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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 438
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:15 pm: | 
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Marry White
Richard Pryor once said that the reason black women get upset when they see a black man with a white woman is because they can’t stand to see us happy.
I laughed at that joke for twenty years. I was a proud black man who married a beautiful sister. I attended HowardUniversity and associated everything black as good and everything white as bad.
For a few years, we were happy. We went through the normal trials and tribulations of any relationship and then something weird happened. We had a second child. I say it’s weird because we already had a three-year-old son and my once young and skinny wife gained a lot of weight during the pregnancy and, over the course of two years, lost it all. She had a great job, and we were having the time of our lives with a new house, new car and everything most couples generally want.
The second pregnancy created a green-eyed monster. I could not go anywhere without her suspecting I was having an affair. Her paranoia reached to the extent that she began checking my mail, my clothes, and even the mileage on our car that came as a courtesy of an Oprah show. I had to take my young son everywhere I went, which included concerts that she did not want to go to. We were quite a sight, seeing all the latest bands live in concert; my son still remembers watching Public Enemy as a five-year-old.
Our daughter arrived in September ‘86 and my wife gained almost sixty pounds, and she made no attempt to lose the weight, claiming I should love her regardless. When I started doing weekend sports to encourage her to stay healthy, she resented it, and it didn’t matter how many times I invited her, she steadfastly refused to do anything but eat, sleep and watch TV.
The company I worked for got bought out by a larger firm and only a handful of staff were kept on, I was one of them, and my staff and I were sent to a new corporate office and given a floor to ourselves. We were viewed as invaders and were very much on our own. One particular member of the new company, a young white who was the Director of Marketing, was very friendly and the two of us soon became partners in crime. We swam together at lunchtimes, did the gym together in the evenings, and together we created a number of events which integrated my staff with theirs on a more personal level.
She and I became good friends and shared many discussions about relationships. She was not married but living with a man and the relationship seemed very one-sided, she giving, him taking. Although I discussed my own relationship only in glowing terms, it soon became apparent to me that we were both miserable.
As fate would have it, one night we decided to go and see a movie. I had begged my wife to come and watch and she had again refused. We went after the gym and then returned to work to finish some reports. Although nothing even of a vaguely sexual nature occurred, we shared a goodbye kiss in the elevator and I suddenly realized that my white colleague was a very attractive young lady. This is important because I never viewed white women that way. I went home guilty and neglected to tell my wife that I had gone to the movies.
I admitted my indiscretion and was promptly thrown out of the house, my wife later admitting she expected me to run to my mother. I didn’t; I had no intention of advertising to my mother that my 10-year marriage was in trouble. So I sought out my new white friend, whom I knew had a large house, and could talk her into letting me spend the night in her extra room. Apparently, her lover only stayed on weekends and was away, and she not only invited me to spend the night, but professed her undying attraction and love for me. Angry or confused, we slept together, and the rest is history.
We’ve now been married for 10 years and we have a five-year-old son. My eldest from my first marriage lives with us, but my daughter still lives with her mother.
The difference between the women is night and day; no wild fights, no weeks without talking, no begging for sex, no feeding myself. My wife does it all. She cooks, she cleans, and doesn’t complain about it. She does just about anything I ask her. She takes care of me in ways I never dreamt of, and she introduced me to things like oral sex, thongs and bikinis and a figure that might look better in a playboy magazine.
She still has her figure, she is kind and courteous, a church woman, and she will go out of her way to make sure that you are welcome in our home. I never dreamt a relationship could be this way and I am somehow the envy of my white and black friends.
I am not trying to introduce stereotypes, but it seems clear to me that there are some noticeable differences between the races and it may have more to do with racism than anything genetic. I think my first wife was not only a woman, but a black women dealing with what a white society deemed as the way a women should look. She tried it and was successful at it, but her genes kicked in. All of her family members are big and suddenly she did not conform to what attractive was in the public’s eyes. I still thought she was beautiful, but I think she thought I would run as soon as the opportunity presented itself because I cared about fitness and looking your best. Now she’s the size of a house and still single.
My white wife looks after herself, takes pride in looking her best, and of course conforms completely to society’s perception of beauty. Yet, she does not wear make-up and does not go out of her way to dress up. Society has allowed her to be herself because she is white and acceptable. She is, however, a woman in a man’s world, and although a vice president, she now never seems to be considered for the president’s job - because of her sex, I’m sure, and maybe because everyone knows she is married to a black man.
White people do not have to consider race and this freedom allows them to look at the world with rose-colored spectacles. It never occurs to her that we encounter problems as a racially diverse couple, but that freedom allows her to accept me as a man first who happens to be black. Sisters too often see only a black man and not a man. They see us too often as someone they have to control and nurture and, too often, they’re right. They do not have the freedom to accept a man as a man because they already know on a day-to-day basis what he must encounter just to put food on the table. This pressure tears many relationships apart because black still means trouble and still means second class. A sister has to make more noise to be heard because they will walk over her if she doesn’t say anything. My wife does not have to make any noise because society has already decided she deserves anything she wants. A sister has to work for it, be better at it and maim and kill to get anything she wants and most hard-working brothers have to do almost the same thing.
If I can pass any advice on to my black daughter, it will be the ability to love your man as a man and stop thinking how you have to prove you’re a strong woman; don’t demand respect, earn it; be mutually beneficial to one another; and accept faults and weaknesses and attempt to improve on them together. When he wants cup of tea, make a cup of tea at 3 A.M. If he’d like a sandwich, make it. He will do the same for you.
There’s a scene in The Brothers where Bill Bellamy tells his white girlfriend he’s not feeling good and she jumps up and offers him a drink. The look on Bellamy’s face is priceless because we all know most sisters are not going to do that. He then decides to test her and asks for a sandwich and she says “Sure, Ok.” Sisters, watch that scene and learn.
I work at a black college and spend everyday watching our young brothers and sisters try to get along. It astounds me how many games are played by both sexes, how there seems to be a constant need to be better than, or take advantage of, someone else to prove some sort of superiority or, in many cases, equal status. We had fifteen young ladies get pregnant and with an average freshman class size of 2700, our graduation class has never exceeded 400. What happens to the other 2300? Whether these figures are comparable to white institutions is immaterial to me; there is a fundamental breakdown going on and it seems to me it starts with relationships.
My kindness to the students is perceived as weakness; too many girls want to know what I want when all I want is for them to graduate. Too many men want kids and don’t want the responsibility of raising them; they want to sleep with as many women as possible just to say they did and too many girls are willing to comply just to be accepted.
I’m not saying marry white or become white. I’m saying be a man first, be a women first, take a chance that someone will appreciate you for who you are, not because you are a particular skin color. Embrace being a child of God. Stop submitting to what society has said you are and be who you want to be. Who’s really the rebel, the kid into hip hop, baggy jeans below his butt, who says, “I’m going to do it my way,” or the black man who puts on a suit and tie cuts his hair and asks the white man for a job?
I submit the latter is the rebel; the other is what we are perceived to be and, unfortunately, too many of our kids play into the stereotype. Too many black women play into the stereotype.
Love yourself and respect yourself and someone will love you and respect you. Be aggressive, but learn to be submissive; cater to your man and he will cater to you. Surprise him by being there for him and guide him, don’t force him. Compliment him on his accomplishments, however big or small, and console him during failure and encourage him to try again. Make him the center of your world and you will be his. Make him want to come home and stay, fulfill his every fantasy and tell him yours. Say no because you can’t, not because you won’t. Never use sex as a weapon or a reward, make it a right to have fun for both of you. Tell them everyday you love them, even when you don’t feel like it, and lastly, sisters, be proud of who you are, not of what you think you should be.
Love everybody.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2472
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:58 pm: |
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How old is he? If he already graduated and had a family by 1986, that would make him older, right? When did he write this then? This is the ramble of a juvenile. Is he serious?? Oh well, he's not my type anyway--too lazy. I'm looking for somebody to make me a sandwich, shit. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
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It's so funny. One minute he sympathizes with the black woman not wanting to conform to society's standards. The next minute he is lauding the white woman for conforming. One minute he tells the black woman he understands her struggle with racism and how it has hardened her. The next minute he is thankful for the white woman doesn't have to deal with race. He is talking out of both sides of his mouth, and hence loses credibility with me.
I have NO problem with interracial relationships. I would be a hypocrite if I did. My problem is when black people date interracially not because of the qualities possessed by that non-black individual, but because of the qualities NOT possessed by the black ones. How special would his white lady feel knowing that he is with her because he is escaping the evil black woman. She would no longer be unique or special. He would be taken up with the concept of a white woman, rather than the individual... |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1037
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:52 pm: |
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I agree, Fortified.
Tonya, girl, you are so funny. Hell, I need a sandwich myself. LOL |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 355
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:28 am: |
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Fortified --
"My problem is when black people date interracially not because of the qualities possessed by that non-black individual, but because of the qualities NOT possessed by the black ones."
In the end, your problems are irrelevant. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 43
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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^^^^Nels, when I said "problem", I didn't mean that I would lose sleep over it. That "problem" shows that many Blacks have issues when it comes to relationships, that is all.
Obviously, it's none of my damn business what the other person is doing. But black men, if you prefer to date white women, that's perfectly fine with me, just keep my name out of your mouth. I have NOTHING to do with your preference... |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:06 pm: |
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Why are Black women viewed as being more masculine? And intimidating?
A male friend of mine has told me that several occassions he has had white girls at his college *throw* themselves at him & other black guys. One white girl said, "you should talk to me. i'm a lot easier to talk to, and not as intimidating and mean acting as the black girls."
Not only that, but he tells me that the *white* girls use money to get or keep their affection. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 285
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:06 pm: |
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There isn't any problem with this story at all. It's just that most of the posters on this board are bitter battle-axes, and the very idea of a black man falling out of love with a black woman rubs them the wrong way. I don't think any reader of this thing got past the point where he mentioned that his white girlfriend cooked and cleaned for him. They probaly threw a hissy-fit. IMO the article is right on the money and explains succinctly and articulately why black men and women have these problems. The "juvenile" qualities are all figments of some reader's imaginations. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 334
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:25 pm: |
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he should've hollered a nonamerican woman ... eddie murpy was right when he was talking about un-fu-fu!
and i didn't know serneasailor was that damn old ....geeez 86 i was in elementary school still. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1044
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:15 pm: |
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I'm with you, Fortified. If you want to marry whoever, do so.
Stop making it MY issue every time you open your damn mouth. Not enough black men even KNOW me enough to know that I'M the reason they marry somebody else.
Be a MAN, and just say, I married her because I LIKE her. This dumbass is just too chicken shit to stand up and say he'll marry whomever he wants, so he instead tries to throw his decisions/choices on someone else.... like he's saying, "don't ask me, it's not my fault. SOMEONE ELSE'S actions/attitudes made me do this."
BULLSHIT.
Hell, I almost married an Indian an a Japanese at a time in my life. Guess how many black men "pushed" me into that direction? By you men's rationale, if I had married either of them and then rant about how black MEN (not maybe the one or two I didn't get along with) weren't good enough for me, I'd be right.
BULLSHIT. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:40 pm: |
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^^^^I totally agree with Renata. I am glad that more and more black women are starting to care less. They need to get over it, because these black men are not "coming home"...
I am currently dating a white man, because of who he is, and not because black men drove me to do it. Nobody has that kind of power over me... |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 335
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:29 pm: |
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i know this is totally off of the subject ...but one of my coworkers asked me if i remember scat man cruthers and i was like yeah... he was an old black dude ... then he said well there's been sightings of him on google images and told me to just look at him in a scat search... oh man i should have known is was gonna be somthin' sick ... ok continue bitching now  |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2474
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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We're not intimidating or mean--I see my situation and black women's attitude in a different way. I grew up in a large tight-knit family, comprised mostly of older men and cousins my age, mostly young boys. I had my dolls and tea set, loved playing dress up and all--but since many of my childhood friends were boys, I did all the roughneck things as well (save b-ball, football, ect). So given my experiences, my opinion is/was that the difference between males and females aren't/weren't much; therefore, to me, there's not a reason why males should be given special treatment. But this was the one and only conflict that I had with my family, especially the women. They adhered strictly to dated religious values, most of which dictated that women should be subservient to men. And though my mother was quite lenient when it came to "whippings" or punishments, I was forever being reprimanded for "talking back" to males, not cleaning after them, and so on. This infuriated the hell out of me--still, my mother, loving though unrelenting and blinded by religious doctrines, forced me to cooperate despite my feelings and in spite of long, arduous debates. Naturally I developed a deep resentment, one that grew as I got older... and would crystallize whenever I was at a crossroads with boys and then later with men. What's more, some of the resentment is no doubt associated with jealousy (jealousy of the boys getting all of the attention), and a competitive disposition (to prove they were never worthy of such treatment). Certainly I won't go as far as saying that all black women are like this. However many of us came from a similar gender biased background--AND--since most women are neither as vocal as I am, nor have they experienced my kind of upbringing on the same scale, their rage may not be as apparent as mine--NEVERTHELESS--it could be present, perhaps to a more silent, much less degree. This being a huge possibility in fact could very well be the case, what some black men are witnessing might not be women behaving mean and/or dauntingly. It could be one of the gender biased issues that society in general has yet to respond to.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:30 pm: |
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This is the problem of anecdotes . . . they do not reflect much by the individual's limited experience. Of more important, Mr. White's comments have nothing to do with race, at all. |
Aj_le
First Time Poster
Username: Aj_le
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 01:34 am: |
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I like this article but things there is a definite sense of duality in its introspection. The insight into how he believes the pyschology of race and sexism formulate and drive a relationship is interesting and seems like the basis of a genuine voice. However, this is tempered by what comes across as a rather misguided emphasis on servitude and agreement, in a relationship. He acknowledges and claims to respect the difficulties his first wife faced with her image and her perception of worth in society, and yet revels in the playboy-esque figure, bedroom performance, and hassle-free compliance his current relationship offers. It's hard not to escape the notion that despite any protestations and affirmations of love and respect for his former wife, his reasons for leaving had little to do with race and but rather the desire for a better looking, easier to manage package. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 226
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Bullshit--That white woman couldn't have looked better. LOL
I really would like to see a picture of his white wife. My bets are that she probably looks like a heterosexual Ellen DeGeneres |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Interesting read.
I don't think this man is suggesting that his ex-wife is the way she is/was because she is black, and his new wife is the way she was/is because she is white. I think, ultimately, he, like most everyone else on the face of the planet, desired a rapport within marriage that is mutually beneficial and satisfiying. And, in his case, marrying a white woman proved his own prejudices to be wrong, and that, true compatibility is an issue of the heart, not skin color.
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Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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^^^^That would be true Moonsigns if he didn't go back and forth comparing his black ex-wife to his white wife and painting the white wife with a superior brush.
I wish black men would just be honest and say that they truly desire white women and stop bashing black women to justify their preferences... |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1233
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 03:07 pm: |
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Moonsigns:
YOu think you are wrong. He sends mix messages. As I stated, the problem with anecdotes is that they only tell us about the writer . . . nothing else.
He states:
I’m not saying marry white or become white. I’m saying be a man first, be a women first, take a chance that someone will appreciate you for who you are, not because you are a particular skin color. Embrace being a child of God. Stop submitting to what society has said you are and be who you want to be. Who’s really the rebel, the kid into hip hop, baggy jeans below his butt, who says, “I’m going to do it my way,” or the black man who puts on a suit and tie cuts his hair and asks the white man for a job?
This quote would seem to substantiate your point!
Yet, he also states:
If I can pass any advice on to my black daughter, it will be the ability to love your man as a man and stop thinking how you have to prove you’re a strong woman; don’t demand respect, earn it; be mutually beneficial to one another; and accept faults and weaknesses and attempt to improve on them together. When he wants cup of tea, make a cup of tea at 3 A.M. If he’d like a sandwich, make it. He will do the same for you.
There’s a scene in The Brothers where Bill Bellamy tells his white girlfriend he’s not feeling good and she jumps up and offers him a drink. The look on Bellamy’s face is priceless because we all know most sisters are not going to do that. He then decides to test her and asks for a sandwich and she says “Sure, Ok.” Sisters, watch that scene and learn.
I work at a black college and spend everyday watching our young brothers and sisters try to get along. It astounds me how many games are played by both sexes, how there seems to be a constant need to be better than, or take advantage of, someone else to prove some sort of superiority or, in many cases, equal status. We had fifteen young ladies get pregnant and with an average freshman class size of 2700, our graduation class has never exceeded 400. What happens to the other 2300? Whether these figures are comparable to white institutions is immaterial to me; there is a fundamental breakdown going on and it seems to me it starts with relationships.
Much of this, however, contradicts your point!
Not only is he specifically stereotyping black women, but he is also specifying what he would teach a black daughter.
In a nutshell Mr. White is saying:
(a) be a good woman, cater to your man, etc . . .
(b) a white woman is a good woman.
(c) to be a good woman is to behave like a white
woman.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4406
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 03:32 pm: |
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If anybody watched Oprah and her psychologist side-kick, Robin, the other day, none of this would be a problem because according to these 2 oracles, marriage robs a woman of her true identity, and unless a woman loves herself enough to relegate being an ideal wife to a secondary role, then she should not commit the crime of getting married because matrimony will stifle her spirit and make her unhappy. Boo-hoo. Nice time to tell us. Jeeze. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 46
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
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^^^^I believe that Oprah and Robin meant that you can lose yourself in marriage if you don't "show up as a grown up", be yourself, present your true self to your partner. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2484
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 05:36 pm: |
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Oprah-n-Robin *lol* are cracking open this issue of self-hate--(Re: toady's show and earlier shows)--so they gets no arguments from me... even if they keep it a color-blind thing. At least somebody's talking about it on a national level--and, who knows, maybe the black masses will make the link and catch on... So, Go Oprah!
Oops! -n-Robin! |
Crankyjane
First Time Poster
Username: Crankyjane
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 06:06 pm: |
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Hi everyone, this is my first posting on this message board.
To Seransailer or whoever wrote that:So.
What is the purpose of this thread? I mean seriously how many times have people said this and other people yelled at them and got offended. Nothing else comes of this type of conversation.
I cannot find the words to express the depth of my bordeom with this whole subject. You like white women, some black men prefer white women, whoopty freakin' doo!
There's a holocuast going on in the Sudan, the US is eroding into some type of police state, AIDS will soon be a pandemic and you like white women. Please get over yourself. There are so many more important things going on every moment of the day.
Thank you,
CrankyJane
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 492
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 07:34 pm: |
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Hello CrankyJane!!! Give em hell GirlFriend  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4407
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:20 pm: |
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I gotta problem with the self-hate rationale that has become a catch-all excuse for woman's behavior. Oprah just projects her personal history on everybody else, and Robin thinks all problems are psychological. Gimme a break. Every over-indulgent woman doesn't hate herself. Some eat a lot because food tastes good. Some women shop alot because they like clothes. Some woman work hard because they love their jobs. Some women have multiple sex partners because they like to screw, some women dye their hair blond because they want to have more fun. What's the big deal? I am riddled with flaws which I readily acknowledge. But do I hate myself? Hell, no. I'm my favorite person and when I get a chance to be alone, I LOVE being in the company of myself. This self-hate thing must be a baby-boomer/Generation X affliction. Snort. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2493
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 09:38 am: |
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...*LOL* |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1140
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 03:46 pm: |
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Yukio,
I will continue to disagree.
From my perspective, I don't think the message he is trying to convey is that black women are "bad" and white women are "good". Every negative thought he had about white women being "bad" was proved wrong, and the notion he had that all black women were/are "good" based on the merit that they too are black (like him), was proved wrong--not that he hates ALL black women or thinks ALL black women are like his ex. It's his story of how he learned firsthand that there are always--ALWAYS--exceptions to "the rules" we have about those who aren't (outwardly) like us--and to never "judge a book by it's cover".
It's interesting, though, how it seems some people on this site can't accept that there are some black women out there like this--as if he's the "no good", "self-hating", dirty bastard for sharing his story--and his ex is just some "queen" that doesn't have to be held accountable for her attitudes/beliefs and actions as it pertains to the marriage/relationship. I think that's bullshit.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 494
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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OMG y'all! Moonsigns said a cuss word!!! |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 229
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 09:21 pm: |
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Moonsigns--
INTERPRET, what he means specifically--and do NOT dodge this one like you did last time--
"There’s a scene in The Brothers where Bill Bellamy tells his white girlfriend he’s not feeling good and she jumps up and offers him a drink. The look on Bellamy’s face is priceless because we all know most sisters are not going to do that. He then decides to test her and asks for a sandwich and she says “Sure, Ok.” Sisters, watch that scene and learn."
Now, that you have READ it, please EXPLAIN why this statement can be negative or possibly positive towards Black women.
Moonsigns, I think that you are a very nice, older white lady. But I've come to conclude that your way of thinking is more suited for the young, white female rather than the young black woman. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1141
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:24 pm: |
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Brownbeauty,
I can understand how one could "interpret" that as being negative towards black women--because it's a stereotype to consider black women (as a whole) to be inflexible when it comes to accomodating their significant other. However, I think (in this case) he used that particular scene from that movie as an example of how it relates to his experience.
And "my way of thinking" isn't suited for any particular color. If a woman is a bitch, she just is. If a woman is cool, she just is. And in a case like this, I'm not "stuck" on color--because it's a non-issue when it comes to a woman either being a bitch or being cool. There are women who happen to be bitches that are black, and there are women who are bitches that happen to be white. There are women who are cool who happen to be black, and there are women who are cool who happen to be white. The cat wasn't happy and he rolled--nothing more, nothing less. Now, if you think it's a "color" issue or this cat thinks it's a "color" issue, so be it.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1142
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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And, I find it pretty silly that you'd jump to the conclusion that just because his new wife is white she couldn't possibly be more attractive than his (black) ex who apparently didn't take care of herself (in every way).
Are you prejudice?!
LMAO!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 05:20 am: |
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Again, He sends mixed messages. But he explains ultimately and conclusively that black women are black women, which equates to scarred women. White women, on the other hand, are unscarred so that they can be, and are, women. In others words, white woman equals woman, and black woman equals scarred woman. This is neither a story of life proving a racial shibboleth wrong nor my attempt to claim that people should not be accountable for their actions . . .
He states:
I am not trying to introduce stereotypes, but it seems clear to me that there are some noticeable differences between the races and it may have more to do with racism than anything genetic.
There is no equivocation here, Moonsigns:
I think my first wife was not only a woman, but a black women dealing with what a white society deemed as the way a women should look. She tried it and was successful at it, but her genes kicked in. All of her family members are big and suddenly she did not conform to what attractive was in the public’s eyes. I still thought she was beautiful, but I think she thought I would run as soon as the opportunity presented itself because I cared about fitness and looking your best. Now she’s the size of a house and still single.
Again, in regards to his new wife:
White people do not have to consider race and this freedom allows them to look at the world with rose-colored spectacles. It never occurs to her that we encounter problems as a racially diverse couple, but that freedom allows her to accept me as a man first who happens to be black. Sisters too often see only a black man and not a man. They see us too often as someone they have to control and nurture and, too often, they’re right. They do not have the freedom to accept a man as a man because they already know on a day-to-day basis what he must encounter just to put food on the table. This pressure tears many relationships apart because black still means trouble and still means second class. A sister has to make more noise to be heard because they will walk over her if she doesn’t say anything. My wife does not have to make any noise because society has already decided she deserves anything she wants. A sister has to work for it, be better at it and maim and kill to get anything she wants and most hard-working brothers have to do almost the same thing.
In other words, Moonsigns, the evil head of racism has produced scarred black women who have to control their men, work harder than white women, so that they can NOT be a complete [universal] woman . . . only a black woman. Where as since this is a white world white women have neither to prove themselves nor control their men, and therefore can be a complete [universal] woman.
These are his words not mine. These are his poor sociological attempts to justify his own relationship . . . not mine. Put another way, white woman can be women because this is a white world . . . this is his stereotyping and theorizing. This aint got nothing to do with shattering racial stereotypes but calcifying one!
The Angry Black WOmen Thesis:
It is an old one . . . black social scientists have been making it for years. From Du Bois and E. Franklin Frazier to white folk, such as Patrick Moynihan and the Tangle of Poverty Thesis, otherwise known as, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action (1965). It basically argues that controlling and unruly black women have emasculated black men, made them dependent and consequately made them leave the household. Thus separating father from child, son from father, and creating a tangle of poverty . . . Mr. King's essay is just a recent twist on this old tale . . . in a seemingly desegregated, less racist world, not only does the black man leave his family, but he leave it for a real women, a white woman.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
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Yukio:
"There are some noticeable differences between the races and it may have more to do with racism than anything genetic."
Moonsigns:
Some issues are racial. Some issues are not. Some issues are genetic. Some issues are not. In this case, the wife (clearly) had a rotten attitude--and her husband left her because of it. I don't think her attitude is caused by her color. I don't think her attitude is "genetic". Her attitude is a pattern of behavior she has choosen.
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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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Moonsigns,
I think deep down inside, you LIKE the idea of Black men who prefer White women like yourself over their Black wives. It makes you feel more attractive, desirable and lifts your self worth.
You don't want to interpret the essay for what it REALLY means--anybody with a grade school education can clearly see the bigotry and sexism in it. You're purposely being stubborn.
And yes, my earlier comment was prejudiced. I don't care. Because I do believe that his Caucasion wife was homely looking, with a fairly decent figure. A buttahead, perhaps. Because most Black men date mediocre-to-grotesque looking white women; with scraggly, stringy dishwater brown brunette hair. And whose wardrobe consist of stonewashed jeans, and ugly button up blouses.
I know for a fact that you are one of them. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 07:26 pm: |
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Brownbeauty:
"I think deep down inside, you LIKE the idea of Black men who prefer White women like yourself over their black wives. It makes you feel more attractive, desirable and lifts your self worth.
Moonsigns:
Actually, "deep down inside", I don't habor feelings that you describe. Furthermore, how you "think" I feel is not relevant to the dicussion we are having regarding this man's experiences. Don't use a typically convenient excuse in attmept to avoid examining your own prejudices. It's a cop-out.
Brownbeauty:
"You don't want to interpret the essay for what it REALLY means--anybody with a grade school education can cleary see the bigotry and sexism in it. You're purposely being stubborn."
Moonsigns:
As far as I "see" it, your thinking is senseless. In one paragraph you accuse me of being stubborn for my inability to "clearly see the bigotry and sexism" in this man's essay. Yet, in the next parapgraph, you freely admit to making a "prejudice" comment that you "don't care" about. You want respect that you can't seem to give. How absurd!
Brownbeauty:
"And yes, my earlier comment was prejudiced. I don't care. Because I do believe that his Caucasion wife was homely looking, with a fairly decent figure. A buttahead, perhaps. Because most Black men date mediocre-to-grotesque looking white women; with scraggly, stringy dishwater brown brunette hair. And whose wardrobe consist of stonewashed jeans, and ugly button up blouses.
I know for a fact that you are one of them."
Moonsigns:
Those gotdamn stonewash jeans! LMAO--I hate stonewash jeans!
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 07:27 pm: |
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oh, and btw, I'm not an "older white lady". More like a (very young) thirty-something.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:31 pm: |
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Moonsigns:
Some issues are racial. Some issues are not. Some issues are genetic. Some issues are not. In this case, the wife (clearly) had a rotten attitude--and her husband left her because of it. I don't think her attitude is caused by her color. I don't think her attitude is "genetic". Her attitude is a pattern of behavior she has choosen.
The overall argument is about race . . . his wife was used an example to make a general point. We are not discussing what you think (as you have said to Brownbeauty); we are discussing what he thinks and what he said (so don't cop out!). . . and as I have delineated, he is talking about black women as scarred women unable to be true women, like white women.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1146
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:42 pm: |
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Yukio:
"The overall argument is about race."
Moonsigns:
To you, Yukio. I happen to look at it extremely different. I think the overall point of his essay is that there are always exceptions to the "rules" we have about those who aren't (outwardly) like us.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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And there are always exceptions to the "rules" we have about those who ARE (outwardly) like us.
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Healer
First Time Poster
Username: Healer
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
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I want to add a comment here to this string. I may get bashed for it but whatever. Serenasailor
is one of those black men that are still enslaved in their minds, the shackles never came off despite all the sacrifice that our fore fathers like Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks went through on our behalf. It is sad that the world of people we are so caught up with race. It doesn't matter what the race of people the issues are the same, money, sex appeal, power, class, etc. within all the races the same issues arise with who is better than whom. It is sad that only blacks seem to work harder with it. maybe it is because we have allowed ourselves to concentrate on it too much. Maybe we're forced to constantly deal with it, because every race sees us as the last race of good for nothing people on the totem pole. Even within the white society there is the money class, the white trash the middle class. then in asian cultures there are multi castes, who feel that not all are created equal either. But no matter how low other races are they all feel they are better than blacks.
my issue with Serenasailor is that, who cares whether he married a white woman or not. He came on the thread to confess his guilt. But really he is a cheater. when the chips were down he bailed on his 1st marriage to the next available woman that was around. I'm sure he could have bunked at a hotel or a relative, instead he chose to go to a woman's house he knew he wanted to get with anyways and who he knew wanted him, because possibly she sent him every signal in the book that he could hit it anytime. As there are 2 sides to a story who the heck knows what his black's wife 6th sense was telling her about him in the first place before he threw in the towel on their relationship.
I think he failed to see his black queen as a woman and as his bride for life. I think many men want good relationships, doesn't matter with who. But why drudge up the struggle of your people, of whom you are a part. I truly believe that he is not saying alot of truth. somethings are mentioned to support his guilt and then other things are said to defend it. woman go through change when they have babies. he forgot the part about til death do us part. instead of seeking help with his wife of 10 yrs. he took the easy way out and found a woman who doesn't have to deal with the struggles to stay alive that black women have to. His new wife lived in a bigger house, maybe mummy and daddy gave her the down payment on that. Not many blacks have the luxury of giving their children gifts of that kind. You're lucky if there is a will of which you are included. and at that point by the time, bills are paid, you probably gotta pay something to help out. Alot of our current struggles as black people are because of our past as a people. People like negativety and no one will let blacks forget they were slaves. White people were slaves too, but nobody keeps mentioning that. Chinese were slaves too and in alot of cases still are, but no one harps about it. i have alot more to say. but i will just say this for now.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2497
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 05:38 pm: |
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Fortified:
I wish black men would just be honest and say that they truly desire white women and stop bashing black women to justify their preferences...
Tonya:
So true, Fortified, and black women have got to recognize it for what it is and move on.
On the one hand I can understand. Black women's beauty has been criticized for so long by way too many people; so to have black men do what amounts to the same thing, it could at times be more than any female can take.
But on the other hand... when you look at some of the white women these black men choose--I've said it several times and I'll say it again--in a world where beauty is so important to men, it is IRRARIONAL, there is no way to explain why any slightly decent man would make these choices; it defies LOGIC. Without digging into the psychology of it all, it is plain to see that something is not right; what ever you want to call it: Self-hate, self-love, self annihilation--what other man on the planet does it? IT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT NOT NORMAL.
Given this FACT, I can't see how any black woman would let what these men are doing get in the way of how they feel about their beauty; (or anything else for that matter). I wouldn't let it affect the way I view myself. Frankly, that would be the furthest thing from what's intelligent.
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Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 49
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 09:20 pm: |
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You see, Tonya, that is why I look at it on a case-by-case basis. Some black men are caught with the concept of having a white woman, so any white woman will do. Others truly desire that particular (white) woman for the individual she is. Most of the time, there is no true way to tell. You cannot go by that woman's looks, weight and/or attitude alone. And because it is hard to tell if the black man is being genuine, it is therefore MUCH easier not to bother trying to figure it out anyway...
I think black women NEED to move on, if not for anything else, do it for pride. Why fuss over men that don't want you regardless of how great you are? Why waste your time and energy over a losing "battle"?
If the black man no longer holds the rich skin tones, curves, kinks and soul of the black woman in as high regard as she holds his esthetic, what are you (read: general you) going to do about it? Hypnotize him? Ban him from TV/print media? Bash him? Dehumanize him? Nothing is going to change his mind. Get over it. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2498
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 01:51 pm: |
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Fortified:
Most of the time, there is no true way to tell. You cannot go by that woman's looks, weight and/or attitude alone.
Tonya:
I would agree with you if black men weren't opting to couple with unattractive white women IN DROVES. It is not about bashing anyone nor is it about making anyone stay; not in the least. It's about seeing the situation clearly so that black women can move on. The one thing that has been a constant throughout history is that men of all races prefer attractive women over unattractive women; that has always been a part of universal human behavior. But dark men - the ones who are among the darkest within their race/ethnic background: Hispanic, Black, Arab ECT. - seem to be content with making unusual choices; and ONLY when they decide to pair with certain women. And it's not like black/dark men are choosing these women every now and then; those that go interracial make these choices most of the time. Does it mean that they are crazy; that's not my point; honestly, there's no need to even go there. My point is, before we start making black women's looks the culprit, let's look at what is plan and obvious. The choices that black/dark men tend to make goes against universal human behavior and logic. And the many attacks made on black women's looks and attitude is just their attempts at rationalization i.e. a selfish defense mechanism.
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Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:45 am: |
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There's nothing we can do about Black men with White women.
but it's not going to stop me from being so damn perplexed as to why they grab the most homely, flat assed, stringy haired White broad they can find.
Yet, they place all these special standards as to what a Black woman should look like in terms of fashion, style, and beauty. Black men proclaim how much they love a woman with a nice, big round behind--but end up with some Tori Spelling looking chick who face looks like a melted wax figure, and an embarassingly droopy flat ass. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 167
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
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I agree with BrownBeauty 100%. Why go for the scraps when Black men who want White women should go for the best, i.e. Some one with a PhD for a starter, slim-fit with buns of steel. Some-one with "fashion, style and beauty". Black men who love white suga should go for the best refined and if they become diabetic, so be it. Leave all the dark/brown sugga for us who love it in its natural form. Ummmmm (licking my fingers). Hee heee heee. |
Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 107
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 01:35 pm: |
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despite all the rhetoric and FALSE information, the TRUTH is the vast majority of black people marry other black people. most black men marry black women. millions upon millions of black people are in relationships with other black people. lets not get "hung up" the handful of black folks that marry other nationalities. the evidence clearly points to the FACT that black men prefer black women, and vice versa. remember we are talking about millions of people, not just a handful we see on television or the few we see in the street. its simply incorrect to imply black men seek or prefer white women, because the numbers just don't match. again, MOST black people marry other black people. and this will always be so. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 234
Registered: 03-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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Lil_ze,
for NOW.
but the future doesn't look too bright for black on black LOVE.
Everyday, I ALWAYS see a Black man, with some Martha Stewart-looking broad who looks as if she's been rode hard, and put away wet. If you're going to get ugly, at least get it in your own race.
But hey, if these Black men don't mind waking up to a pale-skinned corspe every morning more power to them.
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Lil_ze
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 108
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 05:57 pm: |
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brownbeauty, i see where you are coming from, but i'd like to stress that it ALWAYS stands out in our mind when we see our people with other nationalaties. but, lets consider how many black people we see everyday with other black people. it doesn't stand out so much in our minds, but im sure we see many more blacks with other blacks. now and forever |
Grind
Newbie Poster
Username: Grind
Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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Brownbeauty123,
Where do you live? I honestly don't see black men with white women as often you seem to. And here I thought I lived in an area that had more of these couples than most places! |
Sigmaman3
Newbie Poster
Username: Sigmaman3
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:05 am: |
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[Everyday, I ALWAYS see a Black man, with some Martha Stewart-looking broad who looks as if she's been rode hard, and put away wet.]
Once again telling lies to make yourself feel good about being a tired ass whiny victim, huh? Where are your statistics? Wait a minute though, I though most of us preferred fat white women so aren't you contradicting the angry black female playbook?
[If you're going to get ugly, at least get it in your own race.]
Many BM do. Just because you're one of those ugly BW who haven't gotten a man, don't take it out on everybody else. Get some new batteries or something.
[But hey, if these Black men don't mind waking up to a pale-skinned corspe every morning more power to them.]
And what are you going to do about it anyway? you and the other whiny, bitter, wiating to exhale, gotta bitch about something insufferable black female professional victims have yet to change anything with your whining and made up statistics but you're only making yoruselves look bad.
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Clymenestra
Newbie Poster
Username: Clymenestra
Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 02:03 am: |
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Well, girls, don't you get the message? Your problem is that you bitches with bad attitudes aren't submissive enough. Why aren't you waiting hand and foot on this man after putting in a hard day's work at the office or staying up all night tending to his sick child? The nerve of you!!!
And please don't put this man's nonsense on us white women. We hear the same kind of crap from white men who go to Latin America or Asia for their brides. They're more easy to please than us spoilt American white women. They're more "feminine," too!
I just roll my eyes and remember what my Korean friend, Kim said of her white idiot, "He thought he was getting a geisha girl. Of course, once I got my green card, I told him if I wanted to be a traditional Korean wife, I'd have married a Korean man." |
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