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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 12:44 am: | 
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Students at Calif. College ban Pledge of Allegiance
By Dan Whitcomb
Thu Nov 9, 8:42 PM ET
Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.
The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.
"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.
"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.
The move was lead by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.
The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.
"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Bell, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."
Bell said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.
Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.
"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 12:53 am: |
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What is the world coming to!? College students too dumb to know that WE are the government. It's not some distant entity. By pledging allegiance to the flag you're pledging allegiance to your own self. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6792
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 06:31 am: |
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I served on collegiate student councils (class treasury one year, class president another). We didn’t recite The Pledge of Allegiance as prelude to our meetings.
I wouldn't have had a problem with reciting The Pledge. But I don't think it should be requirement either.
Because I've read the entire US Constitution MANY times. And I don't recall it including the recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance as a requirement of American citizenship or residency.
PS: But I do recall reading that "GOD" was added to The Pledge as recently as the 1950's, 'coincidently' during the McCarthy Red Scare Era. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5755
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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The flag American citizens pledge allegiance to is the symbol of what gives them the freedom to not pledge allegiance to it. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2969
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 02:29 pm: |
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Mzuri:
These students are a lot smarter than you. Rich white men set this up and they are still running it. Apparently you don't know it--or you are afraid to admit it.
The Complex is the government. The rest of us are along for the ride--that is we vote on the candidates they choose for us and do what we're told. Their genius is in making us think that we are in control--
The situation is a lot like it was in Elizabethan England--the ruling classes generally only take our wishes into consideration when we get fed up and can't take any more. Other than that they do what they want without even considering what we want--
What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA--
That said--
Those students are dumb. They have started something over something that is merely symbolic. They ought to use the flag and the pledge as a cover--in fact hold that THEY are the REAL Americans and that THEY uphold the real America and display the flag, the constitution and say the pledge as much as possible.
Works fine for the Klan, Rush Limbaugh, The Nazis, the Republicans, etc. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2115
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 04:12 pm: |
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Whatever CH. When Tim McVeigh bombed the OKC federal building, he did not kill the government, he killed ordinary citizens like you and me. WE ARE THE GOVT!!! |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1133
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 04:50 am: |
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I like the responses to the post. Everyone has told some form of the truth. Personally, I found the banning to be offensive. But I respect their right to dissent. Not making the pledge of allegiance a requirement does not really bother me but I do have some concerns about the undercurrent of misguided political nativity and ignorance of the students.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2121
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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Of course they have the right to dissent. But if they don't LOVE this country, then they should get the fuck out!!! It's probably some got damn Mexicans that's behind this BS!!! And if so, then they need to take they broke asses back to Mejico and salute that raggedy ass flag. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 04:13 pm: |
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"Of course they have the right to dissent. But if they don't LOVE this country, then they should get the fuck out!!! It's probably some got damn Mexicans that's behind this BS!!! And if so, then they need to take they broke asses back to Mejico and salute that raggedy ass flag."
Wow! Hard core! But I like it! I feel the same way. As I stated before, people have the right not say the pledge or allegiance. But again, as I stated before, I have serious questions about the students motivations and political thinking. But you are probably right, there is a good chance they are Mexicans. There are some very nationalistic Mexicans and they sincerely believe that parading the American flag or making the pledge of allegiance mandatory is disrespectful to them and racist. The logic is insane, but that is how they feel.
Case in point –if you recall earlier this year, the Mexicans made a national day of protest against pending congressional changes in our immigration laws. At a high school, the Mexican students wore pro Mexican t-shirts and carried Mexican flags and held rallies in Spanish. Well, the next day, a few American students at the same high school, wore t-shirts with the American flag on it. They were promptly told to take the t-shirts off. When they refused, they were dismissed from school and sent home! The school defended their policy by stating it was a safety issue for the American students since there would be violence against them by the Latino students for wearing the American flag. The Mexican students saw the American flag as a racist symbolic display and claimed the American students were provoking a confrontation. So they were not going to tolerate it. True story. Go figure….
In fact, just yesterday I dropped a friend off in a highly populated residential area. As I was getting in my car, three young Mexicans came walking down the street carrying three large Mexican flags. I have no idea where they were going or where they came from. But I do know that if I got in my car and drove across the border to Mexico, which is less than twenty five minutes away, parked my car and walked around with an American flag as they did, trust me on this....I WOULD NOT HAVE DROVE BACK ACROSS THE BORDER ON MY OWN!
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 593
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
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no, no, no after witnessing EQUALITY at it's finest with the ban of affirmative action in michigan, i lean towards what jason bell had to say. (jason bell just doesn't sound hispanic to me, but i could be wrong) anyways my eyes have been pried wide open, what's fair is fair. things i used to be opposed to i'm not anymore, so if gays want to get married ...let them. churches should be hit up with taxes just like every other business, and if athiest don't believe that god should be mentioned in the allegence, well take it out, not everyone believes in that ... this equality. i am now a firm believer in it, and i am not mexican. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5768
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 05:11 pm: |
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A flag, of course, is a symbol. That's why the confedrate flag is so revered by red necks and genteel southerners. Fly a flag with a swatzticka on it, and you're in trouble. Jehovah's Witnesses apparently don't pledge allegiance to anything but God. When you burn the flag this is considered a form of protest. The American flag represents different things to different people. Nobody asked, but - I don't love America; I just prefer it. If I pledge allegiance to the flag, I'm just giving lip service. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2123
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 05:28 pm: |
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Well I love it because the streets are paved with GOLD!!! You know, I went to jury duty about five years ago and when we first entered the jury hall (it was about 2,000 ppl) the intake judge gave his little lecture and something he said just stuck. He said that while the U.S. isn't perfect, there wasn't nobody building no tire rafts to get up outta here  |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1142
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:57 pm: |
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"He said that while the U.S. isn't perfect, there wasn't nobody building no tire rafts to get up outta here."
On the money! While we are not perfect as the judge says because of racism, class issues, corporation and political graft and corruption, etc..., I have yet to see masses of people running away or denouncing their American citizenship. More people are trying to come here than leave. Think not? Just ask the Vietnamese, Cubans, Mexicans, Russians, Indians and Pakistani’s, Chinese, Africans, et al....
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5770
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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These are the reasons that I "prefer" America over other countries. But, for some reason, a love for America does not stir in my heart. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 594
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:54 am: |
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the debate isn't over loving the country or leaving it. hell i like pixar films but the doesn't mean that i have to like the cars movie they just made. the debate was over using god in the alegiance, you guys spun everything like a yo-yo. so you may as well talk about loving taco bell burritos and people in ethiopea wishing they had one with your last statements. the truth of the matter is that if america is to be truly as equal and free as everyone claims they want it to be then, no ones religious biases should be forced on another person. |
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