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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2685
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 01:40 pm: | 
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"In case Oprah's comments need some decoding, what she's saying is she believes rap artists should be free to record songs that call women "bitches" and "hos," and she should be equally free not to invite them on her show. Oprah does not have a problem with rap music -- she has a problem with rap that degrades women."
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Rappers Aren't Feeling Oprah's Love
By Yvonne Bynoe, AlterNet. Posted June 21, 2006.
Oprah has refused to bring Ice Cube and Ludacris on her show. But it's not their music she hates -- it's their message of contempt for black women.
Ludacris was the first rapper to complain about Oprah. In the May 2006 issue of GQ, he said that Oprah only grudgingly invited him to her show because of his role in the Oscar-winning film "Crash." Ludacris called Oprah "unfair" and said that she edited his comments and lectured him about his music.
Then 50 Cent -- the infamous crack dealer turned rap artist -- joined the fray, telling the Associated Press that Oprah rarely invites rap artists on her show. Revealing his disdain for what he characterized as Oprah's older, female, and primarily white audience, he said, "[I] couldn't care less about Oprah or her show."
And now Ice Cube, the former frontman for controversial rap group N.W.A, has expressed his displeasure with Oprah. He told FHM magazine that he's been involved with three projects that were pitched to Oprah but has yet to receive an invite. "Maybe Oprah's got a problem with hip hop," Ice Cube said.
But contrary to what Ludacris, 50 Cent and Ice Cube have implied, Oprah has had rap artists on her show, but her tastes lean more toward John Legend and Alicia Keys than to Lil Wayne and Trina. To promote the film "Barbershop," Oprah invited rapper-actress Eve and comedian Cederic the Entertainer. Sean "P-Diddy" Combs was on before he ran the New York City marathon to raise money for local public schools. Incendiary rap artist-producer Kanye West, whose religious anthem "Jesus Walks" stirred up controversy among church folks, has also appeared on her show. Queen Latifah and LL Cool J have sat on Oprah's stage. More importantly, rap artist-producer Missy Elliott and "queen of hip hop" Mary J. Blige were both part of Oprah's Legends Weekend celebrating accomplished black women.
Earlier this month Oprah responded to her critics, explaining to MTV: "I respect other people's rights to do whatever they want to do in music and art. ... I don't want to be marginalized by music or any form of art. ... I feel rap is a form of expression, as is jazz. I'm not opposed to rap. I'm opposed to being marginalized as a woman."
In case Oprah's comments need some decoding, what she's saying is she believes rap artists should be free to record songs that call women "bitches" and "hos," and she should be equally free not to invite them on her show. Oprah does not have a problem with rap music -- she has a problem with rap that degrades women.
There's a particular arrogance that permeates Ludacris, 50 Cent and Ice Cube's statements, as if Oprah owes them a spot on her show. It's Oprah who has issues by refusing to celebrate black men who've made millions by demeaning black women?
If songs such as Ludacris' "Move Bitch" or NWA's "A Bitch Iz A Bitch" are not Oprah's cup of tea, then why should she be obligated to give them a platform? It doesn't seem to occur to these black men (or their supporters) that Oprah has the right not to use her show -- which is seen by 21 million viewers a week in 105 countries -- to promote performers whose work she feels is misogynistic or offensive. Oprah may not be kicking any black feminist credentials, but rather than blindly using her influence to "help the brothers," she is choosing not to support black entertainers whose work denies the humanity of black women.
The main focus of this brouhaha is not hip hop or rap, but the commercially successful subset of these genres that has transformed the public image of black women from flygirls to bitches, tricks, 'hos and chickenheads. This is the same sector of hip hop that has mainstreamed stripper culture, reduced the value of women to their body parts (remember Nelly's music video "Tip Drill?") and mocked the importance of love.
Rap shouldn't be banned or censored, but if living in an open society means that performers are free to express themselves, then that same freedom of expression must be extended to folks who aren't feeling it. Unfortunately, among black Americans there is little substantive debate about how popular culture affects our communities; any criticism of rap music, however slight or legitimate, is routinely dismissed as "hating."
In early 2004, Motivational Education Entertainment (MEE), a Philadelphia communications firm, released a nationwide study of 2,000 "urban" teens. The authors of the study concluded that, overall, the teens in their survey believed "black females are valued by no one."
The vast majority of the teens received their perceptions about life from the rap they regularly consumed. The study states that one of the most relevant changes in the hip hop generation (from their civil rights and black power movement predecessors) is an open disdain for black women. It makes perfect sense, then, that Oprah would not want to even indirectly advance messages that negatively impact young black women.
In his FHM interview, Ice Cube claims he deserves an invite to Oprah's show because of his "rags-to-riches story." Sure, Ice Cube has made millions -- but his success was founded on songs like NWA's "One Less Bitch," and the extremely raunchy "Giving Up the Nappy Dugout" (a solo release).
What Ice Cube fails to understand is that Oprah herself is the prototype for the "rags to riches" stories she highlights on her show; her life has been much more dramatic than those of many rap artists. She grew up dirt-poor in rural Mississippi to unwed parents. At age 9 -- and repeatedly thereafter -- she was sexually abused by a relative. She endured years of bad relationships, drug addictions, weight problems, and a career-changing demotion that moved her from her news anchor seat to co-hosting a morning talk show.
Oprah credits her fortune to education and faith; her shows reflect her strong belief in self-transformation. For over 20 years, Oprah has featured "success" stories on her show. Most of these have been women who became influential through perseverance and creativity, as well as people who have overcome adversity, tragedy or abuse to create richer lives for themselves, their families or communities. For Oprah, success is not predicated on amassing large sums of money; it is based on the contribution a person makes to improving his or her world.
Oprah has her detractors, mainly because she uses her show to promote the subjects she cares about. Implicit in all of the criticism from rap artists is the idea that because Oprah is black, she is expected to push every black entertainer's latest film or album, regardless of her opinion. The underlying sentiment is that if she is unwilling to set aside her values, then she can't be down for black people.
This position assumes that what is good for black entertainers is good for all black folks -- a highly arguable notion. There are many media outlets that expose U.S. rap artists to the global marketplace. But Oprah is virtually alone in her ability, through her selection of guests, to provide the world with a broader view of black Americans and their achievements. For black women, who are so commonly equated with the stereotypes of half-naked, gyrating women found in rap music videos, an opposing portrayal is welcome.
If the brothers feel they need more media visibility, they should use their millions to finance their own talk shows, instead of jocking Oprah Winfrey. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2686
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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". . .I don't want to be marginalized by music or any form of art. . . .I'm opposed to being marginalized as a woman."--Oprah Whinfrey.
Exactly what I said. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 03:51 pm: |
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"In case Oprah's comments need some decoding, "what she's saying is she believes rap artists should be free to record songs that call women "bitches" and "hos," and she should be equally free not to invite them on her show. Oprah does not have a problem with rap music -- she has a problem with rap that degrades women."
Well, I guess. I have no use for any of it. I find it all disgusting and pathetic. But I'm surprised there is not a wider and more aggressively vocal protest from women -especially black women, about these nauseating misogynistic videos and lyrics. I don't get it. I really don't.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 658
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 04:10 pm: |
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Why Oprah feels that music can marginalize her is beyond me. It doesn't marginalize me. It has no impact upon me. Just don't listen to it. The End!!! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2326
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 05:06 pm: |
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That is BS. If Oprah's audience loved 50 Cent and Ludacris she would have them on in a heartbeat.
Those nuerotic fat suburban middle class white women like Celine Dion and Tom Jones and would be horrified at having those rappers on the program--not to mention her sponsors.
It is all about audience and ratings.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4717
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 05:36 pm: |
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I don't really have a problem with Oprah anti-misogynistic stance against rappers. But I think she and her producers are being ethically duplicitous when they dedicated shows to "Black.White" and "Barbershop" YET refuse to invite the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER of those shows/movies ICE CUBE. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4605
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 06:11 pm: |
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Oprah is immune to criticism. People don't make her. She makes people. So I will now proceed to criticize her. If she's revolted by mysogynistic rappers, she should have them on her show and publicly take them to task like she did the lying white author of "A Million Little Pieces" This might even raise her stock with her black sistas. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4718
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 06:17 pm: |
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Cynique,
I agree. Oprah's stock would probably get even HIGHER if she did that. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 660
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
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I agree with what you said above ABM. Oprah is a judgmental hypocrite and featuring those shows, without inviting Ice Cube is schizoid. If she doesn't want him on - fine. But she should be consistent and not promote any of his projects. Good thing Ice Cube doesn't really need her to promote him anyway. For the most part, he is a self-made man. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2691
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
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OMG…this sistah made some of the exact same points that I made in part one:
Tonya:
NEW money CAN'T buy all. Not only has Oprah already made her dollars, she's an authentic black woman--what makes you think she's going to clown herself for any amount of money tea or gold?--May 30, 2006 - 11:33 am
I completely understand why Oprah hasn't recognized Ice Cube. Let's not forget he's partly responsible for the lyrics, "bitches ain't nothin' but ho's and tricks; lick-a my b%lls and suck my d%ck". Why would Oprah, a champion for women's rights, have someone like Ice Cube on her show? He hasn't done anything to counteract the damage he has done---May 29, 2006 - 11:19 am.
Mzuri:
That bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks cut was Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. I don't see Ice Cube in the credits. Is that guilt by association or what?
Tonya:
It was recorded by N.W.A; and Cube was indeed a part of that crew. He was not just an associate; he was one of the artists... guilty as sin.
Mzuri:
Maybe Cube performed it, but on THE CHRONIC (which I happen to own) Cube is not on it and he didn't write that particular cut.
Tonya:
Mzuri, {he was} still tied to N.W.A. The Chronic was a spin off maybe, but the kind of rhetoric in "Bitches ain't shit" was precisely N.W.A's motto. Plus The Chronic was cut in '92, right? Dr. Dre was clearly a part of "The world's most dangerous group" a year before The Chronic. Here's a cut from N.W.A in 1991:
N.W.A.
Niggaz4life (1991)
One Less Bitch…
Dobes:
tonya that song is from zaggin4efil ice cube and and nwa where beffin' at that point in time, so that has nothing to do with him...
The Sistah:
Sure, Ice Cube has made millions -- but his success was founded on songs like NWA's "One Less Bitch". . . . . Yvonne Bynoe, AlterNet. Posted June 21, 2006.
OMG… |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:45 pm: |
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At least Ludacris starred in a movie that some felt was beneficial to black culture. Ice Cube created woman hating gangsta rap. He's got to do a lot to overcome that shit--Tonya May 29, 2006 - 11:19 am. |
Jmho
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 161
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:59 pm: |
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Ironically, they haven't taken to task all the other TV talk show hosts, who haven't invited them on their shows. So, why single out the black woman (Oprah)? Sexism?
Besides, everyone can't be invited, to be on this one show, as there are only so many shows per year to be taped, so there will always be somebody whining about not being on the show. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 661
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:00 pm: |
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Tonya - You need to get a life if you don't have shit else to do but to cut and paste my posts from other threads and bring them into this discussion. You do not have my consent to do that.
And what's with the brackets? You are taking my posts out of context with the selective cutting and pasting. You do not have my permission to edit my posts. Those are copyrighted writings.
Further, I don't need you to do my communicating for me - you are not my agent or attorney. I can speak for myself.
If you have some points to make, why don't you make them on your own. Or are you no longer capable of doing that?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2693
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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Sue me bitch.  |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4719
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 09:11 pm: |
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The vast MAJORITY of hardcore and gangsta rap involves the glorification of Black men degrading, maiming and killing other Black MEN. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 09:14 pm: |
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Good point, Jmho. Tell them to go bother Montell Williams with that bullshit.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 244
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
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"The vast MAJORITY of hardcore and gangsta rap involves the glorification of Black men degrading, maiming and killing other Black MEN."
Unfortunately, this true. I was over a friends house last week and while sitting on the couch, I noticed a CD player that belonged to one of her daughters. I just thought I would check out what she was listening to. OMG!! I don't mean to sound dated or totally removed from current times, but the lyrics seemed to run in a constant loop; "….fuck dat nigga...", "bitch ass nigga..", "blast that punk ass nigga....", pimpin' my bitches...", "don't fuck wit a nigga that...", etc, etc, etc, etc.... I asked my friends daughter what she thought of the CD. Her response was; " Yeah! That CD be bangin'!" That was that. What am I missing...?????? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 245
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:21 am: |
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"Those nuerotic fat suburban middle class white women like Celine Dion and Tom Jones and would be horrified at having those rappers on the program--not to mention her sponsors. It is all about audience and ratings."
Can't argue with that. The truth be told!
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Femrenoir
Regular Poster
Username: Femrenoir
Post Number: 36
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 01:19 am: |
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And while we're talking about rap, can anybody explain why the 'music' is so good and the words have to be so 'naesti'. I've heard guys say women must like it, because they're dancing to it. Case in point - 'To the Wall' - Loved the music, danced to it, my niece had to tell me what they were talking about. I think that song would have become a classic if it had not been for the lyrics. These guys have talent, but it's like they're shooting themselves down and for what? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2329
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
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Abm:
So why do you want them to be reading super violent comic books? Hmmm? It's okay if a white man in tights kills people but not okay if a black kid in baggy pants talks about it--only okay if he reads about it in comic books. |
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