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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2720
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:43 pm: | 
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So why not? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6447
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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You mean OTHER than it not having any Italian, Jewish or Irish lead roles and storyline? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3257
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:55 pm: |
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It wasn't that great to be frank.
Definitely not on par with "The Godfather" or "Scarface" or any of the more meaningful and NUANCED gangster flicks.
The ones from the 1930's are still the best.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3258
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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Maybe if Spike Lee or Raoul Peck---a truly gifted BLACK filmmaker had directed it, instead of Mario Van Peebles, whose work is always SURFACE---it might have been a great film.
It's just entertaining and features a dynamic acting performance by Wesley Snipes.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2722
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:03 pm: |
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That's what I'm saying.
These were gangster movies. All of them are melodramatic drivel--even The Godfather.
Come on--a mob boss turning down dope money? A good man forced to become a mob boss--in the 40's all the bosses were the product of Jewish and Italian gangs of the early 20th century and bootlegging gangs of the 20's. Look at them--n courtly, mannered family men in the bunch--Meyer Lansky was the closest and he was a Jew.
A tommygun rubout in New York in the 40's? Somebody putting a horse's head in your bed without waking up.
Quick--who were Paul Muni's co-stars in Scarface? No cheating. Who co starrred with Edward G. Robinson in Little Caesar? How about Cagney in The Public Enemy.
You remember them and you remember how they practically defined the gangster role.
Now who has done a better black gangster than Wesley Snipes? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6450
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:04 pm: |
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Kola,
I think that Godfather I & II were far/away superior to New Jack City.
But I must say I don't see how/where Scareface was materially better.
Honestly. I think you could say Scareface and New Jack City were very much the same story, only one was in White (okay...Tan) face while the other was in Black. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2724
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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Who has done a better black gangster than Wesley Snipes? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5130
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:09 pm: |
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Who said this movie wasn't included among the great gangster flicks? Wesley Snipes was a criminal executive. "Menace to Society" dealt more with nitty gritty street violence and in giving a little insight into the amoral gangster mentality. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6453
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:12 pm: |
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Chris,
EXCELLENT question.
'Nino Brown' was aS COLDBLOODED as any celluliod gangster has EVER BEEN.
I mean, the mofo hugs his bestfried, tell him he loves him, cries...and then SHOOTS dude in the head.
That shyt there was PRICELESS! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3263
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:17 pm: |
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ABM, I disagree. The WRITING (script) for "New Jack City" was atrocious. If Wesley Snipes had not starred in the film, you'd have been able to see just how bad it was.
No one's going to tell me that Edward G. Robinson and James Cagney's "potboilers" were mere DRIVEL. There was enormous "under-shading" of the characters---the city, the politics---so much more was explored in mere ONE LINERS than in NJC.
And I also agree...."MENACE TO SOCIETY" is one of the greatest gangster movies ever made. Really and truly. THOSE are today's gangsters and that movie had depth and brilliant writing, direction and acting---far superior to "New Jack City".
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6457
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:20 pm: |
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Kola,
Okay. But my thing is I DON'T recall being knocked over by the script and direction of Scareface either.
Moreover, I think Pacino's performance as a CUBANO was just CRAP. So gotdayam over the top it crept into cartoon territory.
But I agree that "MENANCE TO SOCIETY" is better than New Jack. That sucker was one of the BEST films made in the '90's. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5132
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
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As for the trivia questions, Chris posed about ol ganster flicks. I m sure George Raft had to be in some of those movies. Raft became an instant hit in his first movie where he played a coin-flippping hood. I believe this movie was the original Scareface with Paul Muni. No google. Just memory. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2726
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
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Kola:
You said it when you called them "potboilers".
The part in Angels with Dirty Faces where O'Brien tells Cagney that he's got to die yellow--and he does it.
Come on.
The part in Little Caesar where the guys shoot Eddie G. and he yells out, "Fine shot ya are."
The part at the end where he's been ventilated by the machineguns and he says, "Mother of Mercy! Is this the end of Rico?"
That megilla was strictly for the birds in the cheapseats. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2727
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 03:34 pm: |
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I forgot in White Heat where Cagney is on top of the blazing oil refinery and yells out, "Top of the World, Ma!"
This is strictly pulp fiction. This is the essense of the gangster flicks. Ridiculous--but we love it.
That part when Wesley is meeting with his underlings after they had to blow up the apartment where they were dealing the dope and he plunges the knife through the dude's hand and says, "I ain't never liked you no way. Pretty motherfucker."
And then he says to all assembled, "Leave me."
Classic. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6468
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 03:42 pm: |
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Chris,
There was some colorist shyt going down in that scene.
I believe Wesley probably really DIDN'T like Christopher Williams' 'high yella' a$$.
Hahahahaha!! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2729
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 04:25 pm: |
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What about that part at the end where Wesley is on the stand all smooth and sh*t and gives that speech about how dealing drugs is The American Way. He was cold as a mutha.
What other black gangster was that cold? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6473
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 04:41 pm: |
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Chris,
That was funny.
Though what was FUNNIER was the look on his face AND the way he sommersaulted into a freefall after Bill Nunn shot his a$$.
THAT...and then the nonchalant facial expression of Ice T's afterwards are friggin' HILARIOUS. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2734
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 06:24 pm: |
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Abm:
Bill Nunn did not shoot him. Bill Nunn played Duh Duh Duh man, one of his enforcers.
You had to bring up one of the more unpleasant parts of the movie didn't you? The tragic part where the hero dies--
By the way, I cheer for the Indians in Cowboys and Indians, and for the bad guys in most other movies and for the dirty, rule breaking wrestlers in wrestling. Just like Jimmy the Gent in Goodfellas--
Damn-- |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 514
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 01:00 am: |
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chrishayden those aren't movies that your mentoining, i believe they called those "talking pictures" and everyone ended every statement with .. see.
menace 2 society wasn't a gangster movie it was outstanding hood movie (sort of like boyz n da hood ...but with a message that you can't find). scarface has to be good abm, why would everyone have all those posters and qoute the damn thing so much if it wasn't the shiznit.
both king of new york and new jack city where good for their time, njc had an excellent sound track too ... mario van pebbles is the dawg, what ever happened to his show spoons?
kola they where making fun of your book on comedy central 2 days ago, on the colbert report... i hope that all this publicity has given you a boost in the book sales department. i know you take your work seriously, and i'm a goofball at heart .... so next time you want to get on a goofball show (rover radio) ask somebody what it's about ... because i could've told you that they weren't gonna do you right.
and by the way the god father is over rated. 
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6476
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 07:47 am: |
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Chris,
You got me. I confused the 'Bills'. The guy who shot Nino Brown was portrayed by Bill COBBS. |
Tall_brother
Regular Poster
Username: Tall_brother
Post Number: 32
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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Kola you str8 trip'n! Boy you knw you wack.
New Jack set the style.
Nino Brown is da shit.
Man Fucc Scarface b.s.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2739
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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Wesley Snipes set the mold. All the subsequent Black Gangsters are Nino Brown. Slick. Cool. Well dressed. Mannered. Violent. Amoral.
Both those dudes on the Wire, the guy who played Avon Barksdale and the guy who played Stringer are doing Nino Brown, and why not?
It's just like the quintessential pirate is still Robert Newton. The quintessential witch is Margaret Hamilton. The quintessential Frito Bandito was Eli Wallach. (A Jew, go figure) |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 977
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 01:03 pm: |
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New Jack City was rather boring to me. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 601
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 01:04 pm: |
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I hated New Jack City when it came out, and when I saw it again four years ago, I still loathed it. Sugar Hill was a far better, far more nuanced film; New Jack-off implicitly glorified that gangsta crap. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1449
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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I loved New Jack City because it was all about Nino Brown. Also love The Godfather. And Menace 2 Society is one of my alltime favorite movies ever. I think I'm an OG. Don't fuck with me bitches! I'll cut ya!!! LOL!!! |
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