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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2642
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 11:44 am: | 
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Their leaders supposedly believe that if they die killing infidels they will reside in garden with seven virgins to wait on their every need.
Our leaders are running up on the roof screaming about getting Raptured everytime a Jew and an Arab spit on each other over in the Holy Land.
If one is crazy so is the other far as I can see. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 635
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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OK...... |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 397
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:04 pm: |
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Just so you know, Chris, here's where one of those nutty ideas originated.Here's an article I read a while back.If you'll google "John Darby", you'll find a wealth of informayion on the subject
Its Beginning
The result of a careful investigation into the origin of the Rapture has been recently published. The book is an excellent one which deserves to be read by all people interested in the subject. Its title: "The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin" by Dave MacPherson. He catalogs a great deal of historical material which answers the doctrine's mysterious derivation. We wish to review the results of his research. In the middle 1820's a religious environment began to be established among a few Christians in London. England which proved to be the catalyst around which the doctrine of the Rapture emerged. Expectations of the soon coming of our Lord were being voiced, This was no new thing, but what, was unusual was the teaching by a Presbyterian minister named Edward Irving that there had to be a restoration of the spiritual gifts mentioned in I Corinthians 12-14 just before Christ's second coming. To Irving, the time had come for those spiritual manifestations to occur. Among the expected gifts was the renewal of speaking in tongues and of spirit-motivated prophetic utterances. Irving began to propagate his beliefs. His oratorical skills and enthusiasm caused his congregation in London to grow. Then a number of people began to experience the "gifts." Once this happened opposition from the organized churches set in. It resulted in Irving's dismissal from the Presbyterian church in 1832. His group then established themselves as the Catholic Apostolic Church and continued the teachings of Irving.
These events were the beginnings of what some call present day Pentecostalism. Indeed Irving has been called by some church historians "the father of modern Pentecostalism." What does all this have to do with the origin of the Rapture doctrine? Very much indeed. Let us look at what happened in the year 1830 -- two years before Irving's dismissal from the Presbyterian church. In that year a revival of the "gifts" began to be manifested among a few people living in the lowlands of Scotland. They experienced what they called the outpouring of the Spirit. It was accompanied with speaking in "tongues" and other charismatic phenomena. Irving had been preaching these things must occur, and now they were.
On one particular evening. the power of the Holy Spirit was said to have rested on a Miss Margaret .Macdonald while she was in a state of illness at home. She was dangerously sick and thought she was dying. In spite of this (or perhaps because she is supposed to have come under "power" of the spirit for several successive hours during which she experienced the manifestations of "mingled prophecy and vision." The message she received during this prophetic vision convinced her that Christ was going to appear in two stages at His second coming -- and not one! The emanation revealed that Christ would first come in glory to them that look for Him and again in a final stage when every eye would see Him. It was this visionary experience of Miss Macdonald which represents the prime source of the modern Rapture doctrine as the historical evidence compiled by Mr. MacPherson abundantly shows.
The Influence of John Darby
Many people have thought that John Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren, was the originator of the Rapture doctrine. This is not the case. Darby was a brilliant theologian with outstanding scholarly abilities. Even those who have disagreed with his teachings admit that he, and many associated with him, helped to cause a revival in biblical learning throughout the evangelical world (which even has been perpetuated down to our own present day). All who love biblical research ought to be thankful for what Darby and especially his associates accomplished for biblical scholarship. They particularly helped pave the way for the renewal of modern lexical studies of the languages of the Bible. The doctrine of "dispensationalism" was also a teaching they brought to the attention of the Protestant world.
It had long been thought by many Christians that the Rapture doctrine originated with ,John Darby. It is now known that this is not true. Darby only popularized it. Scofield and others who took over Darby's mantle later helped to make it respectable, Today, many of those in the evangelical sphere of Christianity are so certain of its veracity that it is accepted as the absolute truth of God. The fact is, however, John Darby received the knowledge of the doctrine from someone else. The source was the Margaret Macdonald mentioned above.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2645
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:50 pm: |
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Anyone is free to believe anything they want. White folks make up some stuff that makes it sound like you might be able to cheat death and bring it to Negroes, Negroes scarf it right down. This is a free country and we have freedom of religion.
I just want to say that The Catholic Church, which is a much older sect of Christianity, does not recognize that doctrine. Nor does the Eastern Orthodox Church which is also older than Protestantism. Nor do any of the old line Protestant churches like the Lutherans, Anglicans, et al.
I leave that to theologians to sort out. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 400
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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So, what you are suggesting is that some crazy white folks dreamed that rapture stuff up, were rejected entirely by main stream orthodoxy, but we swallowed that foolishness hook, line and sinker? If yes, that might be the most sensible thing that I've ever heard you say, Chris. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6268
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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Mostly religions at their core has wholly, ridiculously unprovable elements to them. And that's fine.
I have NOT problem with someone believing in 70 heavenly virgins, the Rapture, Reincarnation, etc.
The only problem we all should fear of religion is when issues of faith compel some to infringe upon the secular rights and privileges of others. Most - if not ALL - religions are at some point guilty of this. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 402
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:52 am: |
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I couldn't agree more, Abm.A person can believe that the world is flat and resting on the back of a giant tortoise and that is just fine as long as he isn't out there killing people to save them from themselves and pushing to have it mandated that herpetism be taught in our schools.The problem isn't religion, it's religious people. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5000
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Christianity seems to be the only religion that feels obligated to convert others to its way of thinking. Other religions don't prosyletize like it does. But the dogma of all religions seems to be "it's my way, or the highway." Religion has to be the most divisive force in the world. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6275
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 01:09 pm: |
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Cynique,
You believe religion is in itself divisive? Or is religion simply a convenient means of and reason for foks to fight?
I tend to think the latter. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 5002
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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There are seven major religions in the world, and they are all divided into sub-sects and many different denominations - all because people separate themselve from others who don't believe the way they do. Religion is man-made, and as such, it distances us from God, who is the "Universal One". And that idea is the personal religion that separates me from others. Ohmmmmm. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6276
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 02:22 pm: |
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I believe the divisiveness within how many practice religion has less to do with religion itself and more to do with man's need and desire to seperate and segregate to acquire and facilitate power. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3110
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 02:42 pm: |
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Yeah, but the "religion" is created by Man, ABM. It's an institution much like a college----the religion is formed to dictate HOW we will study, pray and believe.
GOD and spirituality are not the "religion".
I have been saying for years that we need to abolish the man-made religions and go back to the women's religions, as African originally believed that the WOMEN should rule, legislate that part of the society.
The men ruled the political, survivalist (the land, fire, war, hunting) and left the WOMEN in charge of religion.
Christianity changed all that (though I am NOT suggesting we go back to BAAL and other practices---human sacrifices, etc.)
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 6280
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 02:52 pm: |
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Kola,
I'm not ready to believe that female-led religions would be inherently superior to those that are being led by men.
I guess if you can present to me a valid example of such that CURRENTLY exists, I might think better of what you propose. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3111
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 03:12 pm: |
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