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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 71
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 01:22 pm: | 
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Tiger Woods just won British Open and he is crying like a newborn. Congrats, Tiger! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1030
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 01:52 pm: |
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Probably cause his Dad's not there.  |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 72
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 03:55 pm: |
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yeah, Tiger's first win since his dad died.
His mom wasn't there either,but his wife, also known as "miss Blondee" was present. I heard Tiger's mom doesn't like her. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5257
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
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Jeezus Christ! Aren't there any more MEN being made?? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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As if you never cry ABM. A real man can be sensitive, there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't take anything away from your manhood if you boohoo every once in a while. |
Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 568
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
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Tiger Woods is a "Great" athelete. But he is what he is. A product. He is the product of a self-hating BM and an overbearing non-black mother. I was convinved that he had deep emotional issues when he told the media that he was only 1/4 Black.
How confused is he? |
Venussailor
Newbie Poster
Username: Venussailor
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 09:01 pm: |
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What is wrong with you! Do you have ice water in your veins? Dont you care about anything besides the color of someones skin? Everybody else is talking about his win and how emotional it was due to his father's death. You are a sick, colorstruck individual who needs help, are there crazy people in the sailor clan? Im not a sailor, just a Venus, but I dont want to be associated with such a warped person with no feeling and nothing positive to say. I think all of us at thumpers corner who are in our right minds should find out who this bitch is and ban her from the sight. Sernasailor is an embarrassment to not only people of color, but to the whole human race. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 473
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
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Tiger Woods is a "Great" athelete. But he is what he is. A product.
Yep! Ya got that right. He is a fantastic world class athlete who has the genetic predisposition to achieve greatness. I recall a personal friend of mine (who is a golf nut) telling me a story about Tiger Woods. He told me when Tiger was a small child, his father introduced him at a golf course he was playing at. His father wagered a bet that Tiger (a small boy) could beat him in a round of golf. My friend accepted the bet. HE LOST!
He is the product of a self-hating BM and an overbearing non-black mother.
And how in the hell would you know that he hated himself???? Did he said he hated himself? Did you ever read or hear documented reports that verified he suffered from self hatred? Do you have copies of his medical or psychiatric records to support this claim? Or is this nothing more than a groundless racist accusation based on nothing more than your personal opinion? Please…produce the verifiable details that you have of this purported self hate!
I was convinved that he had deep emotional issues when he told the media that he was only 1/4 Black.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Deep emotional issues, huh? I see….and you can prove this also. You know for a fact that Tiger Woods is undergoing therapy and perhaps taking medication for depression for deep emotional issues. Right? Ok….Ok….details please…..
How confused is he?
Well, he can’t possibly be anymore confused than you are. That’s for sure.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5279
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
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Honestly. I gotta side with Serenasailor on this one.
Fuck Tiger! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2207
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:31 pm: |
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That's my KING!!!!!
I love ABM so much I could just die!!!!!!
ABM, I have never been a slave, but I would love to be your SLAVE.
You and your wife's MAID.
I'm serious.
I love you so much, and I want my boys to be "something" of a mix between you and their dad.
You both are TRULY Black Kings.
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 583
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:42 am: |
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Ice water in my veins. You sound like someone I know Venussailor who uses that expression all the time. No I am very sensitive. It is ppl like Tiger who are the most insensitive ppl in the world. They only care about their image. Not about their fans. Tiger does not care about the millions of little Black boys who look up to him, and now have the confidence to start to swing a golf club because of him. He spits in the face of his African heritage, thus spitting in the face of Black ppl worldwide by disowning them, and refusing to acknowledge that he is one of them. SHAME ON HIM!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2213
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 01:32 am: |
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Serena is RIGHT.
You go daddy!!!
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Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 475
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:02 am: |
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i am not a tiger fan due to his not being a fan of being considered a black male ...well not because of that, but more so because it seemed to me as though that he was disgusted to be considered black.... but , still i don't like to see anyone have to go through the pain of losing a loved one, we all have to go through it sometime ... and i sure don't think any of us needs any people cheering on our saddness at that point in time.
abm in this case i suppose it's alright for him to release the water works, but youre right there have been far too many dude athletes crying like girlies lately after winning championships. infact i think i'm gonna go watch fight club now to make sure i dont cry for another 10 years (not including allergies or onion cutting instances) |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 238
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:05 am: |
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tiger woods is a clown of the first sort. im not a person to get into who he married or anything like that (i mean to be honest, his wife is VERY attractive). but, when he came out and said he was mostly asian or that he was "caublinasian" (caucasion, black, indian, and asian), i felt that he was a authentic idiot. i don't like to put people in boxes or say people should act a certain way to prove their "blackness". but its clear (atleast to me) that tiger woods has done and will do everything in his power to distance himself from black people. even his father (not to speak ill of the dead, but only to prove my point), when asked what race tiger is or a member of, his answer was," the human race". so its clear evern his father told him or taught him he was not black or something other than black. and its kind of pathetic, because tiger woods (even if his mother is asian) is very obviously black. i think life is too short to get caught up in the "am i black enough for you game". but tiger woods very clearly has issues with his being black.
like the rapper nas said
"i don't judge tiger woods, but i understand the mental poison, thats even worse(r) than drugs".
hey tiger woods go and f*ck yourself!!!!!!!! |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 481
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:51 am: |
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”tiger woods is a clown of the first sort. im not a person to get into who he married or anything like that (i mean to be honest, his wife is VERY attractive). but, when he came out and said he was mostly asian or that he was "caublinasian" (caucasion, black, indian, and asian), i felt that he was a authentic idiot. i don't like………. because tiger woods (even if his mother is asian) is very obviously black. i think life is too short to get caught up in the "am i black enough for you game". but tiger woods very clearly has issues with his being black. like the rapper nas said "i don't judge tiger woods, but i understand the mental poison, thats even worse(r) than drugs".
I guess I’m going to be the odd man out on this subject (surprised?). I think Tiger is a great athlete and he does a lot of philanthropy. Others do, but I really don't have a problem with the man per se. Next to Muhammad Ali, he is the most recognized athlete in the world -ever!. People recognize and love this guy wherever he goes. The only people that dislike and hate on him are American black people! I’ve never understood this insistent harping and putting him down. But I believe it stems from the comment about his genetic heritage. Personally, I could care less and I have never understood why so many black people become infuriated over anyone not wanting to be black.
I posted an article about so-called people of mixed racial heritage wanting to be considered a separate group. If they desire to be a separate group (which they can’t be), fine. I could careless. I’m not interested in anyone who has issues about being labeled black. It’s bad enough there are too many black people who don’t want to be black.
I have enough pride and enthusiasm in my personal heroes (Malcolm X, Miles Davis, A. Philip Randolph, Benjamin O. Davis Jr.,James Weldon Johnson, Fannie Lou Hammer, Carter Woodson, W.E.B. Dubois, et al) and history (love the Harlem Renaissance) to concern myself with anyone who wants to deny being black. Fuck ‘em! Why care? There is no shortage of black people so I don’t understand this gnashing of the teeth, foaming at the mouth and vehemently castigating people who don’t want to be black. If they have issues with having African genes, step on! I’m not going to waste my time calling them names and hissing at them.
But I will admit something. I don’t want to contradict myself, but when Tiger made that comment about being a variegated racial mix, it did irk me. Contrary to what he believes, if he was not who he is, and he robbed a Seven Eleven store, and the police asked for a physical description, the clerk would not say; “I’m not really sure….he seemed to be Asian….naw….maybe Thai? Hmmmmm….he could be mixed…but I really can’t say”. No! They would say; “IT WAS A BLACK GUY!” Brother Tiger needs to realize this. So your comment; “….because tiger woods (even if his mother is asian) is very obviously black.”, is very true.
But after thinking about his decision to make such a racially politically correct statement, fine! Let him (and anyone else that thinks like that) believe he can be physically distinguished from other black people. It’s a fantasy –but it’s his personal fantasy. As I said, I have enough black heroes and history to keep me more than happy minus the wannabe passing Negroes who detest the idea of being considered black.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5301
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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It's only GOLF, for Christ Sake. It's barely a fuhking sport.
NO WAY is Tiger anywhere NEAR the class of Dwyane Wade, Barry Bonds or Vince Young. Shyt. Tiger isn't athletic enuff to clean those guys used jockstrap.
Even Tiger's kissa$$ (and fellow White woman-loving) buddy Charles Barkely said when asked about how great an athlete Tiger is that "He's a great athlete...for a GOLFER."
The ONLY friggin' reason Tiger in particular and golf in general gets the pub it gets is because it the only "sport" some fata$$ rich White dude can play without collapsing from a friggin' coronary.
And when his poppa Earl started out favorably comparing Tiger eventual impact to that of Jesus Christ, I was pretty much THREW with him and his son. And that was even BEFORE Tiger started talking this crazy Cablasian shyt. |
Fortified
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 173
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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Didn't his father peddle him as an "African-American golfer" first and then changed to Caublinasian only after he won the Masters? Now, THAT I found strange. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5302
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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Fortified,
I don't know if the Caublasian thing was Earl's idea. I've only actually witnessed Tiger refer to such.
But I could be in error. |
Fortified
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 174
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Oh, okay... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5304
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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I think what's ironic about Tiger's parents is although they were (Btw: Were they actually still together before Earl died?) a mixed couple, apparently they were none too happy with Tiger dating and marrying a White woman.
Funny how hypocritical and duplicitous EVERYONE can be on the issue of Interracial Relationships. |
Fortified
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 175
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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I think Tiger was with a lawyer (Joanna Jagoda?) before Elin (his current wife). I heard his mom preferred Joanna over Elin.
I remember when Oprah tried to set him up with Tyra Banks. He 'politely' declined. LOL! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2227
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:12 pm: |
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ABM---
all 3 of Earl's sons are married to WHITE women.
Earl had no problem with Elin being white...he just didn't like HER.
The "mother" has not been happy with her sons marrying white women---but of course she's in DENIAL about why Earl married HER (and kept a white mistress)---so colorism naturally moved up the ladder.
Tiger married just as his brothers did, and they will all give birth to even WHITER babies...just as Earl had dreamed as a young colored boy in the negro community years earlier.
The singer SEAL is the African version of Earl.
Niggerstock.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5322
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
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Kola,
All THREE of'em have White wives???
*shakinmygotdayamhead*
So guess what you're saying about Earl is he probably would have gottan him a "Becky too if such was not as dangerous as it was +40 years ago. And Tiger's mom's was just a White-like substitute for his caucasian predilection. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2230
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:23 pm: |
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EXACTLY.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5325
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:33 pm: |
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You know. I don't hate or even loathe Earl and Tiger. I more pity them than anything else.
Beside, I consider resenting them a waste of time.
But I do think it's times that Black foks begin to assert some perspective on their humanity that does NOT include us desiring to become and embrace someone who's hellbent upon discarding any hereditary connection with Africa.
Moreover. We don’t NEED Tiger any more than he apparently thinks that he need us. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2231
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:40 pm: |
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ABM, I wish I could CLONE you. 
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5326
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:44 pm: |
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Kola: "ABM, I wish I could CLONE you."
There you go again bringing your kinky sex fantasies into the conversation.
Hahahaha!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2233
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:56 pm: |
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LOL!!!
I didn't mean that sexually at all.
I meant that you are the perfect man for "OUR PEOPLE".
Believe it or not, ABM--I would gladly "stand behind" any Black man who had a vision and some integrity. I could care less about the small stuff (cheating, snoring, unemployment, etc.)---I would support a black man like you to the Nth degree, because I believe that you would bring the people into the forest and out of the desert. And you would never humiliate or disrespect me.
You have vision, self-respect, a sense of humor, common sense and motherwit. Not to mention--you ACCEPT us as ourselves.
You have some vestiages of "sexism"--but that's what makes the spark between men and women. A little tension and frolic.
I promise to stop the WILD flirting though---because I hate for your wife to not like me and think I'm serious.
I am not. I just get such a kick out of playing with you.
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Urban_scribe
Regular Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 40
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 02:58 pm: |
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Woods may think of himself as "Caublasian" but the rest of the golfing world thinks of him as Black.
Especially Fuzzy Zoeller. He openly referred to Tiger on numerous occasions as "that boy" and "that little boy". And what was it again he told Woods about the menu for the Master's Dinner (the winner has the honor of choosing the menu) - "don't serve no damn fried chicken and collard greens." Or something to that effect. Maybe it's me, but in my estimation that's not something one would say to a "Caublasian"
I echo ABM: Fuck Tiger!
I pray he never murders his White wife and her White lover cuz then he'd have to come running back to Blacks - and our dumb asses will take him back just like we did that other great athlete. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5329
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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Kola: "Believe it or not, ABM--I would gladly "stand behind" any Black man who had a vision and some integrity. I could care less about the small stuff (cheating, snoring, unemployment, etc"
I'm not sure many African American sistas would be quite as tolerant as you (especially the part about "snoring"). But I do think Black women generally seek leadership in men.
But you don't really deserve to lead a Black women if you really wish that she was White.
Funny. Almost every chick I know calls me "sexist". And they can't get enuff of me. Destined's bestfriend often calls me that. And my wife has quite casually said she think her friend wants to give me some. She claims she can "sense" it.
*shrugs*
I think women generally want men to act as though they like having a penis and are dayam willing to sling that sucker at'em when you deserve it.
Hahahaha!!!
I like playing with you too, Kola. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1177
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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I'l throw two names out there:
Tiger Woods.
Barack Obama.
To me, there are some real similarities in these two men. Even it being the case that they are in two different fields (although in many respects politics is more a sport than golf, golf is certainly political, and they are both about marketing...) And there is an age difference.
But there are many areas of overlap.
So why, then, do they appear to take such a different path related to race--both publicly and through their personal lives? Could Obama have never gone down Woods' path (e.g., because of the nature of politics)? Could Woods have never gone down Obama's path (e.g., because of his father)? Can they even be compared at all?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5331
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:07 pm: |
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Yvettep,
It seems to me Tiger has spent his entire life being doted on because he was some great child prodigy. So I don't think he's ever really been required to focus on many issues that Black foks are made to concern themselves with.
So he's not going to be concerned about issues of Black crime, poverty, colorism, etc. In fact, probably the only times he's ever even been forced to deal with being (partly) Black is when the "Fuzzy Zoelers" of the world force him to.
However, it seems Obama has earnestly pursued his African and Black heritage, perhaps, in large part, to reconcile the departure of his father.
But there probably should be some credit given to Baraka's White mother. It's quite possible she encouraged him to pursue and embrace his African heritage. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2238
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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Well, ABM, if you read Baraka's autobiography---his white mother is barely mentioned at all.
In fact, many white readers complained bitterly about this.
Obama's father left his white mother and returned to KENYAN women. (Tiger's never seen his dad cuddled up with a black woman, and Earl SURELY down-talked black women and black people if all his sons married white.)
And it also stands that while Obama was missing his African father---his White EXTENDED FAMILY weren't really racially "prudent".
As well--no matter how his African relatives DOTED on him, he felt even more rejected by his African relatives, because of the "messages" that Africans will send that AAs will not/cannot send.
I'm certain he wanted to PROVE his affiliation with blackness to his AFRICAN kin...by choosing a woman who will continue THE BLOODBERRY.
I hear Obama's Kenyan relatives love his WIFE more than they do him.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5333
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
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Kola,
The African "messages" being that Baraka is not really or wholly Black?
And Baraka Kenyan relatives love his wife more than they do him because she is MORE Black than he is? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5334
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:29 pm: |
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Kola,
Why you suppose Baraka does not mention his mother in his autobiography? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2239
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:42 pm: |
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ABM,
Thomas is a sexist pig. Far worse than you. BUT...he does my bidding and the bidding of the village.
SO. He's really everything I always wanted.
I don't like a man that I can RUN OVER and rule.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2240
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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ABM---Baraka DOES mention his mother. But fleetingly.
And many whites felt that since SHE raised him, he would have her all throughout the book.
And yes---of course his Kenyan relatives have made him aware that he's "Half-Caste", though they might not say it out in public---I have no doubt, ESPECIALLY KENYANS who are IN KENYA, call him the usual things..."Our one good white baby", "our white lion", "Been-to child".
Africans LOVE their mixed offspring---just as I love and feel protective of Halle Berry---but they won't call them "black" or say "Kenyan".
So that the Bloodberry doesn't become "TOO CORRUPT"---a distinction must be made.
Naturally, slave people would have no such standards---and that's exactly how you continue to rule slaves.
In many ways---a mulatto is an ENVOY, a "Representative" who buffers and placates BOTH SIDES.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 04:51 pm: |
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When Africans say "Been-to"....it means "you've been somewhere outside Africa and come back".
My books are called "Been-to literature" by Africans.
SEAL is a "Been-to" singer.
Obama Barak is a "Been-to" child.
In other words...you are bringing back ACCULTURATION that is not purely African.
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 74
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:04 pm: |
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Kola-since we are on the subject of Africans vs African Americans, what do you think of this article by Lori Robinson?
Black Like Whom?
By: Lori S. Robinson, The New Crisis Posted: July 24
Immigration has made the Black population in the U.S. increasingly diverse; As a result, efforts, to address the culture clash within the African Diaspora are gaining priority.
Susan Petekkin-Bishop, a native of Kingston, Jamaica, journeyed to the United States, like many other immigrants, in search of education and career opportunities. She arrived in Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1981 at age 16, joining her mother who was struggling to earn a living as a domestic. Both were undocumented aliens.
Twenty-five years later, her quest for "a better life" has paid off. Peterkin-Bishop is a U.S. citizen and the proud owner of Jaha Hair Studio, a thriving natural hair care salon in Silver Spring, Md. The 41-year-old entrepreneur now employs three African Americans, two Trinidadians, two Sierra Leonians and a Jamaican. And 90 percent of her clients are African American.
"It's a space for everybody to get along and learn each other's culture," says Peterkin-Bishop. But before she created a work environment of cultural harmony, she had to adjust her own attitude.
"Growing up in Jamaica, basically what I heard about African Americans was that they were lazy, didn't want to do any work, were just sitting there waiting for the White man to give them something," she says. "But when I came here, I realized that it was not true."
Susan Peterkin-Bishop came to the United States from Jamaica 25 years ago. Today she owns a natural hair care salon in Silver Spring, Md., where she employs a fellow Jamaican, natives of Trinidad and Sierra Leone, as well as African Americans.
Susan Peterkin-Bishop came to the United States from Jamaica 25 years ago. Today she owns a natural hair care salon in Silver Spring, Md., where she employs a fellow Jamaican, natives of Trinidad and Sierra Leone, as well as African Americans.
She attributes her appreciation of the Black American experience to Diane Bailey, the owner of Tendrils Hair Spa in Brooklyn. Bailey hired Peterkin-Bishop as her first employee in 1984. Today the two are best friends.
"[Peterkin-Bishop] came with preconceived notions of the African American woman and I did not fit those expectations," says Bailey, 50. In addition to Peterkin-Bishop, a former employee from the West African nation of Guinea, also told Bailey she was unlike other Black Americans because she worked so hard.
"There is prejudice amongst ourselves," she says. "Instead of us working together, it separates us."
The steady rise of Black immigration from Africa, the Caribbean and Latin America has forced communities nationwide to confront the issues of intraracial diversity. As newcomers and African Americans encounter each other, misunderstanding, tension and even animosity can result.
"It's a really practical issue," says Jacqueline Copeland- Carson, 43, author of Creating Africa in America: Translocal Identity in an Emerging World City. "The groups that survive in the global economy are able to create more inclusive notions of cultural identity around which they can build."
Incentives for forging diverse Black coalitions abound. "If you look objectively at the issues that are affecting Black people throughout the world, it's our communities that have the highest concentration of HIV/AIDS, whether they're in Haiti or Zaire or Harlem. It's our communities that have the highest rates of poverty, whether they're in Rio or in New Orleans. It's our communities that have the highest rates of illiteracy and lack of access to quality education," Copeland-Carson says.
But several barriers are preventing the U.S.'s Black populations from consistently collaborating to address these common problems.
Widespread ignorance about the history of different ethnicities and nationalities, and a lack of understanding of how others define their own identity are major hurdles that thwart communication and breed mutual disrespect. In such an environment, it's easy for negative stereotypes to flourish. Worst of all, it's not uncommon for Black groups to perceive each other as economic and political threats.
As the U.S. Black population continues to diversify, some see the culture clash within the African Diaspora as an urgent priority. Individuals of varied professional backgrounds and national origins are taking on the challenge of bridging Black communities, with the goal of improving the quality of life for all.
POPULATION
"[There is] clearly undeniable diversity within the identity some people just call Blackness," says Copeland-Carson, also the director of the University of Minnesota's Hubert H. Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs.
African and Caribbean newcomers accounted for almost 25 percent of U.S. Black population growth during the 1990s, reports "Black Diversity in Metropolitan America," a 2003 study by the University at Albany's Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban and Regional Research.
The study also notes that the nation's Caribbean population grew more than 60 percent in the '90s and the sub-Saharan African population almost tripled.
And those groups represent only a portion of the Black population with recent roots outside the United States. In addition to 881,000 Africans and 1.4 million non-Hispanic Caribbean Blacks, 1 million Hispanics identified themselves as Black in the 2000 Census.
According to John Logan, co-author of the Mumford Center study, the striking growth of Black groups shows no signs of stopping, despite increased difficulties in emigrating since Sept. 11, 2001. "The main thing we can say about the last five years is that there's been a continuation of changes that we already saw underway in 2000," says Logan, a sociologist at Brown University. "Surely by 2010 we're going to see that the immigrant Black population is an even larger component."
Increasing Black diversity is transforming cities across the country. While Caribbean and African people were only 4.4 percent and 1.7 percent of the total U.S. Black population, respectively, they comprised more than a third of the Black population in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, FIa., and more than a quarter of the Black population in several other major cities including Boston.
The Caribbean population, concentrated along the East Coast, attracts newcomers to well-established communities, says Logan. He says that African immigrants are spread across the country having been recruited by graduate schools and employers in various regions. He adds that Africans who emigrate to the U.S. have comparatively higher education and income levels than African Americans because they would have to be highly motivated to raise the money necessary to travel, to obtain a U.S. visa and to have achieved the professional and academic standards sought by corporations and universities.
The Mumford Center study reveals that in the largest Caribbean population centers, including Miami and West Palm Beach. Fla., Haitians and Jamaicans are the predominant groups. In cities where the most Africans live, Washington, D.C., and Atlanta among them, Ghanaians and Nigerians are the largest groups.
Minneapolis, Copeland-Carson's home of 10 years, is an exception in more ways than one. East Africans are the largest group from the continent, and more Black ethnic groups are represented there than in any other urban center in the country. In the 2000 Census, Africans were 15 percent of the total Black population in Minneapolis, higher than any other city. In the 1990s, human rights and religious activists in the city sponsored the resettlement of East African immigrants fleeing political unrest. The Twin Cities area also attracted many immigrants during the '90s with a particularly low unemployment rate.
"The fact is African and Afro-Caribbean and Afro-Latin people are now part of our community," says Copeland-Carson. "So we have to figure out how we're going to be inclusive and at the same time, respect the different historical and cultural traditions that people bring to the table."
IDENTITY AND HISTORY
Eyebrows raise and doubt flashes across the faces of African Americans when Miriam Muly - a 40-something. Puerto Rican of African descent born and raised in Bronx, N.Y. - states her ethnic background. "It's almost like, 'You don't want to be an African American? You're disowning your Black roots?'" she says.
"I don't want to create the picture that there's been an antagonism. It's a disbelief," says Muly. "It's like, 'How could that be? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit any of the paradigms that I've been exposed to.'"
Muly believes the absence of Latinos with dark skin and African features in pop culture and the media is partially to blame. Inadequate education about the slave trade is another factor; Many people don't know that far more Africans were taken to Latin America than to North America.
For Eritrean immigrant Nunu Kidane, 48, an activist and development consultant for the Oakland-based Women of Color Resource Center, ignorance about identity has spawned animosity in interactions with Black Americans. When she worked as a waitress during college, her relationships with African American coworkers were full of tension and misunderstandings.
Kidane would tell them she was not Black, but Eritrean. "And they would say. 'When was the last time you looked in the mirror? Sister, you're Black.'" Kidane says. "What was missing from our dialogu\e was the fact that to me 'Black' or 'race' was not an identity. And this is true for many immigrants from Africa."
They come from majority-Black countries where identity is based on ethnic, language and geographic differences. Newcomers can feel slighted when it seems as if their ethnic identity is being ignored.
"Sometimes African Americans see Africa as [one] big country, but it's a continent and within those countries there's a great deal of diversity. So within a place like Nigeria, you have 250 ethnic groups and languages," says Copeland-Carson.
When some African immigrants are asked to indicate their identity on school or government paperwork, and they don't see their country of origin or ethnic group listed as a choice, they don't see themselves represented. According to Kidane. they might pick the "other" category because: "By 'Black.' they mean Black American. And that's not [how they see themselves]."
While many Black Americans believe that immigrants arrive with an understanding of the history of race in the United States. Kidane says, many newcomers arrive with little knowledge on the subject. This lack of knowledge, combined with a desire to keep themselves separate in order to maintain their culture, can contribute to hostility or poor communication.
"The minute we get off that plane. African immigrants are different than any other immigrants because of the preceding history of this country with race," she says. "[Immigrants] need to know that Black identity is a key factor to who you are in America."
In an effort to give her home continent increased visibility in the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001, Kidane and other San Francisco Bay area activists held a forum called "Making Africa a Priority" in April 2003. The organizers quickly realized an ongoing strategy was needed to address prevalent schisms between African Americans and Black immigrants. The forum and other programs snowballed into the Priority Africa Network, a volunteer organization that hosts guest speakers and community dialogues every two months.
Among the goals of Priority Africa Network are teaching African Americans and Black newcomers about each other's history and helping immigrants understand "what it means to be Black in America," says Kidane.
Preserving the culture of one's homeland and taking on a Black American identity don't have to be mutually exclusive, according to Kidane. She says adapting a broader self-identity is "the key that will determine our future."
Muly explains how her Black identity, firmly rooted in the culture of her parents' birthplace, Puerto Rico, has gone global.
"When kente cloth was real popular, I was all over that. I had kente cloth dinnerware [and] developed products that had a kente cloth motif. My husband and I went to [Senegal] a couple of years ago. We brought back a lot of African art. Our home is decorated with mud cloth and African statues," she says. "But then if you listen to our music, it's very much the old Orquesta Harlow or Willie Coln, Puerto Rican artists. It's a real mix."
Like Kidane, Muly is committed to raising awareness. Her primary effort is The 85% Niche, a marketing consultancy based in Grosse Pointe Farms, Mich., that she founded to help major corporations communicate with women from diverse backgrounds. And this year, she is involved in the 30th anniversary of New York's Caribbean Cultural Center, a nonprofit organization that documents and educates people about African-descended cultures. The center will celebrate with a yearlong schedule of concerts and conferences designed to accomplish the anniversary's theme: "Making the Invisible Visible."
NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES
When some African Americans asked Kelvin Sauls, a 39-year-old South African, about his encounters with Tarzan, he told them, "You have been closer to Tarzan than I've been, because Tarzan was created in Southern California.
"A lot of folks, especially African Americans, don't have knowledge around the fact that in Africa there are cities, there are skyscrapers, there are streets," says Sauls, pastor of Downs Memorial United Methodist Church in Oakland. "When you get off the plane, you don't jump in the jungle. You go on the tarmac and you go and claim your luggage."
Copeland-Carson encountered many such negative beliefs during a two-year study at the Cultural Wellness Center, the multi-cultural health organization in Minneapolis. They include: "[Africans believing] African Americans are intellectually inferior, more prone to violence and criminality. African Americans believing that Africans are savage, uncivilized, backwards, prone to violence."
According to Copeland-Carson, some members of various Black ethnic and national groups espouse the same kinds of racist stereotypes in existence since slavery and colonization.
"None of us can say in all honesty that we didn't have any perceptions of African Americans before we came," Kidane says of African immigrants. Just as beautician Peterkin-Bishop heard in Jamaica, Kidane has heard many Africans say: "Black people have been in America for a long time but haven't really taken advantage of job opportunities. And of course, it's all their fault because the opportunities are there and they're just not taking them."
While Kidane believes mainstream media plays a major role in perpetuating negative images, she says police across the country have helped open immigrants' eyes. She frequently hears anecdotes of African victims of racial profiling. For example, a Senegalese man was visiting with a White friend in a wealthy Chicago neighborhood. One day, screaming police officers pinned him to the ground with guns pointed at his head. He was released only after his host was reached at home by telephone and confirmed his guest's identity.
Many immigrants don't believe there is racism in the United States until such an incident happens to them, she says.
POLITICS AND ECONOMICS
When Jewel Hanson Scott, a Jamaican immigrant, got a job as an attorney in New York, a few members of the support staff were disappointed that a foreign-born lawyer had been hired. She says, "Some African American support staff couldn't understand why I was in the position" instead of a Black American.
Years later, her family moved to Jonesboro, Ga. Incensed by discriminatory practices, Hanson Scott decided to run for Clayton County district attorney in 2004. Preying on the fears of some African Americans that immigrants are a threat to jobs, one of her opponents mailed a campaign flyer to voters in the majority-African American district announcing Hanson Scott's country of origin.
The tactic failed and she won with 62 percent of the vote - unseating the White male incumbent who had held the post for 27 years. "What mattered was that I was campaigning on the basis of bringing a system that was fair and just." says 45-year-old Hanson Scott.
The attitudes she encountered wouldn't surprise Sauls. "[African Americans] have to deal with that tension. 'Am I a full citizen in this country or am I a guest in this country?' If you see yourself as a guest, you will definitely feel challenges when another guest arrives because you think they will take your place." he says.
Feeding anxiety about job competition may be the reality that Black African and Caribbean immigrants tend to have higher levels of education and income than African Americans, according to the Mumford Center study. And Logan reports there is other research that shows Whites prefer to hire foreign-born Blacks over African Americans because they believe immigrants work harder.
"There is competition for resources and political attention." says Copeland-Carson. "That's particularly true in the segments of our respective communities that are struggling economically."
For her. the need for political coalition building, as was achieved by Hanson Scott and her supporters, is a no-brainer.
"It's really critical because collectively we're just stronger than we are as our own fragmented, individual communities." Copeland- Carson says. "(We)'re not building upon the strength and resources right underneath our noses. For example, in Minnesota we would have much more political influence if we attempted to work together more collectively."
COMING TOGETHER
Sauls considers breaking down barriers between Black ethnic groups to be a part of his ministerial duty. Every Black History Month, Downs Memorial hosts a cultural group from Africa, and he makes sure guest performers stay in African American homes.
Sauls was in the United States for several years before he received such hospitality.
He left his hometown of Johannesburg to study at Hiwassee College in Madisonville, Term., in 1990. He spent his first Christmas in the United States at the home of a White classmate.
"Every school break when our chaplain would ask. 'Can any students take some of our international students home?' the African Americans wouldn't sign up," he says.
"We need to create opportunities to allow African immigrants and African Americans to connect in intentional and impactful ways around cultural sharing." says Sauls. "We ought to allow our homes, our offices, our congregations, to become reconciliation stations every opportunity we get."
Sauls also considers international travel a valuable tool in the process of unifying Black communities. He leads study tours to a different region in Africa every other year so that African Americans can leam about the continent firsthand. Last year, he took 29 Black Americans to his birthplace.
"We went from the suburbs to the townships, from the apartheid museum to restaurants owned by Blacks." he says.
"Out of these trips there's always some project that African Americans choose to adopt or sponsor that provides people with continued contact and connection."
Even Downs Memorial's Girl Scout troupe wants to see Africa for themselves.
"I was just so moved by that, the fact that you have seventh graders coming and saying, 'When are you taking us to Africa?'" he says. "That means for me they have seen a different side of our experience, a positive aspect around Africa."
Says Copeland-Carson. "More work needs to be done to increase the numbers of everyday Black people who define this as their agenda, as well as understand how it's associated with their personal benefit and the future of our communities."
Sauls has incorporated raising awareness and building coalitions into the mission of his church. Peterkin-Bishop and Bailey have done it in their hair salons. And educational events hosted by organizations like the Caribbean Cultural Center in New York, TransAfrica Forum in Washington, D.C.. and Priority Africa Network in the San Francisco Bay area give Black people of all national and ethnic backgrounds year-round opportunities to build a shared identity.
But Copeland-Carson believes an even more comprehensive strategy is necessary "to equip ourselves to be good partners." She hopes a nationwide dialogue on intraracial diversity will be led by a Black national and community-based organization.
Whether or not her vision materializes, how well Black groups collaborate ultimately may be determined by how willing individuals are to embrace across cultures.
According to Sauls, that's the most important action a Black person can take.
Miriam Muly, a Puerto RJcan of African descent, says eyebrows raise when she States her background. "It's almost like, 'You dont want to be an African American?'"
Miriam Muly, a marketing consultant in Cross Pointe Farms, Mich., helps corporations communicate with women of diverse backgrounds.
Nunu Kidane, an Eritrean immigrant, says "What was missing from the dialogue with [African Americans] was the fact that to me 'Black' or 'race' was not an identity."
Nunu Kidane is an activist and development consultant for the Women of Color Resource Center in Oakland, Ca.
Kelvin Sauls, who is South African, says "A lot of African Americans dont [know] that in Africa there are cities, there are skyscrapers, there streets."
Kelvin Sauls, a pastor in Oakland, Calif., views breaking down barriers between Black ethnic groups as part of his ministerial duties.
Jacqueline Copeland-Carson: "We have to be inclusive and respect the different histories and cultural traditions people bring to the table."
Jacqueline Copeland-Carson is director of the University of Minnesota's Hubert H. Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs and author of Creating Africa in America.
Lori S. Robinson, a freelance journalist in Detroit, is author of I Will Survive: The African American Guide to Healing from Sexual Assault and Abuse. She reported on Black-Latino relations in the January/February 2004 issue of The Crisis.
Copyright Crisis Publishing Company, Incorporated Jan/Feb 2006
(c) 2006 New Crisis, The. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5336
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:17 pm: |
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Kola,
Most African Americans can NOT in any meaningful way connect their skin color, hair, build, & general disposition and temperment to Africa. And, worse, some who can do so such do not WANT to.
How do you inspire foks to want to be Black when the only thing they have to relate to such is slavery, colonialism and racism?
I often think the first step that Black people as a whole - be they in Africa, America, Europe or Asia - must take is to ACCEPT the fact that they were defeated. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2251
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:29 pm: |
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Robyn Marie, I'm on RELAX today. I just don't have time to read all of that.
But I basically divide ALL BLACK PEOPLE into two groups----(a)formerly enslaved or colonialized blacks vs. (b)Free Blacks.
*American Free blacks don't count, because they were usually mulatto and lived within the same slave system as slaves did.
Then you have the (a) Authentic Blacks vs. the (b) Coloureds and Half-Castes.
It should be noted that ALL BLACKS in the "Western Hemisphere" (America, the Carribean, S. America) are of a "Slave Acculturation".
They are SIMILAR to "Colonized" Africans.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2252
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:33 pm: |
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ABM:
I often think the first step that Black people as a whole - be they in Africa, America, Europe or Asia - must take is to ACCEPT the fact that they were defeated.
KOLA:
Your wisdom is boundless, and that's what I've been saying for a long time.
Look at my country Sudan---there's nothing left of it.
It's gone forever and can never be regained.
SUDAN, the home of Nubia and Cush, is truly a defeated nation.
EGYPT was defeated before it.
BUT WE WHO CAME FROM THAT DEFEAT...we can give birth to a new victory.
This is why my heroin-addicted Arab father named me "the one who is victorious" and forbid me to ever bare children by a Non-Black man.
He taught me: "White supremacy is the world's only true religion...and by it, Africa has been devoured and dishonored."
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5337
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:42 pm: |
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Kola,
We've spent 100's of years explaining why we are where we are, blaming White people, blaming and hating each other, etc.
Where has it gotten us?
No where.
One of the reasons why I harp on mastery in math and sciences because discovery and invention offer the opportunity to thwart and transcend the past. To claim victory where before there had been defeat.
Perhaps there was a time when my enemy was bigger and stronger...
...and better.
But that need not forever be. My Black brother and sister, it need NOT forever be. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2256
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:46 pm: |
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Hey,
I'm with you ABM.
We need to CLONE you and have this message given by a MALE...because these young boys would be more apt to listen or internalize that message.
I think you are TOTALLY RIGHT about what our next step as a people should be.
I wish I wasn't so dumb in those areas, however.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5339
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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Kola,
My sister-in-law is dating a guy who was born in Africa. Dude is Black. I mean REEEEAAALLL BLACK.
He and I talk a lot. He's a smart, sharp and agressive guy. We seem to agree on a lot of things. So I think we're going to work on some business things together.
Funny.
I often find myself looking at him and wondering what it feels like to REALLY be...BLACK. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2260
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 05:57 pm: |
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My birth mother was that black.
It's not like being our brown color, ABM.
That's what I keep trying to get "coloured/mixed" folk to see.
You can scream we're all the same, one color...all you want.
But there is an EXPERIENCE that Alek Wek and Beyonce do not and can never share.
TOO MUCH MIXING....separates and divides us.
Not the "issue" of such.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5341
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 06:05 pm: |
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Kola,
I have to step away for a little while. But we'll continue this a little later.
K, babe? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2262
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 06:08 pm: |
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LOL. OK
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 5348
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 07:27 am: |
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Kola,
I'm NOT a polemic of the mixing of races, colors and creed. Moreover, I think there is only so much of the past customs, religions and philosophies people who live in a CHANGING world should be made to bear.
But I will always rebut the wholesale castigation and demonization of that which is Black and African. Because it would be foolish for me, a person of African descent, to do otherwise. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 242
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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african men just want to use our beautiful women for sex. any black american woman, west indian woman, south american black woman who would would lay down with an ugly african is just plain stupid. |
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