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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1235
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 09:39 pm: | 
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Column: For young black women, stereotypes go beyond waist size
Kayla Charleston
"I need a dime / that's top of the line / cute face / slim waist / with a big behind." If the media's aesthetic and cultural values could be summed up in one sentence, these words from rap artist Mike Jones would be it.
In the Dec. 1 Kernel, columnist Bryan Kennedy wrote about how the "sex sells" attitude affects the self-esteem of young girls in general. But the truth is that young black girls are inundated with images of more than just 6-foot, 115-pound models who epitomize beauty from a European or "white" standard - there is also a standard that black women are subjected to.
The black standard of beauty is apparent in any rap or even R&B music video on the air. These music videos seem to have no qualms about featuring the stereotypical black woman with a "big behind" and a waist small enough to put Barbie to shame. Though these videos have been highly criticized for their misogynistic misrepresentation of black women, among other things, they still manage to further the notion that this is the ideal woman. As a result, men believe women are supposed to look that way, and females wish they did.
Nonetheless, there are more problems than just body image in the media representation of black women. In music videos as well as TV and movies, there is a noticeable trend: The object of affection, the main character or the featured girl will routinely be light-skinned and long-haired.
This aesthetic value is one that was internalized by the black culture back in the days of slavery. Slave women with light skin, long or wavy hair, and European or white features were allowed to work in the house; meanwhile, women with brown or dark skin and features specific to blacks (e.g. wider facial features and kinky hair) were made to work in the fields.
This racial categorization has brought on what is termed as the Lily Complex, defined as the belief that one has to shift, mask or obscure one's physical appearance to conform to the standards of society in order to be thought of as beautiful.
But the standards don't stop there. Because blacks are in the minority and the dominant race in this country is white, black females are subject to be judged by the white standard of beauty as well. There is little representation in the media of minority women in major roles, and the ones that are present have a tendency to be consistent with the white standard of beauty.
Even so, TV and magazines do not have the only role in projecting standards of beauty. Images of picturesque beauty are thrust into the receptive minds of young girls before they even become aware of what body image or self-esteem is.
As a society, our fixation with beauty is also prevalent in such innocent things as the fairy tales we tell to our children. Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and Snow White are all examples of beautiful fairy-tale figures that live happily ever after. They are also all white. Sadly, black women are not personified in these fairy tales, and so black girls are not seeing themselves in an optimistic light. Because the "beautiful princess" and "handsome prince" are rarely ever black, impressionable black children may have a hard time associating beauty with the color of their own skin.
So where does all of this leave the girl who fits neither the black standard of beauty nor the white standard? Unless she comes from a strong base and is self-assured, she will undoubtedly fall prey to the wiles of society.
I have been fortunate enough to realize that I possess my own kind of beauty, despite what the media says it should be. My hope for you is that you will do the same.
Kayla Charleston is a journalism freshman. E-mail opinions@kykernel.com |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 425
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 10:22 pm: |
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I dont understand why todays black writers dont have anything new to say...everyone already knows this.....the issue has been written about ad nauseum.
Its time to stop talking and simply attempt to make a change (no matter how much you hate yourself)....but most black people arent willing to make that change...they're more content with wearing blonde weaves, burning out their hair with persm and hot combs and using terms like good hair...and refusing to date dark skinned girls and calling eachother black monkeys.
where does it end. These types of articles seem to do nothing more than serve as a laughing pin for other groups who are on the outside looking in saying "see i told you black people are ugly and even they know it"...they dont seem to be accomplishing much at all because 95% of our people are unwilling to change their ways and would rather just bitch and moan about the problem and how the white man made them do what they're doing. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2336
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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I believe that the college journalism freshman would do better to write some positive fairy tales for young black children, because there aren't any new revelations in her opinion piece. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6100
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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I agree, Misty. Furthermore, black culture is not monolithic. It has become a dichotomy, maybe even a prism. There are those who prefer to lead a carefree, flamboyant, edgy lifestyle in pursuit of instant gratification and false happiness, and there are others who choose to be more conservative. At some point black females just have to "live and let live", just be about taking care of their own personal growth, doing the productive things it takes to survive and advance. Crusading to achieve the goal of making everybody over in the image of - Condoleeza Rice is a questionable goal. |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 63
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:27 pm: |
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Considering the existence of pervasive media forces, the message bares repeating. I applaud this writer for raising awareness of these issues... particularly of young black female self esteem.
The Cynner writes: "At some point black females just have to "live and let live", just be about taking care of their own personal growth, doing the productive things it takes to survive and advance."
Do we not (care to) see correlations between the internalization of these same oversexualized images and, say, a young black female's need for validation? Perhaps these same validation-seeking black female VICTIMS will likely not insist that her male counterparts wear condoms in an effort to win their attention, their 'affection'... and the rates of HIV/AIDS continue to rise....
You're a bunch of out-of-touch elitists. Shame on you! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6103
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:45 pm: |
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Words. Empty words. Nothing you say is a revelation, touboootie. All you're prating is the same ol thing people have been saying for years - with no effect. Are you somehow under the impression that you are an original thinker???? |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:36 am: |
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REPENT! wretched Cynner! |
Enchanted
Regular Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 196
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 02:11 am: |
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That article is total B.S. They blow these things out of proportion and victimize black women worse by giving them a victim mentality. I am dark skinned black woman and I have not suffered one bit. I also see a trend to demonize black men by whatever it takes and light skinned women have always bear a heavy burden for nothing that is their own fault. They are hated simply for bringing some beauty and variety to our group. Shame.
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Eastwest
Newbie Poster
Username: Eastwest
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 02:47 am: |
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Enchanted,you must be one of the few sensible
members on the board.Yeah me and my friends had
a laugh when I faked being some light skinned half nigerian female,We were wondering when people would catch on to us.But I'm not going to front, I perfer Exotic looking women. Being from the carribean (JAMAICA AND TRINIDAD) I can tell you that there are A LOT of exotic looking women in the carribean islands,not all women in jamaica look the same.But being light skinned alone, is NOT good enough. A good body is MORE important than having a light skin tone, sharp nice facial features and having a exotic look is enough to get my attention
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6947
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:57 am: |
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"I have been fortunate enough to realize that I possess my own kind of beauty, despite what the media says it should be. My hope for you is that you will do the same."
Funny how the author Kayla Charleston has been (blessedly) shielded from the problems she decries. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 427
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
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ABM, i know i can say never did have ANY problems whatsoever with wanting to look like a white girl and i never liked the look of blonde hair...i always liked jet black hair and red hair....That's just the way ive always been even since i was a small child....alot of people are just weak minded i guess.
not everyone is a stupid mindless drone who believes what white folks tell them. It shouldn't be hard to believe that this girl hasnt had any of those problems. A person can recognize the problem and not be affected by it. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3623
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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Toubobie:
"Considering the existence of pervasive media forces, the message bares repeating. I applaud this writer for raising awareness of these issues... particularly of young black female self esteem."
hear, hear
That's the point the author intended to make...very good comprehension skills!
Ntfs,
what a fabulous article, thanks, absolutely pointed and profound.
Towards the end lies the part I found the deepest:
So where does all of this leave the girl who fits neither the black standard of beauty nor the white standard? Unless she comes from a strong base and is self-assured, she will undoubtedly fall prey to the wiles of society.
And here's the part that I relate to most cuz it's the choice I decided to make:
I have been fortunate enough to realize that I possess my own kind of beauty, despite what the media says it should be. My hope for you is that you will do the same. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2338
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Unfortunately, the Black and white standards of beauty are one and the same - light complexion, chiseled features (thin nose and lips) and long straightened hair. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 430
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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"Do we not (care to) see correlations between the internalization of these same oversexualized images and, say, a young black female's need for validation? Perhaps these same validation-seeking black female VICTIMS will likely not insist that her male counterparts wear condoms in an effort to win their attention, their 'affection'... and the rates of HIV/AIDS continue to rise...."
I agree with this but it wasnt that i cant or dont want to see correlations between this...its just that people have been saying the same thing that the girl said in her article for eons and things have actually gotten worst as far as colorism goes. That's all i was saying. I dont think writing article after article after article on the same thing is helping if the people are not willing to change. As long as the media constantly shows favortism for white and light features....and as long as black people keep saying things like "you're pretty for a dark girl" and all the other ignorrant things ive heard....nothing is going to change....people dont seem to be paying these articles any attention because they are too happy living in their white world.
and i do have to agree with mzuri...the best thing would be for the author to write positive childrens books for black children.
"You're a bunch of out-of-touch elitists. Shame on you!"
LOL...i'm nowhere near being an elitist |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 431
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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But really black people should already know what's up when they see white people tanning and getting lip injections and wearing lipstick to make their lips look thicker......that alone should send off red flags in our heads right there that the beauty standard that they tout so much is unreal. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3625
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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Kayla Charleston said:
So where does all of this leave the girl who fits neither the black standard of beauty nor the white standard? Unless she comes from a strong base and is self-assured, she will undoubtedly fall prey to the wiles of society.
Toubobie said (to Cynnique):
Do we not (care to) see correlations between the internalization of these same oversexualized images and, say, a young black female's need for validation? Perhaps these same validation-seeking black female VICTIMS will likely not insist that her male counterparts wear condoms in an effort to win their attention, their 'affection'... and the rates of HIV/AIDS continue to rise....
YA ON THE BALL SISTAGURL!
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Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1595
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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Misty:
"But really black people should already know what's up when they see white people tanning and getting lip injections."
Moonsigns:
The lip injections are one thing, but white women look NOTHING like black women when they tan -and aren't trying to "look" black.
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Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 433
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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never said they were trying to look completely black but they certainly arent trying to look white either....someone brought up the point that the beauty standard for black and white women was the same but i disagree because while black owmen are trying tog et lighter and are teased for thick lips white women are trying to get darker and make their lips look larger. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 434
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:56 am: |
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black women look nothing liek white women when we put on blonde hair either but msot people would say a black woman is trying to look white when she does that. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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"So where does all of this leave the girl who fits neither the black standard of beauty nor the white standard? Unless she comes from a strong base and is self-assured, she will undoubtedly fall prey to the wiles of society."
Excellent point. I'd like to see someone answer this. This is a bottom line question and conundrum. Anyone care to respond?
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2339
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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Have y'all ever heard of a Black person trying to make themselves look darker? Of course not. The standard of beauty is a light complexion. When white women tan, they are trying to get bronze, not black. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6949
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:10 pm: |
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There's often too much made of whether or not some sista matches some fallacious beauty standard. Because very few Black or White (or Yellow or Brown) women match ANY beauty standard.
I often get the impression that many women feel as though if they're not turning the heads of EVERY man, there's something wrong with the cosmic order of the universe or something. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6950
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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Misty,
I just think it's interesting when someone cites a problem that's affecting some MANY women yet the author herself has been uniquely immune. |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1598
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:16 pm: |
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Misty:
"black women look nothing like white women when we put on blonde hair either but most people would say a black woman is trying to look white when she does that."
Moonsigns:
For the most part, I agree -and I think the double-standard is wrong. However, because there are varying shades of "black", there are, in fact, some "black" women who do look more white than black, when they wear blonde wigs. But, it doesn't mean they are necessarily trying to look more white either -it's just a reflection of their "mixed" blood backround.
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Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1599
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Mzuri:
"Have y'all ever heard of a black person trying to make themselves look darker? Of course not."
Moonsigns:
I've met a few black women that want to be darker. One in particular, she, to this day, lays out in the sun during summer because she wants to be darker. During the winter, she uses self-tanner. She doesn't like her light skin-tone at all and is actually very insecure about it.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1242
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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"When white women tan, they are trying to get bronze, not black."
An excellent and very real point Mzuri. Thank you. I have often said this myself. There is no sane reason for a white woman to desire to look black just as no self respecting black woman should desire to look like a white woman.
"There's often too much made of whether or not some sista matches some fallacious beauty standard. Because very few Black or White (or Yellow or Brown) women match ANY beauty standard."
This is also very true. In fact, I have noticed how many women of all races are slightly left of the Bell curb of looks. Not many match up to the poster girls and center folds. Not being partial because I'm sure the same could be said for men. IMO.
"I often get the impression that many women feel as though if they're not turning the heads of EVERY man, there's something wrong with the cosmic order of the universe or something."
Ya know what bro ABM, I think that is the core of the issue. The haters and constant whiners are not turning heads nor getting the same attention from men the "unauthentic" women they relentlessly rail against. It's as simple as that!!!!!
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2341
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
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Okay. There's one Black person on the entire planet that's trying to get darker.  |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1602
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:41 pm: |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1603
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Abm,
You made a great point!!!!!!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6108
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:35 pm: |
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Like most young women, ours live for today. They don't have the time it takes for the male of the species to experience an "ephiphany" about the nobleness of appreciating a so-called "authentic" women. These babes want to look "hot" because that's what makes them popular. And looking hot is not necesssary looking white, because "hot" embodies traits from all ethnic groups. Once the "hot" look is achieved, the flirtacious carefree attitude kicks in, completing an appealing image that is in contrast to the sullen belligerance of the vindictive authentic crowd. And, of course, with maturity comes change and with one stage completed, yesterday's hot girl can become today's cool woman, a toned-down more responsible version of her former self. That's life! BTW, there seems to be a growing trend among the high-profile blondes to experiment with dark hair. |
Eastwest
Newbie Poster
Username: Eastwest
Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:52 pm: |
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Very few women match any beauty standard?
That is true in the U.S, but having been to places like Brazil,Venezuela,and the Dominican Republic,I can honestly say some women are just better looking than other types of women. Black women can complain about White women all they want,but the funny thing is that White girls are NOT the peference of a lot of black men.
Latinas especially Brazilian women, are getting a whole lot of attention,I know a Lot of guys who have been to Brazil.
Essence magazine did a story on the large numbers of black men who go over to Brazil for sex. It's not just Brazil,now other South American countries are getting in on the action too.Both Columbia and Panama are getting a lot of sex tourists . |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3626
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:02 pm: |
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Abm,
You said: "I often get the impression that many women feel as though if they're not turning the heads of EVERY man, there's something wrong with the cosmic order of the universe or something."
And then Nfts said: "Ya know what bro ABM, I think that is the core of the issue. The haters and constant whiners are not turning heads nor getting the same attention from men the "unauthentic" women they relentlessly rail against. It's as simple as that!!!!!"
Was that really your point? And was the point you DID make--whatever it was--in regards to colorism? Because this lady isn't saying anything different from what we have been discussing on this board about colorism for years. |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1604
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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Eastwest:
"Essence magazine did a story on the large numbers of black men who go over to Brazil for sex. It's just not Brazil, now other South American countries are getting in on the action too. Both Columbia and Panama are getting a lot of sex tourists."
Moonsigns:
LMAO --like the women who are SELLING their bodies to SURVIVE should be so honored. Shyt, they just want to get out of the hole they're in and come to the land of 'milk and honey'.
Lesson to all women: Never --ever-- underestimate the power of ms. puss....her power can turn the strongest of men into suckers (no pun intended)!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Eastwest
Newbie Poster
Username: Eastwest
Post Number: 44
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:34 pm: |
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Moonsigns,not all Latin women have to sell their bodies to survive.My brazilian sister in-law came from a well off family. My brother met her in Brazil.Another guy I know absolutely DESPISES white people(that means white women too)and Never even thought of dating out side the race until he went to Brazil.He is getting married to a wealthy and beautiful,brazilian business woman. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3627
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:45 pm: |
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Abm,
Clarification, I meant to say:
"Because this lady isn't saying anything different ABOUT COLORISM from what we have been discussing on this board about colorism for years."
Anyway, I thought your remark was about beauty standards in general, that's the way I interpreted it. |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
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Tonya, such the original thinker... |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3628
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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Not sure if I'm reading you right but I'm not a part of this debate, dear.
Been there, done that, moving along...
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Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 72
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 04:32 pm: |
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^^that's the most informative statement you've made on this thread yet! See you the next time around, Tonya, you lame-ass thesbian, you. (wink)
"hear hear" (give me a break...) |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3629
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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Damn. How many fucking accounts do you have???
GET HELP!!
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
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"Another guy I know absolutely DESPISES white people(that means white women too)and Never even thought of dating out side the race until he went to Brazil.He is getting married to a wealthy and beautiful,brazilian business woman."
Well, there ya have it. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6952
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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Eastwest,
Your view that certain South American are more attractive than others is your opinion.
Nothing less. Nothing more.
And there's not some great, worldwide beauty pageant going on where all women are being compared/contrasted with each other. Even if Brazilian women were the most beautiful, that don't mean diddly with respect to whether or not Becky, Shaniqua or Maria here in the U.S. can score a date.
Tonya,
Yes. Colorism is an issue. However, I also believe A LOT of women lament not being able to catch the eye of every man. And the colorism issue adds some complexity of the broader issue of women wanting to be adored by men.
And one thing women don't appreciate about what it means to be a man is, unlike you, we've been trained and conditioned to be FLATLY rejected by you in ways you seldom ever have to consider. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 06:50 pm: |
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"And one thing women don't appreciate about what it means to be a man is, unlike you, we've been trained and conditioned to be FLATLY rejected by you in ways you seldom ever have to consider."
ABM, I'm serious when I say this, even though you and I don't agree on various issues, your quips, barbs and comments are very witty, sharp and often brilliant. The point you made here is one that no one should attempt to argue. I thought about writing something very similar but you articulated it in a manner that I would failed to. Thank you. I can't wait to see one of the haters take your comment on. We'll see.....
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3630
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:16 pm: |
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Abm,
I appreciate your maturity.
. . .
Some women do not want the attention they get from most of the men whose eyes they catch. That has been my experience; and though not all women have this experience, I have never in my life met a woman who wanted the attention of every man, like the women you described. And this is something that men do not appreciate about being a woman, btw. Also, does your theory apply to racism? Do you think that the broader issue is "women wanting to be adored by men" and that black women in general decry racism because they "lament not being able to catch the eye of every man," black white and other? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6960
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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Ntfs,
I don't recall our disagreeing about much. But I really appreciate your compliments. And I'm sure I'm at least as impressed with your manner and style of expression as you are with mine.
I mean, hell. Bruhman properly used "misandry" and "androphobia" to describe the behavior of some of our local harridans. How the hell can I NOT be impressed with THAT?
Hahahahaha!!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6961
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:37 pm: |
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Tonya: "Do you think that the broader issue is "women wanting to be adored by men" and that black women in general decry racism because they "lament not being able to catch the eye of every man," black white and other?"
Yes. I believe to some degree it's NOT just about colorism. For example, I'll BET if many of the women were HONEST about their experiences they'd be compelled to cop to having rejected some men, perhaps, MANY men even throughout their lives. Or, worse, they didn't even recognize that some guy truly like them either because A) The guy was too shy and/or didn't have enuff game to approach them or B) The women were too busy focusing on some better looking (richer, taller, more charming, etc.) to notice or even care.
I'm NOT wholly ignoring or discounting the issue of colorism. I KNOW it's a real problem. But I ALSO have heard, observed and EXPERIENCED enuff things with women to know that you all have knack for fostering and enabling the hell you whine to us about. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3631
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:44 pm: |
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But you apply it to racism to the same degree that you do to colorism. Right?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6963
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:46 pm: |
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Tonya,
I don't follow your question. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3632
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |
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You think that racism is just as much about "catching every man's eyes" (black white and other), as colorism is about that. Right? |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 76
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
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Tonya,
Ask your friendly moderator how many accounts I have.
Sweetheart, there would be no "colorism" if there weren't "racism." To answer your question, racism ALWAYS takes precedence. You would have figured that out if you weren't so self-centered... narcissistic... which leads to another point...
Admittedly, women, in general, have serious issues when it comes to seeking any validation, from males or females. If she is in a crowd, the most severe case, ie TONYA, will overcompensate (ie using bold print, unnecessary caps and lame-ass pretentious phrases like "hear, hear" on a message board) The color issue does complicates things. Alpha males are probably the only creatures who do not suffer from such an affliction. Metro-sexual and homosexual men often exaggerate this condition as well.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6964
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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Tonya,
Well. I'm not sure if they are wholly analogous. But I guess I will say to a large degree our clamour about racism stems from our being rejected by Whites on levels and to a degree that we probably should NOT be as concerned about.
Take what happen to Oprah a year or so ago at in the Parisian department store (I forget its name.). Was that really a racist issue? Maybe. Maybe not.
I mean, it's one thing to be denied access to the facilities or accomodations of a place or agency that PUBLICLY funded. But one could argue that if a PRIVATE business refuses to accomodate Black foks maybe we should just say fuhk'em and shop some place else. Yet we want and feel we deserve to be accepted by Whites. ESPECIALLY when we've garnered the wealth, fame and esteem of an Oprah Winfrey.
I know this issue is greatly complicated because the vastly disproportate power, money and influence Whites have. If employers, hotels, car dealers, etc. were allowed to apply color-coded restrictions, Blacks would have very difficult lives.
Well. Either that...OR figure out ways to employ and house each other and - *blink* - build & sell our own dayam CARS. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3633
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:26 pm: |
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Abm,
I take that as a "yes." And that is interesting because I partly agree with you. I think that race discrepancies between men of all races is about each race of men wanting some form of love and adulation from all the women of all races. That’s why sexism and racism are so closely related…two sides of the same coin, actually.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6966
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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Tonya,
Have you ever rejected or ignored what appeared to be decent guy simply because he did not appeal to you in someway (e.g., too short, fat, crocked teeth, talked funny, blinked too much, etc.)? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6111
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:57 pm: |
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In respond to this comment "...And one thing women don't appreciate about what it means to be a man is, unlike you, we've been trained and conditioned to be FLATLY rejected by you in ways you seldom ever have to consider."
NTFS says: "Thank you. I can't wait to see one of the haters take your comment on. We'll see....."
Cynique says: I don't necesssary consider myself a hater but in reponse to the implication that women are oblivious and insensitive, I would contend that the average female is well aware of how fragile the male ego is and how hard it is for men to accept rejection. You 2 are obviously unaware of how many times women hold their tongue or put up with a man because they don't want to hurt his feelings. No one sex has a monopoly on rejection. How do you think the term "wall flower" originated. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 3635
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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too short: yes. I’m a bit tall for a female: 5’ 6".
too fat: no, I kinda like stocky men, especially the ones that look like teddy bears.
crocked teeth: I think it adds character.
talked funny: I used to date a country hustler!
blinked too much: I don’t recall ever meeting a guy like that; but if I do and he seems like a nice person, why not? |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 603
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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moonsigns, HOW badly do you want to be black?
don't you just LOVE being amongst "black people"?
it kills me whenever i see a white woman who wants to be associated with our people.
but its not a surprise seeing what type of "people" you come from.
hey everyone, why is a white female concerned with the issues that effect black people in america?
oh yeah, i forgot. she screwed a negro, and had some BLACK CHILDREN. |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 03:12 am: |
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Hold up... Moonsigns is white? |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 918
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 03:20 am: |
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No Lil_ze she has Bi-racial children. They are by no means BLACK!! Nothing Black & Beautiful can come out of that wretched womb, or any WW for that matter. |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1607
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 07:58 am: |
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Serenasailor,
You're right, my children are Biracial. And they most definitely embrace their Biracial identity! However, they, by no means, are offended when people have, and do, consider them black and identify them as black.
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Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1608
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 08:02 am: |
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Lil_ze,
As I can see, you're still not over me!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1469
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
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(Now we can see each others' wombs on-line? I must get a new monitor. LOL) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6116
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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Gee, Moonsigns. Such restraint. I wanna be just like you when I grow up. You know me, by the time my response to someone who bad mouths me is finished, the thread has turned out to be a marathon of exchanged insults, with pictures sometimes included. Guess what my new year's resolution is going to be?? LOL |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:55 pm: |
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Cynique,
You better get your digs in --the New Year is just around the corner!!!! LMAO!
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Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 437
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:24 pm: |
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"Have y'all ever heard of a Black person trying to make themselves look darker?"
i know one like that also but shes in the minority.
" When white women tan, they are trying to get bronze, not black."
but alot of black women are bronze.
bronze is actually darker than women with yellow skin like beyonce. Bronze is almost medium brown. Either way all of that is irrelevant because bronze certainly isnt the the skin tone you see on white women (not even italians) and that's all i was getting at. thats why i said the beauty standard for them is darker while the standard for black women is lighter.
and i never said they were trying to get the same color as dark skinned black women...but there is a certain facination with mixed race people these days....and that was more along the lines i was talking about. I know of quite a few white women who go crazy over mixed race kids....in fact there are whole groups started BY white women who want to have a mixed raced baby....their explanation is usually because they think mixed children are the most beautiful children.
i guess my point is there are certain non-white features that white people take to (like our lips and those of us with bronze skin and long legs) and others that they seem to dispize (like our hair texture)...the same can be said about black people....ive never seen a black girl going around wanting a small butt...but i have seen black girls liking blonde hair and light eyes.
actually josephine baker started the whole tanning craze and then coco shanel saw her and liked the way her skin looked in a white dress...then she came back with a tan...thats how tanning all got started. |
Misty
Regular Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 438
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:42 pm: |
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my only point was if white was truely so much more attractive than black (and other people of color)....then why are white people tanning?
thats why i say that black peole should have gotten the hint LONG AGO that the beauty wasn't isnt real, set in stone or God-given...but you actually have alot of blacks who think the white beauty standard is natural. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1323
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 09:04 pm: |
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"my only point was if white was truely so much more attractive than black (and other people of color)....then why are white people tanning?"
Means nothing. Getting a tan has nothing to do with desiring to be a black person. That's like say any black woman who perms her hair, is consciously trying to be a white or Asian or a Latino woman (all have straight hair -as a group). Sorry my dear, try again....
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