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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 916
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:30 pm: | 
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Is he a good leader? If yes or no, explain why |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 634
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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Leader of what? And where is he leading them? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2644
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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Not any more. He is vain and corrupt and too beholden to the Democrats--but I said it before and I'll say it again. Black people have the leaders they deserve. Black people on the whole are cowardly, corrupt, backbiting, jealous, petty, ignorant, arrogant, and frivolous and who would want to lead them.
I hear this all the time about Jackson and Sharpton. But who is out there, champing at the bit to lead who they are preventing from getting to the fore?
Face it. For their pains they are pilloried, talked about, have their lives threatened, exposed, and ridiculed.
Who wants it?
On the so called conservative side you have a bunch of negroes who have never run for office or started a business or do anything but say things to make racist white folks feel good.
Dr. King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers and others of their ilk are dead. They blew their brains out. Everybody saw what they got and saw that they were standing there practically alone when death came for them.
You will not see their like again. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1287
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 07:10 pm: |
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One of the most unfortunate myths of the various historical civil/human rights movements was that they were begun and maintained by "leaders." Such was not the case. All movements are begun and kept alive by everyday folks with feet on the ground, asses to chairs, ears to phones, mouths to microphones, fingers to keyboards, etc, etc. "Leaders" may have been important symbols, but we have created this falsehood that they were the movements.
We don't need no stinkin' Jessee (or Al or anybody else) now. These folks do not represent me or my views. In fact, no one could fully represent the complexity that is me and my views except for me. It's 2006. Let's stop crying over spilt milk and fallen leaders and get to work. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4997
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 08:36 pm: |
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I agree, Yvette! |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 639
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 09:22 pm: |
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"We don't need no stinkin' Jessee (or Al or anybody else) now. These folks do not represent me or my views. In fact, no one could fully represent the complexity that is me and my views except for me. It's 2006. Let's stop crying over spilt milk and fallen leaders and get to work."
Thank you very much. I agree 100% I was never on board with this so-called black leader moniker. As I stated before, leading whom and where? And how do you become a black leader? Receive a degree in Black Leadership and Management? Is there a certification board? A state or national qualifying test? Are you elected by members of a Black Leadership Council? How? And when was the last time you heard the term "white leaders"? You won't because there are none! White people are free to agree or disagree within a wide range of subjects and issues without being called "Uncle Jebs" and race traitors (except by the most extreme and dangerous groups -e.g. Aryan Nation, Skin Heads, Nazi's, et al).
There are black social and political activists. NOT LEADERS! Don't fall for the hype and let other people define and categorize who represents or reflects your beliefs. I don't!
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Trinyc
Newbie Poster
Username: Trinyc
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:51 am: |
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I agree that people can be a powerful catalyst in affecting change in their personal lives and communities. But I do think there's a place for a good leader that has the ability to harness the various passions of the people into a more focused tool that can be used to get things done.
However, I do believe that the one or two "leaders" of old cannot speak for all the diverse segments in the AA community today. So, there definitely needs to be room made for activists with different views. Yet, it seems that whenever a unique voice speaks; it's quieted. So how can progress in leadership be made? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2647
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 07:44 am: |
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Yvettep:
You ain't getting to work. Because you have no leaders.
All movements, organizations, groups, etc. have leaders. I only hear black people talk about they don't need any leaders. It is true that regular people started the Montgomery Bus boycott, but at one point they realized they needed a leader and a spokesman and went and got Dr. King.
I could make a comment about this is due to lack of a proper family life but you would all call me a dirty old man---but I can't help thinking this has something to do with it.
Read Robert THE WHITE MAN rules of order. One of the first things you will be called on to do is appoint leaders, officers, Sgt at arms, etc. Try to incorporate. You are going to have to have a board of directors and officers.
Negroes think everything is like organizing a fish fry.
Because you intend to do nothing, or have done nothing you do not know this. Once you start doing anything, whether it is try to get a pothole fixed, a law changed, a traffic light in, an alderman recalled, a candidate on the ballot, whatever at some point the people you are petitioning or fighting are going to ask you who is your leader or spokesman. They are not going to sit down and speak to no whole room full of people. You will also find that everybody does not or cannot do this for one reason or another.
Forget trying to do anything. You have no idea of organization and are doomed to fail.
I am not surprised at Cynique. You know how it is for blacks in them small towns. They better just go along and get along.
I know how it is,Cynique. Six year old white boys calling you girl. White men old enough to be your daddy calling you Auntie. Going in the back way to get your sammiches.
It has happened so long you like it.
My advice is to submit. Bend over and grease up. It will go easier that way instead of constant griping and doing nothing about it.
Trinyc:
What unique voice has been quieted? You are making this up, aren't you?
Again I say to all of you, go ahead and get out there. Call up the papers, the tv, the news media and tell them Jesse doesn't speak for you and that you want to give em your two cents.
Then they'll ask you who you represent.
Haw!
Look at my post on The New Map Game. I saw that guy speaking on CSpan the other day. White folks planning how to run the world. Negroes complaining about somebody lighter than them called them a name.
Don't expect anything but the worst. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Chris, there is a big difference between capital-L, god-like Leaders, and every day leadership. Every day leadership doesn't wait on a bigger-than-life "personality" in order to get a pothole fixed. Anyone is welcome to step up to the plate and begin organizing and acting.
And since you do not know me, you have no idea what I have already accomplished or may accomplish.
But I'm not going to argue with you. Tell you what: You do things your way and I'll do things mine and at the end of the day we'll see who gets the most done. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6267
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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Yvettep,
You said in another thread there a plenty of local, grassroots outfits working diligently to improve the lot of Black community and people. I'd argue the reason WHY those efforts are not receiving resources and support that could greatly augment the benefits of their endeavors is the that they lack coordination under some common, charismatic and persuasive LEADERSHIP.
All,
Show me any great and worthy organization, enterprise and endeavor - be it a family, business, community, city, society, country or culture - and I'll show you great LEADERSHIP.
SOMEONE must have the power, influence, wisdom and resources to make anything MEANINGFUL and ENDURING happen.
You can go right ahead on thinking you're gon' just think and do for yourself, and a group of likeminded people are going to rally behind some smart, strong LEADER and take every gotdayam thing you've got. And laugh at you in the process.
That's not conjecture or opinion. That shyt's HISTORY.
Foks. The CONCEPT of leadship is NOT the problem. Perhaps the TYPE and QUALITY of leadership is. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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I never said leaders are not important. But the type of Leaders some of you seem to be longing for are definitely not. The type of Leaders where everybody sits around twiddling their thumbs and praying on their rosaries hoping for a savior. WE DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT. It is a cruel joke (on us) to think that any one of us does not have what it takes to step up to the plate, organize others, and get stuff done. This does not mean that once you take on leadership on a certain issue you will once and for all be elevated to the Leader Squad or something. No, you will take on a limited goal, for which you have particular expertise and motivation, and together with "like minded people" you will achieve your goals. If you fail, you will have achieved great knowledge about how "the system" works, made new alliances, and will be able to put these lessons to work next time.
I see this happen all the time, so do not tell me it's pie in the sky. I've done it myself around several issues in several different contexts--including an Army base which is one of the most intractable and difficult to change places on earth! And I did it as a civilian, to boot!
If you want a leader, look in the mirror. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6269
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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I am not sure whether Jesse Jackson is or was a great leader. I think he's had all of the talents and accoutrements to have been such. He's been very charismatic, eloquent, smart, savvy, brave and persevering for about 40 years.
If Jesse has NOT been a great leader it's probably due in no small part to our no longer being a great people to lead. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6271
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I doubt that anyone here is advocating waiting on some magical Black leader to descend from the heavens to save us all. But I think what some of us recognize is that there is some concept of leadership that is special, unique and necessary.
Foks like Dr. King, Shirley Chisolm and the like were (often against their will, even) PICKED by others to LEAD because THEY had what the astronauts have called "the right stuff". Because they possessed such, ALL benefited from it.
And by all means start and support whatever endeavor you believe will promote the better interests of your family and community. But if someone comes along who's better able to rally the attention, resources and efforts of others to further that end, then it would be in everyone's interests for you to step aside allow him or her to LEAD. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:10 pm: |
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some of us recognize is that there is some concept of leadership that is special, unique and necessary
And I am saying that it is possible and necessary to harness this within ourselves and within our children. I believe this quality exists in many of us already. And you can wait to be picked or nominate your daggon self. And it is not a pissing match--If someone "came along" with better stuff than you, then of course you'd want to assist them. But it is foolhardy to wait on that somebody. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 403
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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It always seems to come back to that, Yvettep. "If you want_________,look in the mirror" If you want it to happen, you have to get up and make it happen.If the objective is worthwhile, people will get on board with the program. One person with intelligence, vision and integrity can act as the flagpole for everyone else to rally around.One of the problems in the black community seems to be that we prefer something to fear and blame over something to dream and do, though. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4999
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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One thing for sure, chrishayden, is that you epitomize what would constitute poor leadership. You couldn't get a hungry rat to follow you. Your thinking is errant and inconsistent and your temperament at the level of a 3-year old who has wet his diaper and broken his favorite toy. As for leaders, they are either inept figureheads or irrepressible ego-centrics, and they too often become examples of how "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts asbsolutely." The success of a movement eliminates a need for its leader so leaders end up prolonging the process in order to ensure a need for their leadership. Yes, movements need structure, but structure involves spreading the responsibility around. Dead-heads like chrishayden think that envoking the name of Martin Luther King will silence an argument, but there are others who say that King's death served to enhance his charisma and preserve his prominence, because, in time, he would've become an impotent figure whose day had passed. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6274
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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Yvettep,
Again...WHO HAS advocated that you or anyone else WAIT on anything or anyone to lead you?
WHO? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
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Chris: You ain't getting to work. Because you have no leaders.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 01:15 pm: |
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Oh, sorry: Chris said the above, not me. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5001
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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Since time immemorial people have been brainwashed into believing that they should invest their hopes in "a man on a white horse" who will lead them out of the throes of deprivation. As Yvette suggests, individual initiative has to be nurtured and cultivated. A do-it-yourself approach to bringing about change is a good pro-active goal. In the animal kingdom leaders emerge when they kill off their opponents, suggesting that, at the primitive level, leadership is about physical prowess rather than mental cunning. Good thing we aren't animals. heh-heh. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 462
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 02:01 pm: |
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***{"...when was the last time you heard the term "white leaders"? You won't because there are none! White people are free to agree or disagree within a wide range of subjects and issues without being called "Uncle Jebs" and race traitors (except by the most extreme and dangerous groups -e.g. Aryan Nation, Skin Heads, Nazi's, et al."}***
By America being a nation with ideals firmly entrenched in white supremacy, and where many perceive the terms “America,” “American” and “white” synonymously, some would argue that our president is infact a “white leader.” And though I haven't witnessed the term “Uncle Jebs” being used, I have heard the terms “un-American” and “unpatriotic” tossed around liberally.
(Not that everything white is right like your statement implied.) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 463
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 02:13 pm: |
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We all can't talk at ounce and be heard so I definitely think we need leaders. We just need some that can represent such a diverse crowd and still focus on the majority.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6281
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 03:01 pm: |
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Ntfs,
Just because no one refers to Bill Gates, George Bush, George Steinbrenner, Rudy Guiliani, etc. as "White leaders" does NOT mean that that isn't what they are.
In the 230-year history of this country, ALL 43 of our presidents have been WHITE MALES. If AMERICAN ain't a clear and specific example and result of "White leadership", then I really don't know what the hell IS. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5004
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 06:17 pm: |
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Yea, but in a way, it's a political party that is elected and nowadays the party is elected by people of different races, so the President is not really a white "leader", he is either a Democrat or a Republican one. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 469
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 06:54 pm: |
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If blacks and people of color had their way...Bush would hardly be in office, Cynnique. It's true that a significant portion of the Hispanic population voted for him. But, if you add the ones that did not vote for him with the black vote and those of the remaining people of color, it really was a drop in the bucket. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 07:01 pm: |
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Just because BLACKS voted for a White man doesn't transform him into a "black" President.
Bill Clinton is as WHITE as white comes--though many referred to him as "the first black president".
And with so much "niggerstock" in the frey---you can hardly take our CHOICES seriously at all.
Shit. Half of us vote for the cutest, most charismatic "guy".
The White Man and the White Man's MOTHER firmly rule, legislate and manipulate this country, I don't care who's voting.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 470
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 07:14 pm: |
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Kola said:
"The White Man and the White Man's MOTHER firmly rule, legislate and manipulate this country, I don't care who's voting."
Exactly. Which was my point, Cynnique. He's neither a "Democrat" nor a "Republican leader." He's a majority-rules one. Though I get your point too. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6284
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 07:18 pm: |
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If White MEN rule BOTH political parties, what's the point of making any sort of distinction here?
Regardless of the party, the "White male leadership" is in full-effect. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 405
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:33 pm: |
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One should not lose sight of the fact that, in any presidential election, you're given the opportunity to choose between ivy league white males that have all been pre-approved by the power elite before the campaigns ever began. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1295
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 09:29 pm: |
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Think locally...
The real power in most local communities is your local school board. Also, next primary (if you vote in them) take a look at all the folks who are running for various offices unopposed.
I also have had folks try to tell me about becoming a delegate. I haven't looked into this yet for myself, but I hope to at some point.
I do plan to participate in this some time this fall: http://www.wellstone.org/camp/category_page.aspx?catID=3752
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5005
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:30 pm: |
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Well, there were millions of white Republicans who didn't consider white Bill Clinton their leader. That's because they weren't Democrats. If black, Democrat Barak Obama runs for president and wins, will he be considered a black leader or a Democrat leader? In politics a person's party supercedes his race when he becomes a winner. It is frequently the case that black voters will vote for a white liberal candidate of their party as opposed to a black conservative candidate for the opposing party. Obviously we are all playing fast and loose with the word "leader". |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2649
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 09:58 am: |
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ABM:
Say it again! LEADERSHIP!
Yvettep:
If I get the chance whatever you are doing I'm going to screw it up (because obviously I am one of those crabs in the barrell negroes and I like it!)
Cynique:
What you post speaks for itself. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2650
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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When Jessie Showed Leadership:
Back in the late 60's early 70's you'd have constructin jobs going on the the black neighborhoods, often involving use of Federal and state funds, and they wouldn't hire no blacks to work on the sites. People showed up and asked them to consider it, they laughed in their faces.
I need not spell out who controls most of these labor unions.
Jesse shows up one day with a bunch of Blackstone Rangers to discuss the same thing. Some blacks got some jobs.
This was when he was an outsider and hungry. Now he is fat, old, corrupt and bought off.
This was no glamor job, he had to go around with bodyguards after that.
In extreme situations, dealing with gangsters, you have to have people who are willing to go to the mattresses with them.
This we do not have. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5009
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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Yes, my words do speak for themselves, chrishayden. There is a differnce between a black leader and a leader who is black. A leader who is black can be at the head any group that allows him to lead. A Black leader is one who is elevated to his postion by a consensus of black people. Since black people are no longer of one mind, we have anointed no messiah. And the idea that we need or will get one is outdated. The time has come where blacks have to get things done by "committee" and, as Yvette says, this has to happen at the local level. There is always the hope that when one barrier is knocked down, a domino effect will occur and all the others will fall. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 535
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 09:58 pm: |
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Jesse? Let's not forget that he was the idiot who took it upon himself to call a national news conference in 1988 to ask that "black" Americans now be referred to as African-Americans. Another layer of hyphenated bullshit, to say the least. All done without getting anyone else's opinion before he acted. As a result of his actions, the proportion of people in the U.S. having a significant percentage of Sub-Saharan lineage has continued to decline over the last fifteen years at a minimum. The morally corrupt jackass that he is, he is now getting everything he deserves in that he has been uncerimoniously relegated to a whimsical has been - a politically diminutive, inept and incompetent bit player. |
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