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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6991
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 05:52 pm: | 
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I saw Will Smith's Pursuit of Happyness. I don't think it was a great film. But dayam if it didn't get down inside of me.
It truly is a gift.
If you love and believe in Black fathers, I recommend you see Pursuit of Happyness. And take a daddy with you. |
Robynmarie
Regular Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 217
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 06:23 pm: |
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Did it bother you there was no black mother portrayed?
I have not seen the film, but this was one complaint I have heard. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1623
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:02 pm: |
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Well, it is based on a true story. So if that's the way it went before......
Also, that aside.....I don't think that Will Smith will be paired with a black female as a serious love interest in a movie. It hasn't happened yet (outside of his TV show) and I don't think it will. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1322
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:34 am: |
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"Did it bother you there was no black mother portrayed?"
Thandie Newton??
ABM, I thought it was an excellent film. The most touching scene for me was when he was washing his son in the homeless shelter before he went to bed. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6995
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 07:44 am: |
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Robynmarie,
No. Never even thought about that, actually.
Sorry(?)
Renata,
The lovely and unmistakably African American Regina King portrayed Will's character wife in Enemy of the State (which I believe is one of his better films). They were good together.
I can't believe Will would avoid EVER having a Black love interest in his future movies.
BB123,
I wouldn't have mentioned Thandie Newton because I KNOW all that'll do is set off virulent anti-biracial diatribes.
The most touching scenes for me were in the public restroom and during his meeting with principals of Dean Witter near the end of the movie.
Although I believe be did a wonderful job in Pursuit of Happyness, I am still unsure of Will Smith's overall acting skill. I think in that regard he's still learning. But I definitely think he has the talent and aura to become a great actor. I just hope his movie stardom don't preclude his becoming such. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3643
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 08:57 am: |
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Hmmmm. Don't know much about the movie. But it's funny how out of all of the triumphant success stories there must be about black fathers, they chose the one that shows the (replicated) black mother in the most negative light. ...Almost as though that’s the only way to make a black man look good.… Reminds me of Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy in 48HOURS: Eddie - the buffoonish convict, Nolte - the hero. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1326
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:00 am: |
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The mother portrayed in the movie was a pretty crappy character; too cranky & bitchy. And she was not supportive of her husband at all. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1516
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
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haven't seen the film, but here are my two cents that make me reluctant to give my money to these folks:
1. along with the million man march, the moynihan report, both liberals and conservatives, this movie is based on the assumption that black men do not do right by their children. I think most do....
2. related to #1, if black men don't do right by their children, then this movie shows that a few do and that other black men need to follow suit...thereby reinforcing #1.
3. And most importantly, the movie like the moynihan report, much of the underclass socalled scholarship, the million man march, etc...implicitly blames the poverty of black people, perhaps I am overstating this, on the black women who demand more from their husbands and partners....
ok...there it is.
4.damn, oh yeah...and I hate these black hortio alger stories that by themselves can be encouraging and inspiration but in the battle of race relations, it is just another weapon, the amiable side of the rhetoric of bill cosby, john ridley, and juan williams who make the same point as the movie but, of course, without sentimentality....i'm done...finished! |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 227
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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You haven't even seen the damn movie!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7005
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
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Tonya,
Brothas had the same feelings about The Color Purple. And there were many MORE negative portrayals of Black men in that movie than their were of Black women in Pursuit of Happiness.
Likewise with Waiting To Exhale.
And maybe it's just me. But I felt more sorry for and sympathetic of wife/mother in Pursuit than I did anger toward and resentment of her. I think they probably were both good people who hit a rough patch and she just couldn't handle it any more. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7006
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Yukio,
No disrespect. But boy if your a$$ don't be overanalyzing the shyt out of things.
Just go see the movie. I PROMISE after you've seen it amongst the very LAST things you'll be thinking about is the gotdayam Moynihan Report. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3645
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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They sure did ...and 48HOURS and hundreds like it, too.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6129
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 01:39 pm: |
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Yukio, my love, why are you so turned-off by "Horatio Alger" stories? Their aim is to inspire, and black men need all of the inspiration they can get, as opposed to depictions about how the white racist system prevents black men from rising, a message that serves mostly to reinforce failure. And since your big beef is that black men get a bad rap, why are you so positive that rising above adversity is so rare among the millions of them out there? Hardly a vote of confidence. And lest we forget, a lot of Rap millionaires are Horation Alger examples. They started out with nothing, but believed in themselves and achieved success through determination and hard work. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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abm: i doubt that the moynihan report would be the last thing[s] I think about. The movie may not directly badger black women's independence. But in comparison to much of what is promulgated in popular culture, the demonization of black women, I believe, must be considered. The pursuit of happiness has a political bent, and will smith has admitted this; he is responding to the idea that black men have been poor parents and men in general, which has some truth in it but it aint The Truth! It is, therefore, a reactionary, defensive response to show that a FEW black men are good men, though the majority are not.
As you said elsewhere, it is said that black men have to respond this rubbish [you referred to my thread on the movie, although will smith's movie is no different...just longer and more expensive].
Finally, while I listed four points, I see them as all part of one position. That position claims that assiduity in school and in the formal economy will solve poverty for the black community. I think not. And most of you know my position. To recapitulate, that assiduity and activism must be combined.
This leads me to cynique, my elder, as you are of course, abm.
My beef is not that black men get a bad rap, it is that black people in general do in general and the black poor in particular, both men and women.
Furthermore, I am not saying that "rising above adversity is so rare," I am saying that individual success does not equal group success, particularly when the battle is not an individual battle but a group battle that we need to wage both as individuals and as a group. Individual success abounds, but it rarely, yes rarely, translate in to greater wealth for black people. A group wealth can not come about if blacks do not coordinate their wealth for the community. This is done by having a good job, yes, but also resurrecting institutions that seek to create black and community conscious individuals...not just fathers, but community builders not just college graduates, but folk willing to do community service. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6136
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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But will a movie about this make money?? LOL. Of course you're right, Yukio. We must be ever vigilant against the danger of being mesmerized by individual achievements. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7035
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:09 pm: |
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Yukio,
I guess we all take our socio-political dispositions everywhere we go. But, honestly, I seriously DOUBT after seeing Pursuit of Happyness one would view such to be a polemic of Black women.
You don't see the man being constantly rejected and dogged by assorted Black women (as you seen in reverse in assorted Yo Go, Gurl movies I refer to above). There's no loving and empathetic White (or other non-Black) woman there to save the day.
Even when they argue in the film you get the impression he understands and is empathetic to how his wife feels. He's just struggling with how to fix things.
And the film makes NO sweeping arguments about how industry and providence will elevate the conditions and alleviate the plight of Black foks. Nonewhatsoever.
Frankly. The movies just not that 'big' in scale or purpose, Yukio.
You just see a father, who happens to be Black, struggle to survive and progress at a very LOW point in his life.
I understand that at some point the real man temporarily reconciled with his wife sometime after the time period covered in the film. And that was AFTER he'd turned things around. So obviously the women was NOT some worthless, heartless, incorrigible harridan some seem to revel in alluding to.
And btw: What the hell have we descended into when we critizes a movie based on a TRUE story about a Black man doing any/everything he can to prosper WHILE taking care of his children? |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1519
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:41 pm: |
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elder abm,
yes, i do take my socio-political disposition everywhere I go. Also, the women component is part of the larger issue which is black poverty and the "dysfunctional" black family. And, my comments about the movie are meant to be understood when the context of popular culture in general as it regards black folk, this includes, movies, literature, both non-fiction and fiction, music, etc...
I hear you. But keep in mind, i am criticizing the movie not the veracity of the story nor its power to inspire. And, I am placing it in the larger context of popular culture and images of black folk with which will smith has chosen to engage.
and as I said, i am not saying that the movie attempts, by it self, to do all that I have alleged. So, I agree it aint "big" in scale.
however, will smith did say that he wanted to provide a better image of black manhood.
The broader context:
That context is popular culture and the themes include the black family and poverty. And one of the major positions in this dialogue within popular culture, and the pursuit of happiness is only ONE part but a instrumental part none the less[since it is so sentimental and therefore tacitly harmless], includes those who advocate assiduity as a panacea for black impoverishment and the irrelevance of racism.
Outside of the context of popular culture:
On 106 and Park, will smith said that his character didn't care what the obstacle, be it racism or an individual, he was gonna overcome it and he told his son not to allow anyone or anything to deny him of what he wanted. I agree with that attitude! I try to actualize this everyday!
Within the context of popular culture:
But in the larger context, this same encouraging message really means that racism is just a barrier but black themselves are THE barrier to their own social, economic, and political emancipation. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7044
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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Yukio,
No diss intended. But I think you should go see the movie. Then maybe we can have a fairer discussion about its broader messages and implication.
But I will say as Black father it felt dayam GOOD seeing in a major motion picture a Black man fight like hell to take care of his kid. In THAT respect, it the film was very personal to me. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1483
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 09:53 pm: |
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Personally, I am looking forward to seeing it. ABM, others: would you say it is OK for younger children (6 yo)?
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Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 09:15 am: |
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Yes. It's an excellent film for all age groups. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1522
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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well then, it is unlikely that we'll have a fair discussion. unless someone else pays for it, i'm not giving him my money...lol!
according to a friend of mine, i have seen the movie...LOL! She claims that the best scenes are advertised in the commercials; she also said, that beyond the sentimentality of the father son- relationship, she didn't think it was all that because he had skills[salemen can sale anything].
On some of the NYC black radio stations, I have heard the same comments. They like the father son component but dont think much of it partly because they never bought the shibboleth that black men were bad fathers in the first place...also, many folk didn't think he overcame much, they are quite familiar with people who overcome being homeless and jobless on a normal basis. Many callers said that things like, "aint like he was on drugs and shit.." or "shit, that aint nothing...i aint too far from the poor house." I am not saying, of course that its not a good story, but for people who are [1] always one-step from the poor house and/or [2] don't buy these negative images of black fathers in the first place, the movie doesn't elicit any emotional appreciation. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1334
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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Wow. It really moved me. He went through hell, in my eyes. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7057
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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Yvettep,
I think it's a WONDERFUL film to take a 6 year old to see. In fact, adults should make it a POINT to take children to see it. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 234
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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I loved the movie to see it twice and went with my boyfriend and my sons both times. I think Will made something important this time. Go see it.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7058
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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Yukio,
Sounds like to me you, your friend and the other people you refer to had already made up your mind about what you thought of the movie LONG before you saw(or see) it.
Moreover, there's a embitterness to the polemics of Pursuit I find most unfair and unfortunate. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7059
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Enchanted,
My wife has already seen it 3 times. And we'll probably go see it again this weekend.
She loves to cry at movies while sipping grossly overpriced pop. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 235
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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It's the best movie this year. I will see "Dreamgirls" coming up but I already know me. It will not top POH. I think Yukio doing himself a disservice to prejudge and he's listening to bitter ass feminists who prejudged. Where the hell does MONIYHAN fit in? Black motherhood? WTF! Yukio is angering me.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7060
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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Enchanted,
I'm actually shocked by the politicizing of a movie that did NOT appear to be making ANY kind of political statement.
I mean, there are no real villians in the movie. Sure there's been some hubbub about the estranged wife/mother. But considering the hell they were going through, you can easy see how and why she reacted as she did to their situation.
There just were no 'big picture' issue in the movie for the advocacy crowds to squawk at.
Although, of course, some foks don't really need much stimulus to jerk-off on. |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 236
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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The fact is there are some women like the mother and thats life just like Color Purple was real life. I dont see a problem with showing a trifling ass black woman especially based on a real life story. This movie was not anti-anybody.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2396
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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I saw the whole movie on Oprah for free. She had Will S. and Mr. Millionaire on as guests, Mr. Millionaire told his whole story and they even had his adult son talk about their experience. Why bother to see a movie when you already know the outcome? We (collectively) need to stop using our limited funds to enrich Hollywood (how many cars does Will S. need?) and start using our (collective) resources and BRAINPOWER to fund worthy causes, instead of behaving like we're a bunch of brainwashed zombies and wasting our money at the box office ticket counters every time a new movie comes out - like we don't have shit else to do. Boycott Hollywood. Invest that money in your retirement funds!!! Take your children on a picnic!!! Create your own experiences for free!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6150
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 01:36 pm: |
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I heard the same things as you did about the movie, Yukio; long on schmaltz and short on substance. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1523
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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abm: as you know, I have not seen it. but my friend had not made up her mind before seeing the movie. she didn't think it was that deep. thats all! when we discussed it, she thought my points were interesting, but she had never considered them until I said it...and she more less considered my thoughts as something to think about w/o agreeing or disagreeing with me.
i can not speak for those folk i heard on the radio.
enchanted: it is interesting that you bring me up without addressing me directly.
I am talkin bout the subtext of the movie. and, I am placing this subtext within a larger context of popular culture--the debates on the black poor particularly. And this debate, from e. franklin to b. cosby, is active at the level of policy, such as welfare legislation, and the popular level, movies such as POH, which may not denigrate black women directly but it can be placed within this debate. I have said this, already. otherwise, when viewed its own merit, including the acting, storyline, etc... it may be an inspirational movie about black fatherhood in the face of poverty. I do not deny this, but has chosen to see it in its broader dimensions. I hope that this is ok w/you….because I wouldn’t want to anger you!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7066
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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Yukio,
You can apply some alleged negative "subtext" to ANY dayam you partake of in this life, Chief.
Black foks never should have watched the Cosby show because Heathcliff, Claire & Company were some idealized view of Black life that few African American live/know.
Black men should never books authored by Black women because so many of those books are ultra-critical of us.
We should never watch a movie that features Halle Berry because she brandishes a 'false image' of the average African American woman.
We should not watch pro football or buy/wear NFL-insignia garb because eventhough the +70% of the League's players are Black NONE of it's owners are Black.
Don't eat Chinese take out because many Asians don't like Blacks.
I could go on...
Just how FAR do you take this line of thinking before you end up living in a very small, lonely and colorless world? |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1524
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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abm: you are funny and generally not incorrect...i wouldn't make those comments, however...i think you know that, or should i say i hope.
I dont think my framing of the subtext of the movie is negative in and of itself...again, will smith SAID he wanted to provide a positive image of black fathers. this is what he said. and I simply placed the what he said on oprah, 106 and park, and some of the other interviews of which I saw him within the larger debate occurring at the policy level and in popular culture.
you call it living in a small....world, and I call it being politically savvy. i am going to tell you about myself...something I don't do as you have reminded me from time to time in the past:
in the past, i took it for granted that anecdotes were just anecdotes, movies just movies, and an opinion just an opinion....while I try to hold on to this view for the most part, in 1996 when I was in undergrad, i listened and watched how our socalled first black president bill clinton signed the welfare reform bill, based on the scholarship of william julius wilson, the rhetoric of black conservatives, and journalistic accounts of the black welfare queen.
it wasn't because the welfare bill was so bad[it was], but particularly WHY he signed it. He had accommodated those pundits who blamed the poverty of the black community on this very small population that social scientist [then at least] called the underclass. the underclass is the unemployed poor on welfare, who generally come from several generations of welfare recipients and/or have long records of criminal activity; these 'dysfunctional' families are led by black women and their children are the product of out-of-wedlock comminglings as well as multiple sex partners.
i am of the socalled underclass. and i saw many of the people that the academic literature described first hand...some of these descriptions were right on the money but, of course, most of the folk on welfare did not fit these descriptions. these descriptions first angered me but then I got over it because I knew that they indeed had a bit of veracity [like b.cosby's and others' comments] but were really just caricatures of the black poor and only part of a much larger picture. This larger picture i would study in fact that very semester.
i also had taken an African American history course, and some of the book examined urban poverty...those books in 1996 but especially some published recently, COMPLETELY disprove the rhetoric of b.cosby, j.ridley, and their cohorts. these books discussed political economy, deindustrialization, capital mobility, the effects of desegregation on black institutions, and the like...
Thus since then, i have been very conscious of the relationship between popular culture and academic scholarship and how they shape perceptions of black people and affect politics. This is my background, both personal and intellectual.
I do not allow my socio-political disposition to follow me everywhere, but I think personally this issue of black poverty is serious[not that you dont] and I do think that this movie, and much of the rhetoric put forth this past year are in a whole detrimental to the cause of the black poor. ...that is my 2 cents and half, elder ABM.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3682
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:11 pm: |
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Exactly why (white) conservatives CAN'T STAND "Liberal Hollywood" ...they know how powerful it is.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6157
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:22 pm: |
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Funny how you are being attacked by the great upholder of freedom of speech, Yukio. You have a "right" to say anything you feel about this movie. Who cares if it offends others. LMAO. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6158
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:28 pm: |
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Yeah, right. Liberal Hollywood and its power is what cost the Democrats the last election. Middle America doesn't like celebrities throwing their weight around. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:30 pm: |
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tonya: i dont quite understand your pt. could you explain it to me. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3683
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 06:09 pm: |
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"Yukio: Thus since then, i have been very conscious of the relationship between popular culture and academic scholarship and how they shape perceptions of black people and affect politics."
First of all, I totally feel the same way you do. But my point was, I watch a lot of conservative talk shows and I've notice the contempt many of the pundits have for so-called Liberal Hollywood. Barbara Streisand and Whoopi Goldberg are abhorred by these conservative pundits...as are Danny Devito since his infamous performance on "The View" where he did his impression of George W. Bush…and Comedy Central’s Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, for the amount of influence they have on young voters. The disdain these hosts have for some liberal performers is present and abundant because they realize part of what you said…that pop culture shapes perceptions....(and it does). They loathe and disparage "Liberal Hollywood" for much of the reasons you wrote; and that is basically what I meant. However, I’m not comparing your sentiments with the venom these conservatives sometimes spew. That's not your tone at all. I’m saying that their disgust is for the same fundamental reasons you wrote about. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1527
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 08:07 pm: |
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gotcha! |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 08:39 am: |
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tonya: right, those examples you post are clear and direct. but, i am not saying that POH is so clear and direct. i am saying that placed within a political dialogue, it would not be surprised to see conservative republicans or b. cosby use POH has evidence of the need for black people to stop seeing themselves as victims and lift up their bootstraps!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7078
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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Yukio,
Question: How often does Hollywood release films that show positive images of Black fathers? I'd say it seldom does (Hell. Even the films the estimable Denzel Washington make seldom show his character taking care of children.). And since Smith is himself a Black father and has some influence in media, I can understand and appreciate why he might be motivated to do what's almost never done.
Now I guess one can strip to threads his intentions, methods, acting, etc. There's PLENTY fodder for doing such.
I, however, will simply enjoy and applaud Will's efforts and hope that it inspire others to surpass Pursuit of Happiness.
Btw: I don't know why Clinton signed the Welfare Reform bill into law (perhaps he was being politically expedient, perhaps he was earnestly attempting to do the right thing). Nor do I know that to be a bad thing. I'm sure there are myriad problems and issues that have ensued from Welfare Reform. But I also think something HAD to be done to change what was going down. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7079
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 11:09 am: |
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Tonya,
If Liberal Hollywood is so potent why have ALL branches of our Federal government been dominated by the GOP? |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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Hollywood has one over-riding political allegiance: $$$$$$ |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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Thanks for the opinions re: child friendliness. I'd love to find a movie that my husband and I, our daughters *and* my in laws can see over the holidays. This may be the one.
Yukio: Don't sweat it. The premise of this movie just rubs you the wrong way. That has happened to me before--There are movies that I just cannot bring myself to see no matter how good folks say it is.
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Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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elder abm: not often. I agree that it seldom does. Smith's intentions are fine by themselves. But. again. in the context of current debate, it will be used as another weapon. thats all i'm saying.
besides, i don't need POH to prove to me that black men can be good fathers...i believe it already.
My anecdote had less to do with the legislation itself, but more to do with how popular culture and academic writing swayed policy.
On the welfare reform: yes, something had to be done. but what was done was push uneducated, skilless, uninsured U.S. citzens into a very competitive economy, wherein they compete with their exploited brethren immigrants comrades[both legal and illegal]. This only establishing an uninsured [health] working poor that toil for low wages w/o the backing of unions. It also contributes to anti-immigrant behavior among the U.S. poor., both black and white. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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yvettep: right! i saw a time to kill, and hated it. bagger vance, hated it! hurricane w/DW...loved him and couldn't stand the white folk, antoine fisher...interesting narrative....hated the horatio alger element and of course the fact that the government[through the armed forces] provided the venue for him to exclaim: I'm still standing...I'm still here! aghast!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7092
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I think you'll enjoy Pursuit.
Yvettep: "Hollywood has one over-riding political allegiance: $$$$$$"
Indeed. That, and getting high and laid.
Yukio,
I personally don't "need" POH or many other things I partake of. I just ENJOY and APPRECIATE the experience I had watching the movie.
And regarding Welfare Reform: It's only the chicks who tumble and fall that ever really learn to fly.
Btw: Do me a favor. If you're going to insist on conferring upon me some respected "elder" status, I ask that you please refer to me as "Lord Odin: The All-Father".
Because that'll really piss off ChrisH. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6172
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
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Yukio, do you like "Everybody Loves Chris"? The father figure in this comedy is very authentic; strong, but not noble. And the moral to be learned at the end of each episode is painless. Humor is a very effective tool in sending a message. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3698
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 08:29 pm: |
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ABM:
Tonya,
If Liberal Hollywood is so potent why have ALL branches of our Federal government been dominated by the GOP?
That's not my term ABM. I don't think Hollywood is so Liberal.
I know I haven't witnesses the conservatives go after EVERY performer/show/movie in Hollywood, only a couple Liberal ones.
If Hollywood was so liberal you'd think they'd have the axe out more often.
Perhaps Hollywood is conservative. Perhaps, that's why they stayed in power. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3699
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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No longer just black and white
By ROBERT W. BUTLER [A white man]
The Kansas City Star
Posted on Thu, Dec. 21, 2006
Whether they mean to or not, movies reflect the societies that made them.
Sometimes this comes through in what is up there on the screen.
And sometimes, as in the case of the current box-office champ, “The Pursuit of Happyness,” it makes itself felt in what isn’t shown.
“Happyness,” which debuted at No. 1 last weekend, is based on the true story of Chris Gardner, who in the early 1980s was so broke he was living on the streets of San Francisco with his young son, Christopher.
Gardner had sunk his life savings into a plan to sell portable bone density scanners, realizing too late that the machines were too specialized and expensive to have much of a market. The family’s financial woes led to Gardner’s wife leaving for a job in another city.
Down but not out, Gardner landed one of 20 non-paying internships in a big brokerage firm while spending his nights in a homeless shelter.
It’s an uplifting story, and the real-life father-and-son team of Will Smith and Jaden Smith do a terrific job of bringing it to life.
Here’s what I find interesting about all this: Gardner is an African-American, yet nowhere in “The Pursuit of Happyness” is any mention made of his race.
As far as I can tell, he’s the only person of color in the internship program.
On a couple of occasions his supervisor asks Gardner to do menial tasks, like fetching coffee or parking his car. Perhaps the other interns were required to do the same grunge work, but the movie doesn’t show that. In any case, Gardner takes these demands in stride … he seems to regard such tasks as part of an intern’s lot and not as a personal affront.
Had “The Pursuit of Happyness” been made in the era it depicts, I’m pretty sure Gardner’s race would have been an issue.
At that time most big firms were developing aggressive affirmative action programs designed to get persons of color into important jobs. (If Gardner were the beneficiary of some sort of racial quota system, the movie doesn’t mention it.)
Moreover, in the wake of the civil rights era, African-American culture was fighting for recognition like never before. “Blaxploitation” films were still a fresh memory, and disco culture was hot, hot, hot. African-Americans were demanding their piece of the economic pie.
So if this movie had been made in 1982, you can be sure it would have been thick with racial and political overtones as a hard-working black man fights to become a success.
But “The Pursuit of Happyness” was made in 2006, and the people behind it evidently don’t think that Chris Gardner’s race is an issue. He’s depicted as a talented man who’d had some bad luck but possessed the willpower and determination to climb back into the game.
If he’d been portrayed by a white actor, it would have been pretty much the same movie.
Hollywood, which used to take American society to task for its racial injustice, now appears to be colorblind.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/movies/16283374.htm |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 96
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 06:11 am: |
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Will Smith is gay...
Jada is a headbangin, alternative rock lesbian...
...that family is a prime example of why breeding two high yella denegerates is like rollin dice.. their offspring look more white than the two of them combined. LOL! Outright shameful.
The pursuit of bullshit... when was the last time you saw a rosey cheeked, spiral-haired homeless boy? That's like casting the likes of Prince, Thandie Newton, Vanessa Williams, Michael Michelle to portray the Hurricane Katrina survivors who were "left behind." Give me a f*cken break.
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Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Will Smith's son looks as though he spit him right out of his very own mouth; the boy doesn't look Whiter than the two of them at all IMO. And their daughter, Willow (??) reminds me so much of Brandy Norwood. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2467
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Man Who Inspired Hit Film Skips Opening
By Associated Press
December 24, 2006, 10:08 AM EST
MILWAUKEE -- Maybe it was home-state spirit. The man whose rags-to-riches story is told in the movie "The Pursuit of Happyness" spent its opening night speaking at a company party in Wisconsin.
Michael Riggs, the CEO of JHT Holdings Inc., in Kenosha, said he arranged through a talent agency for Chris Gardner to be the inspirational speaker at the company's Christmas party on Dec. 15.
But with all the recent attention on Gardner and the new film starring Will Smith, Riggs doubted Gardner would make it, especially because the movie was premiering the same night.
He was wrong.
"He said, 'I could have been in Rome or with the world's biggest star, Will Smith. But I heard there was a company in Kenosha that had been doing great things, and I'd rather be here with fellow Wisconsinites'," Riggs said.
Gardner, a Milwaukee native, was a homeless, single father in California before becoming a millionaire business executive -- the story told in the film based on his autobiography.
He told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel his recent fame hasn't changed him much, and that he still keeps his "day job" heading a Chicago-based brokerage firm.
"I got up this morning and put my pants on the same way and it felt comfortable," Gardner said.
"This all isn't about me, the movie or the book. This is for us, for everyone who had an opportunity to become negative and decided to go the other way.
"For every father who had to be a mother and every mother who had to be a father, and everyone who had a dream who was told it couldn't happen."
http://tinyurl.com/yfsqdh |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3703
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 03:18 pm: |
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During Mr. Gardner's interview on CNN yesterday, he made it as apparent as possible that he did not approve of the way Will Smith and others are marketing the movie. Of course he couldn't say this straight out--for business reasons--but his position was infact noticeable. His story was meant to inspire NOT to use against poor people or put forth a political agenda, he made clear. He seemed disappointed by this, as well as the notion that poor people are the way that they are because of their vices and nothing else. He said that what happened to him--becoming homeless--can happen to anyone; and that those railing against the poor could very well find themselves in said situation. He spoke of his commitment to the poor/ homeless. And he made quite an effort to distance himself from the manner in which the movie is being marketed.
Anyhoo, here's what someone else who saw the movie had to say:
PURSUIT OF WHAT?
By Pearl Jr.
December 18th, 2006
Despite one very important missing component, Pursuit of Happyness is emotionally gripping and kept me at the edge of my seat the whole two hours. Will Smith was phenomenal and his seven-year old son, Jaden Smith, displayed more than just a few glimpses of greatness that could actually exceed his father’s tremendous acting ability.
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air most assuredly gave America a heart thumping. I mean I cried at the triumph of such a trying situation, yet I couldn’t help but to compare this movie with the Nicolas Cage movie, “The Weather Man”. Both men had to overcome a failed marriage and figure out what to do with the child(ren) of such a failed union. Of course, both women in these movies were frustrated, selfish, and mean-spirited. Except the White women in The Weather Man is converted before the end of the movie by getting remarried. You see, the writer gave important attention to NOT leave a negative impression of White women. This White woman is shown being the perfect happy mother and wife in her new marriage within the last two minutes of the movie. Therefore leaving the White woman’s image justified and redeemed.
The much needed missing component in the Pursuit of Happyness is the Black woman is just left out there being a selfish, mean-spirited, abandoning bitch who never redeems herself nor does Chris Gardner played by Will Smith ever find another lover. I mean with all the tear jerking, heart winching father and son trial and tribulations, and encouragement to succeed despite the obstacles message, why the hell didn’t the writer have a Black man and a Black women walk off into the sunset together as one? Instead Will Smith walks off into the Sunset a single man and a single father, and crosses paths with the real Chris Gardner, who makes a cameo in the movie.
It’s becoming quite clear, Hollywood wants to give Black people only half the pieces of the puzzle. Why? Is it offensive to non-Black people to see Black people in love with another other? I mean there aren’t many or any movies that really have a happily ever after Black couple message.
Now, some of you might be thinking, chill Pearl Jr., this is a true story. Sorry no, it clearly states this is “based on a true story”, which means that some of it is true and some of it is made up. Chris could have feel in love with a Black woman that he met at a local restaurant or on the bus. But you see the trick bag is to never tell the majority of Black people that marriage or solid long-lasting relationships holds the keys to the castle towards upward mobility and racial equality. Omitting the presence of such a valuable union in the Black race is today’s sophisticated method of keeping the Black race down and beneath the White population, i.e., racism.
Just pay attention in nearly every movie, White women have the greatest PR of being so precious that to make her unhappy is worse than death and the Black women is some type of mean, unreasonable, attitude-having, selfish bitch who is the ONLY woman who requires just too much from a man.
In today’s Hollywood, White people simply have no financial problems and everything is normal with that. The White woman in The Weather Man has a big two-story house, just because, and the Black woman in Pursuit of Happyness has nothing, works all the time, and is just too impatient to give a brotha a chance to succeed. You see, the Black woman is under attack and this is just one more sly way to diminish the lovability of the Black woman. Controversial leader, Louis Farrakhan talks about getting something positive in the hands of Blacks but at the same time taking some of it away with the other hand. That’s what The Pursuit of Happyness and nearly every Black movie does.
Movies are seen by millions of people and shape ideas, beliefs, behaviors, and mindsets. Therefore, Blacks should be especially aware of the brainwashing that is set forth by members of the media that just don’t want Blacks to ever get it 100 percent right.
As nearly 10 million people watched the Oprah Winfrey Show featuring Will Smith and the real Chris Gardner, I wondered if Oprah noticed the missing love of Black women in the movie because on her show, she surprised Chris Gardner with a Black woman that he helped financially to finish college and also his words of encouragement contributed to making her a successful Black woman, wife, and mother. Was Oprah making a point? I’d like to think so, because sistahs need to catch a break in the PR department sometimes?
Folks don’t ever be naďve to think that these movies just write themselves. They are written, rewritten and reviewed thousands of times; everything in every movie is premeditated. So we have to complain even in the light of greatness to be even greater because giving off half messages of life and hope is still not all that is needed to enhance the Black race as a whole. I WANT TO SEE ALL THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE! A COMPLETE BLACK LOVE STORY! A COMPLETE HAPPYNESS! PLEASE!
Yes, Pursuit of Happyness is definitely a movie worth seeing. But listen Hollywood, can we please have a Black couple walk off into the proverbial sunset of their bright futures as a Black man and a Black woman completing their lives together?
I’m anxiously waiting to see the movie, Dreamgirls. I have a feeling during these misogynistic Black women times; Black women are portrayed as evil, sex is all I need bitches in that movie too! I wonder if we get dawgged by our men because we are simply too demanding, loud, and unreasonable AGAIN! I certainly do hope, at least (why do we always have to accept “at least”) one Black couple in Dreamgirls walks off into the sunset together so to give the message that we, too, value one another and aim to have complete nuclear families. You know, successful fathers, nurturing mothers, and children coming from intact homes. Statistically speaking, that formula leads to success most often, overwhelming!
http://blackstarnews.com/?c=135&a=2786 |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 289
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
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Tonya why have you not responded to Kola's christmas post to you? I have been waiting to read your response and find it juicy that you ignored it. Do tell.
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Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 290
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:35 pm: |
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Where was this black woman when black men were being shown as scumbags in "Waiting to Exhale" and "Color Purple" and they were not redeemed at the end either? What is the big deal if this movie didn't show a black woman when black women movies do nothing but degrade black men.
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