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Troy
Regular Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 448
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 10:35 pm: | 
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I've worked in "Corporate America" for almost a quarter of a century. All big name, top flight companies including defense contractors, financial service companies, and more.
One thing that has been consitently true for all of these companies is that American born Black men are virtually absent -- at all levels but most strikingly at very senior ones.
Another thing I've noticed is that the results of companies that devote the most amount of time and lipservice to highlight their efforts in highering more Blacks do not exhibit better results than those who seem to do a lot less.
Here is the thing: After 20+ years working in enviroments where Black men are few, it seems things are getting worse. Again, I'm not speaking about Black women or my Carribean or African Brothers -- I'm talking about your regular, home grown, Brother.
See today, when "diversity" is spoken about the conversation includes gays, women of all colors, the handicapped, and people from other countries. It seems Black American men have gotten lost in the mix.
I live in a community (Harlem) where few of the Black men born here can afford to rent a decent apartment -- purchasing property is almost out of the question. This community is in a city, like many others, where a good educations is very expensive. A good K - 12 education via the public alternative is a virtually impossible for a Black manchild. This was not always the case and things continue to get worse.
As a result, there are not very many Black men queued up to assume roles in Corporate America. Now the competition for these positions is global.
The Corporate America situation is just one more indicator that we are in a crisis situation, and it is really very sad to watch unfold...
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6796
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 08:05 am: |
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Troy,
I think that you and have been in the business/corporate arenas for around the same time. And I have witnessed what you describe.
You often Black women complain about bearing the double-negative of being both Black and female. But what I see is that Black women appear to have MORE of an ADVANTAGE than they do a disadvantage. And this beginning to play out in pay.
USA Today recently published the average salaries of college graduates. The average White male college grad earns $67K/year and average White female college grad earns $38K/year ($29K difference). However, the average Black male college grad earns $44K and average Black female college grad earns $41K ($3K difference). (Interestingly, the Black female college grads earn MORE than White female college grads.)
Diversity is in PRACTICE becoming to mean (ironically) "everybody but White males...and BLACK males". |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1420
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
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I wouldn't take the numbers to mean that Black women are not catching hell in corporate America. Not at all.
And it would be interesting to see how many of the "average White female" grads are lower income by choice--e.g., they have spouses who are higher wage earners and they decide to work fewer hours to raise the kids. (I see a lot of that in my own circles.) The average Black female grad, on the other hand, is probably more likely to be doing for herself, by herself.
Having said that, more needs to be done to get--and keep--more Black American males in the pipeline (HS, undergrad, internships, grad school...) |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2990
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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People want to ignore or deny the effects of race until they see them--
Let me see if I can explain it. These spots in Corporate America are plum spots. These spots are reserved for the rulers who are mostly white. They want these spots to go to their sons and daughters, not to no Negroes they don't even know or like.
We ain't gonna do anything about it--unlike the goal of the Civil Rights era which was to obtain basic civil rights for all obtaining these plum spots will only benefit the minority of upper class negroes--don't expect nobody else to get excited about some Negroes only making 44k when they are working two jobs to make ends meet.
Let me give you a tip--lots of these giant corporations started out in a pushcart or somebody's barn--a hundred years ago. One bad thing about black people seeing the Trumps and the Perots and the Rothschilds and Rockefellers is that they want to start out at that level. Gotta crawl before you walk.
Want Black folks in corporations? Start them now--maybe your grandchildren will have something.
Here in this town, the Inernational Corporate giant here, Anheuser Busch, started out over a hundred years ago--Anheuser brewed the beer in a one room brewery, Busch drove the beer wagon. But Germans liked German beer and bought it from Germans. They didn't make their money in the oil business or in trying to work for Non Germans.
Of course Negroes can't stand each other, so there is lots of work to be done-- |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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As long as corporate America = white America - Black America ain't gonna get squat. As CH says, we must make our own corporations. We must stop looking to the white man to throw us some crumbs. Each and every one of us CAN make a difference. If we would all do our part, we won't need to be whining about how the white man has us under his thumb, with his foot on our throats, while ramming us in the behind instead of letting us break thru HIS glass ceiling. We need to do our own thing! Even if it's just a start-up.
We need a REVOLUTION!!! More BLACK colleges. Everybody do SOMETHING!!!  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5799
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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How ironic that one of the most successful black men in America is Jay-Z. He is CEO of his own record company and clothing line and is part-owner of an NBA team. How did he earn his fortune? By being a rapper with a "good flow". But to point to him as a role model is to tell black youngsters that you don't need degrees or expertise. All you have to do is rent studio space and come up with a technique that will find favor with a huge, ready-made audience of rap fans - or hone your basketball skills on the playground court. Hope lies in convincing kids that the smooth-talking lawyers for these hard-talkin artists make big bucks too, as do the knee-surgeons for the jocks. As for females - tsk-tsk. They will just have to be convinced that it's better to be Oprah than a booty-shakin back-up dancer. Unfortunately, all of the good schools in the world |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6799
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
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Yvettep: "And it would be interesting to see how many of the "average White female" grads are lower income by choice--e.g., they have spouses who are higher wage earners and they decide to work fewer hours to raise the kids. (I see a lot of that in my own circles.) The average Black female grad, on the other hand, is probably more likely to be doing for herself, by herself."
Can you conceive of a scenario (that does NOT include the NBA or NFL players or making hip-hop music) where the average Black man earns MORE than the average White man? |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2993
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 01:49 pm: |
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I understand people getting frustrated but not much.
Black people, unlike many other immigrants who came to this country RICH (it was SIR Walter Raleigh, remember? Forget all this came in rags sh*t. Others of them came with contacts back in Europe that had money)
Black people came with nothing. They could HAVE nothing for years and years (if you had a trade and made money at it, you had to kickback to massa--read Frederick Douglass). You couldn't own land. You had no rights that a white man was bound to respect.
When there were blacks that started making it, like in Tulsa, Oklahoma they killed them and took it.
Until 40 years ago you didn't have the right in many parts of this country to sit on the same TOILET as a white man.
You couldn't even make it in crime because to make it in organized crime you need to have corrupt officials who would take your money and they wouldn't take a black man's money.
There is nobody in this country who has done what we have done. We ought to be grateful with what we got.
The white man won't let us work in his corporations--he did not make them so no Negro can strut around in them, screwing his daughter and dressing better than him.
Couple of stories. A while back my sister was working for a black owned auto dealership. The dealership was in a mostly white area of town. There were white sales people. A white woman came in to buy a car, looked around, saw the blacks, asked a white sales person if a black owned the place.
He told her no.
"good," she said. "I don't believe in making THEM rich."
He was forced to move his dealership soon after.
I guess the word got out.
Another story. Brother I know got a job in one of the top law firms in town. They told him they loved him. He was on the partner track. He started dressing good. Bought a mercedes. He could well afford it.
The other partners started in on him. "I ain't driving no Mercedes." They came to him soon after and told him he didn't have a future there, and offered to help him get something in government. It screwed with his mind. He's sadder but wiser today.
A lots of us meet nice white folks. And there are nice white folks. Good white folks. They don't have any power. We want to believe that maybe it would be better if only we weren't so country or criminal or hip hop or whatever.
This ain't got nothing to do with it. Think if the shoe was on the other foot. You had spent all your life building something up. Some young punk who looked like Brad Pitt thought he should waltz in and take over.
Get your own sh*t. Or bend over and grease up.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6802
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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Chris,
I pretty much agree with your entire last post. Though I'd add that getting your own shyt is the EASY part. KEEPING and GROWING it (especially amongst all these self-hating, self-sabotaging kneegrows) is the really HARD part. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1425
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
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ABM, I am not sure what you are getting at with your post so I will just clarify mine: I believe it is possible that *if* more college educated white women could not/would not depend on the income of their mates (which, mostly, will be those "average" White college educated men), they would take less time off/work full time/work higher income and demand jobs. ANd you would see their incomes much higher than the average Black female grads.
In other words, that stat, I suspect, is artificially inflated for Black females. I do not believe for one minute that Black women are getting more opportunities than White women. Especially when you look at who gained more as a result of affirmative action programs, where in many cases White female gains outpace any other race-gender group. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6803
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 02:38 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I don't know why Black female college grads earn more than White female college grads, though I suppose they do, at least in large part, for the reasons you've alluded to.
The point I was attempting to make is that if PAY is a true indicator of how well or poorly one is doing Black men do NOT enjoy the sex-gender successes and advantages that White men do. And the disparities in pay and opportunities are much GREATER between White and Black men than they are between White and Black women.
We are basically earning the SAME as Black (and White) women. Now. Perhaps there should be no disparity. But in this largely patriarchal country and society, where value in imputed within a man's earning compacity, this leads to confusion about the role and place of Black men within marriages and families. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1426
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 03:22 pm: |
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OK, I understand what you are saying now.
And I agree with what you are saying about the links between earning power, traditional gender roles, self-perceptions in the context of marriage and family, and race.
This has been one (of many!) reasons behind some Black women's discomfort within (White) feminist circles--the very different issues around gender-race-employment-family for Black women and men compared to White women and men.
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Troy
Regular Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 450
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
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The situation is far deeper than Corporate America (CA). The CA situation is just an indicator.
During the civil rigths era we fought for equal treatment under the law. There were qualified folks being systematically excluded from all facets of life, housing, education and yes CA.
Now we are essentially at a point where even if I were to say;
"Hey you white folks ain't hiring enough Black men."
They could say (and do say);
"Well, unless we lower our standards, we can't find any qualified applicants "
In many cases they would be right.
Nobody (except perhaps the government) is going to give you something for nothing. So I have no illusions that those in charge are going to simply hand over anything.
Of course if you want to create wealth, jobs, institutions, you will not do this working in CA (in most cases) the best opportunity in this country for wealth is through running your own business.
But do you think running your own business is easy? Working for CA is far easier than launching and running a profitiable business -- especially during the beginning phases.
Ignoring the "self-hating, self-sabotaging kneegrows" ABM reffered to for a moment. I find most Black businesses with a quality product are supported by the Black community. We simply do not start enough business. I'm afraid Black men, as a group, are increasinlgly less likely/able to do this nowadays.
Sure, Mzuri we may need a revolution; but my concern is what would we do after it is all over?
Maybe we need a revolution in motivation, ambition and drive....
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2157
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:54 pm: |
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That's exactly the type of revolution that is required - a getupoffayourass movement! What would we do after the revolution? That's putting the cart before the horse 
I'm a member of a couple of chambers of commerce, the city-wide one and a minority one, and so I have the opportunity to meet countless people who are in business and those aspiring to start a business. I've started talking to folks regarding starting a business (which can seem so overwhelming) and encouraging them to think of it as creating their own job. Take something that they can do, market, make and/or sell, and turn that into a job. I believe that if more people perceived it in this way, it wouldn't seem so daunting and more people would give it a try.
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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1427
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Mzuri, others: Are you familiar with the Junior Achievement program? Are there many Black youth involved? From the little I know of it, that has always sounded like a wonderful way for young people to become motivated early on about the idea of business ownership.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5804
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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The end of what I posted earlier was accidentaly deleted by me but, completed, it would've read: "all of the good schools in the world won't bring about change if youngsters aren't motivated." A kid has to find something to be excited by, something that will spike his curiosity and ignite his interest, and spur him to do whatever it requires to bring his ambition into fruition. A tall order. Especially for a generation hooked on video games and the virtual reality version of accomplishing something.
You know, Yvette, Junior Achievement has been around a long time introducing school children of all races to the world of business and commerce. Participants in this program become little entrepreneurs and are taught how to set up their own little mock businesses, learning to produce, market and sell a product they have decided upon. They have a big fair in Chicago every year where prizes are awarded for the best ideas. This is certainly something that kids should be encouraged to check out. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2997
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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Troy:
You have to be kidding. You aren't dealing in corporate America because if you were you'd be well aware of all the dead weight that gets carried up at the upper levels because they know the right people or are so and so's son, or in the right frat.
Look at George W. Bush.
The big problem--it isn't as bad as when I was younger but it is bad especially among the more educated and well off blacks--is the amount of self loathing and deprecation that is rampant. Many black folks hate their own personal black face--it would be very hard to do it in a society like this where the ideal is blond, blue eyed and white (look at how this affects the Mediterranean type races, the Jews, etc).
Let me ask you a question. You seem motivated. Educated. Together. You seem like you have the situation all sized up.
Why ain't YOU rich? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2159
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 01:22 pm: |
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I worry when you drop off in mid-sentence like that.
Yvette - JA membership should be reflective of their local communities. An associate of mine volunteers his time to that program, I'm going to ask him about it next time we speak. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3000
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 02:00 pm: |
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Junior achievement may be okay but nothing beats having a kid working in a business.
When I was growing up there was all these confectionaries owned by Jews in the neighborhood--the hood was all black by the way--They'd have their kids working behind the counter, totalling up your bills, making change.
These kids were learning about running a business. Some years later I met one of those kids running a huge restaurant across from the county courthouse that seated hundreds of people.
And so it goes.
Start a business and get your kid involved even it its selling cakes out of your kitchen--I saw a tv program about a Jewish lady who started out baking kosher cakes for the Jewish community in her kitchen, wound up managing three stores with a gross in the tens of thousands per week-- |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
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All that leads us to the following:
Back in the 60's when I was talking revolution, my father used to tell me that until the Black people got their family life together it was useless.
Well they haven't and you see whazzup.
Bush, Kennedy, Rockefeller, DuPont--we got this idea of the lone gunslinger but great things are accomplished by great FAMILIES--
Negroes don't know nothing about family. In my neighborhood now there is a Chinese restaurant. Those Chinese work in that mother from dawn to dush--old ones young ones, etc. There are some of them who have other jobs or businesses that come in and put in a few hours.
Those that aren't married all stay in the same house and pool their resources and make it. They don't buy shit but cars--no fake hair, no fake nails, no jewelry, none of that sh*t.
Negroes hate each other. The first thing Negroes try to do is throw their kids to the dogs. Well, when you get sick you are going to need them--but whitey ain't taught you family--your family that is. You take care of HIS kids and house. You love sleeping in a little room in the back
There ain't no easy answer to this problem--though you will probably have individuals that make it there will be none of these institutions until long after we are dead-- |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1429
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
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I looked up JA's stats by ethnicity: http://www.ja.org/about/about_who_stats.shtml
They actually are doing very well in terms of raw percentages. I bet there is more that can be done to reach "non-traditional" participants who, for example, may be at risk for school failure and other problem outcomes. |
Troy
Regular Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 452
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 09:45 pm: |
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Chris, "rich" is a relative term. Define it for me and I'll let you know if I am.
Are you rich? If not, why not? If you are how did you achieve this feat?
Actually, I think if I had a dad, like yours, who could tell me what took me many years to learn, I believe I would probably be better off today. Your Dad was on point about family. I took me a LOT of years to realize the importance of family.
Besides I'm really not talking about being "rich" -- at least not from a monetary stand point. I'm talking about a class of people, Black men, who are in dire straigts; and it seems like the rest of the population does not know or does not care (to paraphase Ice Cube from Boyz in the Hood).
We are talking about a group of people who will, if the current, trend continues, struggle at obtaining or keeping ANY job. Corp. Amer. is already lost. The are few Black men in the hard sciences, or even teachers, firemen, etc.
If we looked closer I bet we would find many of the employed Black men are in jobs that they simply hate... This is not good.
Creating our own jobs may be our only recourse, but again this is harder, not easier than a 9 to 5.
One however is usually willing to work harder for themselves -- especially if they like what they are doing.
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Speaking of starting your own business there a Brother known as the "Passion Profit" (actually lived a few houses from me until he moved to Asia). His deal was to teach people to earn a living doing what they truly enjoy: http://authors.aalbc.com/walt.htm.
I think if you can manage that feat, you can become truly sucessful and perhaps rich.
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 598
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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this has to be the best thread of the month ...next to me bitching about affirmative action in michigan. troy my friend, you need to voice your opinions more often. |
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