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Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 396
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 03:24 pm: | 
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i found tons of interesting articles on how blacks viewed themselves before being enslaved and colonized by arabs and whites but i will only present a few of them here because i dont feel like posting all of them tonight at once.....all of the articles come to the same conclusion and that is that blacks held a very positive view of themselves (which im not surprised).
here's a quote form an article that talks about how africans viewed thier hair egyptian women dyed their hair all different colors but they prefered thick black hair over blonde and red hair...they also preferred the thickness of their hair. unlike today where black women compain aboutt their hair being too thick (even the straight haired ones complain that their hair is too thick) and try to dye their hair blodne and red. today people beleive blondes have more fun but during antiquity in most countries even outside africa black hair was the favorite color.
"They thought thick hair was best and used hair extensions and wigs made of real hair or sheep's wool. They dyed their hair and wigs a variety of colors with blues, greens, blondes and gold colors being among the preferred colors though black wigs hued by indigo were the favorite"
http://www.crystalinks.com/hair2.html
"The Egyptians regarded the color (red) as so unlucky that they had a ceremony to burn redheaded maidens alive to wipe out the tint, but it has failed. There are still people with red hair. "
http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/red_hair.htm
unlike today where the color black symbolizes death, deamons, imorrality and impurity, before colonialism the colors white and black actually both symbolized the very opposite of what they symbolize today.
here's one article that talks about colors in egypt and what they symbolized during antiquity. b;lack symbolized an elevated status while yellow represented weakness and white represented death. this is the reason queen nefertari was always painted in black to ymbolize her elevated status. She was one of the few egyptian queens to be diified.
here's a quote form the article
"Nefertari - (right) Women (right; below, right) depicted in the traditional Egyptian yellow complexion, the color of weakness. This is driven by the same masculine ideology which depicts the wife of the Pharaoh in colossal statuary as a tiny standing figure whose head doesn't even reach as high as the seated pharaoh's knee.
Ahmose Nefertari - Wife of Ahmose. (right) She was a queen of great authority, which is why her skin is painted black. The traditional color for Egyptian women was yellow, not because they were actually that complexion, but yellow indicates a physical weakness vis-a-vis the Egyptian male. However, politically speaking, Egyptian women were far from weak in Egyptian society.
Tutankhamen (right) being reborn, his brown skin turning to black - the color of transformation and resurrection. The God Ptah (Toh) - "Lord of Resurrection", holding the sceptre (Wose), sits in judgment. His blue complexion shows that he is "god of creation and regeneration."
This is a purely symbolic representation. We know from Tutankhamen's mummy that he was already black complexioned, in a Michael Jordan kinda way.
Egyptian Noble family (right). All have the same brown complexions, illustrating social equality. This really became a more common rendition after the Amarna revolution of Pharaoh Ikhnaton.
Egyptian Skin Tones - Symbolic & Conventional
Egyptian male (dark)
Egyptian brown skin.....masculine, strong
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn
White skin....................recently deceased
Old Egyptian male (light)
Yellow skin....................weak, frail
Egyptian female (light)
Yellow skin....................feminine, weak
Egyptian brown skin.....equal of men (Amarna period)
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn
Egyptian gods
Gold skin......................flesh of the gods
Blue skin......................the cosmic waters, the firmament
Green skin...................life (i.e., plants)
Black skin.....................resurrection, sacred, holy, benevolent"
http://us.f334.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLette...ead=b&box=Inbox |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 397
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
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after reading all of this, it's as if whites made a DELIBERATE effort to switch the meanings of these symbols around to represent the complete opposite so that they could rise to power. I say this because there's just too much of a coincidence between what those colors symbolized then and what they symbolize now.
but i do know that during the time of the egyptians, africans and arabs during antiquity owned white slaves. so perhaps this was whites way of getting back at thier "oppressors." i could be wrong though. it's just a theory.
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Dahomeyahosi
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 08:59 pm: |
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I know that West Africans viewed darker skinned woman as more beautiful specifically because hard working women were highly valued and farming/market work leads to darker skin. I use the past tense because many of us are now fools but many of us including myself still feel the same way.
It is natural to love oneself....non-Africans can safely assume that Africans loved themselves prior to European and Arab invasions. Anything else is absurd. |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 406
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 09:10 pm: |
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interesting dahomeyahosi,
where did you get your information from because i would like to look into that more |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 978
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:34 pm: |
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You bring up very good topics in your threads, Misty. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 980
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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I read that the Egyptians were a mixed race culture...is that true? Someone said that Queen Nefertiti was mixed.. |
Dahomeyahosi
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 81
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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Misty I am from Benin...it's one of the many things my elders and parents told me.
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Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 575
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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Exactly Dahomeyahosi. How in the hell is Egypt supposed to be the standard for Africa? They're not even black no more!
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Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 576
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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Aren't our ancestors from West Africa and not Egypt?
I'm African American from slave descendents. What about what they thought of themselves before slavey?
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1285
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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LOL....PBG.....Haven't you noticed that American Blacks love Egypt above all of the rest of Africa for that very reason? |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 407
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
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"You bring up very good topics in your threads, Misty."
thanks brownbeauty
"I read that the Egyptians were a mixed race culture...is that true? Someone said that Queen Nefertiti was mixed.."
well, the first egyptians were full black and i've heard all kinds of theories of what part of africa the first egyptians came from some claim they came from west africa and some claim it was from east africa. I dont really know what part of africa the first egyptians arrived here form but i DO know that the first were african.
Later on you had outsiders (such as romans, mesopotamians, greeks and arabs) began to come into egypt and that's when the mixing began. So thats why alot of the egyptians today dont look like they use to look (although you still ahve some visibly black egyptians liek the ethiopians, etc.). |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 408
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:06 pm: |
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"Misty I am from Benin...it's one of the many things my elders and parents told me."
i asked because it's always good to hear aobut these kinds of things...there is so little information on the history of blacks before colonialism and outside influence (unless you read about the egyptians) but the egyptians are the only culture that alot of information about our hsitory was kept about.
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Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 411
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:28 pm: |
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"Aren't our ancestors from West Africa and not Egypt? "
yes but im a bit unclear about what part of africa the egyptians came from.
"I'm African American from slave descendents. What about what they thought of themselves before slavey?"
thats a good question...there is such little information on postcolonial africa outside of egypt...i've tried pretty hard to find inormation on that but all i get is small snippets of stuff.... i'm never able get much information on their views on their self conception before western and foreign influence.
either way pbg,
the egyptians were just as black as anyone else....of course i would love to have information on west africans and how they viewed black skin vs white skin before colonialism but it still doestn make egyptian blacks irrelevant simply because our ancestors suppposedly didnt come from that part of africa.
egyptians views of themselves before colonialism are still very relevant in that they demystify the belief that whiteness is inherently more attractive and superior to black by nature.
it's also just as relevant to get ancient chinese or native american views on their self-conception before western domination....ALL of this stuff works agaisnt white supremacy just the same.
believe it or not you stil ahve alot of people of color under the impression that the world as it is today represents the NATURAL and god given order of things...so if you were to inntroduce this type of information to people who believe that way it would make them rethink their belief in white superiority and would make them question why and how things have changed so drastically today from the way it was before whites took over.
Lets not be so petty as to discount this information or take it with a grain of salt simply because it didnt take place in "our part" of africa. |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 412
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:30 pm: |
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"Exactly Dahomeyahosi. How in the hell is Egypt supposed to be the standard for Africa? They're not even black no more!"
but who the hell SAID or even IMPLIED that they were the standard for africa
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Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 413
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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"LOL....PBG.....Haven't you noticed that American Blacks love Egypt above all of the rest of Africa for that very reason?"
Not to deny that a high level of colorism exists amongst african americvans BUT, i personalyl believe the reason african americans site so much information about egypt is simply because there's MORE (especially more positive) information about them. You rarely if ever get to hear or read about the grand civilizations that existed in west africa and you have to dig really hard and deep to find this information. |
Misty
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 414
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
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here is another quote from an early European explorer on how the people of the congo viewed dark skin as opposte to lgiht and white skin
"The indigenous peoples of the Congo," he wrote, "are all black in color, some more so, some less so. Many are to be seen who are the color of chestnut and some tend to be more olive-colored. But the one who is of the deepest black in color is held by them to be the most beautiful. Some are born somewhat light-skinned, but as they grow older they become darker and darker. This occurs because their mothers make use of the artifice of an ointment... with which they anoint their infants, exposing them once they have been anointed, to the rays of the sun, then leaving them there for long periods, and repeating this action over and over... There are some children who although their parents are black, are born white skinned and although they anoint them and use all manners of artifice they can never be transformed into blackskinned people. And these are regarded by the Congolese as monsters. They have the same features and the same tightly curled hair as the black Congolese, but their skin is white and they are short-sighted....As a result, children in those areas, where a white has never been seen before, would become terrified, fleeing in horror from us, no less than our children here are terrified by the sight of a black also fleeing in horror for them.
But they do not want us to call them Negroes (negros) but Blacks (Prietos); amongst them only slaves are called Negroes and thus amongst them it is the same things to say negro as to say slave."
[Teruel, Antonio de, Narrative Description of...the Kingdom of the Congo (1663-1664) Ms. 3533:3574/National Library, Madrid, Spain]
The wooden mask shown in the link below is evidence that in some african tribes the darkest skin represents the essence of female beauty and moral purity. this is the complete opposite of western culture where whitness represents femininity and purity. read the quote below, then visit the link that this quote comes from. You can also view the masks in the link below.
"Mende, Sierre Leone and Liberia Wood. This mask is worn over the head of a female elder who dances for the Sande women's society. The mask displays and celebrates Mende ideals of female beauty and virtue: elaborately braided hair (cosmetic skills, sexuality); neck creases (full-bodied, good health); smooth, broad forehead (nobility, intelligence); lowered eyes (contemplativeness, restraint); well shaped ears; small nose; small mouth (not given to gossip); composed _expression (inner serenity), smooth skin (youthfulness). All these features are exaggerated in the mask, its three thick rows of braided hair, large neck folds, wide forehead, diminutive nose and mouth, and polished surface. The bird figure (missing its head & tail) perched on top of the coiffure has many meanings: clairvoyance, love, fertility, power, danger, discipline, prudence, and laughter. The mask's shining blackness connotes the essence of female beauty and moral purity."
Here is the page that this qoute comes from, you can also view the african masks discussed in this quote on this page
http://www.montana.edu/cybertour/art/6to12/haugens/
South India
"It is a fact that in this country, when a child is born they anoint him once a week with oil of sesame, and this makes him grow much darker than when he was born. For I assure you that the darkest man is here the most highly esteemed and considered better than the others who are not so dark. Let me add that in the very truth these people portray and depict their gods and idols black and their devils white as snow. For they say God and all the saints are black and the devils are all white. That is why they portray them as I have described. And similarly they make images of their idols all black."
SOUTHEAST ASIA
"For the complexion of men, they consider black the most beautiful.In all kingdoms of the southern region, it is the same.
http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=1999&x=blackwhite
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Dahomeyahosi
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 84
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 09:49 pm: |
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Misty,
There is a lot of written history of Egypt. This is true. But a lot of it is poorly derived guesswork. West African history is largely oral. We have a wealth of history....it's just that westerners have never valued oral history. It seems that westerners only consider something to exist if it's written. If you want to know West African history you have to talk to people. I know this is not easy so if possible try to make sure the author's last name is West African rather than Davidson, Jones, etc.
There is one large scale project that I know of to write West African histories down. It focuses on spiritual ceremonies and their place in West African society. But many West Africans are tired of our histories being discounted and so they choose not to share. No one likes to here their past called myths but this is generally what westerners call them. |
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