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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2145
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 07:21 pm: | 
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Rep. Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft
By JOHN HEILPRIN
The Associated Press
Sunday, November 19, 2006; 4:11 PM
WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.
Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars and to bolster U.S. troop levels insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.
"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.
Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.
In 2003, he proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.
Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.
"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.
Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.
"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.
He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.
Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."
Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.
Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."
Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.
The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System trains, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 _ now about 16 million _ from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.
Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.
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On the Net:
Selective Service System: http://www.sss.gov |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 185
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 08:27 pm: |
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I passionately disagree with the return of the draft. I sincerely hope it isn't brought back. I feel that joining the Armed Forces should always be something that someone WANTS to do; with the full knowledge that they may be called upon at anytime during their enlistment to defend their country and possibly lose their lives in the process.
Any career choice that involves facing death, such as the Armed Forces, firefighters, and police officers, in my view, should always be on a voluntary basis.
Yeah, maybe Dubya and his homies would have thought twice about waging war on Iraq had they considered for a split second that one/some of their loved ones would have to go fight and possibly die in the war, but, should the draft return, my compassion would lie with the average American family whose sons may be FORCED to go die in a war that they NEVER signed up for in the first place. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:49 am: |
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Mzuri --
It'll never happen. Charlie Rangel's got mental problems, the best of which are starting to come to the surface. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6795
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 07:53 am: |
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I THINK the point that Rangel's attempting to make is if there were a draft, one that might result in the scions of the nation's wealthy and powerful (e.g., Jenna and Barbara Bush) getting blow to smithereens in Iraq, maybe we'd ALL be much LESS supportive of war. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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Part of me is for it. But only if diverse service options are available (e.g., domestic airport security, "back-filling" in Europe for deployed troops, community service) and college money is attached.
I am at least willing to hear out the discussions. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Unless you are a commissioned officer or already degreed/trained in a particular area (registered nurse, etc.) you aren't given many options as to how you will be assigned in the military. You are tested and placed where you would do best and where the military has a need - they don't cater to individual wishes. And you don't get a say as to whether you are deployed overseas. It's not as if anyone gets to choose where they will be stationed (unless you're in the upper echelons or have connections with someone who issues the assignments). You get orders and you proceed as directed.
Domestic airport/subway security is typically handled by National Guardsmen. Community service in the military? Are you referring to military personnel volunteering of their own time to work with BigBrothers/Sisters and such? Or when the military organizes Operation Santa? Those would be additional duties - never anyone's primary occupation unless something's changed that I'm unaware of.
Changing from an all volunteer system to a mandatory draft will give the citizens even less choices. And we must keep in mind that this time around, they will likely include females since it would be discriminatory to have a male only draft. Women have equality in all other areas now, they should also be included in the draft.
If anyone believes that the draft will include the affluent, you'd better think again. The rich weren't drafted before and they won't be drafted now. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2989
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
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Charlie Rangel is ready for D-Pens. They ain't doing it. This and his Mississippi comment prove he is ready for the glue factory.
First of all, Mzuri is right--for once. This idiot does not remember Vietnam--all he would have to do is look at the current leadership to see that the affluent will not be drafted.
Obviously the elections have gone to his head--he doesn't need a committee chairmanship--in fact he doesn't need to be in Congress at all.
Now that the Republicans are out--throw out the Democrats.
If they ever need a draft you can bet they will have one. But they don't-- |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2148
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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CH - I'm always right. You're just too stubborn to admit it  |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1422
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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I know all about what you mentioned, Mzury (military brat here--plus husband: former Army). What I was talking about is different models of "peace time" military service that would include other duties than are available now.
I think we should be discussing it. The rich will always be able to get out of service, no matter what. What I am waiting to hear is how this might (might) be used to offer kids more training and educational opportunities.
Like I said, I'm willing to listen to what he and others have to say. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:06 pm: |
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Heee-eeyy! I'm an Army brat too. Plus worked for Dept of Army for 20+ years. And I'm an AirForce mom. As I'm sure you know, the military is SLOOOW to change. My thinking is if they are going to offer more educational opportunities they wouldn't need a draft - and they sure aren't going to reward people if there is a draft. Sign-up/re-up bonuses will surely be reduced. If a draft is implemented - we're all screwed.  |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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Mzuri: hooah. (LOL) |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2152
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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I love my boardie friends |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5800
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 02:06 pm: |
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Once WWII started in 1941, this country reinstated the draft, and millions of men were called up to go fight for their country. After the war, the G.I. Bill enabled returning vets to go to college at government expense, to automatically obtain mortgage loans for houses, and entitled them to free medical care at VA hospitals. Same was true for the Korean vets. During the Vietnam war, the draft dodgers emerged in droves as engaging in jungle warfare against the Viet Cong guerilla fighters offered no prospects of victory. Decades later, the New Army had everybody thinking the next war would be all computerized and remotely-controlled. How quickly they forgot how hard it is to combat fanatical terrorists. The Draft would take a lot of idle young men off the streets and shape them up a little - before turning them into "cannon fodder". And I agree that this is a debatable issue.
As for Charles Rangel, I've been viewing him with a jaundiced eye ever since his impassioned defense of Bush against the criticism aimed at him by the Iranian president during his appearance at the UN. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2998
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 01:25 pm: |
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During the Vietnam war, the draft dodgers emerged in droves as engaging in jungle warfare against the Viet Cong guerilla fighters offered no prospects of victory.
I would respectfully disagree.
People like Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Rush Limbaugh, and your other chickenhawks did not dodge the draft for that reason, as there was a draft long before the war heated up--in fact there was a draft all during peacetime in the 5t-0's and early 60's after Korea and before Vietnam. Several of my uncles were called up and spent time fighting in bars in Germany, Japan, Alaska, etc.
The draft dodgers all had something better to do, get an education, get a job, make money. That is what contributed to it.
Even when it heated up, most of those who split to Canada and all were your more well off--your blue collars and poor went since life in the Army was in many cases better than it was at home--until they were killed wounded or driven crazy. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5805
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 02:42 pm: |
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I didn't mean that there was a connection between the futility of the Vietnam war and the draft dodging, although what I wrote obviously came out that way. I meant that draft dodging and the futility of the war were simutaneouly going on. It is true that guys were getting deferrments because risking their lives in a war was somethng they preferred to avoid. |
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