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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 196
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:41 pm: | 
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I've heard this statement before. But I'd like to know how & why?
What did Blacks orginally practice before Christianity? |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 04:48 am: |
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Not getting into the whole Jesus was black or brass skined issue but from what I know about christianity today its a Europeanized form of a Semetic religion. Historically the founding and organzing of Christian theology is pretty void of any Africa influence. Most of what is christianity today (Protestantism and Catholicism) was pretty much founded and orgainzed by white people and for the most part for white people. There is Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity which is older than Catholicism but still it wasn't founded in Africa it was a transplant faith. And in terms of what black people practiced before christianity, there were a variety of traditional tribal/and or local faiths from Animism (not animal worship but believng everything has a spirit) to forms of Shamanism, organized polythiestic religions with Gods and Goddesses, and countless other forms of spiritual expressions. Alot of pre-slavery Africans also practiced Islam, but that is also a transpalnt religion into Africa. |
Riverchild
Newbie Poster
Username: Riverchild
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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Before the Europeans and missionaries landed on West African shores with Christianity, many African societies either worshipped deities, idols and gods; or were Islamic; or were atheists. We already had our own religions. So, Christianity is truly a white man's religion. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2137
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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The Ethiopians were Christians and Jews. They were probably Christian before many Europeans.
All of North Africa was Christian when it was ruled by the Byzantines. In fact, some of the churches in North Africa rivaled the ones at Constantinople and Rome in prestige.
I don't think there were many, if any Christians in West Africa, where most of us are from before the Europeans came. The Muslims had come, and the rest were animists and practitioners of polytheist faiths. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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When did North Africa become White? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2141
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Brownbeauty:
Huh? |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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I heard that North Africa was completely White. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4360
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 01:12 pm: |
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IMO, when it comes to religion, Christianity and all of its variations evolved into idol worshipping paganism, more about myth and ritual than truth and reality. The masses were too dense to conceive of the invisible abstract god completely spiritual and ultimately forgiving in nature, - the entity that Jesus preached about. The peasants needed tangibles and intimidation to scare the hell out of them in order for The Church leaders to maintain control. The Buddha told folks that god resided in the individual,and this idea spawned a cult of inscrutable Orientials who have always been able to think circles around Western man. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1220
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
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Brownbeauty:
North Africa is not "white" as in northern europe . . . but it is certainly not "black" as in sub-saharan Africa. Algerians, for example, are a mix of Arabs and Berbers (indigenous to Algeria). While "color" is certainly a factor, the history of colonialism, that has contributed to this question of color, must be consulted.
Algerians were colonized by the French. And, as we know, Algerians in France have been victims of racism. This is not, of course, to create some kind of hierarchy of oppression nor to equate their oppression to that of black Africans' but to distinguish them from "white" Euro-American people.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2147
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 02:38 pm: |
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Yukio:
Thank you.
Brownbeauty:
Now you see why we are in the shape we are in. Next you'll be saying Mao Tse Tung was white. |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 12:06 am: |
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Your pretty much right Yukio, but lets not forgot that North Africa was inhabited by various groups throughout history. As you have mentioned Arabs and Berbers but also even more ancient the Pheonicians (Syrian/Lebanese) and at one time a Roman colony with the fall of Carthage, so its always been a meeting place of different peoples. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4565
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 12:12 am: |
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One's religion is based on one thing and one thing only: What he or she BELIEVES.
One's faith is whatever he or she wants it to be. A Black man is no more less eligible to be Christian than he is to be Jewish, Muslim or Animist. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 159
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 03:50 am: |
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I thought that for one to be Jewish, one's mother had to be Jewish. One cannot just wake up one day and decide to become Jewish or follow Judaism. Early Christianity was created for Gentiles (sp?) by the early Romans. All they had to do was incooporate their Roman beliefs into this new belief system called Christianity. An example being include their ancient belief in Isis and her son Horous as Mary and her son Jesus. These early Roman bishops (who were roman temple priests) decided which books should be included into the New Testament (ie. luke, john, etc) and which should be excluded like the gospel of Mary Magdaline or Gospel of Judas. So Christianity was basically suited for Europeans because it in-cooperated their ancient belief systems. The only Christianity that I know of and is being practiced in Brazil includes West African dieties as Saints. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4568
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 08:51 am: |
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Anunaki3600,
One can become a Jew by faith, if not by birth. The late African American entertainer Sammy Davis Jr. became a Jew.
And there's NOTHING within the Bible that precludes one who is not of European heritage from being a Christian. There's no racial or geographical proscriptions for being Christian. If one believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ and accept Christ as his-her personal savior, he-she is a Christian. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2152
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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Abm:
But black people will have to go to their own separate heaven--I seen it on "Green Pastures" with their own separate Lawd. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 332
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 06:30 pm: |
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In my opinion,what a person believes is secondary to why they believe it.I could become a druid if I choose to, but I don't think that druidism would cause the world to make more sense to me.Most black people that claim christianity as their religion do not do so as the result of a seeking to fill a void, comparing and contrasting different religions and then selecting christianity from the list of options as the one that seems to work best for them.Black people are christian because their mother was christian and she was pumping the child's head full of righteous, god-fearing ideas from the cradle.She got the ideas in a very similar manner and if you track it back to the point of origin, that will be the white slave owner that found the religious practises of his slaves to be quite barbaric and completely unacceptable.Bearing in mind that mythology is the religion of a conquered people and that religion is the mythology of conquerers, one must ask how imparting this religion to the slaves would facilitate their domination.The answer is obvious.It makes them more docile and willing to accept adversity as the will of god that would otherwise cause them to revolt.So, it seems to me that christianity is indeed the white man's religion, and that it was thrust upon our ancestors for clear reasons with a specific goals in mind.Since the accomplishment of those goals is not in the best interests of me or my people, I really don't see how I can participate in good conscience and am duty bound to encourage my brothers and sisters to think that one through a little more thoroughly than many have in the past. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1228
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 06:52 pm: |
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that is right. . . the issue is, that religion has been a tool of exploitation, that our embrace of Christianity is part and parcel of cultural imperialism . . . this is as true for mexicans and catholicism as it is for senegalese and islam . . . yet, I think, we and other oppressed groups have changed the religion so that it fits our culture. This doesn't change, however, the fact that it is not our original form of spiritual expression and more importantly that it was a tool of oppression. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 79
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 08:36 pm: |
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"I've heard this statement before. But I'd like to know how & why?"
Read the bible yourself and decide.
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Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 80
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
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The bible in no way supports white supremecy. |
Shyfox
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Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 81
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 09:49 pm: |
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Face it, the oppressors took the word of God and twisted for their own selfish ends. Why do you think it was so important to them to keep blacks ignorant and illiterate. If blacks were able to read the bible for themselves, they would have known that the garbage being fed to them about being docile and resigned to their condition was contrary to the will and the word of God.
If the slaves would have been allowed to learn to read, they would have read how the practice of man stealing was absolutely forbidden by God. Nowhere in the bible does God encourage and state that whites were allowed to steal people from their homes and families and sell them as merchandise. Nor is there permission for any of the other abominable practices perpetrated upon black people in this country.
I don't know why the lies of these bigots reign so prominantly in the minds of some of our people that they are willing to give them credence over and above the truth that is the word of the living God. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 333
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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Yukio, it seems that they are willing to allow some latitude for the conquered to adjust the forms and rites to suit their ancestral customs as long as the important points remain intact, such as, since the next life will be paradise for the pure of heart you don't need to get too worried about trying to change this one and how, since god judges your oppressors far more harshly than you ever could you don't really need to be too active in trying to overthrow them now.As long as essential points like those go unchanged, then the details don't really matter.Let a large group of hispanic catholics start monkeying around with these and see how long it takes for them to be branded as heritics and, if they remain unrepentant,excommunicated and barred from eternal bliss. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 161
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 03:49 am: |
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Abm: I thought that one of Sammy Davis Jr.'s parent was a Jew, most likely his father, thus, the Jewish community accepting him as one of their own.
Yukio, you are on the mark with "religion used as a tool of exploitation".
An old African saying during the colonial period:
"When the White man first came to Africa, he had the Bible in his hand and we had the LAND"
He then asked us to close our eyes and pray with HIM. When we open our eyes.
"We had the Bible in our hand and HE had the LAND" |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 09:27 am: |
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"An old African saying during the colonial period:
"When the White man first came to Africa, he had the Bible in his hand and we had the LAND"
He then asked us to close our eyes and pray with HIM. When we open our eyes.
"We had the Bible in our hand and HE had the LAND""
Always read the contract before signing it. that's just common sense. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2160
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 01:53 pm: |
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Shyfox:
The Bible supports anything you want. White folks long excuse our slavery based on Noah's curse on Canaan--and there it is. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 02:48 pm: |
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Canaan is not the ancestor of black people. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 338
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 05:51 pm: |
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Not to be nit picking, Chris, but it's normally the mark of Cain that they go to in order to justify keeping their foot on our necks.Cain committed the crime of murdering his brother, so god told him he had to go and he said that he couldn't go because anyone that saw him would kill him so god put a mark on him.Many white folks believe that god turned him into nigger so that anyone that saw him would know that he had been cursed by god, and consequently, all niggers are cursed by god.
I wonder who Cain was worried about?God created Adam, then took a rib from Adam and made Eve.They had two sons.One of the sons killed the other one.That leaves two people besides Cain on the whole planet.If he gets away from those two, he's home free.Well, he picked up a wife somewhere.One would think that the world was populated before Adam was created.But, that can't be right, can it? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4574
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 05:57 pm: |
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Rusty says "I wonder who Cain was worried about?God created Adam, then took a rib from Adam and made Eve.They had two sons.One of the sons killed the other one.That leaves two people besides Cain on the whole planet.If he gets away from those two, he's home free.Well, he picked up a wife somewhere.One would think that the world was populated before Adam was created.But, that can't be right, can it?"
All dayam!
There you go pointing out one of the (myriad) Biblical fallacies and paradoxes. The holy rollers gone git you fer dat! |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 07:19 pm: |
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If he gets away from those two, he's home free.Well, he picked up a wife somewhere.One would think that the world was populated before Adam was created.But, that can't be right, can it?
Adam and Eve were the first; the bible didn't say that they were the only people created by God. You have to remember that a number of years passed between the time that Adam and Eve were created and the time of the first murder. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:02 am: |
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"Not to be nit picking, Chris, but it's normally the mark of Cain that they go to in order to justify keeping their foot on our necks.Cain committed the crime of murdering his brother, so god told him he had to go and he said that he couldn't go because anyone that saw him would kill him so god put a mark on him.Many white folks believe that god turned him into nigger so that anyone that saw him would know that he had been cursed by god, and consequently, all niggers are cursed by god."
If our ancestors were allowed to become literate, they would have been able to read the bible for themselves; and if they had, they would have discovered that there Cain has no descendants. They all drowned in the great flood. Noah is a descendant of Seth, Adam and Eve's third son. It was Noah and his sons and their wives who repopulated the earth after the flood.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4576
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 06:27 am: |
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Shyfox says: "Adam and Eve were the first; the bible didn't say that they were the only people created by God. You have to remember that a number of years passed between the time that Adam and Eve were created and the time of the first murder."
Who and what were these other "people created by God"? Are you asserting that Adam and Eve are NOT the ancestors of ALL of humankind? If so, that's a fairly unique Biblical position; I think. And if they are NOT our only ancestors, why have we all been made to bear the brunt of their "original sin"? |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 339
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 06:48 am: |
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Abm, how that story normally goes is that is that Adam and Eve also had a butt-load of sons and daughters that weren't mentioned, since Cain was the only one to do anything noteworthy,and by the time Cain took Abel out and had to leave with his wife/sister, they had populated the continent.
It will be interesting to hear how she determined with such certainty that none of Noah's son's wives were descendants of Cain.The reason that many white folks believe that the mark of Cain was being black is that some ancient manuscripts tell of how, all of a sudden, not only could Cain sing, but he could dance as good as he wanted to. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4577
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 07:42 am: |
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Genesis 4:17
“Cain knew his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to ENOCH. He built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, ENOCH.”
Genesis 4:18
“To ENOCH was born Irad. Irad became the father of Mehujael. Mehujael became the father of Methushael. Methushael became the father of LAMECH.”
Genesis 5:30
“LAMECH lived after he became the father of NOAH five hundred ninety-five years, and became the father of sons and daughters.”
Now. Unless I am misinterpreting the above, Noah is the descendant of Cain. And if Noah and his immediate kin were the only human beings to survive the Flood, then ALL of human kind are descendents of CAIN. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 341
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 08:42 am: |
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Imagine that. |
Shyfox
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Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 86
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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"Genesis 4:17
“Cain knew his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to ENOCH. He built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, ENOCH.”
Genesis 4:18
“To ENOCH was born Irad. Irad became the father of Mehujael. Mehujael became the father of Methushael. Methushael became the father of LAMECH.”
Genesis 5:30
“LAMECH lived after he became the father of NOAH five hundred ninety-five years, and became the father of sons and daughters.”
Now. Unless I am misinterpreting the above, Noah is the descendant of Cain. And if Noah and his immediate kin were the only human beings to survive the Flood, then ALL of human kind are descendents of CAIN."
You are misinterpreting and are way off the mark.
Genesis 5:1-32. The descendants of Noah.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:
13And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
The fact that there was a city for Cain to flee to and that he feared what other people would do to him, shows that there were other people created by God. This is just common sense and really should not require any explanation.
Adam is referred to in scripture as a son of God because he was not born of a woman but was created from "scratch" by God. In Genesis, there is a passage describing how the sons of God mated with the daughters of men to produce a race of supermen. That should tell you that there were other men and women created in the same manner as Adam and Eve.
All people are descended from Adam and Eve, but not through Cain-but through Seth. Noah and his family were the only people spared during the great flood. All other people on earth drowned, that includes the descendants of Cain.
Noah is a descendant of Adam and Eve, and it was given to him, his sons and their wives to repopulate the earth. Therefore, all mankind is descended from Adam and Eve.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4579
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 03:05 pm: |
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Shyfox,
Perhaps my error in tying Cain to Noah stems from there apparently being some sharing of given names amongst Cain's and Seth's descendants.
THAT is the ONLY explanation for why there would be no connection between Cain and Noah.
And please forgive my lacking the "common sense" to know that GOD had created MORE than one coupling of "Adam and Eve". I imagine, though, I am amongst MANY who share THAT particular failing. |
Shyfox
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Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 04:39 pm: |
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"Shyfox,
Perhaps my error in tying Cain to Noah stems from there apparently being some sharing of given names amongst Cain's and Seth's descendants.
THAT is the ONLY explanation for why there would be no connection between Cain and Noah.
And please forgive my lacking the "common sense" to know that GOD had created MORE than one coupling of "Adam and Eve". I imagine, though, I am amongst MANY who share THAT particular failing."
My goodness, but you fellas are touchy. Your error in tying Cain to Noah stems from the fact that you skipped some verses in the bible to do so and simply played match the name. It's not uncommon for a number of people to have the same name. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4580
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 06:02 pm: |
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Shyfox,
Okay. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 342
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:27 am: |
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I must confess that this is a spin on it that you don't hear very often.Usually that version includes one of Noah's son's wives being a descendant of Cain's to allow room for a race of Chosen, such the aryans, and the seed of the devil, that being us.They also use that business in the gospel of John, the 8th chapter I think, where it says that certain jews that believed in Jesus approached him and he antagonized them ruthlessly, calling them the children of the devil and that they would never have any part of the kingdom of heaven and kept on insulting them until they wanted to stone him to assert that for some folks it doesn't matter whether the believe or not.They're just plain defective and god hated them as a people before they were ever born.But there is a,fortunately small, following of that belief.At least that system, to it's credit, doesn't make the ridiculous assertion that the world is only 6000 years old and is trying to make sense out of nonsense.But it usually props up some sort of this or that supremecy doctrine. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 345
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:58 am: |
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Come to think of it, this is the first time that I've ever heard a black person take that position.Not like I've interviewed all black people or even a perceptible percentage for that matter, but I've never heard a black person embrace this particular doctrine, which is only marginally supported by the bible at best, and the logical conclusion being that some of these defectives are still around somewhere. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 90
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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"Come to think of it, this is the first time that I've ever heard a black person take that position.Not like I've interviewed all black people or even a perceptible percentage for that matter, but I've never heard a black person embrace this particular doctrine, which is only marginally supported by the bible at best, and the logical conclusion being that some of these defectives are still around somewhere."
What are you talking about? I did not take the positition that you outlined in your post. You sir, are intellectually dishonest. There is no point in debating with you if you keep trying to put words into my mouth that I did not speak. If you can't support your position, at least say so graciously. And if you have proof that the earth is older than 6000 years, then you need to bring it on. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 91
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:36 am: |
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My interpretation: Adam and Eve, where the first people created by God. They were not conceived by a man and a woman and born in the same way that we were. They were created by God Himself, fully grown. That does not mean that He did not create other people in the same way.
Genesis6:1 AND IT came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughter of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
This race of supermen died in the flood along with all of the other inhabitants on earth. they left no descendants, so the white supremecists who rant and rave taking that line are full of it.
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Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 347
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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Shyfox, I did not mean that you personally buy into the whole package of what I said.Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you here,but it is my impression that you believe there were, at some point, people walking around on the earth that were not direct descendants of Adam and Eve.I went on to say that normally, when I've heard people make that assertion, they also believe the rest of what I said.I did not mean to put words in your mouth, and it is reassuring to hear you say that you do not hold the rest of that package to be true.This is however, the first time that I've ever heard a black person say that they believe there were people that were not descendants of Adam and Eve.
As far as evidence of the age of the earth goes, the sheer volume of it is staggering.From the fossilized marine life in the bed rock on top of the himalayan mountains to countless radio carbon datings of items to the rate and direction of the continental drift to back-tracking the velocity, accelleration and direction of the expansion of the universe.There is no major branch of science that isn't loaded down with evidence.The bottom layer of buildings in the city of Jericho is about 8000 years old.The list is endless.If you go to a book store, go to any non-fiction section, close your eyes and start walking down the aisle, stick out your arm and randomly grab three books, at least one of them will contain evidence of the age of the earth in it. |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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What people believe is what they believe and there is nothing you can really do to force them to accept reality as it is. To me the whole story of Adam and Eve is about as relavant as Jack and the beanstock and sleeping beauty, its a fairy tale. It's a story that was created so people could understand the world around them and make some sense of it. Most of the bible is written in metaphore also, which most literalists should really take a strong look at lol. People believe what they want to believe if they choose to deny logic and immerse themselves in fairy tales it's there choice. In other news I am finally done with exams so there is much partying to be done and then start work! |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 07:32 pm: |
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Like Rustang said anyone who doubts the age of earth needs to open a book pronto! I think the earth being about 4 billion+ years old is pretty much accepted by ALL of science (and no creationism in not science). |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 92
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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It is up to each individual to decide whether they believe the Word of God or the slander of the cynic. The best explanation that the doubters have for the origin of life and all of the intracies of our world, solar systems, bodies, etcetera is that there was some gigantic cosmis explosion that was not caused by anything. Now that sounds life a fairy tale to me.
Everything suggests the existence of an intelligent creator. None of us can take credit for ourselves, our world or anything else. It is simply idiotic to think that life, the world, space, the planets, everything just happened for no reason. Now, what I find hilarious is that you and Rustang put so much credence into these books written by men about radio carbon dating. I hope that all of them are worded exactly alike. Because if not, that would surely crush Rustang's belief in radio carbon dating. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 93
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 08:07 pm: |
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There are just as many books out there that point out the fallacies of radio carbon dating and other dating practices of those who argue for an ancient earth. I suggest that you guys "open" your eyes and go to your local book store or library. The search for truth requires you to conduct your search with your eyes open. Because if you have found your truth by the methods you suggest, then no wonder you guys are still in the dark. |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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Shyfox, there is nobody here denying that some force out there created everything,truth is no one knows. The problem is with your assertion that your truth is the ONLY truth and everyone else are just slandering what you consider to be fact. Your problem is not that I am slandering the word of God, your problem is that your not mature enough to accept the fact that you can't prove any of God's so called words, and that goes for ALL people of faith that adhere to some man made text as the revealed truth. It's about being an adult and accpeting the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT when it comes to God and what he/she/it has said, done, or revealed. But when you claim that some ancient story is the revealed truth for ALL of humanity, you just come off a little childish and crazy not to mention ignorant and scary. And in terms of the big bang theory sounding like some fairy tale and radio carbon dating inaccurate (there are various forms of dating by the way) I can understand your skepticism and accepit it as a valid hypothesis providing you can prove your claims. The only difference between science and what you call "God's truth" is that science can be proven but more importantely it can be DISPROVEN. If something does not have those two crucial qualities then its not science and yes NOT rooted in this universe. I might not be able to disprove that Adam and Eve weren't real just as I can't disprove that Jack never went up that giant beanstock and killed a giant. That's what makes them stories and set apart from the real world, your whole paradigm seems skewed. I find it soo funny that you emphasised the fact science books were written by men, when what you claim to be God's truth was also written by men, I truely wonder if you've ever heard of something called historical criticism. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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?!?! The bible was written by men and not by god?
Dang, and I was hoping to get an autographed copy somewhere.... surely if he wrote it, he wouldn't mind signing it.
Anyways.....carry on. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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?!?! The bible was written by men and not by god?
Dang, and I was hoping to get an autographed copy somewhere.... surely if he wrote it, he wouldn't mind signing it.
Anyways.....carry on. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 94
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
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Abdi85: "Shyfox, there is nobody here denying that some force out there created everything,truth is no one knows. The problem is with your assertion that your truth is the ONLY truth and everyone else are just slandering what you consider to be fact. Your problem is not that I am slandering the word of God, your problem is that your not mature enough to accept the fact that you can't prove any of God's so called words, and that goes for ALL people of faith that adhere to some man made text as the revealed truth."
Shyfox: You cannot disprove God's word. Until you have some concrete proof that He does not exist, I think that all of your emoting comes off as nothing more than paranoid ranting.
Abdi85: "And in terms of the big bang theory sounding like some fairy tale and radio carbon dating inaccurate (there are various forms of dating by the way) I can understand your skepticism and accepit it as a valid hypothesis providing you can prove your claims. The only difference between science and what you call "God's truth" is that science can be proven but more importantely it can be DISPROVEN."
Shyfox: If you cannot disprove God's truth, why do you hold that it is a fairytale. Not very consistent are you.
Abdi85: "If something does not have those two crucial qualities then its not science and yes NOT rooted in this universe. I might not be able to disprove that Adam and Eve weren't real just as I can't disprove that Jack never went up that giant beanstock and killed a giant. That's what makes them stories and set apart from the real world, your whole paradigm seems skewed."
Shyfox: Jack and Jill, huh? Okay. Let's talk skewed. You admit that there are limits to sciece and to human knowledge and yet you cannot accept that there is anyting other than science to explain those things that science cannot. You whole notion that if something does not fit into the neat little box of science it does not exist. There are many things that science has been unable to prove or disprove about the human body; yet people continue to be born, to live, and to die. So just because science cannot prove every thing about life and living, we are all suppose to just give up and die. Not me!
Abdi85: "It's about being an adult and accpeting the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT when it comes to God and what he/she/it has said, done, or revealed."
Shyfox: I am supposed to be impressed by your cussing? Give me a break. I know what He has revealed to me. You simply choose not to know what He has revealed. That's your choice.
Abdi85: "But when you claim that some ancient story is the revealed truth for ALL of humanity, you just come off a little childish and crazy not to mention ignorant and scary."
Shyfox: You are the ignorant one. Not to mention evil and scary. Be it on your own head.
Abdi85: "That's what makes them stories and set apart from the real world, your whole paradigm seems skewed. I find it soo funny that you emphasised the fact science books were written by men, when what you claim to be God's truth was also written by men, I truely wonder if you've ever heard of something called historical criticism."
Shyfox: And I wonder if you have every heard of anything called contending for the faith. You come out with your five dollars words and your limited, nonexistent knowledge about life, the universe, the Lord and you try to formulate arguments to prove that he does not exist. It doesn't work. The bible has been around for thousands of years, and smarter people than you have tried to disprove it's accuracy and have failed miserably. You call me childish, scary and ignorant. But I find you childish, evil, scary and beneath contempt. It's not enough for you be mired in willful ignorance, but you want to convince others that God is not real and that it is stupid to believe in HIm. That is why you call Him a fairy tale and anyone who defends the word childish names. That is what makes people like you so dangerous and why I will continue to engage you. There are people out there searching. They know the limits of science and they have questions of the heart that cannot be explained by science or any other made made philosophy. These same people may read this board and never post. And here you are, disparaging the one thing that will provide them with the solace and answers that they are searching for. Their souls are at stake. Whether you want to believe it or not, we all have one.
You can call me anything you want. But whenever, you try to disparage the word of God, you and I will lock heads. So bring it on.
All of life speaks of the existence of God. This is evidence. To say that there is not evidence of His existence is false. There is evidence. People like you simply won't accept it.
Renata: "?!?! The bible was written by men and not by god?
Dang, and I was hoping to get an autographed copy somewhere.... surely if he wrote it, he wouldn't mind signing it.
Anyways.....carry on."
Shyfox: Exhibit A. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 95
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:07 pm: |
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And it is not "my truth". Look to the word the bible for the truth. It inspired word of God as revealed to man. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4380
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:53 pm: |
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Well, Shyfox, what if a free-thinking person doesn't accept that the bible is the gospel truth but instead considers it a book tampered with and skewed by men with ulterior motives?? Moreoever, YOU cannot prove that God as "he" is portrayed in the bible exists. You are operating from a position of blind faith. You are also underestimating your own power, never attributing any personal progress and accomplishments to the force of god that dwells within you. And this thread is certainly an exercise in futility because, predictably, nobody has been converted to anyone else's point of few. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 96
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 03:53 pm: |
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Well, Shyfox, what if a free-thinking person doesn't accept that the bible is the gospel truth but instead considers it a book tampered with and skewed by men with ulterior motives?? Moreoever, YOU cannot prove that God as "he" is portrayed in the bible exists. You are operating from a position of blind faith. You are also underestimating your own power, never attributing any personal progress and accomplishments to the force of god that dwells within you. And this thread is certainly an exercise in futility because, predictably, nobody has been converted to anyone else's point of few."
Shyfox: First of all, the decision to believe or disbelieve is left to the individual. Secondly, the burden of proof is always upon the person who brings the charges or makes the accusation. The allegations have been made that the bible is inaccurate and that Adam and Eve, and God Himself are fairy tales. Now, it is for those who level such charges to present their evidence. I bellieve that God exists. All of creation shouts His existence. Moreover, my faith is not blind. What is blind, is looking at evidence and denying refusing to accept that it exists. This is blindness. Truly, if you and anyone else wants to believe that God does not exist, that is between that person and God. I underestimate nothing. I have nothing but what the Father gave me. There are somethings that I cannot control; but God is in control of everything. He can effect changes where I cannot. He has shown Himself to me in this way so many times.
Discussions like this are never an exercise in futility. Like I said earlier, there are people out there who are searching. They may want to turn to the Lord but are put off by posts like those of the un-believers here for fear of being riduculed and marganalized. I'm here to tell them that they should not fear such people. When the fate of your soul is at stake, you cannot give heed to anything that the mockers have to say.
No man comes to the Jesus unless the Father draws him. I am saying that if you out there are reading this and you feel yourself being drawn to the Lord, please don't give any heed to what the mockers have to say. Read the bible for yourself and make your decision based upon the word of God and not distortions of man.
These people cannot and will not accept the bible. They However do accept the distortions of the word of God as told to them people who hate them and deny their humanity. This is unreal.
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Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 39
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
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"An old African saying during the colonial period:
"When the White man first came to Africa, he had the Bible in his hand and we had the LAND"
He then asked us to close our eyes and pray with HIM. When we open our eyes.
"We had the Bible in our hand and HE had the LAND""
Oh my gawd, this is TOOO DAMN funny!! LMAO!!!! |
Abdi85
Newbie Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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Shyfox: First of all, the decision to believe or disbelieve is left to the individual. Secondly, the burden of proof is always upon the person who brings the charges or makes the accusation. The allegations have been made that the bible is inaccurate and that Adam and Eve, and God Himself are fairy tales. Now, it is for those who level such charges to present their evidence. I bellieve that God exists. All of creation shouts His existence. Moreover, my faith is not blind. What is blind, is looking at evidence and denying refusing to accept that it exists. This is blindness. Truly, if you and anyone else wants to believe that God does not exist, that is between that person and God. I underestimate nothing. I have nothing but what the Father gave me. There are somethings that I cannot control; but God is in control of everything. He can effect changes where I cannot. He has shown Himself to me in this way so many times.
Abdi85: It's so funny that the burden of proof is one anyone who denys or questions God's exsistance, while those who blindly believe are already proven right. Your whole post is indicative of excately what I am trying to say, YOU CAN'T PROVE SHIT! It's your faith. Therefore, you can't sell it to people whos souls are in danger as a fact of life, that is clearly dishonest. Cynque is right when she says that this argument is a exercise is futility because I'm coming from clear reason and your point of view is faith based we will never meet eye to eye on this because you exist in a world where all arguments or reasoning against your point of view is filtered through as evil and satanic. Any kind of intelligent discourse goes out the window because YOU refuse to leave your neat little box. I love it how you seem to care so much about peoples souls, its sweet in a creepy way, but your disregard and disresepect for other spiritual paths that majoirty of the world practices is sad. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 97
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 06:42 pm: |
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Abdi85: It's so funny that the burden of proof is one anyone who denys or questions God's exsistance, while those who blindly believe are already proven right. Your whole post is indicative of excately what I am trying to say, YOU CAN'T PROVE SHIT! It's your faith. Therefore, you can't sell it to people whos souls are in danger as a fact of life, that is clearly dishonest. Cynque is right when she says that this argument is a exercise is futility because I'm coming from clear reason and your point of view is faith based we will never meet eye to eye on this because you exist in a world where all arguments or reasoning against your point of view is filtered through as evil and satanic. Any kind of intelligent discourse goes out the window because YOU refuse to leave your neat little box. I love it how you seem to care so much about peoples souls, its sweet in a creepy way, but your disregard and disresepect for other spiritual paths that majoirty of the world practices is sad. "
Shyfox: The way it works is that those who make the accusations, have the burden of proof to prove that accusations. This is how it works in a court of law. When the state brings charges against an individual, the burden is on the state to prove that individual guilty. I have already lain out my proof. You just don't want to accept it. Now, since you charge God with being a fairy tale-the burden is on you to prove that He is indeed a fairy tale. YOu are clearly not up to the task. If insults and belittling were proof then I would concede the point. But you see-they are not. Where is your proof that God is a fairy tale. You seem so sure. I am simply asking you to use your superior reasoning skills to prove your assertion that God does not exist. You can't do it. You are the one who doesn't know anything. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 98
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 06:55 pm: |
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Abdi85, you claim to be coming from pure reason. You have yet to lay down one shred of evidence to support your claim that God is a fairy tale.
Reason does not look into the face of man and nature and claim that both happened by pure chance. One does not look at the intricate design of the human body and say that it just happened. All of creation screams of the existence of God, and yet some can't see it. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4383
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:01 pm: |
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Many believe that the changing seasons, the daily sun rise and the earth rotating on its axis, orbiting the sun, the force of gravity, thunder and lightning, or the birth of new life, are not proof of a personified being. They say these phenomena are proof of an omnipotent force that cannot be reduced to a white haired old man doling out punishment and reward in accordance with who obeys his laws and worships and adores him. They argue that that biblical perception originates in the imagination of men. They also contend that Jesus was a mystic and a Jew whose followers used the new testament to turn him into a savior and the son of god. Who is to say who is wrong or right? It's all a matter of whose truth one wants to embrace. |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 99
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:31 pm: |
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"Many believe that the changing seasons, the daily sun rise and the earth rotating on its axis, orbiting the sun, the force of gravity, thunder and lightning, or the birth of new life, are not proof of a personified being. They say these phenomena are proof of an omnipotent force that cannot be reduced to a white haired old man doling out punishment and reward in accordance with who obeys his laws and worships and adores him. They argue that that biblical perception originates in the imagination of men. They also contend that Jesus was a mystic and a Jew whose followers used the new testament to turn him into a savior and the son of god. Who is to say who is wrong or right? It's all a matter of whose truth one wants to embrace."
Shyfox: That is why it is so important to read and study the word for yourself. God is a spirit, not some gray haired old man. No one except his detractors are attempting to portray Him as such. He has revealed Himself to man in His word.
Jesus Christ is not a mystic. He is the son of the living God. The followers of Jesus had nothing earthly to gain by propogating their faith. It got them arrested, beaten, and ultimately killed. The whole world was against them. Yet, they persisted in spreading the gospel. That should tell you something. Who endures torture, imprisonment, and ultimately death to spread what they know to be a lie. God is worthy of our worhsip and our praise. He created us.
What a person believes is entirely up to them. But God is real. He gave His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of the world. Those who accept this sacrifice are washed clean of their sins and inherit eternal life. Salvation is a gift; it cannot be earned. We do nothing to deserve it. It would be interesting to know the motives of these people who argue that the bible originates in the imaginations of men. On what do they base this?
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Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 100
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:38 pm: |
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Fortified: ""An old African saying during the colonial period:
"When the White man first came to Africa, he had the Bible in his hand and we had the LAND"
He then asked us to close our eyes and pray with HIM. When we open our eyes.
"We had the Bible in our hand and HE had the LAND""
Oh my gawd, this is TOOO DAMN funny!! LMAO!!!! "
Shyfox: Always read the contract. Nothing in the bible required the Africans to acquiece to the Europeans in anything. Them ending up owning Africa has to be blamed upon the stupidity of the ruling Africans and nothing else. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 101
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 09:00 pm: |
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"They say these phenomena are proof of an omnipotent force that cannot be reduced to a white haired old man doling out punishment and reward in accordance with who obeys his laws and worships and adores him."
At least they acknowledge that the universe and all life did not just happen. Don't knock the reward and punishment system. Do you realize that there are people out there who have murdered, raped, and victimized others and have never been punished. God's punishment is only the justice that the victims of these unprosecuted crimes will ever receive. It also amazes me how we would never say that a person who breaks man's law should go unpunished. We would never say that a murderer does not deserve to be imprisoned for taking the life of an innocent person. Yet when someone trangresses the law of God, we think that God is unfair and unjust for punishing that person. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4384
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 10:30 pm: |
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Apparently your brain is wired in such a way that you cannot reliquish the idea of God being a person who judges people, or can you consider that good and bad are relative and random. And it amazes me that the entity you revere is not a god of love who forgives, rather than punishes. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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Read a religious book for the truth? The Jews, Muslims, and Hindus say the same. I wish someone would have had the foresight to get a copyright date on those books, to prove who's "truth" was written first. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 103
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 03:14 am: |
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Apparently your brain is wired in such a way that you cannot reliquish the idea of God being a person who judges people, or can you consider that good and bad are relative and random. And it amazes me that the entity you revere is not a god of love who forgives, rather than punishes."
Shyfox: Really. The bible tells us that God will judge us all. That does not come from me. That is in His word. I also don't see how you can make the claim that God is unforgiving and unloving considering the fact that He gave His only begotten son to take away the sins of the world; that through this sacrifice, none of us has to take the punishment for our sins; he bore the punishment for our sins Himself. That doesn't sound like an unforgiving God to me. But of course, you have to ask for His forgiveness and accept the gift of salvation given by Jesus.
Also, the truth is not relative. You either accept it or you don't. Some things are just black and white; there are no shades of gray with God. You either accept Him or you don't. The argument that you espouse is used so often by people who don't want to get to know Jesus. Jesus Himself did not like religion because it came between the people and God.
God is a Holy God. He is without sin and will not tolerate it. Don't kid yourself. Sin will be punished. It is pure arrogance to judge the creator of the universe and at the same time not want to be judged yourself. You think that the punishment of sin is unfair. So be it.
Renata: "Read a religious book for the truth? The Jews, Muslims, and Hindus say the same. I wish someone would have had the foresight to get a copyright date on those books, to prove who's "truth" was written first."
Shyfox: The bible is not a religious book. It is the inspired word of God. Religion is man made. God is without beginning and without end. Doesn't matter who wrote what first. God has always been and will always be. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4599
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:45 am: |
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THIS is an illustration of why I usually AVOID religious discussions. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
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The bible is the inspired word of god, but so is the bhagavad gita and the upanishads. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1029
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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And the qu'ran. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 163
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 03:53 am: |
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What about the ancient book of creation written by the ancient sumerian where the story of creation picked up by the old testament comes from and states that Adamu (adam) was created through genetic manipulation? The book of Enki?? The book of Manu written sanscript?? The Egyptian book of the Dead??
One of my favorite passage from the old testament goes as following:
"When the sons (plural) of gods (plural) found the daughters of men to be compatible, they took them as their wives and produced giant sons"
Could one of their son be the character in jack and the bean stock???? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:04 am: |
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What about the ancient book of creation written by the ancient sumerian where the story of creation picked up by the old testament comes from and states that Adamu (adam) was created through genetic manipulation? The book of Enki?? The book of Manu written sanscript?? The Egyptian book of the Dead??
One of my favorite passage from the old testament goes as following:
"When the sons (plural) of gods (plural) found the daughters of men to be compatible, they took them as their wives and produced giant sons"
Could one of their son be the character in jack and the bean stock????"
Shyfox: What about them? You tell us. A man can only speak what is in his heart. So be it unto all of you. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 105
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:05 am: |
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Renata: "The bible is the inspired word of god, but so is the bhagavad gita and the upanishads."
Shyfox: Really. You seem to have a very lax definition of what you define as god. These books may be the words of a god. But they are not the inspired word of the God of the bible. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 106
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:06 am: |
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"Could one of their son be the character in jack and the bean stock????"
Shyfox: Now why is someone your age reading Jack and the Beanstalk. Grow up already. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 107
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:11 am: |
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And oh, Anunaki3600 since you seem to be another to make the accusation that God and the bible are fairy tales, would you be good enough to present us with proof of these accusations. Abdi85 does not seem to be able to.
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Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 108
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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And by the way, usually the book of Jack and the Beanstalk has fairy tale written on the cover. We only have your word that the bible is a fairy tale. that's not good enough. where is your proof. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 109
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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The bible does not say that the offspring of the Sons of God and daughters of men were giants. It said that they were the might men of old, men of renown. Who they were, we don't know. they may even have gone on some legendary journeys. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4385
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:26 am: |
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What continues to escape you, shyfox, is that as long as you persist in making the bible your frame of reference, what you say falls on deaf ears to those who do not accept this book as the the infallible word of a god-figure. Can you actually prove that this book is nothing more than Hebrew mythology, infused with Roman paganism? No. All you have to sustain your belief is FAITH. Nothing wrong with that, except when you imply that not embracing your faith is a sin. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 110
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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"What continues to escape you, shyfox, is that as long as you persist in making the bible your frame of reference, what you say falls on deaf ears to those who do not accept this book as the the infallible word of a god-figure. Can you actually prove that this book is nothing more than Hebrew mythology, infused with Roman paganism? No. All you have to sustain your belief is FAITH. Nothing wrong with that, except when you imply that not embracing your faith is a sin."
Shyfox: the claim has been made that the bible and God are fairy tales. I am simply asking for proof of these assertions. Like I said before, those who bring the allegations or charges have the burden of proof. I eagerly await the presentation of that proof. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4386
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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OK. I will prove that "your god" is all in the mind of those of a certain persuasion by saying that when I ask "him" to immediately bring an end to the cruel genocide taking place in Darfur, that nothing will happen. Or will "he" eliminate the AIDS crisis in Africa or alleviate the dire state of emergency that exists in the inner cities of America. I don't even see any signs of any of these tragedies receiving attention from your god-figure. But I'm sure you will come up with some excuse about the devil or man being the victim of his own sins and blah blah blah all of which makes it permissable for "your god" to look the other way when it comes to all of the blatant injustices that exist in this world. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 111
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 01:46 pm: |
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"OK. I will prove that "your god" is all in the mind of those of a certain persuasion by saying that when I ask "him" to immediately bring an end to the cruel genocide taking place in Darfur, that nothing will happen. Or will "he" eliminate the AIDS crisis in Africa or alleviate the dire state of emergency that exists in the inner cities of America. I don't even see any signs of any of these tragedies receiving attention from your god-figure. But I'm sure you will come up with some excuse about the devil or man being the victim of his own sins and blah blah blah all of which makes it permissable for "your god" to look the other way when it comes to all of the blatant injustices that exist in this world. "
Shyfox: When asked about the rash of school shootings, Ann Graham Lotz said something extremely profound and I think applicable to the questions you posed as well:
She said: "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years
we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our
government and to get out of our lives.
And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
There are Christian organizations working in all parts of Africa to eliminate and aid those suffering from hunger and disease. There are Christian organziation trying to end the slave trade in Africa as well as the genocides of Dafur. So you see, God is working.
The AIDS epidemic, while tragic, is utterly manageable. Don't fornicate or abuse yourself with other people or in any fashion (that includes using needles to do drugs). These are all teachings of the bible. No one wants to follow them because they are "old fashioned".
The inner city crisis is also tragic. However, it is also the result of moral failure and collapse. No one wants to hear this, but it is true.
None of the points you posted proves that God does not exist. The all point to the moral failure of man. How wonderful that we have a redeemer in Jesus Christ to redeem us from that sin.
God is not subject to the whims of men. Do you not have enough love in your heart for your fellow man to offer assistance where it is needed?
By the way, why didn't you ask the god that lives within you to solve these problems?
I'm still waiting. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4387
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 02:20 pm: |
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The god force that dwells within me, helps me to navigate through life and inspires me to be all I can be in the process of practicing the "golden rule" which, incidentally, did not originate with the bible. This "spiritual force" does not take the form of an omnipotent celetial being who sits idly by and blames the woes of the world on everything and everybody but "himself", while leaving his followers to try and come up with vague rationales for his lack of action. LOL |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 112
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 02:59 pm: |
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The god force that dwells within me, helps me to navigate through life and inspires me to be all I can be in the process of practicing the "golden rule" which, incidentally, did not originate with the bible. This "spiritual force" does not take the form of an omnipotent celetial being who sits idly by and blames the woes of the world on everything and everybody but "himself", while leaving his followers to try and come up with vague rationales for his lack of action. LOL"
Shyfox: Not much of a god then is it? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 113
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 03:02 pm: |
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My only point is that people who say that they don't believe in God, have no problem calling on Him when their backs are up against the wall or when their lives are in danger. They spend the rest of their time denying that He exists. When they ignore His laws and suffer the consequences of their own failure, they are quick to blame Him. That's hardly fair. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4388
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
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What's fair got to do with it? How fair is it that some people's prayers are answered and others aren't. Bad things happen to good people all the time. It's all random. And of course the word "god" connotes different things to different people. The desperate souls who call upon "god" to rescue them from death or danger, or the foul- mouthed rappers who thank god for winning an award or the jocks who think god played a part in their team defeating their opponents are invoking a higher benevolent power, not necessarily a wrathful character out of the 0ld Testament who wreaks death and destruction upon the enemies of his chosen people. And none of this is to say that I don't respect your right to your beliefs, Shyfox. We are just 2 people who approach life from a different perspective. My gripe is mostly with religion. I certainly think that an almighty force of the universe exists, a omnipresent source that humans can tap into and benefit from, doing so by choosing whatever channel is most compatible with their psyche. Have a good day. |
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