| Author |
Message |
    
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:48 pm: | 
|
the following is an extract from my book which is soon to be published. the kola one is not the only author on these boards...although unfortunately for me i did not sleep with bin-laden so my own lesser work is unlikely to sell a zillion copies. too bad perhaps in the next life!!
anyway, im reproducing it here because i want to highlight something which i think we all know but perhaps want to forget.
-----------------------------------------------
The more progressive section of the movement linked itself to the Nyabingi who were the men and women at the forefront of the anti-colonial struggle in Uganda. The Nyabingi clarion call was; �Death to black and white oppressors.� (Campbell; 1985, 72. my emphasis). Thus, the clear recognition that black agents of imperialism were just as culpable as any other.
------------------------------------------------
if the contention is true ie that black agents can be just as oppressive as any other,then much of the discussion of colorism and blackness on these boards is slightly misguided. yes race matters, culture matters because the europeans sought to oppress using race and culture as a tool.thus resistance must of necessity encompass race and culture. but beyond that to assume that black folk make up a homogenous group and that those of a lighter hue make up the oppressors ranks is in my view patently wrongheaded. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3246
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 05:58 pm: |
|
For your fucking information---
there are many FAMOUS authors on this board, not just Kola.
And there also authors on this board who were published BECAUSE OF Kola.
You really need to get to know the people on this board before you start the whining crybaby shit.
As for your POST...when have the people here ever said that "Blacks" weren't just as colorstruck as "yellow" people.
Your REAL problem is that you haven't been here or fully understood the complexity of the issues that WE ALL have been discussing amongst ourselves for 5 years now.
You really need to shut the fuck up and get to know the people here FIRST.
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
|
kola my dear..i thought u didnt read my posts or speak to me?
please dont lets trivialize the point im trying to make. i was only playing...u know trying to add some humour to a grave matter! obviously u have no sense of humour.
there are black agents, high yellow and white agents of capitalism.
have a nice day. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3249
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 06:38 pm: |
|
I'm not your fucking dear.
And if you don't want to be chewed out about your ignorance, then don't start posts with my name.
Now fuck you and STEP THE FUCK OFF!
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 06:50 pm: |
|
theres got to be something wrong when someone is so intolerant. i think chrishayden described u as ideologically unsophisticated...that was v nice and polite. honestly this type of reaction is a bit extreme.
i dont agree with yer line of analysis and u dont agree with me...but honestly the type of ignorancy and rabidness that u are displaying is not a good recommendation. if u dont like my ideas thats ok...thers no need to go ballistic.ideas are wot we can use to change the world, they are not to be feared.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
MLK-1963 |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3251
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 06:54 pm: |
|
I'm not intolerant----I just don't like your fucking yellow ass!
I was put up for adoption by my yellow ass grandmother for being darkskinned---so I hate bitches you like you who claim Colorism doesn't exist--mainly because your PISS-faced ass never experienced it.
You keep posting that bullshit and I wish you'd fucking catch Throat-Clap and DIE.
Now leave me the fuck alone!
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3252
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:02 pm: |
|
Correction: I don't like that you keep putting MY NAME in your fucking posts. You haven't suffered what I have, so you need to leave my name out of your shit.
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:08 pm: |
|
u seem very intolerant and u also seem v ignorant. im sorry that your grandmother put u up for adoption, that obviously leaves a deep emotional scar.again im sorry about that.
but to wish death on me becos i have a different view point is something i cant fathom.
let me be straight up...im interested in discussing capitalism, imperialism and colonialism because i believe that its capitalism in all its forms thats the enemy. it sets us at each others throats and so forth and so on. racism i see as an outgrowth of capitalism and the same with colorism which i maintain is a distraction and away of again getting the oppressed to fight each other as opposed to the common enemy.
my divide is between progressive and reactionary not between black and brown and white and whatever else. one of my greatest heroes was/is malcom, the other mlk, the other bob marley...they are all pretty much brownish...what differentiates them is not their complexions but their ideas. thats why i respect the nyabingi, they understood the type of struggle which had to be waged and im not sure that u do!
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:19 pm: |
|
"Correction: I don't like that you keep putting MY NAME in your fucking posts. You haven't suffered what I have, so you need to leave my name out of your shit. "
kola one....u have placed yourself in the public eye, brit tv, us tv, jet magazine and so on and so forth. try to understand that as a public figure u cant legislate as to who uses yer name or not...its unfortunate, its like that....just goes with the territory. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 572
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:26 pm: |
|
Excuse me, Crymeariver, for my curiosity, but, despite your prior assertion, you haven't made you view point clear; so it only makes sense that you won't mind me asking this question.  Are you saying that if capitalism no longer existed, the need to exert power over another will also cease to exist?
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:35 pm: |
|
No Im not saying that. Capitalism though is quite distinct as a social formation. And I think we should pay attention to its shape and its form because I believe it wiil help us to understand so much more about the struggles we face.
|
Inyaniso
Newbie Poster
Username: Inyaniso
Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:36 pm: |
|
Crymeariver, your assertions of the evils of capitalism are very common but very erroneous. Capitalism may not be the economic system that many wish to live under for reasons which I am sure you can articulate. However capitalism is not the cause of racism and racism is not an "outgrowth of capitalism". My uncle after being forced to flee to the Soviet Union in the early seventies and my own numerous visits to Cuba completely belie your assertions. White Supremacy is the cause of racism and internalized racism and self hate are what propagate colorism.
Lastly, It is very important to respect other peoples wishes, if you are asked not to use someones name and not to direct any comments to them, that in no way hinders you from posting your opinions and engaging in discussions with others |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 07:43 pm: |
|
Thank you Inyaniso. The former Soviet Union was precisely the example that I intended to bring up. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 20
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
|
i concede the racism re the soviet union/cuba. more precisely it is capitalism that exaccerbates these differences between human beings. and i would like to know how u seperate white supremacy from capitalism...in johnnie cochrane's words they are to my mind hand and gluv.
it was slavery which brought us here. and that was capitalist in its form and shape. colonialism, imperialism and now globalized capitalism keep us in bondage and fan flames which emphasize the differences.
moreover in capitalist america blacks are at the bottom of the pyramid, thats not an accident.
ooops im so sorry but i beg to differ on whose names i invoke in my posts or dont invoke. the kola one will have to live with that. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
|
this i think is te best perspective on where i stand in relation to racism and resistance.
------------------------------------------------
Culture has always been used by the ruling classes as an instrument of class domination. But in Jamaica and in the colonies at large there was always the complicating factor of race. Thus it was that the ideas of white supremacy were circulated to justify the exploitation of black labor. It follows that race and culture became the contested terrain on which the ideological struggle for independence and self-determination was/is waged. According to Rodney; �Color had become important because the white man found it convenient to use racialism to exploit black peoples of the world. As Africans, we will use the question of race to unify ourselves, and to escape from the oppression of white men and their black lackeys. So long as there are people who deny our humanity as blacks then for so long must we proclaim our humanity as blacks.� (Rodney, 1969, 39)
--------------------------------------- |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 575
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
|
Color is a commodity thus making it A PART of capitalism. But name something that isn't capitalist in its form, even in a socialist society. You could rid the world of white supremacy by eliminating color as a commodity. You can't do away with capitalism by eliminating white supremacy because something else would take its place: big boobs, height, long penises and etcetera. This suggests that capitalism and white supremacy are two different entities with white supremacy being capitalism's most valuable (human) commodity. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
|
could u explain a bit more for me i really dont understand what u are saying. to me color as a commodity, means that color is created by workers joined with capital and that color is then bought and sold. im sure u dont mean that.
i do understand the second part of what u ask...and no i cant name something thats not capitalist in form because there are no socialist societies-we live in the age of global capitalism.
and again i really dont understand the rest of the post becos it turns oncolor as a commodity. so please explain. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 576
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
|
Okay I got you. If you get rid of capitalism there won't be any (human) commodities. Got it. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 577
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 08:54 pm: |
|
"i really dont understand the rest of the post becos it turns oncolor as a commodity."
"Commodity" can mean anything that people value or can use for financial or some kind of gain. Since white skin is valued and can be used for gain, it's a commodity.
|
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 09:13 pm: |
|
thanks. i'd never looked at it that way. my view is that all labor power whatever color it comes in is a commodity because it is bought and sold and because it creates surplus value for the capitalist. it may be that labor power that comes in a white skin has a higher price but as we know there are an awful lot of poor white folk as well.
here i think there is the start of a convergence in our respective thinking:
"This suggests that capitalism and white supremacy are two different entities with white supremacy being capitalism's most valuable (human) commodity."
apart from the fact that i disagree on the white supremacy as a commodity...i see white supremacy as a system of ideas used to justify the exploitation of black labor.....there is convergence in that i believe the fight against white supremacy is the start of a fight against capitalism.
to me what i call nationalist ideas dont go far enough because there is very little analysis of class thereafter. to be honest i dont want to change a white nationalist for a black nationalist because almost all of the independence struggles in the colonies have shown that black nationalist have done little more than deliver there populations more firmly into the grip of capitalism. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 578
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
|
“...it may be that labor power that comes in a white skin has a higher price…”
Absolutely.
“…but as we know there are an awful lot of poor white folk as well.”
Yeah but if you were to take a poor black and a poor white--with everything save color being the same--it’s more likely that the poor white would be given an advantage simply for his/her color.
“to me what i call nationalist ideas dont go far enough because there is very little analysis of class thereafter.”
I totally agree with that except I would add color. They don’t account for color either.
“almost all of the independence struggles in the colonies have shown that black nationalist have done little more than deliver there populations more firmly into the grip of capitalism.”
To some extent, I agree with that too.
Btw:
“and no i cant name something thats not capitalist in form because there are no socialist societies…”
I was referring to USSR ideologies and the past. But don’t forget, there are still scores of people who envision a revolution entailing such ideologies. Don’t tell SPUSA that there’s no such thing as a socialist society! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
|
Crymeariver - Kola hates everybody. And if you need some free publicity for your book, just make up some stupid bullshit, submit it in your press releases, and eventually people will start to believe you. It supposedly works for Kola so it might work for you too. LOL!!! |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 01:59 am: |
|
tonya..its nice to find someone in this forum who is errr errr ..... enjoyed our exchange and look forward to more.
------------------------------
mzuri...the kola one's grandmama gave her out to be adopted, thats bound to leave one in sexual intercourse upped state of mind. pays to be gentle with her.
as for the shameless, unabashed, bold and bald face self promotion, its really not for me. im quite comfortable as i am. from what i see the kola one (by her own mouth)has sold a zillion copies...my own little offering only has a run of 500. sleeping with bin laden would help, but hes simply not my type!
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6434
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
|
Crymeariver,
You initial post appears to presuppose that there is has been no colorist oppression imposed amongst Black foks. However. Others like myself, Kola, Tonya, PBG, might counter that such has ALWAYS existed and what you're witnessing now is growing sentiment towards recognizing, acknowledging and DEFYING the racist, colorist status quo. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5126
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
|
Crymeariver, is English you second language? To be able to articulate your view with such lucidity impresses me so much that I want to agree with everything you say. One thing for sure. The word capitalism contains the word capital and capital ain't just money, it's wealth. Never mind all of the minutia about commodities and color, I agree that Capitalism aids and abets racism. After all, Communism is the alternative to Capitalism and its goal was to eliminate racism and poverty and make everyone equal. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 01:29 am: |
|
Cynique:
I thank u for the mighty big complement. English is my first and only language. A few people have said similar things and I am now starting to believe it. The only thing which can explain it is that I am extraordinarily bookish and have read a lotta books.Fav author is Jimmy Baldwin, fav book = Another Country.
--------------------------
abn:
u read me wrong.to the extent that u emphasize colorism, i think that it is a misplaced emphasis. |
Dahomeyahosi
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 08:47 pm: |
|
Crymeariver regardless of Europeans, Africans have been viewing each other through a cultural prism for millenia. I consider "blackness" to be a necessary pre-requisite but not sufficient to identify comrades. I agree that culture is the primary necessity. Though still not sufficient........
I'm not sure but I don't think that Kola or anyone ever asserted that blacks make up a homogeneous group. But I believe it is the Pan-African ideal that blacks can put aside cultural differences and band together for common, essential goals. I don't think this is very realistic. Race is a European pipe dream that they define and redefine to meet their needs and so the very idea of Pan-African is questionable. What I appreciate from Kola is that her racial delineations are more in line with mine...indigenous West African ones. Black American racial definitions were given to them by whites and they have internalized them and continue to promote them as the truth.
As Wade Nobles said power is the ability to define reality and have others accept your definitions as if they were their own. No one will deny the power that whites have. I will not let them have to power to define for me. There is nothing wrong with attacking their definitions. It is the only way to reclaim power. |
Crymeariver
Regular Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
|
Dahomeyahosi:
thanks for an interesting response. i disagree on 2 counts:
1. real power can only be claimed if one first attains economic power, because it is only then that u have the ability to enforce your definitions on the rest. this is what the capitalist has-economic power, so he/she controls the media, the education, process and so on and so forth.in short i dont think much of wade and noble's characterization.
2. if i understand the kola one correctly there is the suggestion that "brown" people in and of themselves are oppressors. that i maintain is wrongheaded. at best they are agents of the capitalist. and again they are no different from very black people who are themselves agents of the capitalist. so again without the linkages (and i dont see them being made) - it is a completely wrong headed discussion that obfusicates.
where i agree with you is that of course what we appreciate from others is the fact that they reinforce our own ideas i.e u and the kola one. |
Prettybabygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Prettybabygirl
Post Number: 574
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
|
Crymeariver, I'm a light skinned sista and you make me puke with all this bullshit denial about colorism.
I'm with Kola and Dahomeyahosi.
|
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 609
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 02:15 pm: |
|
Crymeariver, I am an author, not exactly famous(yet), but ignore Kola's crap; with her, everything is personal. This whole board is her personal ego-trip. Any politically enlightened person will see that historically browns(usually the bastard offspring of black and white)were used as a buffer caste between black and white, and Kola gets so wrapped up in attacking the browns because it's a lot easier attacking them than attacking the people who REALLY hold the keys to the kingdom of capitalism. I.e., WHITES. The browns, and not a few blacks, yellows, reds, etc. do the dirty work of keeping blacks, and each other, oppressed. Of course, in every revolution, often the "dirty workers" had to be eliminated before the revolution could succeed. |
Crymeariver
Regular Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 28
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 05:07 pm: |
|
pbg: perhaps alka-seltzer or andrews would help.
schakspir: we are totally on the same page (politically and on the kola one).
to be honest im fascinated by the line of argument espoused by the kola one and her cohorts. in part its amusing and in part sad....despite the denials the kola one and cohorts seem to be oblivious to what the puppeteer is doing with their strings.
good luck with the writing! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6478
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 06:20 pm: |
|
It's possible for foks to agree with Kola without their being puppets and she their puppetmaster. |
Crymeariver
Regular Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 29
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 09:56 pm: |
|
abm: u misunderstand - wasnt talking about the kola one as the string puller. her strings are as pulled as everyone elses.
read again: " .... despite the denials the kola one and cohorts seem to be oblivious to what the puppeteer is doing with their strings."
|
Dahomeyahosi
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 09:51 pm: |
|
Crymeariver you sound like you have a grudge against capitalism. I love capitalism but I guess that's a discussion for a different thread. |
Crymeariver
Regular Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 31
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
|
try not to bear grudges against social systems or against people. grudges really dont change very much and i want to see change.
u have an int'l division of labor and a system of global social relations which places africa at the bottom of the ladder and u love capitalism. thats a great shame. in the end its my belief that u and others like you are misguided.thus you are as much agents of a pernicious system as any brown or high color black person whom you seem to believe is the oppressor. again, i think thats a great shame because the puppeteer pulls and you dance! |
Email This Page