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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 945
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 12:22 am: | 
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Can someone explain what makes the Black experience significantly much harder than the Lightskin/Mixed/Mulatto experience?
I thought I'd start this topic after having a discussion with a friend who is very lightskin about how he feels that he faces much bigger obstacles for being lightskin because he catches hell from Blacks & Whites.. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 431
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 12:44 am: |
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there is no difference. if you have one drop of black blood you are viewed as black. light skin black people may not be the same as "mulattos". i have plenty of light skin family members who are light skin but they are not "mixed" or "mulattos". in america you are black if you are "light skin", "mixed", or "mulatto".
you speak of your light skin friend as "catching hell from blacks and whites". well, newsflash light skin people are black. maybe he catches hell from "darker" black people, but he is still black. the black experience in america includes anyone with one drop of black blood. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2679
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 01:49 am: |
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It is all relative. Just a bunch of niggas taking their lumps and pointing fingers at each other accusing each other of having it easier because they don't have the guts to tackle the one who is kicking them all in the ass.
It will never change. Exclude yourself from it and watch the antics of the knee jerk puppets. |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 159
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 02:11 am: |
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People are judged by their outward appearance. No one is forced to carry papers around or prove whether they have a drop of black blood and whites today are not strict about light skinned people being classified as black since many have white mothers and are accepted into white families. I’ve heard light skinned people say they only choose to acknowledge they are black because they were raised to do so and some say they later changed their minds and identified as white. No one questions them unless they are obviously black.
People like Lil_flea try to apply this one-drop principle erroneously to discriminate against darker blacks who can be identified and treated as such to discredit their experience. Whites have always favored lighter blacks to darker ones & lighter blacks in turn consider themselves superior to darker ones by attitudes like Lil_fleas that they are ugly. The whole idea that black=ugly is what fuels much of the discrimination. And that discrimination comes from both blacks and whites as you can see.
You have to be blind not to see that dark skinned blacks are the ones overtly discriminated against by everyone while light skins are praised by all, including dark skinned blacks. Especially light skinned females, males are not evaluated by Euro beauty standards the way females are so they are not discriminated against in that manner socially. And most males could care less about the social discrimination dark females endure. Most black males practice color discrimination against black females and think nothing of it. All they care for is them selves.
I worked with a very light skinned woman before that I thought was Hispanic but she sort of sounds black and seems to subtly identify with both sides when its to her convenience. Yet she is good friends with a very racist ww who does not even speak to blacks and openly can’t stand them. I have witnessed a lot of whites favor lighter skinned blacks this way and love to butter them up with complements about how ‘different’ they are then other blacks. That’s their game.
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 432
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 02:27 am: |
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i don't subscribe to any "black=ugly" philosophy. gabrielle union, tyrell hicks, vivian green, meagan good, wendy fitzpatrick (miss universe from trinidad), none of these females are "light skin", yet they are very beautiful. so where is the "dark=ugly' standard present? like it or not, the "one drop rule" is a reality. light skin people are black. believe it or not.
please explain to me how "black males" are not evaluated by euro-beauty standards, but females are. if dark skin females are going through such "hell" beacuse they are dark skin, why are dark skin males going through the same thing?
light skin black people have it no easier than any of our people. i think that in most cases they have it a bit harder, because darker black people give them s*it about being light skin, and whites discriminate against anyone who is not white. can we please stop trying to make light skin black people the scapegoat. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3164
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 02:31 am: |
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Alice Walker (1973):
"I think there is probably as much difference between the life of a black black woman and a 'high yellow' black woman as between a 'high yellow' black woman and a white woman. And I am worried, constantly, about the hatred the black black woman encounters within black society. To me, the black black woman is our essential mother--the blacker she is the more us she is--and to see the hatred that is turned on her is enough to make me despair, almost entirely, of our future as a people."
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 433
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 03:09 am: |
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who the hell made alice walker (lesbian) the authority on anything? just because alice walker (lesbian) thinks something, doesn't make it true. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1247
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:21 am: |
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As Terence Howard ADMITTED on national TV (Conan O'Brien Show) he's only black because the constitution says he has to be because he has black blood, but he doesn't really consider himself black.
(The funny thing was that Conan didn't ask him shit about it....LOL...even he looked confused then quickly changed the subject).
One BIG difference is that blacks are black....mulattoes can choose not to identify as such and people won't make a big deal about it. Can you imagine if Wesley Snipes had said the same thing on national TV, what kind of uproar it would have caused?
And again....CONVENIENCE will make a person black. Mr. "I don't consider myself black" sure is black enough for the roles he chooses. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:26 am: |
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And as I've said here before, there are many girls in Mississippi (and probably other places) who are light-skinned and have TWO black parents, but who call themselves mulatto because their white boyfriends INSIST that they say so to make them more acceptable to their families. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:26 am: |
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Hardly an experience a dark skinned girl would have. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1408
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:45 am: |
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If Terrence Howard doesn't consider himself as Black then maybe he should start taking on some white movie roles. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1250
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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LOL.....Girl...you KNOW them white folks AIN'T HAVING THAT SHIT......
"A role for OUR people going to someone with noticeable BLACK BLOOD?"
Ain't gonna happen.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1410
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:59 am: |
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Of course not. I'm just saying that if he really thinks that he's not Black, then maybe he can convince some white people to cast him as Frosty the Snowman or something. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6335
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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How is Terance Howard different from the MYRIAD foks who will proudly assert having some (mostly unprovable) quarter or percentage of White or Indian blood WHILE enjoying every (momentary) advantage of being considered Black? |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 162
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Abm, I would say the outcome is a lot different to be primarily black looking and crowing about having non black ancestry then it is being visibly white with unnoticeable black ancestry. The ones who are visibly & primarily black looking and do that look like desperate wantabees. But whites still take pleasure in the expressed allegiance represented by those ashamed of their black ancestry and trying to escape it.
But the borderlines are able to enjoy the advantages (ongoing) of being 'mistaken' for white or considered ‘other’ (another non black category) when applying for housing, jobs, and critical daily interactions within a pro white culture. Then assert themselves as black at their own convenience to gain whatever momentary advantage that might bring. I heard that Halle bragged a long time ago that they get the best of both worlds. But a lot of them try to be coy about it by pretending otherwise.
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Fortified
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 312
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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This is precisely why there will never be any unity among black people. We can't even decide what 'black' is. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6343
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
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Shemika,
I recognize the distinctions you make. And they appear valid.
Yes. The Halle Berry's of the world do enjoy conveniently straddling the color fence.
But my point is if even the BLACKEST of us will revel in and glorify some alleged elements of non-Blackness within us, how can we rationalize reviling a Terance Howard simply because his non-Blackness is more manifest?
My basic point is this: ALL Black foks, of ALL shade/color, perpetuate and facilitate the duplicity and hypocrisy we all want to casually attribute to Howard. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6344
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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Fortified,
I think making such a distinction would be much LESS of an issue and priority IF there were NOT so much advantage and gratuity conferred upon lighter/whiter skin. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 948
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Halle's mixed ancestry is obvious. She looks like a woman with some Indian admixture. She could never pass for White.
Maybe there are just advantages period in looking "mixed"--and not always looking White. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6346
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
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BB123,
I guess the great advantage of being racially ambiguous is a broader body of people can see some of THEMSELVES reflected in your appearance. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1426
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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I think the answer to the initial post is more than obvious.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5046
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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Obviously, the black experience is not monolithic. But if you are not WHITE, the way other races react to you and the impact this has on your-day-to-day existence comprises the experience of a slave descendant in America. Condoleeza's black experience may be different from that of Fantasia Barrino, but behind her back whites still call her a nigger. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 520
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
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The gap in economics/status between light and dark-skinned Blacks is equivalent to the gap between Whites and Blacks in America. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3178
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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And Tonya...don't leave out the GENETIC gap that "sometimes" is even more of a division.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 521
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 01:10 pm: |
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What you may be called BEHIND YOUR BACK does not have as great an impact on "black experience" as the opportunities you may or may not be afforded.
(..sticks & stones...)
Kola, yep I agree. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 441
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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big lie-"the economic gap between light skin and dark skin blacks is equivalent to the gap between whites and blacks".
this is more nonsense coming from color-struck liars. where is the proof that there is an economic gap between light skin blacks and dark skin blacks? there is no proof.
some people will say anything to add fuel to the light/dark skin fire. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5051
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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I have a problem with this concocted criteria also. I'm inclined to think that the skin color of successful blacks in America runs the gamut from dark to light without any one shade dominating the other. If we look at the prison population the same color spectrum would be evident. The color of success is green, and AAs of all shades have figured out how to make money and rise above poverty. You know what they say about "the same fire that melts wax makes steel hard." It's all about being ambitious and persistent. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 524
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 02:54 pm: |
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CRIME AND PUNISHMENT: AND SKIN HUE TOO?
Abstract
This paper considers whether the disadvantages that accrue to black Americans with a dark skin hue also induce a transition into criminal activity—an outcome consistent with standard economic models of crime. We also examine whether or not prison terms are conditioned on skin hue. With data on black offenders in the state of Mississippi, we estimate Cox proportional hazard specifications of the transition into criminal activity, and find that it is conditioned on the darkness of skin hue. Our parameter estimates are consistent with a theoretical framework in which being black and having a dark skin hue induces a transition into criminal activity by limiting the set of legitimate opportunities for an individual. Given a conviction, we also find that the severity of punishment for black offenders as measured by the length of sentence is an increasing function of the
darkness of skin hue.
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Wrjk2RhQcq8J:www.aeaweb.org/annual_mtg_paper s/2006/0107_1015_1802.pdf+darker+skin+prison+term&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
COLORISM AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN WEALTH:
ABSTRACT
Black is not always black. Subtle distinctions in skin tone translate into significant differences in outcomes. Data on more than 15,000 households interviewed during the 1860 federal census exhibit sharp differences in wealth holdings between white, mulatto, and black households in the urban South. We document these differences, investigate the relationships between wealth and the recorded household characteristics, and decompose the wealth gaps into treatment and characteristic effects. In addition to higher wealth holdings of white households as compared to free African-Americans in general, there are distinct differences between both the characteristics of and wealth of free mulatto and black households, whether male- or female-headed. While black-headed households' mean predicted log wealth was only 20% of white-headed households', mulatto-headed households' was nearly 50% that of whites'. The difference between light- and dark-complexion is highly significant in semi-log wealth regressions. In the decomposition of this wealth differential, treatment effects play a large role in explaining the wealth gap between all subpopulation pairs.
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/179/12253.html?1152264335 |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 525
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 03:50 pm: |
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The Complexion Gap:
Abstract
Historians of U.S. race relations typically portray southern whites as reluctant to recognize or act favorably upon complexion-based differences within the African American community. Historians contend that mixed-race African Americans (mulattoes) received few advantages as a result of their partly white heritage. This paper shows that a there was a distinct complexion gap in late antebellum America. Mulatto men were more likely than black men to own farms or operate them as tenants, whereas black men were more likely to find employment as farm laborers throughout their lives. Quantile regressions also reveal a complexion gap in wealth accumulation. Mulattoes acquired more property than blacks, particularly at the upper end of the wealth distribution. Thus, an analysis of data included in the 1860 census implies a complex social hierarchy based on subtle gradations in skin color. At the upper end of the wealth distribution, light-complected mulattoes demonstrated a greater propensity to socioeconomic advancement than dark-complected blacks.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/8957.html
Consequences of Skin Tone Bias for African Americans:
In the early half of this century, a popular saying captured prevalent notions about the
importance of skin tone for Black people in the United States. “If you’re white, you’re all right;if you’re yellow, you’re mellow; if you’re brown, stick around; if you’re black, get back.” This rhyme illustrated the progressive devaluation associated with African Americans as skin tonebecame darker and further from the White ideal. In the 1950's and 1960's, social activism to end segregation and improve the quality of life for African Americans provided the impetus to reduce divisions based on skin tone. People began to proclaim that “Black is beautiful” and express greater pride in being Black. Through these different periods, researchers have investigated various ways in which skin tone may affect African Americans. Their studies reveal instances of bias against Black people of different skin tones, particularly by Whites and fellow African Americans. Though the preponderance of this literature presents findings that suggest light-skinned Blacks accrue benefits and dark-skinned African Americans experience costs due to skin tone bias, I urge the reader to be mindful that empirical research has not yet been conducted to investigate the drawbacks of light skin and the gains of dark skin for African Americans. Given this limitation, important insights can still be gained by surveying the literature. Two general areas of study, one focusing on the ways in which skin tone bias may be expressed and the other emphasizing the outcomes resulting from bias, have emerged in the literature. The majority of this paper will focus on outcomes, but first I will briefly address the ways in which skin tone bias may manifest. Skin tone bias may be expressed as a general, affect-driven preference or dislike for African Americans with specific skin tones or as stereotypes about individuals possessing light or dark skin. Specific preferences and dislikes have been found in Black children (Seeman, 1946; Porter, 1991), adolescents (Goering, 1971; Robinson & Ward, 1995), and adults (Bond & Cash, 1992; Hall, 1992). The general trend is a preference for light African Americans and dislike for dark individuals, though judgments may be shaped by the individual’s own skin tone
(Bond & Cash, 1992; Hall, 1992). Individuals justifying their judgments (Seeman, 1946;
Robinson & Ward, 1995) or attributing characteristics based upon skin tone (Marks, 1943; Anderson & Cromwell, 1977) reveal numerous positive stereotypes favoring light-skinned
individuals. Among other qualities, light African Americans are seen as intelligent, clean, and nice. Negative characteristics (i.e., dumb and dirty) are generally reserved for dark African Americans. These two aspects of skin tone bias, preference/dislike and stereotypes, are key elements in a process leading to different socio-economic and psychological outcomes for Black people in the United States. These outcomes span a wide variety of phenomena, including mate selection (Bond & Cash, 1992; Porter, 1991; Hughes & Hertel, 1990; Udry et al., 1969; Freeman et al., 1966; Drake & Cayton, 1945) and racial identity (Hughes & Hertel, 1990; Edwards, 1973; Ransford, 1970; Freeman et al., 1966). My focus will be on resource attainment (i.e., income, education, and occupational status or prestige) and psychological/social functioning.
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:HjPj_qx7evkJ:www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/prba/per spectives/spring1998/ktbrown.pdf+economic+consequence+skin+color&hl=en&gl=us&ct= clnk&cd=6
The Economic Consequences of Colorism and Complexion Homogamy in the Black Community:
Some Historical Evidence
Abstract:
Whether measured by social rank, occupational status or educational levels, newlyweds tend to resemble one another. The pattern of like marrying like, which anthropologists label status homogamy, is observed across time and place, and is true among both commoners and the nobility. This paper investigates complexion homogamy (light marries light and dark marries dark) in the African-American community. The evidence reveals a marked pattern of complexion homogamy dating back to the mid-nineteenth century. The evidence also reveals that the convention of complexion homogamy had meaningful economic ramifications. Complexion homogamous marriages among light-complected blacks resulted in households with higher literacy rates, higher occupational status, and greater wealth.
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Wkn4JHz-yTUJ:www.aeaweb.org/annual_mtg_paper s/2006/0107_1015_1804.pdf+economic+consequence+skin+color&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd =3 |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1413
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Tonya, could you please summarize. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3182
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 04:33 pm: |
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She already summarized to begin with:
The gap in economics/status between light and dark-skinned Blacks is equivalent to the gap between Whites and Blacks in America.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5056
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 07:27 pm: |
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These abstracts are obviously from "papers" that have been written on the subject by people with an agenda. I would like to know what the credential of the writers are. There is a lot of subterfuge and extrapolations contained in the claims made. And I think someone else could compile some figures and come up with a different conclusion. I still challenge the idea that most light people are successful and are most dark ones are not. Especially since brown people can't be classified as dark or light. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6360
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 07:52 pm: |
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Cynique,
It's EASY to wholly discount something that flauts your position. But the ONLY valid "challenge" you can present to what Tonya has presented is to do the WORK commensurate or superior to that which was done by the authors of those articles.
But, of course, you're Cynique. You're not bound by frivolous notions of statistics, empiricism, science, reasoning and crazy shyt like that. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 445
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:26 pm: |
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these papers that were presented by tonya prove nothing. of course one must question who the people are who are conducting these studies, and what there motivations are. so-called "facts" from the 1800's proves nothing. statistics can be presented by anyone and claimed to be true. only an intelligent person would question the people conducting the "research" and what their motivations are. let us remember the NAZIS conducted many studies. the NAZIS presented many "statistics", in order to prove their points. these NAZI studies were FILLED with empiricism, science, and reasoning. now, were these NAZI studies true because they presented these aspects of research? i think not.
what tonya presented proves nothing. unless you believe the NAZI "studies" also. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 949
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:28 pm: |
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ABM,
in Halle Berry's case, she's not racially ambiguous. So, I don't see how she brags about getting the best of both world's unless she just gets a free pass for not looking "too black".
Brown people mostly are counted as dark.
All you have to do is stroll through the ghetto, and you will see the darkest of the dark living in poverty.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5059
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:31 pm: |
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Certainly you don't think I have to find a study to disprove what is so obviously flawed - except to everyone who wants to use these papers to support their point of view. Get real. LMAO. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5060
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
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Browness is in the eye of the beholder, Brownbeauty. That's why this paper ain't worth the paper its written on. If you stroll through an upscale black neighborhood, are all the people their yellow? Hell no. Wazzup with you people????? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6362
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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BB123,
I don't know what "pass" Halle gets.
But it would be interesting to see what kinda attention she'd be getting if she were a few shades darker and had hair that was not as naturally straight. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 951
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 08:47 pm: |
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But if you go through the ghetto, you're MORE likely to see very very darkskinned Black people that normally you wouldn't see in an upscale neighborhood. I have family members that live in very low income neighborhoods, and you do not see as many lightskin Blacks as you do dark ones.
If you disagree with this, then you are just doing so to be very stubborn. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5062
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:20 pm: |
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Your evidence is anecdotal, Brownbeauty. I can cite my middle-class neighborhood as an example that disproves what you say about what color people live where. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 957
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:57 pm: |
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Bottomline, you don't see a lot of light complected Blacks in low income neighborhoods. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 958
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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No one gave a clear reason exactly why it's harder being visibly Black opposed to someone who is lighter and looks less Black.
Lightskin people complain about the struggles of not being accepted as Black--while darkskin people complain about the struggles of being too black--no one thinks this balances itself out?? Why does one STILL have it easier than the other? Explain. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 529
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 01:57 am: |
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Cinnique..
what you mean by “credential of the *writers*?” Not sure if I get that.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 531
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:19 am: |
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Oops! That was supposed to say: "what DO you mean by..."
Btw, the really upscale black neighborhoods in Philadelphia are majority light-skinned. However, as BB pointed out, the low income neighborhoods, projects & ghettos have virtually no "white looking' blacks and very few light skinned ones.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5064
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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When I mention credentials,Tonya. I mean what field is the writer in and how has he or she distinguished themselves in their field and are they looked upon as an authority by their colleagues? Or is this just maybe a masters thesis written by someone who has an axe to grind and lacks objectivity. Whatever. I am signing off on this debate because its premise is too ambiguous and its criteria too subjective. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3192
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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No Cynique, you're signing off...because you can't stand the heat.
Ever heard of "high yellow" Cedric Herring and his crew of Social Scientists?
__________
Skin Deep: How Race and Complexion Matter in the "Color-Blind" Era
From Booklist:
This collection of essays by various social scientists focuses on inter- and intrarace color consciousness in this era of purported color blindness. Though the primary emphasis is on African American and Latino subjects, the contributors also explore color consciousness among Southeast Asians and Brazilians. Some of the most interesting essays center on Americans of biracial heritage and the political fallout from their struggle for self-definition. All of the contributors confirm that "color" matters, with value weighted in favor of lightness. The biracial struggle to identify as "other than black" reflects internal and social forces that favor lighter-colored skin. This quest for status suggests that the African American fight against second-class citizenship in America may be supplanted by a fight against third-class citizenship. This work is a worthy primer on the import of race and color in America, but its greatest value may be as an indicator of America's future direction on the issue. Vernon Ford
Cedric Herring is Professor in the Department of Sociology at the University of Illinois at Chicago and in the Institute of Government and Public Affairs at the University of Illinois. Dr. Herring is former President of the Association of Black Sociologists, and he was the Founding Director of the Institute for Research on Race and Public Policy at UIC. He has published widely on topics such as social policy (e.g., social welfare and affirmative action), political sociology, labor force issues and policy, stratification and inequality, and the sociology of African Americans. He is the author of Splitting the Middle: Political Alienation, Acquiescence, and Activism and he is the editor of African Americans and the Public Agenda: The Paradoxes of Public Policy and co-editor of Empowerment in Chicago: Grassroots Participation in Economic Development and Poverty Alleviation.
Verna Keith is Chair of the Department of Sociology at Arizona State University. She has two main areas of research interest: (1) the study of how stress affects health and emotional well-being among African Americans and the elderly, and (2) issues related to minority access to health care. She is currently investigating gender differences in the effects of chronic stressors such as marital problems on the mental health of African Americans. She also has a project that focuses on skin-color, gender, and self-concept among African Americans. In addition, she recently completed a project that investigated socioeconomic status and use of health care among African Americans. She is a co-editor of In and Out of Our Right Minds: African American Women's Mental Health.
Hayward Derrick Horton is Associate Professor of Sociology at the State University of New York at Albany. Professor Horton specializes in demography and race and ethnicity. He has published over 20 articles on topics such as: the demography of rural Black families; differences in black-white levels of home ownership; population change and the employment status of college-educated blacks; race, ethnicity and levels of employment; the demography of black entrepreneurship; and the feminization of poverty. Professor Horton developed the first and only sociological model of black community development. He is currently co-authoring a book on the model entitled, Rebuilding Black Communities: Black Community Development in Contemporary America. Professor Horton has held leadership positions in the American Sociological Association, the Southern Sociological Society, the Rural Sociological Society, and the Society for Applied Sociology. He is currently Chair of the American Sociological Association's Section on Race and Ethnic Minorities, and he is currently President of the Association of Black Sociologists.
Cedric and Verna are "high yellow", CYNIQUE---but like Malcolm X and Toni Morrison, these are the kind of lightskinned folks who truly love THE BLACK RACE and would sacrifice what was forced on them (yellow skin) to re-align with their own people. They KNOW why the WHITES created yellow skin---strategically.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5065
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
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OK, all of you members of the colorist squad, you've presented some legitimate proof to support your claim. And I acccept it. Funny thing is everything you guys claims works to my advantage. And I know all of you will forgive me for saying, I'm glad I'm light-skinned. And I don't blame dark folks for being full of self hate. They ain't got a chance here in America, have they??? tsk-tsk. But, actually, kinda seems like the strategically-planned creation of yellow skin didn't pan out so successfully, Kola, since you claim most slave descendants are brown. Now don't pee on yourself, just go find another soap box for your divisive hypocritical, self-serving, demogogory. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5066
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:28 pm: |
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And on closer perusal of these studies and references, Kola, you and your usual deviousness have done nothing but offer up selective diversions to try and legitimize the outdated studies posted here, and the folks you cited did not write the papers being challenged or did the authorities you referred to write any definitive ariticles proving that most light people live in upscale neighborhoods and most dark skinned people live in the ghetto. These are your unfounded conclusions. But I'm still signing off on the subject, because neither you nor I know what the REAL deal is when it comes to how color determines where black people live. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6365
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:35 pm: |
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Kola, Tonya, BB123 & PBG,
It's POINTLESS to attempt to have a SERIOUS debate with some who quite conveniently chooses to not believe ANYTHING that does not support her position.
I mean, really, how EASY is it to discredit someone without a scintilla of an evidence, statistics, etc.?
Cynique can often appear to be very glib and clever. But NOTICE that she will NEVER attempt to back up her position with the results of any study, quotes from authorities, etc.
Feel free to argue with her as much as you like. But were I you, I wouldn't take her rebuts and criticism seriously. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 533
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:48 pm: |
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Abm:
Trust me. I'm not taking anyone who believes that 2004 is outdated for a sociological study seriously.
Cynnique:
Your 1:34 post may be funny ha! ha! But what’s funny in an ironic sense is that these abstracts came with links to full texts which provided references and the credentials you inquired about. Had you opened the links up and looked (before you spoke) this info would have easily been found. So you see. If all is what it seems, what’s funny is how you had so much to say about “obviously flawed” studies that you “obviously” did not read. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5067
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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Do you really consider the authorities Kola posted backed up her specific claim, ABM? Furthermore anyone is free to challenge a controversial subject by just calling attention to fallacies contained in it. A lot of people are not enslaved to the catch-all source of "studies" because everybody but you knows that studies can be slanted and statistics manipulated and its naive to think that what they contend is not debatable. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6367
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 03:04 pm: |
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Tonya,
Good for you, babe.
Cynique,
Whenever you can reference to a SINGLE medium, study, quote or authority that backs ANY position you assert here, hit a brotha up.
'Til then...*yarn* |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5068
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 03:10 pm: |
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Every year studies show a differerent result about such things as to whether coffee is detrimental to your health, or whether or not aspirin is harmful and whether hormone therapy can cause cancer in women or whether or not ADD is more prevelant in boys than girls, or whether most Americans believe Adam and Eve really existed. And I admit to having preconceived notions about what you colorists claim because I don't place a lot of stock in your whining and bitching since most of your pouting is grounded in emotional resentment. And I'm sure you feel the same way about me. So screw studies. And you, too. LMAO. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5069
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 03:17 pm: |
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Haven't you figured out by now, ABM. that I feel no need whatsoever to have you concur with what I spout. Now go back to sacrificing your independence of thought to relying on what "omniscient" studies show. Don't place any value on the reality of what you observe for yourself. Woooooo. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6368
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 03:24 pm: |
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Cynique,
The ONLY one who's "pouting" and "whining" here is YOU. Which almost always occur when your hoe card has been pulled.
Face it: You're an intellectual lightweight pretending to be otherwise.
Cynique: "So screw studies. And you, too."
Thanks. But no thanks. I'd rather "screw" someone I might enjoy doing it with.
But if you'll pay, I'll let you watch. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5070
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 03:48 pm: |
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But, ABM. you didn' back up your claims about me with a study. How did you expland your small mind to reach a conclusion on your own. Must be taking my advice to try and think for yourself. Good boy. BTW, I've never claimed to an intellecet. And you shouldn't either, just in case your thinking about it. Stick to being a pompous dispenser of malaprops. heh-heh. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5071
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 04:00 pm: |
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And thanks, ABM, for the offer to let me watch you screw something - or someone. Let me know where to send my quarter. I can hardly wait to watch you try and get it up, although it's always sad to see a grown man cry. Buh Bye. ROTFLOL. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 534
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 05:06 pm: |
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Cynnique,
"Every year studies show a differerent result about such things as to whether coffee is detrimental to your health, or whether or not aspirin is harmful and whether hormone therapy can cause cancer in women or whether or not ADD is more prevelant in boys than girls, or whether most Americans believe Adam and Eve really existed."
Where’s your evidence that the kind of studies I cited have yielded different results by someone else, or have been proven wrong (by something more than your scientific arguments please)? Again, how are they “outdated?” |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5072
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 06:25 pm: |
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Well, Tonya, since you assume that these reports support what you claim, I will assume that when a report is littered with qualifying phrases like "could suggest" and "might lead us to believe" an "1860 census implies" and "be mindful that empirical research has not been conducted," and "analysis consistent with a theoretical framework" and "back during the 1960s" one can deduce that the conclusions reached in these studies are based on very tenative propositions. Implicit in these papers is what can possibly be inferred. One doesn't need another study to determine that these papers are not definitive. They are interesting but not infallible. Recently I visted my daughter in her workplace. She has a position in the upper mangagement of a large utility company located in Chicago, the third largest city in America, and I was pleased to see how most of her co-workers were black, but there was certainly no preponderance of light-skinned people in the mix. The people came in all colors. Who is to say that this enviroment isn't a microcosm of how color is manifested in corporate America, and how, in turn, is reflected in the better class neighborhoods where these people live. Go ahead and claim that mostly everybody in the ghetto is dark-skinned, but I remain reluctant to agree that most residents in the nice areas are light-skinned. They are too many variables. And what we really have here is a generation gap. Your generation is one who focuses on information gathering and data collecting; Google has become your Oracle. My generation tends to filter their conclusions through what their experiences teach them. And so it goes. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 535
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 07:52 pm: |
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"Well, Tonya, since you assume that these reports support what you claim, I will assume that when a report is littered with qualifying phrases like "could suggest" and "might lead us to believe" an "1860 census implies" and "be mindful that empirical research has not been conducted," and "analysis consistent with a theoretical framework" and "back during the 1960s" one can deduce that the conclusions reached in these studies are based on very tenative propositions. Implicit in these papers is what can possibly be inferred. One doesn't need another study to determine that these papers are not definitive."
First of all, thanks for NOT answering my question. Now, do you HONESTLY think that you could find a raw study done by people with the type of credentials that WERE provided, on an issue that is just starting to be explored...which isn't littered with those kind of phrases? In other words, what study gives the impression that the findings aren't "tentative" or that everything written is "definitive?" Bottom line: the arguments you made can be said to just about any study...mainly because the phrases you cited are always written that way in the raw reports to leave room for further findings. Finally, I'm not asking you to produce another document to prove that these results aren't definitive. Nobody, including the authors, said that they were. And, frankly, you won't find a credible document that would aim to do such, as it is well known that studies don't offer definitive answers in the first place.
...But of course, you knew all this.
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Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 571
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 08:22 pm: |
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Alice Walker (1973):
"I think there is probably as much difference between the life of a black black woman and a 'high yellow' black woman as between a 'high yellow' black woman and a white woman. And I am worried, constantly, about the hatred the black black woman encounters within black society. To me, the black black woman is our essential mother--the blacker she is the more us she is--and to see the hatred that is turned on her is enough to make me despair, almost entirely, of our future as a people."
ALICE WALKER: Discredited new-age cRaCkpOt |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 572
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 08:25 pm: |
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"Bottomline, you don't see a lot of light complected Blacks in low income neighborhoods."
There are reigonal differences in the U.S. In New Orleans, because of the colorist bullshit, practically all of the poor blacks were dark; in Ohio, or New York City, that situation might be vastly different. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5074
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 09:37 pm: |
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I don't have to justify my position on this subject just to meet your expectations, Tonya. It's a controversial paper and, as such, can be parsed. I do not swallow its findings hook, line, and sinker. So what? If you do, then I hope you don't choke. So how's things where you live? Are all your light-skinned neighbors intimidating you? Huh? Huh?
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 450
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
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these lunatics will just not stop. i don't understand what they want or are trying to achieve? its a neverending stream of posts whining about light skin people. it never ends. i suppose some of these posters feel so threatened by light skin people, that their only way to deal with it is whine and cry over and over and over again. i really think these people have lost touch with reality. they make it sound as if light skin people are living in crystal palaces, while all dark skin people are in the field picking cotton. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3193
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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Cynique,
What the hell are you talking about?
The following BOOK encompasses detailed studies on everything was covered in the reports posted by Tonya, but by Social Scientists who look more like YOU than us.
Skin Deep: How Race and Complexion Matter in the "Color-Blind" Era
From Booklist:
This collection of essays by various social scientists focuses on inter- and intrarace color consciousness in this era of purported color blindness. Though the primary emphasis is on African American and Latino subjects, the contributors also explore color consciousness among Southeast Asians and Brazilians. Some of the most interesting essays center on Americans of biracial heritage and the political fallout from their struggle for self-definition. All of the contributors confirm that "color" matters, with value weighted in favor of lightness. The biracial struggle to identify as "other than black" reflects internal and social forces that favor lighter-colored skin. This quest for status suggests that the African American fight against second-class citizenship in America may be supplanted by a fight against third-class citizenship. This work is a worthy primer on the import of race and color in America, but its greatest value may be as an indicator of America's future direction on the issue. Vernon Ford
AUTHORS OF THIS BOOK:
Cedric Herring is Professor in the Department of Sociology at the University of Illinois at Chicago and in the Institute of Government and Public Affairs at the University of Illinois. Dr. Herring is former President of the Association of Black Sociologists, and he was the Founding Director of the Institute for Research on Race and Public Policy at UIC. He has published widely on topics such as social policy (e.g., social welfare and affirmative action), political sociology, labor force issues and policy, stratification and inequality, and the sociology of African Americans. He is the author of Splitting the Middle: Political Alienation, Acquiescence, and Activism and he is the editor of African Americans and the Public Agenda: The Paradoxes of Public Policy and co-editor of Empowerment in Chicago: Grassroots Participation in Economic Development and Poverty Alleviation.
Verna Keith is Chair of the Department of Sociology at Arizona State University. She has two main areas of research interest: (1) the study of how stress affects health and emotional well-being among African Americans and the elderly, and (2) issues related to minority access to health care. She is currently investigating gender differences in the effects of chronic stressors such as marital problems on the mental health of African Americans. She also has a project that focuses on skin-color, gender, and self-concept among African Americans. In addition, she recently completed a project that investigated socioeconomic status and use of health care among African Americans. She is a co-editor of In and Out of Our Right Minds: African American Women's Mental Health.
Hayward Derrick Horton is Associate Professor of Sociology at the State University of New York at Albany. Professor Horton specializes in demography and race and ethnicity. He has published over 20 articles on topics such as: the demography of rural Black families; differences in black-white levels of home ownership; population change and the employment status of college-educated blacks; race, ethnicity and levels of employment; the demography of black entrepreneurship; and the feminization of poverty. Professor Horton developed the first and only sociological model of black community development. He is currently co-authoring a book on the model entitled, Rebuilding Black Communities: Black Community Development in Contemporary America. Professor Horton has held leadership positions in the American Sociological Association, the Southern Sociological Society, the Rural Sociological Society, and the Society for Applied Sociology. He is currently Chair of the American Sociological Association's Section on Race and Ethnic Minorities, and he is currently President of the Association of Black Sociologists.
THESE SOCIAL SCIENTISTS....and their collective works....refer with tons of examples that PROVE the arguments and points that of the articles that TONYA posted.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5075
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
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WHERE in what you have posted again does it say that the economic status of a neighborhood can be determined by the light-skin color of blacks who live in it????? Go somewhere and sit down, Kola. What you claim doesn't carry any more weight than these ambiguous studies you are trying to put your spin on. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 536
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 11:53 pm: |
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"I do not swallow its findings hook, line, and sinker. So what? If you do, then I hope you don't choke."
It's not about you swallowing anything, dear. I could give an ant's hiney if you buy any of it or not. It's just that you made several very asinine statements with way too much confidence and so I had a lot of fun bursting a few titanic sized holes in your I-don't-know-what-the-hail-I'm-talkin-about bubble! Enjoy the rest of your holiday sweet thang. 
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5076
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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Don't take any bows, babygirl. Nothing you said has validated your oft-repeated contention. I will admit, however, that I took liberties and assumed that you didn't live in the ghetto. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 537
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:32 am: |
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Btw, revealing the fact that you don't even know WHAT STUDIES ARE was the part that was the most comical (LMGBAO).
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5077
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:40 am: |
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At least I had sense enough to put them in perspective, Ton-Ton, unlike you, who thought you were going to blow everybody away with some "studies" that did nothing but prove how guillible and desperate you are. ROTFLOL. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 455
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:35 am: |
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i wonder how long until these insecure light skin-dark skin cry babies finally realize that light skin people are here to stay and not going anywhere. they could post a million alleged "studies", and continue to whine about light skin-dark-dark skin, but what do they think this is going to do? make light skin people disappear? some of these posters are like children who can't get their way (mainly to somehow weaken or eliminate light skin people from black american life), so they bitch and pat each other on the back, anytime one of them makes a post whining about how "light skin people have this, dark skin people don't have that". its all just so stupid.
all of you posters that keep crying about light skin/dark skin blah,blah,blah. just remember there is NOTHING you can do to change this "alleged" that you are so fixated on.
so continue to post and cry, babies. what the hell are you gonna do about the existence of light skin people? your not gonna do a dam thing. get over it. light skin people are not going anywhere. |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 173
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 03:03 am: |
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Lil_flea, If your skank azz is light skinned then you are a good example of a f'd up light skinned nikka who needs to be eliminated from black American life. All you do is disrespect and scorn anyone (especially black women) who physically represents blackness and make up ridiculous fantasies obsessing about how dark skinned people envy light skinned people. If anything you are absolutely pitiful. But NO, your assumptions are waaaay off. If anything is hated it is your arrogant narcissistic buffoonery. You are like a festering sore on the black race’s azz. You know the rednecks don't fully accept your stupid azz so you resentfully try to take it out on dark skinned black females because you're nothing but a spineless, child molesting ugly coward. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 184
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 8 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 07:43 am: |
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It's time to THROW the light-skinned so called BLACK baby out with the bath water and finally say good-riddence. Finally get rid of the curse. BLACK is NOT WHITE and WHITE is NOT BLACK. Let the so called "White Blacks", you call light skinned blacks, go and become SECOND class WHITES. If they are rejected by the White community, THEY can form their own ethnic group. YOU are BLACK only if YOU are BLACK. YOU can no longer RAP your self BLACK. PERIOD. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 962
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 07:55 am: |
|
"There are reigonal differences in the U.S. In New Orleans, because of the colorist bullshit, practically all of the poor blacks were dark; in Ohio, or New York City, that situation might be vastly different."
Stop making excuses.
Right next to Ohio. It's the SAME there, all the poor Blacks are dark; got family that lives there. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6371
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 09:11 am: |
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Kola,
I just watched a panel discussion on "America's Black Forum" (via TV1) about colorism amongst African Americans (The panel included Julian Bonds.) All but one of the panelists (Star Parker) agreed that colorism is still very much a potent issue amongst us.
Surely there are demographical differences (e.g., geographical, economical, generational, etc.) that effect the degree to which colorism manifests and influences Black life. And certainly individual talent, skill and effort can prevail. But no sound observer of this nation (and world) can argue that darker people do not have a more difficult time than whiter/lighter people.
Tonya,
When Cynique cannot offer a fair, impartial and cogent defense for her position - which is, like, 99.99% of the time - she resorts to ad hominem attacks, name calling, etc.
Sometimes, I think she knows more than she says, and is simply intellectually lazy.
Other times I think the baseless disparagement is all she's got.
*shrug*
Either way, I've mostly grown tired of her act. So, at least for now, I'll mostly ignore it.
But I'll continue to enjoy how you've discredited her (and her type). And will now/then tender my assistance in that effort. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 963
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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It's very bold for someone of Cynique's age and experience to be so stubborn & not acknowledge colorism.
And its very annoying, & downright wrong for her to label others "colorists" for simply acknowledging the TRUTH. We did not build this system & we don't control it.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5078
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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Oh give it up, ABM. It's a wonder you didn't end your post with the phrase "I have spoken". Nevermind that Tonya was so busy patting herself of the back that she wouldn't acknowledge that there are different types of studies and some are deemed to be "definitive". And the one in question was not one that was tacking a new subject as she tried to claim.
And, I could get an Oscar for my "act", ABM, but you, wouldn't even rate a nomination for yours because they don't have a category for "half-baked hams who are full of themselves" Snort. If you have Tonya's back, she'll soon notice a shift when she become weighted down with carrying the load for you and your pathetic attempts at being profound. Like tellin us that colorism exists and that light people do have an advantage over darker ones. Wow! What a revelation! Of course you don't broach the subject of whether the majority of people in a black middle class neighborhood are light-skinned, which is the contention I had a problem with. (But I guess you were waiting for Kola's response so you could regurgitate it. ) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5079
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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Just craw back in Kola's head. Brownbeauty. You're grasping at straws in trying to discredit me, resorting to the tactic of putting words in my mouth and then refuting them. I have NEVER said that colorism didn't exist. My point in this discussion was that you and your brigade were not giving middle-class dark-skinned people their props. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5080
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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And I'm disappointed that you have mischaracterized the dynamics of this colorism debate, Anunaki3600. Certain dark-skinned people are trying to co-op the community of slave descendants in America. They want to arbitrate who is what, and embracing this idea is what floats their boats. If light skinned blacks seceded from the race, dark skin one wouldn't have anything to do but argue among themselves, eventually kickin out people whose hair was not nappy enough or whose noses were too pointed. Things will eventually even out, and "if you're brown, you stick around" is a phrase that just might be prophetic. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 540
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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Thank you ABM. I’m with you all the way. As for Cynnique, let's give her a couple of more decades lol. 'Cause despite what she says, I found alot of this credible as well. Doctors use phrases like "consistent with" all the time. Because neither they nor any other scientist can say with a 100 percent certainty what some things are. Even DNA tests can only estimate outcomes (though usually to a high degree of certainty). So if your doctor were to give you a serious diagnosis would you go for a second opinion? Maybe. But after receiving the same diagnosis from five different doctors would you begin to take it seriously? Honestly, I suspect most people would. Likewise five different studies headed by several different scientists saying basically the same thing is quite compelling. (And that's not even close to half of what’s out there on this subject.)
P.S., I hope you and your wife (and every body else on this board!!!!) are enjoying your holiday. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5081
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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So what's your point, Tonya? Does what you say substantiate your claim about the make-up of middle-class black neighborhoods??? And since you're being so analytical why didn't you note how clueless ABM is when it comes to being guilty of what he accuses others of in regard to disparaging people who don't agree with him. I repeat: what we have here is a generation gap. People my age approach things differently from people your age. Our studies originate in the school of experience. Us old folk take most things with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. Happy holiday to you, too. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3195
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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It's time to THROW the light-skinned so called BLACK baby out with the bath water and finally say good-riddence. Finally get rid of the curse. BLACK is NOT WHITE and WHITE is NOT BLACK. Let the so called "White Blacks", you call light skinned blacks, go and become SECOND class WHITES. If they are rejected by the White community, THEY can form their own ethnic group. YOU are BLACK only if YOU are BLACK. YOU can no longer RAP your self BLACK. PERIOD.
Annunaki, my master, my husband...I kiss your precious feet.
My true son is about to be re-born from the ashes.
I feel pregnant with 100 lions!
This is a painful decision; to rebuke my white children--but the meter (the meter, not meteor--but meter) is not matching the intensity of the African sun.
The Black man MUST be born.
He MUST be born! And born as himself---in the image of God, as he came into this world.
Yes, I have cooking to do today, but YES...you have said the thing that breaks my heart.
You have said the thing that breaks my heart!
What a shame the mulattoes let it come this.
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Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:14 pm: |
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throw out malcom with the bath water? u guys are not serious! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5082
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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So Long, Kola. Good Riddance. Now go find a deserted island where you and yours can settle down and get back to square one. Ta-Ta. |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 174
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:48 pm: |
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Malcolm was unique and from an era that is long gone, he isn't alive today so he has nothing to do with this. Nor was he anything like the Lil-fleas out there today whose heads are swelled from time spent being indoctrinated and romanced by white folks. So when they come around blacks they act just like a scornful redneck then foolishly think the reason they're disliked is due to jealousy. Malcolm never put down blacks that way or scorned dark skinned bw. I'm sure to the Lil-zes of the world Malcolm’s wife was subhuman for being too black. These people do nothing but sabotage the black race by trying to exalt them selves over darker blacks and practicing white supremacy that way. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5083
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:13 pm: |
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See ya, Shemika. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3205
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:15 pm: |
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Exactly, Shemika.
And we are "Generalizing" here---as there isn't time to do a case by case commentary.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3206
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:16 pm: |
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It's amazing...no, startling....to realize how little "light skinned" blacks really KNOW about Black people's feelings and what they talk about when they're alone.
They really don't have a clue.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5084
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:24 pm: |
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And you have soooo much insight into what the feelings of light-skinned people are. Puleeze. Here we go again with the victimization thing. Have you scoped out an island yet???? Hurry up. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:31 pm: |
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kola...u get on a very high horse lecture me about liberian slavery and when corrected u simply abandon the thread.high-tailed it outta town-but whats instructive is that u invoke a 400/500 year history when it suits u and now u support yer friends facile argument that malcom is dead and from a different era and so doesnt matter.thats pretty disingenious.
shemika, i see where u and ze have a running argument-dont let your dislike of ze twist yer logic.malcom was/is unique (like ali - still alive and lighter than many, like angela and so on)becos he stood up, spoke out and resisted. he was unique to v black people as well as those of a lighter hue. the guy that the state of california executed earlier in the year wasnt ...u know wot...u guys just carry on...its pointless! |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 175
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 03:09 pm: |
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Crymeariver, I don't think you get it; no one said Malcolm’s contributions didn't matter today, we are talking about racism supported by light skins toward darker skinned blacks. When I see one who sincerely has the same values as Malcolm had I'll respect them as such. But we are talking about those today who practice white supremacy and try to exalt themselves over darker blacks by disrespecting them. Years ago during Malcolm’s era a lot of light skins became conscious about blackness- at least outwardly.
Now, light skin blacks are mostly out for themselves. A lot of them are being raised by ww, mating with them or picking up their ideals. And as a result many either don't even want to be considered black or they wish to redefine being black as the same as looking like Mariah with no identifiable genetic standard for being black.
I've heard recordings of Malcolm and HE didn't believe in that. He even opposed mating outside the race and I recall hearing hem speak of how weak blacks become when there is too much cream in their coffee. And I’m sure that metaphor could be applied in more ways then one. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
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shemika:
both u and kola exhibit similar tendencies in that u assume that only u know the truth. dont be concerned by whether i get it or dont...concern yerself with whether u get it.
u seem to believe tha the blacker u are the more righteous u are. and that my dear is garbage. history is replete with examples which show that very black people are out for themselves. and unless u can support your assertions with some type of empirical data....they remain assertions.i think the world is egg shaped.
there are many black folk who dont want to see themselves as black, its not confined to light skinned people, its a generalized reality. many black folk dont like how they look and wish they did not look as they do.thats been pretty well documented and fanon spent a long time studying the phenomenon.
light skinned black people dont practice white supremacy they simply dont because by definition they just aint white.black skinned people cannot practice white supremacy either becos again by definition they are black. but both maybe agents of white supremacy and indeed at times both are...but neither group has a monopoly on agency.
u are disgracing and disrespecting many people who have given their life in struggle and that is not something for an intelligent and progressive person (of any color) to do.
further u are wriggling and not very convincingly at that. in the last post but one, u unequivocally state; "Malcolm was unique and from an era that is long gone, he isn't alive today so he has nothing to do with this." then in the last post u state;
"no one said Malcolm�s contributions didn't matter today,".....again u simply cannot have it both ways.
and as for what malcom believed and did not belive i can see that have a partial understanding of the great man...the malcom that cmae back from mecca was a different malcom to the malcom of elijah muhamad, who was in turn different to malcom littlethe common criminal.
so im asking u to stick a pin...and leave this silly argument about so called colorism becos its a distraction from the real question as to who or what is shafting black (any definition of black that u care to use)people . |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 178
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 04:42 pm: |
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Maybe standing up again racism aimed at dark skinned blacks is silly to you and in that case you should be the one to take your own advice and stay out of the conversation. I will address whatever I please. The reason I say you don't get it, is because you don't want to get it. You are just like Lil_ze who sees no problem in the actions of racist acting borderlines, but wish to lord over darker blacks and tell them how to think. Apparently though, it’s entirely acceptable for people like Lil_ze to refer to dark skinned blacks as inferior dogs. Such so called black rednecks only set standards for dark skinned blacks just like their masters. To people like you it’s only a disgrace when someone dark questions such behavior exhibited by light skinned individuals. You need to take your white supremacist BS to someone else because I don't worship at that alter – those who act like a redneck are a disgrace. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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now that we have come down to nuts and bolts u sidestep the substantive issues in my post which are:
1. u cant have it both ways
2. the wriggle (not very good)
3. a partial understanding of malcom's
contribution
4. who or what is shafting black (any definition u
wish to use) people?
5. disrespecting many people who have given their
lives so that u and i can live a better life.
peace! |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 180
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 05:16 pm: |
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It’s too bad you're so pathetic you resort to the same tactics as Lil_ze by making reference to dialogue that didn't occur to justify your unfounded claims. You’re guilty of the same types of racist acts as he, which is why you’re incapable of acknowledging them. You’re so fake. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 05:30 pm: |
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ok so im fake and pathetic. im just like ze etc. im a racist and so on and so forth. i usually find that when people start calling me names its time to leave them alone. but ive gotta complement u-8 posts and u already know everything there is to know about me. u are too clever.
have a nice day!
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 456
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 06:23 pm: |
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talk about making reference to dialogue that never happened. what a liar shemika is. i NEVER referred to dark skin blacks as 'inferior dogs'. i just NEVER said that.
how jealous some of these color obsessed lunatics really are. they will even LIE, in order to paint this (phony) picture that dark skin blacks are somehow being looked down on by other black people.
boo-hoo-hoo, "dark skin people don't get enough attention", boo-hoo-hoo "light skin women get praised for their beauty", boo-hoo-hoo "people don't praise dark skin women for being beautiful", boo-hoo-hoo, "i want dark skin women to be called beautiful too", boo-hoo-hoo, "im gonna fight against racism aimed at 'dark skin' blacks".
hey bitter, jealous lunatics. nobody cares about this non-sense you are so fixated on. you are not going to be able to do ANYTHING to change this situation (if it even exists). so get used to seeing light skin people (especially females) all over the place.
you are not going to be able to "throw light skin people out, with the bath water". im sure many of you lunatics would love to do this, but you can't. and you NEVER will be able to. you can keep bitching about something you cannot change, or you can just accept it and focus on something else. the choice is yours.
by the way, i thought malcolm x's wife (betty) was UGLY. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 457
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 06:39 pm: |
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you must be really INSANE to think you will ever be able to "throw" light skin "babies" away with the "bath water". how stupid can you be. there will be no separation of "light skin" and "dark skin black", because all of us (black people) have light skin and dark skin blacks in our families. so all of you who have these "nazi-like" fantasies, of one day having a separate category for light skin black people, you can keep DREAMING. its never going to happen. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 459
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 09:07 pm: |
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get used to it!!!!!!! |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 183
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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"ok so im fake and pathetic. im just like ze etc. im a racist and so on and so forth. i usually find that when people start calling me names its time to leave them alone. but ive gotta complement u-8 posts and u already know everything there is to know about me. u are too clever."
Just like you were so insightful you were able to make inferences about comments I never made. And I agree, your cowardly approach reveals how fake you are.
Lil_ze,
No one is concerned about light skinned females but you, you're the stupid buffoon obsessing over them and bringing them up. We bring up colorism which is not limited to females. You need to come up with something better than that. NOT ALL DARK SKINNED PEOPLE GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR IDIOLS. So get over it or go start a web site. And we all know you prefer to sneak around to molest children and your pretense obsession with women is a cover. Pedophile.
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 461
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 12:47 am: |
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shemika, you could call me a pedophile all day (that seems to be the only thing you can say), and it makes no difference to me. the bottom line is you are a bitter, jealous female, with alot of pent-up frustration regarding skin color. thats the TRUTH. so continue to call me a pedophile if it makes you feel good. who is this "we" who knows i prefer to "sneak around and molest children"? i would think if someone had proof someone was molesting children, they would bring their evidence to the authorities.
what a sad, bitter, black female you are. |
Shemika
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shemika
Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 03:25 am: |
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You sure don't have any place accusing someone else of being redundant. The topic could be about the moon and you'll inject your insane accusations that dark skinned bw are jealous of light skinned ones. Because that’s all YOU are capable of talking about. And not only have you confessed to being a filthy pedophile in the Foxie Brown thread, your superficial, sexist, objectification of bw in general backs it up. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6375
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 07:27 am: |
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Tonya,
Very few (if ANYTHING) is 100% provable. Most everything we know is the product of 'degrees' of certainty and, mostly, uncertainty.
Thus, a wise person formulates an opinion and position based on a combination of his-her experiences, observations and education. 'Course, even THOSE will be the product of our inate desires, biases and what we can interpret and/or retain.
When I combine all the above, what I feel and know is that white/lighter skin enjoys privileges over blacker/darker skin. But there's much study and interpretation that needs to be done to glean the degree to which such manifests. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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abm:
i follow your reasoning on the "facts" and accept the notion of interpretation. yet if i assert the world is egg shaped or flat then u would admit that i wll be way out there on a limb..i think most people would see that.
but thats not the big point. i have a great difficulty with this argument around so called colorism and it is this. when your average white guy looks out there and see a light skinned black person im willing to wager that he doesnt see light skin, he see's black. historically opressors have used race, culture and color to pursue their own ends and so they have made some say house slaves and others field slaves. and this i think ties into your thesis about priviliges enjoyed by lighter skinned people. but in my view objectively whether u worked in the field or in the house u were/are still a slave.
it seems to me then that the important points for debate are the objective circumstances.
i say this becos i suspect that it is to the benefit of those who oppress to have black, brown, high color etc at each others thrats over degress of blackness rather than discussing the objective circumstances which constrain their lives. taken to an extreme we can get a rwanda where beligians fanned flames of racial superority thereby engendering the circumstances whereby one group of black people went about killing the other while the int'l community did nothing. my guess is they did nothing because all that was seen was a bunch of black folk killing each other.
if colorism is a real issue for discourse and i am not convinced that it s...then we all ought to be aware that it suits those who oppress us to have us at each others throats because it distracts attention from what is actually being done.
thanks. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6386
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Crymeariver,
You have your opinions about what White foks see of and think about Black foks. And I have mine. That's why I think reasonable people like us would want to consider the results of studies on the subject.
Sure there will always be biases, errors, misinterpretations and the like within most studies. But still if the methods are sound, some useful information can be gleaned from them.
To me, it's really an issue of whether or not you believe true is worth pursuing. I happened to think that we’d benefit from knowing whether and the degree to which one’s physical proximity to Whiteness influences one’s future.
If a lightskinned African American with a Bachelor’s degree is considered more employable than a dark-skinned African American with a Master’s degree, shouldn’t we want to – NEED to – KNOW that?
What’s the point of our educating ourselves if we choose to ignore what affects US?
I don't fear this divine/conquer scenario you allude to. I much more fear being ignorant. Because to me, THAT is the greatest weakness of all.
Btw: I think the world IS somewhat egg shaped. At least I seem to recall reading such somewhere. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3208
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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This is the very reason that I don't speak to Crymeariver:
if colorism is a real issue for discourse and i am not convinced that it s...
This is the typical bullshit that is said by Yellow People, and yet this bitch doesn't understand why I....who was put up for adoption by her own grandmother for being "black"----GIVEN...HANDED OVER to a "White Man" from Unicef--for being "too dark".....don't want to be a nice little dark girl and stand in the BACK of the picture.
She..in all her PRIVILEAGE...doesn't even believe that colorism is an "issue".
She sounds like some white motherfucker talking, and yet she doesn't understand why I ignore her postings.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6387
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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Kola,
You should always give your adversary enuff rope to hang him-herself.
If most foks see and concede that color matters and studies prove color matter, than the caliber of the mind and sentiment that would assert otherwise is laughably evident.
Remember, babe. You speak not to and for the benefit of those whom you KNOW loathe you and what you represent. You speak, instead, for and to those who might have the potential to know or to learn better. |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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abn:
thanks for the response. here is what we know objectively, forget my opinions and yours:
1.historically opressors have used race, culture and color to pursue their own ends and so they have made some say house slaves and others field slaves.
(so i think we already know why the darker skinned college graduate may be ignored/passed over- my question is why?)
2. rwanda was real. there was genocide.
(i dont think its a question of fear...but shouldnt we all be working to prevent a similar occurence? we know that oppressors use a divide and conquer thesis, therefore why would we want to play into it? hutus and tutsi did not win in rwanda but perhaps someone else did).
and here:
"What’s the point of our educating ourselves if we choose to ignore what affects US?"
u make a great point which is exactly the same point im trying to make. objectively, what is affecting us? is it the belgian who fans flames of racial superiority or the hutu and tutsi who want to hack each other to death.
when some one talks about throwing out light skinned babies with the bath water then well we approach the edge.and again play the part that we are supposed to play.
byw egg shaped? ok! but flat...surely not?
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Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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i have a simple philosophy.
u cant win an argument with ignorant people-so its best not to argue with them. ignorancy usually reveals itself when you place reasoned arguments before people and they start to call u derogatory names and /or assume they know everything about u. i believe they do so because they cant cope with the arguments so i leave them alone.
i neither hate nor loathe people i have not met. my dream is to find people who are adult enough to agree to differ on specific issues.
thanks. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 582
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
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Shemika: Crymeariver, I don't think you get it; no one said Malcolm’s contributions didn't matter today, we are talking about racism supported by light skins toward darker skinned blacks. When I see one who sincerely has the same values as Malcolm had I'll respect them as such. But we are talking about those today who practice white supremacy and try to exalt themselves over darker blacks by disrespecting them. Years ago during Malcolm’s era a lot of light skins became conscious about blackness- at least outwardly.
Now, light skin blacks are mostly out for themselves. A lot of them are being raised by ww, mating with them or picking up their ideals. And as a result many either don't even want to be considered black or they wish to redefine being black as the same as looking like Mariah with no identifiable genetic standard for being black.
I've heard recordings of Malcolm and HE didn't believe in that. He even opposed mating outside the race and I recall hearing hem speak of how weak blacks become when there is too much cream in their coffee. And I’m sure that metaphor could be applied in more ways then one.
Schakspir: cry me a river, indeed. Shut up, you fat slob. Hit the stairmaster. Put the Chocodiles down....Get a fucking life, loser. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6392
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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Crymeariver,
I think there are many UNLIKELY things that would have to occur for anything CLOSE to a Rwandan tragedy to occur here in the U.S.
Moreover, I think the Rwandan incident is unique and specific to the set of circumstances upon which it occur. I mean, Africa is teeming with tribal, cultural and language differences and squabbling. Yet you don't see this Black-on-Black Rwandan type killing being replicated throughout the continent. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5094
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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Crymeariver, you seem to be a very sincere person who brings a different perspective to the subject of colorism. What you have to say has a degree of credibility because you speak from experience. There are those here who think "studies" are a panacea and that the more of them there are, the better. But studies are tools which speculate about the questions they propose. There's always the questions that they don't ask, questions avoided because studies are very often conducted by people with an agenda. There was a time back when, in fulfilling their EEO requirements, corporations preferred the visibility of DARK people to showcase what came to be referred to their "token niggers". So there are always extenuating circumstances when it comes to colorism. Obviously colorism is a very volatile issue and it is also a very subjective one because the color of one's skin determines to what degree colorism affects one. This subject evokes a lot of emotional response and emotions have to be waded through in order to discern reality. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5095
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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Ooops, that should've been EOE requirements. (Equality Opportunity Employers) |
Crymeariver
Newbie Poster
Username: Crymeariver
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 07:35 pm: |
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abm:
i note u are silent on 1) above...why?
anyway those unique circumstances that u speak of...think of darfur. thats genocide. the only reason that its not widely reported as that is again because its african on african. there are about half a dozen other "unique" cirumstances which result in one ethnic group killing each other that i can think of, and thats off the top of my head. and if u are waiting for rwanda to be replicated up and down the continent before u accept what i am saying then i most certainly am not. i recognize the danger and thats why i speak as i do.
u see colorism. fine. i therefore respectfully hope that u can agree to differ without any angst.
im kind of withdrawing from this particular convo now becos clearly the lines are drawn and its very rare for parties in this type of discussion to concede that the others version of events has any credibility. thank u all the same because i believe our section of the discussion has been conducted without abuse and i look upon it as an opportunity to learn how others think.
thank u once again.
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cynique:
thanks for your input and yes i believe that my version of circumstances is a credible one. look forward to exchanging ideas with u by and by.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6397
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 06:24 am: |
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Crymeariver,
I thank you as well. |
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