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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1313
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 03:07 pm: | 
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I'm interested in any of your opinions--especially, but not limited to parents.
The other day I was driving my daughters home from school when they began reciting one of those parody versions of the Pledge of Allegiance. I do not remember the specific words (nor are they relevant, probably)--It was just one of those things kids learn at camp or their new first grade, where kids purposefully substitute nonsense and humorous phrases.
I wrestled with myself for many moments. My politics tend toward the liberal and/or libertarian on many issues--and I definitely support those whose convictions lead them to decline reciting the pledge. I also generally support people's rights to do symbolic things like burn flags and effigies (spl?)
But I felt this was something different. And, although I also generally support language play, creativity, and humor, I finally decided to interrupt my daughters to make this point.
I said to them something along the lines of this, "I know you learned that funny pledge at school, and that's fine--it is very funny. But I want to make sure you know that when you are supposed to be saying that during your assemblies and other places, I want you to say the real words. It is very important if you choose to say the Pledge that you take the words seriously, because when you say them it is like you are making a promise to make sure to make those words true for everybody, to make sure everybody in this country really does have freedom and fairness."
I made the point that it was especially important for us Black people to make this promise because in the past things have been so unfair for us. Then, my daughters brought up the different things they knew about slavery, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, etc. Then all three of us said the Pledge together using the correct words.
Really I just thought of that response to them on the spot. They really seemed to connect with it and understand what I was trying t say. I remember at one time in my teen years when I was feeling particularly radicalized would just stand but refuse to say the Pledge, put my hand over my heart, etc. But since then I have really become more drawn to a stance more like what I have told my daughters.
I particularly have been attracted to this kind of "responsibility" stance--as opposed to a more "protest" one--since spending time with my husband when he was active duty Army, and working on the Army base overseas.
What do you all think? If you are raising/have raised children, did you ever address this issue?
I know this is mainly just symbolic. In fact, that is one of the things I am also thinking a lot about: Now that they are older, I would really like to put some social justice things in action with my daughters. Anyone have any experiences with that? What kinds of outreach, activities, etc have you done with young children? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5156
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 03:41 pm: |
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Well, I'm sure you probably know that the pledge did not originally contain the words "under god" in it. After a little controversy this phrase was added during the early 1950s with the sanction of Congress. Yes, it's often expedient to be politically correct, but it should come as no surprise that I am a little cynical about the way America always tries to co-op God. I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1316
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:00 pm: |
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LOL-Yeah, Cynique, I didn't even broach that particular topic. Frankly I was a little surprised that this particular school uses that version... |
Cynique_
Newbie Poster
Username: Cynique_
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:08 pm: |
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I'd like to also add "Yvette" not sure if its really you or Kola, that the pledge also originated as a pseudo-science which expediate the unison of two reflections: light and dark. The light travels from the outer perimeter of a crater onto the grass roots of the Sahara dessert where a man by the name of William Fetchkey discovered it and alas the Pledge was born. bzz bzz |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5158
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:26 pm: |
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Oh cut it out, Kola. All people have to do is check the number of posts to know that someone else is masquerading as the real "Cynique" who is a platinum member with 5156 posts. You are notorious for under-estimating people's intelligence. |
Cynique_
Newbie Poster
Username: Cynique_
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:34 pm: |
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Woooooooo I'm schizoing a bit. I can't differ between "me" and "Kola-nut". For am I here or there? And why do I on my own accord continue to converse with an unbalanced psycho over several years course. Does one be crazy for talking to a crazy? zzzzzzzzzzz My Xanax is wearing off. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5163
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
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This is really interesting. We are seeing a mental breakdown down right before our eyes. You can't fake this kind of stuff. Carry on Kola. the more you masquerade as Cynique, the more demented you prove yourself to be. I'll just chill out and let you degenerate into complete madness. ROTFLOL |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 733
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 06:20 pm: |
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"This is really interesting. We are seeing a mental breakdown down right before our eyes. You can't fake this kind of stuff. Carry on Kola. the more you masquerade as Cynique, the more demented you prove yourself to be. I'll just chill out and let you degenerate into complete madness. ROTFLOL"
God, this is so true. I guess I'm next.... |
Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 655
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 06:24 pm: |
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So Ntfs you are saying that "Kola Boof" is posting here and that she's the one responsible for all this?
Can I hold you to that?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5172
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 06:33 pm: |
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This whole crock of nonsense ain't worth wasting any more of my time on. Kola will just have to find another way to amuse herself. Maybe she can look in the mirror and have a gab fest with "prettybabygirl" |
Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 657
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 06:36 pm: |
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TROY JOHNSON, the owner of this site has checked the IP ADDRESSES and Kola hasn't posted here in over a week.
Mzuri, Schakspir and Cynique, however, have been MATCHED to a bunch of fake accounts including impersonating "Kola Boof" and posting as "Cynique_" and "Mzuri_"
You keep blaming Kola when THE OWNER OF THIS SITE caught your stank asses redhanded.
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Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 658
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 06:37 pm: |
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I guess Ntfs_encryption would call Troy a damned lie, though.
He's so hot to defend his asshole friends.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5176
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 07:13 pm: |
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Once and for all, KOLA, anybody as devious as you knows how to circumvent the IPN control by opening up different accounts. If you are in the hospital, which I doubt, unless it's a mental one, you probably have your lap top with you. After telling Troy in an e-mail that a long time ago I occasionally posted as "Pandora, something I have made known to the board, I accused you of being the perpetrator of the troll brigade, and since you have taken the liberty of attributing things to him, I will do likewise. My accusations were an opportunity for Troy to set me straight. But he never broached the subject nor did he bring any of the things you claim about me to my attention. YOU ARE A DESPERATE LIAR!
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Schakspir
Veteran Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 646
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 09:29 pm: |
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Yeah, this is pretty nutty, isn't it?? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1529
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 09:44 pm: |
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PBG is a bald-faced LIAR. Troy Johnson didn't match my IP address to any of that bullshit. I'm trying to figure out what the heck is the matter with this froot loop. Arguing is one thing but these accusations she's flailing around are completely absurd. The woman is completely irrational. Poor bitch done went and lost her friggen mind. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6409
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 07:57 am: |
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Why should we be compelled to say the Pledge of Allegiance? There's nothing within the U.S. Constitution that requires such of us? It's not criteria for American citizenship?
It's really just a tool for indocrinating foks into doing shyt like what's going down in Iraq.
I don't have any problem with saying the Pledge. And more times than not I'll recite it. But I do NOT think it should be made some sort of requirement, regardless as to whether or not "God" is included within it. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1317
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 08:56 am: |
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Do you have any opinions about what I wrote in the first post? Obviously I was not talking about reciting the Pledge as a "requirement." I was talking more about turning the reciting of it on its head: It may be meant to be indoctrination, but can we as parents (esp Black parents) find a way to use it as a tool for social justice for our kids?
As for the other "responses" to this topic: oh well. Ask an honest question and I guess these days on this board you get...this.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend, everybody. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 92
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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In some religions, Jehovah's Witness comes to mind, it is against their religious doctrine to recite the pledge because it's considered worshipping false idols.
The thing that stands out in my mind about the pledge is when my class had to learn it in first grade, our teacher sent us home with a print out of the pledge and instructed us to have our parents help us.
I remember my grandfather (born in 1909) picked me up from school that day and I asked him to help me learn the pledge.
All was well until he recited that last line. Apparently, when my grandfather was taught to say the pledge in school, years and years ago, the last line was: "with liberty and justice for SOME."
Exactly, who was that "some"? Considering my grandfather's birth year, I don't think we have to rack our brains too much to figure out whose liberty and justice the pledge spoke of.
Here, more than 30 years later, that always stayed in my mind. I DO NOT recite the pledge and I've taught my children not to recite it. It is on record at their schools that "It is against our family's political and cultural beliefs to salute the flag, recite the pledge of allegiance or sing the national anthem. We exercise our constitutional right not to participate in these activities." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5187
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 07:23 pm: |
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I think I kinda understand where you are coming from, Yvette. There is some intrinsic value in this pledge. It's all about loyalty. Loyalty is an admirable trait. Surely the American flag as a symbol of the country whose embassy would recognize and accomdate a black American citizen should they be at a loss in a foreign land, demands a certain amount of respect. Even so, to me, burning the flag is as American as apple pie because it is the most graphic and harmless form of protest. But - ridiculing the flag for the sake of ridicule refects more on the ridiculer than on the ridiculed. HUH? LOL |
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