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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 05:16 pm: | 
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A few days ago--on another thread--I asked why do black women catch all of the blame for a fatherless society, also, how can we possibly have fathers in this society when WE refuse to define one.
Well, skimming through this article by Archie Wortham, I couldn’t help thinking, oh lord, here we go again!
Here's the part that had me rolling. After pondering over why *HIS* two sons didn't turn out to be better achievers, he writes this:
"As I reflected over this, it dawned on me where I think many men are falling today. We are falling in a crevice that society cut that in some societies is as deep a pit as the Grand Canyon. In a world where the importance of fatherhood has been diminished, denigrated and denied, it's no wonder many of our boys are alienated from believing in themselves. In many cases, I would ask men today, do we believe in ourselves.
A couple of weeks ago when I used Bill Cosby's scathing revelatory remarks to the women at Spellman I countered with Leonard Pitts remarks that men generally excel for the women they adore. Well ladies, where are the men you adore, and if you can't find any, is it because you have taken upon yourself to do all you can do to make sure we are viewed as not weak or wusses, looked upon as unimportant and not needed. That's such a key, especially when you look at the number of women, particularly black women who are choosing not to get married.
Is that what we are cultivating in our society? Are we re-inventing a form of slavery where our black women think their black men are been harvested for entrapment, incarceration or entombment? If they can't get a job, they have nothing they can give a family. If they are in jail, their reputation has been ruined and the chances of regrouping are painful if not impossible. Death for some might come as an angel in the night that results in a welfare check or insurance pay out that makes life better. We've got to make this better for our men, and we start by educating them. We groom them."
I don't disagree with him totally. I'm just wondering why he decided to put all of the blame on "society," and black women "who are CHOOSING not to get married," instead of putting SOME of it on the young men themselves and the men who CHOSE not to raise them.
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Full Article:
"We've seen a cultural shift in many communities that makes it downright un-male to be studious, while we've celebrated the academic achievement of girls. The pendulum has swung too far.it's time to find balance-perhaps for the first time." Those words belong to Mary Broaderick, president of the Connecticut Association of School Boards.
This is not unlike John McWhorter's commenting on therapeutic alienation, where people, because of insecurity disassociate themselves with what's going on around them. Ironically, in many communities today, it is downright un-black to do anything that might be associated with being white, like getting good grades, living in the 'burbs, getting off welfare or planning on going to college.
I realize that those comments might be a bit strong, but no stronger than Dr. Bill Cosby's comments as he told the women of Spellman College that the black race has nothing left but its women, partly because too few black males are graduating from high school. Cosby goes further by saying these are the same male students who "have memorized the lyrics of very difficult rap songs.and know how to send their sperm cells out and then walk away from the responsibility of something called fatherhood." That's the connector or disconnector. The connector for Dr. Cosby's words and those of Mary Broaderick for all men, particularly black men is fatherhood. And the disconnector because many of us don't believe as men we can accomplish the great things our ancestors created.
And don't give me any bull. If nothing else, your ancestors left you more than they had, with an expectation that you would do better than they did, and if you don't think you can.then you can't, or rather won't. I firmly believe like the educator Jerome Bruner, that all of us can learn, sandwiched between the prognostications of Mark Twain who said "We all are ignorant, just on different subjects."
Pacing through the house, in the early morn, or out running alone, I wonder why God gave me two such different sons. I wonder why they can be so difficult at times, and then I'm admonished that sometimes I too am extremely difficult. As I think about being a man, a husband and a father, I begin to wonder if my older son really believes in his dream, and when will my younger son find his.
With the older son, there was no question about his commitment, but his commitment only ran as far as his immediate gratification of success, success predicated on a shot made, an assist that was successful, or adulations from his coach. He seemed to forget in this hard world that one 'aw-shucks' wipes away a whole barrels of 'attaboys.'
As I reflected over this, it dawned on me where I think many men are falling today. We are falling in a crevice that society cut that in some societies is as deep a pit as the Grand Canyon. In a world where the importance of fatherhood has been diminished, denigrated and denied, it's no wonder many of our boys are alienated from believing in themselves. In many cases, I would ask men today, do we believe in ourselves.
A couple of weeks ago when I used Bill Cosby's scathing revelatory remarks to the women at Spellman I countered with Leonard Pitts remarks that men generally excel for the women they adore. Well ladies, where are the men you adore, and if you can't find any, is it because you have taken upon yourself to do all you can do to make sure we are viewed as not weak or wusses, looked upon as unimportant and not needed. That's such a key, especially when you look at the number of women, particularly black women who are choosing not to get married.
Is that what we are cultivating in our society? Are we re-inventing a form of slavery where our black women think their black men are been harvested for entrapment, incarceration or entombment? If they can't get a job, they have nothing they can give a family. If they are in jail, their reputation has been ruined and the chances of regrouping are painful if not impossible. Death for some might come as an angel in the night that results in a welfare check or insurance pay out that makes life better. We've got to make this better for our men, and we start by educating them. We groom them.
We start grooming young men to respect women. Go back to opening doors for women. Go back to getting up and giving women a seat in a crowded room. Go back to saying please and thank you, and standing up for them when even Kobe won't. Men, get educated. Understand that no battle is lost until you give up.
It might be hard out there for a pimp, but pimps are going to have start paying income tax too, and that should make it even harder. But believe it or not, it's harder out here for an educated man trying to move against the flow of young black men with tattoos, bling-bling, piercing and who wear three pairs of shorts. It's hard, but not impossible.
And you men of the 60s? Many of us are approaching 60, and we should have as our mission understanding that we have to find a way to change the perception that being uneducated in "more un-cool" than being educated. We have to make kids realize that being uneducated is a slippery slope to jail. We, the men of the 60s, need today's kids to understand and appreciate the fact that being uneducated can kill your dream, alienate your heart and minimize who will look to you for support or help. We have to work to get kids to understand that their chance for success increases significantly not only if they go to school, but do well in school.
It's hard out there for young men who have a group of their peers teasing them because this group, for whatever reason has been therapeutically alienated from the truth. And we men who are cultivating fathers, if we don't tell them this, if we men don't accept this gospel as truth, they will never be free to "have a dream.embedded in the American dream," where "content of character," means more than the "color of their skin."
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Archie Wortham lives with his wife, Suzan of 23 years, and their two sons Myles (12), and Jeremy (16) in Universal City, Texas, a suburb of San Antonio. Retired from the military in 1996, for nine years he wrote a dad's column originally called "Jeremy's Dad," then called "Jeremyles' Dad," named after both his sons. He now writes a column in San Antonio called "Men 2 Fathers." Archie also maintains the Fatherhood site, you may contact him by email at archie@flash.net
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http://www.fatherville.com/Articles/It |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5551
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:04 pm: |
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Tonya,
Isn't Wortham's view consistent with that of Kola's who assert it is the mother, not the father, who imparts culture upon children (I'm not sure I concur with this, at least not completely, btw.)? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 114
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
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Yeah, Abm, traditionally that has been the mother’s responsibility. But, tell me. How can she perform her functions well when she has to take on both her responsibilities and those of the man? The father, traditionally, was supposed to be the bread winner, the disciplinarian the role model ect. When you add both tasks together, roles of mother & father, it's more than ONE person can handle. So I don't get how we expect single women to PERFECT their part (acculturation)...all by themselves...AND perform & perfect the role that ought to be done by the man. We are asking too much of single black mothers, IMO. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5553
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:36 pm: |
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Tonya,
I think Black men and women should be raising children together. But if there are no penalties asserted by both men and women requiring such, well then, HERE WE ARE. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 115
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:39 pm: |
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...exactly Abm. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2509
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 06:52 pm: |
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I don't get how we expect single women to PERFECT their part (acculturation)...all by themselves...AND perform & perfect the role that ought to be done by the man. We are asking too much of single black mothers, IMO.
Thank you TONYA---because without Thomas's enormous support and help---I hate to think what I would go through with my boys.
And I see MOST sisters have NO SUPPORT, no "understanding" from other black women and ELDERS---and are openly DESPISED and spit on by the majority of black men.
Our whole world is dying, and though MANY have criticized my constant praise, fondness for ABM.....I just love ANY black man who's there for his children...and to be committed to his wife on top of it---that's EVERYTHING I respect and want my sons to be.
What young men and women need to realize---is that you can't expect to "AGREE" or even completely "get along".
In African culture (which is your culture, too)....we always had the principle that the CHILDREN were more important than the Maters, and that they came first.
There are villages and towns where men are strung up and beaten by other men---for not providing for their children.
But away from our homeland, notice it's the opposite.
What we can do...is recognize that WE are a people and pledge our allegiance to our "POWER"---which is our children. Not to money, power and institutions--but to our "Children". If we go back to that--then the FOCUS is automatic.
America is "Me, me, me" society.
We also need to re-install the "ELDER". The person who, because of AGE and experience, is closest to GOD and the ancestors---and therefore someone we listen to, respect and place in honor, regardless of agreement or disagreement.
We need STANDARDS that serve US...of our creation.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 09:30 pm: |
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Thanks for posting this, Tonya. Most important part, to me, comes at the end:
Archie Wortham lives with his wife, Suzan of 23 years, and their two sons Myles (12), and Jeremy (16) in Universal City, Texas, a suburb of San Antonio. Retired from the military in 1996, for nine years he wrote a dad's column originally called "Jeremy's Dad," then called "Jeremyles' Dad," named after both his sons. He now writes a column in San Antonio called "Men 2 Fathers." Archie also maintains the Fatherhood site...
I think this would fall under the category "Talking the talk AND walking the walk." |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
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Father absence has a huge impact on our communities. We often lament young girls having babies. But most stats reveal that the fathers of these babies are often several years older than the mothers. In other words, our "babies" may be having babies--but they are having them by grown men.
Guess who these young girls are looking for...
A while back I came across something (a book? a magazine article?) about the cost of father absence on Black girls. (Not to discount the cost on Black boys, but this is the other side of the coin.) For the life of me I cannot remember what it was or who it was by. Anyone know what the heck I'm talking about? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5554
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 07:24 am: |
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Kola: "What young men and women need to realize---is that you can't expect to "AGREE" or even completely "get along""
We now live in a time and culture that teaches us to idolize our own and every selfish need, inclination and desire. And anything that flauts such MUST be discarded. As long as we abide this SELFISH perspective, our families will come asunder. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5555
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 07:26 am: |
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Yvettep,
Actually, the rates of Black teenage pregnancy are decidely LOWER than they were a generation ago. And the vast majority of single/unmarried Black mothers are ADULTS.
So this isn't really a matter of young sistas being seduced by older men. It's much more an issue of ADULTS choosing to eschew marrying and raising children together. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1199
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 09:34 am: |
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Yes, ABM, those trends have been on-going for the last several years--a teen pregnancy rate dropping by about half. However, I was specifically speaking about who the fathers of babies are of the Black teenaged females who are getting pregnant. (And in my opinion, the # of teen pregnancies--especially in the absence of proper prenatal health care--is still far too high. But that's another thread.) |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 09:39 am: |
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Planned Parenthood has a nice fact sheet about pregnancy and childbearing among adolescents: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/teensexualh ealth/fact-pregnancy-teens-us.xml
Here's a blurb about the study I mentioned before (but mangled the results of!):
Teenage girls with older partners are more likely to become pregnant than those with partners closer in age. A study found that 6.7 percent of women aged 15–17 have partners six or more years older than they. The pregnancy rate for this group is 3.7 times as high as the rate for those whose partner is no more than two years older.
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