tonya,
First of all, I have NOT firm position on this issue. I'm mostly attempted to broaden the palette and canvas of what has largely become a rather trite and predictable topic of discussion here.
And at the very end of my last post I said "Indeed it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to make an honest, valid argument about beauty sans including race/racism, prejudice, tribalism, economics, politics/power, etc." Because when you REALLY/HONESTLY think about it, there is NO beauty standard or concept that is free of issues that are non-aesthetic in source and nature. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3673
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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Ok, ok...I gotchu.
Like you said, this discussion HAS veered in several directions. LOL
Btw, my comment was mostly in response to the initial question you raised. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 945
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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I SEE AGAIN YOU BLACK MEN HAVE GOTTEN IT INTO YOUR HEADS THAT WHITE SOCIETY HAS GRANTED YOU SOME KIND OF "HONORARY WHITE STATUS" JUST BECAUSE "THE MAN" HAS ALLOWED YOU TO THROUGH A BALL INTO A HOOP AND SCREW HIS WOMEN!!!
THE TRUTH IS THAT HE STILLS SEES YOU THE SAME WAY HE DID 50 YEARS AGO.
GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2400
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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SS - R U white??? Cuz you darn sure sound like whitey talking about YOU BLACK MEN? What's up with that? |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3674
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Chile please. Serenasailor is as black as they come. He's one of the men on this board that I can honestly say is a BRUTHA.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2402
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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He sounds like a whiteboy to me. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3675
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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Don't know many white boys that use phrases like "HONORARY WHITE STATUS" and "THE MAN" ...but, ok.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 01:58 pm: |
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”Much has been made over the years about black women preferring darkskinned men. But to be honest, in high school and during my 20's and even now, I knew way more sistas who preferred lightskinned guys over darkskinned ones. And, back then, the sistahs who did prefer either dark or really dark……………
………………were successful or had some kind of wealth. Otherwise they were greatly discriminated against by these women and, oftentimes, their friends & families.
So I aree, the theory DOESN'T seem to ring true and we can look to OUR OWN history and culture to figure that.”
Wow! I’m shocked Tonya. There was a very interesting commentary you wrote. Usually your tone and condemnations are just the opposite. I agree with every word you wrote. The candor and forthrightness of your writing is impressive. Thank you. I have personally experienced and noticed everything you wrote. I recall when I was a kid, there were two contrasting boys who reflect the harsh reality of your writing. One was a very fair complexioned kid named Tim who had medium brown large curls of hair. Black girls would stumble, giggle uncontrollably and literally pee on themselves around this kid.
Then there was another kid named Aaron. Aaron was dark complexioned –very dark. The black girls laughed and mocked that brother as if he had three eyes and a tail. I grew up with him and I never saw a girl take to him. Even in high school, they just laughed at him. As a child, the kids named him Smokey because of his dark complexion. Soon, everyone called him Smokey –even his own siblings. In fact, people thought that was his real name. From day one, when kids razed him for being so dark (even the white kids got in on it) and started calling him Smokey, I NEVER INDULGED IN THAT INTRA GROUP RACISM AND I NEVER, EVER CALLED HIM THAT IGNORANT RACIST NICK NAME. I was the only person who called him by his birth name which was Aaron. I never heard anyone else call him by his real first name.
But he was a very good natured person, I never saw him angry or combative about the skin color harassment. He would just laugh when people would mock and ridicule his dark color. Although he never said anything openly, I know the pain of rejection and ridicule had to run deep when girls would openly and loudly express their disgust and revulsion at his skin color. But what choice did he have?
I grew up with a lot of very fair complexioned kids. I don’t know what they were thinking because I never heard them say anything, but I do know that kids of the opposite sex would treat them different. There was a girl named Pat who was very light complexioned, gray eyes, long sandy colored hair and most of all, she had big round ass (done deal!). She was extra wild, would jump in your face at the blink of an eye, other girls were intimidated by her and she would walk up to guys and grab their crouch’s (this is a true story –the girl was outta control and the guys loved it!). She could have had any brother she wanted and she knew it. Including me because she had that big ass (yes, I know, I’m just as bad as the skin color zealots). But the guys would shamelessly grin and grovel in her presence. They thought she was beautiful.
Ok, enough of my rambling stories. Your commentary concerning skin color and black male is true. Like I said, your honesty about this particular issue was factual and well articulated.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3679
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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Thanks Ntfs. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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"And at the very end of my last post I said "Indeed it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to make an honest, valid argument about beauty sans including race/racism, prejudice, tribalism, economics,........ in source and nature."
Excellent point.......
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Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 946
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:17 pm: |
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My ending point is this. These are not innate biases these are cultural biases. And whatever the standard of beauty is in your society is how you are going to judge men and women. I'm sure that a Congolese women does not view herself as masculine. Nor does a dark-skinned Dravarian women from India. These are society based biases. They are not innate.
Also, attraction is also not as innate think. Attraction is based on taste. And taste can be developed. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:28 pm: |
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Also Ntfs, even though your friend had a hard time growing up he will never face the same type of color-based discrimination that the average Black woman faces, because he is a man. In every society men are the one who do the choosing of who they are going to date and marry. Men set the rules and boundaries.
I have heard Black parents say that they are grateful that they had darker-skinned sons as opposed to darker-skinned daughters. Because again men are not held to the same colorist-caste system. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1492
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
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In every society men are the one who do the choosing of who they are going to date and marry. Men set the rules and boundaries.
From an evolutionary perspective, in just about every species (including our own ancestors) it is the female who does the choosing and the males who fall over themselves, starve themselves, parade all over the place, and fight each other to death just to catch her eye. Modern day women would be wise to remember this ancient fact and act accordingly.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2409
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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Women do the choosing. Period. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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Amen to that Mzuri! |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 948
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 05:04 pm: |
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Maybe from an evolutionary standpoint(if you believe in evolution). However, culturally men are the ones who do the choosing. In African society it is men who are allowed to have more than one wife. And if women did do the choosing do you think that they would have their clitorises ripped out just so they could get a husband?
And if women did the choosing 40% of African American women wouldn't face the prospect of being alone. If women did the choosing the color-cast system in every society of color would not exist.
No it is the men who do the choosing because they are the one who set the standard and lead every society. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2410
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 05:33 pm: |
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Wrong. Men don't lead any society. Women do. It's the women who run the men. Why do you think you get up everyday and take your ass to work? To take care of yourself? No - to take care of your women. Thank you.
And the stupid morons over in Africa with the multiple wives, they are gettin run like a mother-fucker. Several times over. Men ain't runnin SHIT! LOLOL! |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 238
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 08:13 pm: |
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Serenasailor post is dead on. How can Mzuri and Yvette disagree with the facts? This lie about women choosing reminds me of that old saying about black women being free during slavery because white men raped them regularly making the white man and black woman free. Why all the clit cutting and multiple wives in Africa if women are the rulers? Perhaps its the women who fit the beauty standard that do the choosing?
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1299
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 08:48 pm: |
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"This lie about women choosing reminds me of that old saying about black women being free during slavery because white men raped them regularly making the white man and black woman free. Why all the clit cutting and multiple wives in Africa if women are the rulers? Perhaps its the women who fit the beauty standard that do the choosing?"
Hmmmmmmmm......very good point.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2413
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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And it's the African women who cut each other's clits!
Enchanted, just because you are willing to accept the crumbs that are thrown your way, does not mean that you comprehend the natural order of things. I am not making an all encompassing statement that pertains to every living human relationship on earth. I am saying that for the most part, it is the woman who decides with whom and with what frequency she is going to distribute the pussy. Because the PUSSY controls EVERYTHING!!! Yes, men have some small say so in the decision making process as to who they are going to marry, etc. but it is the woman who makes the ultimate choices in regard to EVERYTHING! The fact remains that men are a dime a dozen and women are the rulers of the world.
It's not too late for you to discover your PUSSY POWER.
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Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 243
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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If women are the rulers of the world then please explain to me why things are so dreadfully bad? It's a man's world. Women age not men.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2420
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:36 pm: |
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Enchanted - "It's A Man's World" is a James Brown song that someone drilled into your head. And your bickering isn't going to change the facts - I'm not going to repeat what I've already said.
Even if more women were heads of state, the condition of the world would be just as bad because of the overpopulation, poverty, disease, violence, wars and chaos that the various civilizations have allowed themselves to succumb to. And unfortunately I don't have a resolution for all of that.
Just realize your own power and start controlling your own world. If more of us would just do that, the world would be a better place already.
Things are not dreadfully bad at my house. As to the aging, speak for yourself because I'm holding up quite nicely 
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