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Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 114
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 08:12 pm: | 
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"What's fair got to do with it? How fair is it that some people's prayers are answered and others aren't. Bad things happen to good people all the time. It's all random. And of course the word "god" connotes different things to different people. The desperate souls who call upon "god" to rescue them from death or danger, or the foul- mouthed rappers who thank god for winning an award or the jocks who think god played a part in their team defeating their opponents are invoking a higher benevolent power, not necessarily a wrathful character out of the 0ld Testament who wreaks death and destruction upon the enemies of his chosen people. And none of this is to say that I don't respect your right to your beliefs, Shyfox. We are just 2 people who approach life from a different perspective. My gripe is mostly with religion. I certainly think that an almighty force of the universe exists, a omnipresent source that humans can tap into and benefit from, doing so by choosing whatever channel is most compatible with their psyche. Have a good day."
Shyfox: But you see, there is only one way to God. There is only one God. Don't kid yourself. While it is true, God calls each of us out of different circumstances, the call comes form one source and that source is God. While you describe Him as being filled with wrath, the bible paints a different picture of Him. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotton son, so that no one had to die in their sins and be separated from Him forever. That does not sound like a wrath filled God to me. Salvation is a gift; you don't have to earn it which is a good thing because you can't.
If He were so vengeful, would He have made a way for us to escape that wrath. When we sin, we break God's law. God is Holy and without sin. His judgments are rightous and fair because He is all knowing. The law must be satisfied. Jesus satisfied the law by taking our punishment onto Himself. You and I don't have to suffer eternal separation and hell because of Jesus' sacrifice. This is good news to any of us who have ever told a lie, or stolen something (no matter how small), to the fornicators, to the adulterer (even looking at someone else with lust counts). You can go down the list of commandments and find the law that you broke. All we have to do is to accept Jesus' sacrifice and make Him our saviour and Lord. OUr sins are forgiven by God and He will remember them against us no more.
I have fullfilled the commission - at least on this board.
Peace.
Shyfox |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 08:39 pm: |
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If fullfilling your commission means talking in circles and basically saying I'm right your wrong without ever accepting the posibility that your paradigm might be wrong then yes you have fullfilled your commission. Everything that is said to you, you boil it down to how christianity intreperts the universe, we would be having the same argument with Hindus,Muslims, Wiccas etc etc etc. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong it just ends in futility. For example if I were tell you that Noah's flood is practically impossible because there is no geologic record of the ENTIRE WORLD being covered entirely by water, you would refute it with "science is mans creation and its flawed and God isn't". Or if I were tell you that if the world was flooded as you say, there would be soo much water that the people on the Ark would drown because of water vapour in the air. But of course you would come up with some magical notion that God protected them, or the earth isn't that big so that much water is not needed, or there is no such thing as water vapour, or the water cycle and earth doesn't have a hydrosphere. Lets be real you have only proven today that your faith or sense of denial is really strong, and that is cool, but please don't go around acting like you won some logical contest in reason because you've only presented ideas not facts that can't be reasoned with. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:34 pm: |
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My only point is that people who say that they don't believe in God, have no problem calling on Him when their backs are up against the wall or when their lives are in danger. They spend the rest of their time denying that He exists. When they ignore His laws and suffer the consequences of their own failure, they are quick to blame Him. That's hardly fair.
That's a CHRISTIAN trait. The slaves became Christian, and then sat around waiting for god to rescue them. And when they were still slaves, they said god must be punishing them for something and did nothing. First, the devil sent their oppressors, and god will avenge them, so they need to do nothing. And when they haven't been saved/rescued, it's because god works in his own good time (too late to save/rescue a good bulk of those who need him, but whatever). (It's interesting that god didn't punish the atheistic Japanese with enslavement for not believing in him.)
Everyone else seem to blame THEMSELVES if they don't fight for themselves, they don't blame god for it.
And I still stand by my words. All of those books are the inspired word of god....to those who believe it to be so. Just as you feel about your bible, someone else feels about the upanishads, and someone else feels about the qu'ran. Of course, you know that only YOU are correct. This is the problem that I have with fundamentalists. I don't care what anyone believes. But it says a lot about a school of thought, when all others are inherently wrong for simply believing something different. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:36 pm: |
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So much for diversity. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
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The problem with the world isn't that there are so many differences among men, but that men choose to wish that there weren't any. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 353
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:23 am: |
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Abdi85, where you under the impression that you were involved in some sort of dialogue? If I tell you that the earth is flat and rides on the back of an enormous turtle then the burden of proof is on me, since I'm the one that made this ridiculous assertion.If you tell me that some bronze age savages gained perfect insight into the origin of the universe and everything in it and I question this, then the burden of proof is on me, since I'm the one that didn't accept this ridiculous assertion."It's so because this book says that it's so" " What if the book is wrong?" "The book can't be wrong" "How do you know?" "It says so right here in the book" " But what if the book is wrong?" "The book can't be wrong." "But how do you know that?" "It says so right here in the book." She has absolutely no problem with blindly accepting it when science tells her that a quartz crystal always vibrates at exactly the same frequency when an electrical current is passed through it, and can be used to keep track of time passing, and is willing to bet her livelyhood on that proposition, but when the same science tells her that carbon 14 always decays into carbon 12 ar a very specific, fixed rate and the ratio of the two can be used to keep track of time passing, that science is man's creation and is flawed.
These are not the sort of things that one finds in honest, open dialogue.This what one encounters when trying to explain to a child the difference between faith and hard-headedness,two terms that are not intended to be used interchangeably because they do not mean the same thing, which us right back on topic for this thread.Black people are christian because, at some point, the white man told them to be christian.And so they are christian.They can't explain why because reason had nothing to do with it.You aproach with evidence and logic, they respond with anger or dismissiveness.Their faith will not be troubled by pesky facts that show the faith to be the thing that is flawed.You will note that she asked me to produce evisence of the world's age and I did, and she made no further mention of fossil records or archeological findings.Pretending that the evidence doesn't exist and dismissing any suggestion of it's existence will always stand solid, proof against any argument.Don't address it, disdain it and scoff at those foolish enough to consider it.Who are you going to believe? God or the facts? |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:29 am: |
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Well said Renata, but according to Shyfox your just plain wrong because you don't accept the fundamental fact that the Bible is God's word therefore, every other fool is going to hell. It's kinda futile discussing anything with a person who is intellectually stuck in a cage, and only approcahes issues with a predetermined set of fundamental lawsm, and banishing anyting that controvines those laws as 'wrong', 'flawed' etc. I wonder what Shyfox would say to a fundamentalist Muslim who believes whoheartdly that he/she is going to hell because they don't accept the Quran as the revealed word of god, or a Hindu fundamentalist because you refuse pre-ordained Hindu spiritual precepts. They would just talk in circles around each other till the cows came home, never realizing that inorder to have some kind of dialouge you have to step outside of your box. And for the record I did not deny the existance of God. Just because I deny the bible to be the word of God doesn't mean I deny God, but of course your religious arrogance and intolerance blinds you to that fact. I do acknowledge that there is something out there a force, a being greater than my human capablities to understand what it is, or even come close. I am at the same time however, open to the possibility that there isn't anything out there becuase in the end WE don't know. Were all just carbon based units on the edge of an unremarkable galaxy its pretty arrogant of me to ever assume that I could somehow sin against, or offend something as great as God. But ofcourse Shyfox will bring some bible verse, and some christian theological interpretation of the universe to tell me I'm wrong, and going to hell and, stating "yes people do sin against God". Never realizing that I don't accept her christian interpretation of the universe or the bibe as valid. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:37 am: |
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Your Right Rustang, I've been dealing with fundamentalist my whole life I guess apart of me just can't seem to understand why a person refuses even to consider another possiblity of something else. I have dealt with people like Shyfox before, I guess I like getting into arguments like these and your right it snot a dialouge its argueing. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1039
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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RUSTANG: "It's so because this book says that it's so" " What if the book is wrong?" "The book can't be wrong" "How do you know?" "It says so right here in the book" " But what if the book is wrong?" "The book can't be wrong." "But how do you know that?" "It says so right here in the book."
You are a hoot! |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 115
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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Abdi85: "If fullfilling your commission means talking in circles and basically saying I'm right your wrong without ever accepting the posibility that your paradigm might be wrong then yes you have fullfilled your commission. Everything that is said to you, you boil it down to how christianity intreperts the universe, we would be having the same argument with Hindus,Muslims, Wiccas etc etc etc. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong it just ends in futility. For example if I were tell you that Noah's flood is practically impossible because there is no geologic record of the ENTIRE WORLD being covered entirely by water, you would refute it with "science is mans creation and its flawed and God isn't". Or if I were tell you that if the world was flooded as you say, there would be soo much water that the people on the Ark would drown because of water vapour in the air. But of course you would come up with some magical notion that God protected them, or the earth isn't that big so that much water is not needed, or there is no such thing as water vapour, or the water cycle and earth doesn't have a hydrosphere. Lets be real you have only proven today that your faith or sense of denial is really strong, and that is cool, but please don't go around acting like you won some logical contest in reason because you've only presented ideas not facts that can't be reasoned with."
Shyfox: I can do a "google" search just as easily as you can. There is evidence for Noah's flood. Like for instance, why are the oceanic fossil remains found on mountain peaks many miles away from any ocean; why do sedimentary deposits which suggests a large movement of water cover such large parts of the earth; the fossils of once living things that have been found in areas not suitable as their habitat; the oldest living tree found in California is about 5,000 years old - the age coinciding with the recovery of the earth after the flood. I could go on. But you see, you won't accept this as evidence because you simply don't want to. there is evidence to support the biblical accounts. I guess it all comes down to faith. The faith of one man to build a humongous boat when because his God told him to and because he listened he and his family survived. The others whom he told to prepare scoffed instead-and well, they no longer exist. So much for faith.
To Renata: Diversity. I'm sure that there will be plenty of that in hell.
To Rustang: You still believe what those whitemen told you that the bible said and justified. Has it ever occurred to you that these men were lying?
To all of you, I did not find this exchange to be a contest. My Lord gave me the Commission to spread the gospel and to present the truth. I have done that. I can't make any of you believe me.
Don't be so easy to dismiss the bible and don't be afraid to believe it. Don't be intimidated by people like Abdi85, Rustang, and Renata. If you really have an open mind, you will search the truth out for yourself. It is not enough for them that they don't believe in God; they have to try to make sport of those who do believe in order to intimidate others who want to believe from reaching out to God.
How about this. The bible is also prophetic. Some of these prophecies have already come to pass and others are getting ready to. For example, the messianic prophecies predicted the birth, life, and death of Jesus Christ, hundreds of years before he was born. It predicted the reestablishment of the state of Israel and the return of the jews. All of this came to pass in the 20th century after world war 2.
I could go on. You can believe it or not. It's up to you. But the consequences are dire if you don't. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4396
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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There are millions and millions and millions of people who are not Christians, shyfox, including the Jews and Muslims. And it's not like Christianity has exclusive rights to a god figure and it is, after all, just one of the 7 major religions in this world. And followers of each of these doctrines are just as sure their way is the right way as you are. Also, the prophecies of the bible are just warmed-over predictions from prophets of other religions. Bottom line, there is nothing infallible about faith. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 116
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:05 pm: |
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Rustang: "but when the same science tells her that carbon 14 always decays into carbon 12 ar a very specific, fixed rate and the ratio of the two can be used to keep track of time passing, that science is man's creation and is flawed."
Shyfox: I just read the most interesting article about carbon 14 and how it works. Scientist claim that carbon 14 has a half life of 5,700 years and is only reliable in dating stuff that is 60,000 years old or less. My question is how do they know that carbon 14 only has a half life of 5,700 years; surely this is not something they learned from personal observation. I don't believe that there are any 6,000 year old scientists.
Rustang: "These are not the sort of things that one finds in honest, open dialogue.This what one encounters when trying to explain to a child the difference between faith and hard-headedness,two terms that are not intended to be used interchangeably because they do not mean the same thing, which us right back on topic for this thread."
Shyfox: Open and honest dialogue does not include the ridicule of a person and his or her beliefs. That is all that you have done since this subject was broached. Black people are Christians because this is what white people taught them. Does this sound like honest dialogue to you. Anything anyone says to the contrary, they are just being hardheaded, stupid, and childish. This is not dialogue-at least not in the civilized world that most of us inhabit.
Rustang: "You aproach with evidence and logic, they respond with anger or dismissiveness.Their faith will not be troubled by pesky facts that show the faith to be the thing that is flawed.You will note that she asked me to produce evisence of the world's age and I did, and she made no further mention of fossil records or archeological findings.Pretending that the evidence doesn't exist and dismissing any suggestion of it's existence will always stand solid, proof against any argument.Don't address it, disdain it and scoff at those foolish enough to consider it.Who are you going to believe? God or the facts?"
Shyfox: I believe God always. You have not presented any evidence or logic of His non-existence though I have asked for it repeatedly. There has been nothing for me to dismiss. Your evidence regarding the age of the earth can in no way be verified through the very science that arrived at it. Carbon 14 - 5,700 hundred year half life - how can this be proven. Certainly not by personal observation - so we take the word of a man that it is so. You choose to believe it. So much for your pesky facts.
Abdi85: "If fullfilling your commission means talking in circles and basically saying I'm right your wrong without ever accepting the posibility that your paradigm might be wrong then yes you have fullfilled your commission. Everything that is said to you, you boil it down to how christianity intreperts the universe, we would be having the same argument with Hindus,Muslims, Wiccas etc etc etc."
Shyfox: But that is the point. You have not been slandering Wicca, Hiduism, and the Quran like you have the Christian Faith and God. Why the vehement attack upon Christianity. Why does it draw your wrath like this. Points to ponder. Nothing seems to get the goat of some people like the name of Jesus Christ. I seem to remember reading in another thread ( In the lets talk religion and atheism thread) about how a deity appeared in the chariot with someone else and how you found this to be such a beautiful experience. Now I have to ask-why did you not condemn this as a fairytale? Why did you not say that people who believe this only believe it because someone else told them to? How can this expereince be verified in any manner? No, all of your hatred and attacks are reserved for Christianity - so you can hardly call yourself an dispassionate, neutral observer who is coming from a position of pure reason and logic.
Abdi85: " wonder what Shyfox would say to a fundamentalist Muslim who believes whoheartdly that he/she is going to hell because they don't accept the Quran as the revealed word of god, or a Hindu fundamentalist because you refuse pre-ordained Hindu spiritual precepts. They would just talk in circles around each other till the cows came home, never realizing that inorder to have some kind of dialouge you have to step outside of your box."
Shyfox: I would tell them the same things that I have told you. I don't have to step outside of anything. I believe that the bible is the inspired word of the living God; that Jesus is His son and he died on the cross to redeem the sins of the world and that he rose from the grave on the 3rd day victorious over death, hell, and the grave.
Abdi85: " And for the record I did not deny the existance of God. Just because I deny the bible to be the word of God doesn't mean I deny God, but of course your religious arrogance and intolerance blinds you to that fact. I do acknowledge that there is something out there a force, a being greater than my human capablities to understand what it is, or even come close. I am at the same time however, open to the possibility that there isn't anything out there becuase in the end WE don't know."
Shyfox: I don't know what god you believe in or how you arrived at your knowledge about him. I think that it is arrogance for the creature to deny its Creator. You can't take any credit for the very air that you breath or the lungs that breath it.
Abid85: "Were all just carbon based units on the edge of an unremarkable galaxy its pretty arrogant of me to ever assume that I could somehow sin against, or offend something as great as God. But ofcourse Shyfox will bring some bible verse, and some christian theological interpretation of the universe to tell me I'm wrong, and going to hell and, stating "yes people do sin against God". Never realizing that I don't accept her christian interpretation of the universe or the bibe as valid."
Shyfox: Just because you don't believe in the bible, doesn't mean that it is not true. What I find as arrogant is your condescending attitude and rants against anyone who believes in the bible and God. God has revealed Himself to us in the bible. The bible says that God will punish sin. He gave us His law and trangressions of that law is sin. I think that what it boils down to is that you just want to do whatever it is you want to do and still get to heavan. It doesn't work that way. Heavan is God's house. He makes the rules and sets the entrance requirements as to who gets in and who doesn't. Break the law, you go to jail. that's the way it is on earth. That's the way it is in eternity. Break the law, don't repent and accept Christ, you go to hell.
Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it so. But if that's a risk that you are willing to take-then so be it. You have heard the truth and have rejected it. I have nothing more to say to you.
To Renata: Girl, please. Do you find that you only have something to say to me only after Rustang and this other person come out with their own sarcky diatribes. Do you feed off of them or something? What's up with that? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 117
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
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Cynique: "There are millions and millions and millions of people who are not Christians, shyfox, including the Jews and Muslims. And it's not like Christianity has exclusive rights to a god figure and it is, after all, just one of the 7 major religions in this world. And followers of each of these doctrines are just as sure their way is the right way as you are. Also, the prophecies of the bible are just warmed-over predictions from prophets of other religions. Bottom line, there is nothing infallible about faith."
Shyfox: I realize that there are people who don't believe in Christ. But the same invitation is open to all. Whoever believes on Christ will be saved. There are people who have converted from these religions and have become passionate followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is our Lord and saviour. You can get to know him. He wants a relationship with each of us. It's not about ritual and ceremony. It's about a one on one relationship with our Lord. There is nothing that you have to do to earn your salvation-simply accept Him and his sacrifice. It doesn't matter what you have done-noone is so far gone in sin that God won't forgive them if they would repend and accept Christ.
Bible prophecies are not just some warmed over copy from some world religions. They are true. All of the prophecies of the Messiah were fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament is riddled with the Messianic prophecies, and down to the last letter were each fulfilled by Christ.
In 1948, Israel became a country; something that it had not been for centuries. This was predicted by the bible.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4398
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:59 pm: |
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You are an incurable prosyletizer with tunnel vision, Shyfox, a zealot who offers pie-in-the- sky in exchange for adoration and blind obedience. Preach on. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 222
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:00 pm: |
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I believe in God. But I am not a church person. I hate to say it, but I *really* don't like church. There are defintely moments where I enjoy a good sermon here and there but its nothing that I want to sit through every Sunday. I rather practice my own beliefs at home.
And from my personal experience, the individuals I've encountered who have taken on Christianity very seriously became very judgemental and self righteous. Another reason why I never been interested in turning into one of those deeply religious fanatics. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:45 pm: |
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Shyfox: I can do a "google" search just as easily as you can. There is evidence for Noah's flood. Like for instance, why are the oceanic fossil remains found on mountain peaks many miles away from any ocean; why do sedimentary deposits which suggests a large movement of water cover such large parts of the earth; the fossils of once living things that have been found in areas not suitable as their habitat; the oldest living tree found in California is about 5,000 years old - the age coinciding with the recovery of the earth after the flood. I could go on. But you see, you won't accept this as evidence because you simply don't want to. there is evidence to support the biblical accounts. I guess it all comes down to faith. The faith of one man to build a humongous boat when because his God told him to and because he listened he and his family survived. The others whom he told to prepare scoffed instead-and well, they no longer exist. So much for faith.
Abdi85: You just love twisting science to support your belifs. You brushed over the fact that there were fossils on top of mountain tops when Rustang mentioned them to show you have old the earth this and now you use it as an example of Nohas flood? There are fossils on top of mountian tops because those mountains did get there yesterday. It's called continental drift and plate tectonics, you know how earth quakes happen when (2) plates come into contact, or are earth quakes now a sign of God's punishment? For example the Himalayas were created over millions of years when the Indian subcontinet crashed into Asia. And of course there were times when PARTS of the planet were flooded and major parts left untouched, iceage anyone? Of course your never going to believe that the earth is over 4 billion years old and continental drift has been occuring so there were points where the continents weren't even the place they are in today, and oceans covered parts of North America and then dried out and other major oceans and lakes all over the world. But your asserting that there was enough water to put fishes on mountain tops?? And somehow there is no physical evidence for a catastrophe like that? Major peice of evidence we're all still here! Explain how the water cycle would stop if water covered the entire planet up to mountain tops? Explain how water vapour wouldn't drown thier lungs as they kept breathing? You can't obviously because you seem to twist scientific evidence that unequivocally proves the earth is way older than 6000 (lol). If lying is your commission then so be it. Ok this is getting ridiculous, your just relying on dishonesty, brushing certian things away and twisting others to suit your point when the evidence is clear. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1041
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 03:36 pm: |
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Hey, when someone's telling the TRUTH, I can't help but to feed off of them. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 118
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:25 pm: |
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Abdi85: "Abdi85: You just love twisting science to support your belifs. You brushed over the fact that there were fossils on top of mountain tops when Rustang mentioned them to show you have old the earth this and now you use it as an example of Nohas flood? There are fossils on top of mountian tops because those mountains did get there yesterday. It's called continental drift and plate tectonics, you know how earth quakes happen when (2) plates come into contact, or are earth quakes now a sign of God's punishment? For example the Himalayas were created over millions of years when the Indian subcontinet crashed into Asia. And of course there were times when PARTS of the planet were flooded and major parts left untouched, iceage anyone? Of course your never going to believe that the earth is over 4 billion years old and continental drift has been occuring so there were points where the continents weren't even the place they are in today, and oceans covered parts of North America and then dried out and other major oceans and lakes all over the world. But your asserting that there was enough water to put fishes on mountain tops?? And somehow there is no physical evidence for a catastrophe like that? Major peice of evidence we're all still here! Explain how the water cycle would stop if water covered the entire planet up to mountain tops? Explain how water vapour wouldn't drown thier lungs as they kept breathing? You can't obviously because you seem to twist scientific evidence that unequivocally proves the earth is way older than 6000 (lol). If lying is your commission then so be it. Ok this is getting ridiculous, your just relying on dishonesty, brushing certian things away and twisting others to suit your point when the evidence is clear. "
Shyfox: I said that I was through with you, but you called me a liar so now its on. I did not brush over anything. I would think that Noah and his family were inside the of the ark. Just makes sense to me. I believe that the bible said that the water receded. I'll think about that when I go sailing this weekend; in my boat on the ocean. We're still here. Are you ignoring the fact that a family did survive the flood. They reproduced and that is why we are still here. Everyone did not die. And how do you know that the Himalyas were created millions of years ago? Is this something that they personally observed? I don't think so. How did they arrive at their theory that certain rocks are this number of years old or age at a certain rate - by personal observation - I don't think so. Like I asked earlier, how do these scientist know that their carbon 14 half life is 5,700 years; certainly not by personal observation. This is a fact that you wax over and totally ignore. The answer is they can't know it; they can believe it, but they can't know it. Just like you can't know it; but you believe the scientists when they say that something is a million years old because you want to believe them. You don't ask how they arrive at their conclusions, you just believe them because they are scientists. It's up to you.
To Renata: I had already guessed that you are a feeder. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 119
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
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I also find it interesting how Abdi85 did not respond to my question as to why certain things are fairytales and certain things are not. Why is he or she prejudiced against Christians. Everyone wants to portray Christians as judgmental and dangerous. But we are not the ones strapping bombs onto ourselves and blowing up airplanes. What is it about Jesus Christ that makes you all so angry. Why do you hate Him so much? Why don't you want anyone else to believe in Him? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 120
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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What do fossils on top of a mountain show about the age of the mountain? It is curious to me how the fossils of sea life got on top of a land locked mountain. Didn't wax over that. The "evidence" offered just does not prove the point that you and Rustang offered it for. Just the opposite. You still can't prove that the earth is millions of years old. None of us were around when the mountains were formed or when the earth moved and when the oceans were formed. You believe the scientist because you want to. They tell you what they believe happened. They did not witness it. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:44 pm: |
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LOL! Ok I see there is no getting through to you, good luck in whatever you try to do. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 121
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
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"LOL! Ok I see there is no getting through to you, good luck in whatever you try to do."
Shyfox: You got that right!
To all of my Christian brothers and sisters; don't be afraid of these people; don't let their ridicule stop you from sharing the gospel. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 122
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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"You are an incurable prosyletizer with tunnel vision, Shyfox, a zealot who offers pie-in-the- sky in exchange for adoration and blind obedience. Preach on. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Shyfox: Better to have tunnel vision than to be totally blind. Hope you got an asbestos blanket. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 355
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
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Let's try this again.These fossils in the bedrock of the himalayan mountains are mostly on vertical surfaces.Mud hundreds of feet thick will not hang on the side of a cliff long enough to turn to stone, so,what is now a cliff face had to be a horizontal surface when these deposits were being formed.This bedrock is not one thick layer, it is countless thin layers, one on top of the other.That could not be the result of a single event.A single event would leave a few thick layers with the heavier substances on the bottom and a layer of sandstone on the top.Since the fossils consist exclusively of marine life forms the surface, when horizontal, must also have been underwater.If it was an area of dry land that was suddenly covered in water in a single cataclysmic event like a portal collapse there would also be at least a few land animals that got drowned.So, based on this, what are now cliff faces 20,000+ feet above sea level were at some time in the past the sea floor.That is the obvious, unarguable fact of the matter.Now, lets assume that this was a very shallow sea indeed, having a depth of about 5 feet, since the deeper the sea was, the faster the rate of ascent would have to be.If this elavation process took 6000 years to occur, then those mountains would have to have been raising up at an average rate of 3 1/3 feet per year.They aren't.The rate is more like a fraction of an inch.
I don't recall seeing your explaination of why I need to observe the decay rate of carbon 14 for thousands of years to know what it is.If I observe it for a week that would be more than enough time to see how fast it's shedding particles and can then easily calculate how long it will take for half of them to be gone.Let's say that they have dated something to be 50,000 years old.Let's also say that their arithmetic skills were so poor when they calculated the decay rate that we must give it a margin for error of 50%.That would mean that, even if they were counting the particles on their fingers, the item is between 25,000 and 75,000 years old.You can see how this is a problem for a theory which calls for a 6000 year old earth. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 31
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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Rustang your forgetting the 'fact' that science is a man made thing so it doesn't matter what you say! The earth is 6000 yrs old because God says so and nothing you can say, no amount of logical irrefutable evidence will change that fact. So all those rational people can just take a hike cause the bible says its true and I will deny, deny, deny and twist evidence when it suites to me to prove my point right. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 32
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 06:45 pm: |
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Shyfox: I said that I was through with you, but you called me a liar so now its on. I did not brush over anything. I would think that Noah and his family were inside the of the ark.
Were they not breathing while still inside the ark? Or did God give me them oxygen tanks while everything else was being covered by water. It's impossible to be anywhere and still manage to breath when massive amounts of water have covered the entire planet all the way to mountian tops. The waters eventually recceding is not my question, the waters wholely and totally covering the earth is, because whether you were in a bunker, on a plane or in the ark, the amount of water needed to cover a planet the size of earth would create massive amounts of water vapour so anyone not drowned in the flood (under water) would drown as they tried to breath. Unless you mean to tell me the ark was air tight and everyone was fitted with oxygen tanks and masks. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
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And yes speaking of water receeding where would all that water recede to? Did they just disappear? Or evaporate instantly? And 2 of every animal Forget the millions of 'big' species, there are even MORE insect species! And he (Noah) what put all of them in a boat? Do you know how long that would take? I am not that good in math and I can tell you it would be very long. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 07:12 pm: |
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No one here is prejudiced against christians in particular. We're just tickled that christians believe we should be prejudiced against anyone who ISN'T christian. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 07:30 pm: |
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Another question Shyfox, one of many I would love for you to answer is where did all that water come from? I am guessing that your going to say rain like the bible says. But there is an important question that goes with that, anything passing through air produces friction and friction produces heat. Are we all on the same page here? OK! Now a massively heavy amount of rainfall (enough to cover the earth remember) has to be really dense and massive droplets constantly passing through the earth for what 40 days straight? The heat that the rain would cause due to friction would send the tempreatures into boiling levels. So anything on the ark or on the planet would die. Forget the fishes in the ocean surviving the heat cause that would kill them! How did they survive the change in water chemistry? Different fishes need different water, some like it cool, some fresh water, some salty water etc etc etc. Or did Noah also manage to find time to create an aquarium in his air tight ark? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 123
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:27 pm: |
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Abdi85: "Another question Shyfox, one of many I would love for you to answer is where did all that water come from? I am guessing that your going to say rain like the bible says. But there is an important question that goes with that, anything passing through air produces friction and friction produces heat. Are we all on the same page here? OK! Now a massively heavy amount of rainfall (enough to cover the earth remember) has to be really dense and massive droplets constantly passing through the earth for what 40 days straight? The heat that the rain would cause due to friction would send the tempreatures into boiling levels. So anything on the ark or on the planet would die. Forget the fishes in the ocean surviving the heat cause that would kill them! How did they survive the change in water chemistry? Different fishes need different water, some like it cool, some fresh water, some salty water etc etc etc. Or did Noah also manage to find time to create an aquarium in his air tight ark?"
Shyfox: Has it ever rained where you live? After the rain here, the temperature falls. Anyone who has lived through a heatwave in summer can tell you what a welcome relief to that heat the rain brings. Secondly, you are assuming that the only source of water for the flood came from rain. The bible does not support that hypothesis.
Genesis 7:11-12 states that: In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all of the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were open.
And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 8:1-2 states: And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged; The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.
This indicates that while rain was a source of the flood water; it wasn't the only source. The great deep may refer to the oceans or to underground springs and sources of water.
The bible says that Noah took into the ark two of every living thing. That would include fish of every variety. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 124
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
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To Abdi85, now that I have answered your question, will you answer mine. Particularly:
""Your right Rustang the Upanishads and the Bhagvad Gita (which is in the Mahabhartra)are important scriptures however, not all Hindu's ascribe to the teachings of both. No one single scripture or philosphy is considered to be 'THE' hindu scripture, like I said the Vedas maybe as they are the most ancient and are the source of modern day Hindu tradition. The Upanishads are extremly thought provoking and beautiful and unifies the entire universe and all universes into one, we're all a peice, sparks of Brahman(the ultimate reality). The Bhagvad Gita is remarkable too, I mean the section where Arjuna realizes that his friend and chariot driver, Krishna is really God incarnet and he asks him to show his trueself, its got to be the most beautiful description of the undescribable ever written. Learning about other cultures forms of spiritual experience is really an eye opener in terms of your own spirituality, people should do it more often."
Now why is this not a fairytale? Why don't you feel enriched by learning about Christ and the bible? Where is your putrid hatred and ridicule of those who hold these beliefs and experiences? |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
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Were not talking about rain covering a small geographic area. Were talking about rain covering the entire planet and heavy amounts of rain massive amounts of rain to cover the entire world, and by your accounts mountian tops, like the Himalayas which are over 30 000 feet above sea level. So you still have no way of answering that point! Unless you want to deny that massive dense rainfall enough to cover the planet (which is impossible by the way) would not cause friction espically after sustained for for 40 days and 40 nights. You haven't answered anything just posted some bible verses. Like I asked before how did he have the time to put 2 of every species living today on the ark? And still have time to build an aquarium for the fishes? LOL give it up your way in over your head. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 36
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:45 pm: |
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I don't have hate for anything! And I don't see any of those teachings telling me I am terrible and going to hell because I don't adhere to what they say! The rhetoric of hindu fundamentalists today is scary as hell, but I have to admit that hindu philosphical teachings isn't as judgmental and hate fullied as Abrahamic religions, not to say they (Indic religions) don't have thier issues. Lastly, Hindus aren't going around the world telling everyone that thier wrong as hell and should repent and that there is only one way God. Thier gripe is more political, cultural and based in the Subcontinent. If being extremly wary and suspicious of any teaching that seeks to control everything in my life including what I think like christianity and likeminded religions do is considered hate? Then so be it. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 125
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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Abdi85: "Were not talking about rain covering a small geographic area. Were talking about rain covering the entire planet and heavy amounts of rain massive amounts of rain to cover the entire world, and by your accounts mountian tops, like the Himalayas which are over 30 000 feet above sea level. So you still have no way of answering that point! Unless you want to deny that massive dense rainfall enough to cover the planet (which is impossible by the way) would not cause friction espically after sustained for for 40 days and 40 nights. You haven't answered anything just posted some bible verses. Like I asked before how did he have the time to put 2 of every species living today on the ark? And still have time to build an aquarium for the fishes? LOL give it up your way in over your head."
Shyfox: Why don't you read the post before you respond to it. The bible states that rain was not the only source of water of the flood. The water also came from the oceans of the earth and underground water springs and sources. Don't know why you choose to ignore these points, since they answer your question.
As far as the temperature is concerned, I still don't get what you are talking about. Whenever it rains here, the temperature falls.
The ark was complete before anyone or anything boarded. The animals probably came on their own having been called by God.
You consider yourself to be smarter than the average person, but all you are is arrogant. You can't even read. The bible clearly says that the fountains of the deep were broken; this should tell you that underground water springs and the oceans themselves were a source of the flood water in addition to the rain. Also, our planet today is covered mostly by water. So, I don't see how you can claim that mountains being buried under water is impossible. Do you or anyone else know how deep the oceans really are? I don't.
Abdi85: "I don't have hate for anything! And I don't see any of those teachings telling me I am terrible and going to hell because I don't adhere to what they say! The rhetoric of hindu fundamentalists today is scary as hell, but I have to admit that hindu philosphical teachings isn't as judgmental and hate fullied as Abrahamic religions, not to say they (Indic religions) don't have thier issues. Lastly, Hindus aren't going around the world telling everyone that thier wrong as hell and should repent and that there is only one way God. Thier gripe is more political, cultural and based in the Subcontinent. If being extremly wary and suspicious of any teaching that seeks to control everything in my life including what I think like christianity and likeminded religions do is considered hate? Then so be it."
Shyfox: Why don't you consider them to be fairytales? You seem to be unable to answer this question.
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Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 126
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:26 pm: |
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And here's another answer for you if the others don't suffice: The Lord is God. He made water, he made the earth. He can certainly make them do whatever it is He wants them to do. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 127
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
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Abdi85: Were they not breathing while still inside the ark? Or did God give me them oxygen tanks while everything else was being covered by water. It's impossible to be anywhere and still manage to breath when massive amounts of water have covered the entire planet all the way to mountian tops. The waters eventually recceding is not my question, the waters wholely and totally covering the earth is, because whether you were in a bunker, on a plane or in the ark, the amount of water needed to cover a planet the size of earth would create massive amounts of water vapour so anyone not drowned in the flood (under water) would drown as they tried to breath. Unless you mean to tell me the ark was air tight and everyone was fitted with oxygen tanks and masks.
Shyfox: YOu really ought to read the bible before you dispute it. Again, rain not the only source of flood water. Unless some fool is standing with their nose in the air in a rain shower, I don't see why breathing in the rain is a problem.
Also, I am sure that there was oxygen inside the ark. The same way that there is oxygen inside our homes. There is oxygen in your house even when all of the door and windows are shut during a rain storm. I know this from experience. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 128
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:56 pm: |
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Abdi85: "I don't have hate for anything! And I don't see any of those teachings telling me I am terrible and going to hell because I don't adhere to what they say! The rhetoric of hindu fundamentalists today is scary as hell, but I have to admit that hindu philosphical teachings isn't as judgmental and hate fullied as Abrahamic religions, not to say they (Indic religions) don't have thier issues. Lastly, Hindus aren't going around the world telling everyone that thier wrong as hell and should repent and that there is only one way God. Thier gripe is more political, cultural and based in the Subcontinent. If being extremly wary and suspicious of any teaching that seeks to control everything in my life including what I think like christianity and likeminded religions do is considered hate? Then so be it."
Shyfox: Where is the hate in Christ? None of you seem to have a problem with obeying man's law. I take it that none of you have violated any of the criminal codes of your states. I also assume that none of you have a problem with murderers and other law breakers being put behind bars.
Why is it then, that you have trouble with God's law. God is far more merciful to the lawbreaker that human judges are for those who break man's laws. Jesus took the penalty for our sins on Himself. Those who accept His sacrifice won't be punished. Yet, you accuse Him of hate. Unbelievable. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4401
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:59 pm: |
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Poor shyfox is imprisoned by the bars of a closed mind, shackled to verses and chapters, unable to use her brain to express an independant thought. She also resorts to deviousness by labeling those who disagree with her as "haters". But I forgive her because her fear of hell-fire and damnation has petrified her, convinced her that if she parrots a doctrine that judges and punishes and demands, this will earn her brownie points with her lord. I can help but imagine that if the prophet Jesus was alive today, he would distance himself from those like Shyfox who have distorted his intent and turned him into a petty, narrow-minded, egocentric prig. But all is not lost for Christianity. The Unitarians got it right! LOL. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 129
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
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Cynique: "Poor shyfox is imprisoned by the bars of a closed mind, shackled to verses and chapters, unable to use her brain to express an independant thought. She also resorts to deviousness by labeling those who disagree with her as "haters". But I forgive her because her fear of hell-fire and damnation has petrified her, convinced her that if she parrots a doctrine that judges and punishes and demands, this will earn her brownie points with her lord. I can help but imagine that if the prophet Jesus was alive today, he would distance himself from those like Shyfox who have distorted his intent and turned him into a petty, narrow-minded, egocentric prig. But all is not lost for Christianity. The Unitarians got it right! LOL."
Shyfox: Poor Cynique. Creating for herself a god and a Jesus who simply don't exist and thinking she can escape the wrath to come by doing so. It was given to me to warn you. Jesus gave us this commission. Dream on lady. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
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Shyfox: YOu really ought to read the bible before you dispute it. Again, rain not the only source of flood water. Unless some fool is standing with their nose in the air in a rain shower, I don't see why breathing in the rain is a problem.
Also, I am sure that there was oxygen inside the ark. The same way that there is oxygen inside our homes. There is oxygen in your house even when all of the door and windows are shut during a rain storm. I know this from experience.
Abdi85: Now can you honestly say that is a valid response to any of my agruments/questions? You have not answered the question! You have just brushed aside the physical laws of the earth and opted for a bible verse.
Shyfox:Unless some fool is standing with their nose in the air in a rain shower, I don't see why breathing in the rain is a problem.
Abdi85: Breathing when the world is covered by water all the way up to mountian tops is a problem, I don't see why you can't wrap your mind around that. See, on planet earth there is something called a hydrosphere. Water evapourates, then goes into the atmosphere and after convection rains back (more or less, this is my simplified version). Now if water covered mountain tops, like the Himalayas which is over 30, 000 feet above sea level then massive amounts of water are needed (I hope we are in agreement on that). See that water is still in the water cycle and evapourating, earth now is a pretty big planet in case you didn't notice, therefore the amount of water needed and the amount of water evapourating would have killed anyone locked up in the ark. They would be inhaling massive amounts of evapourated water and would drown as they breathed. In your world I guess oceans don't evaporate and there is no such thing as an active hydroshpere. I would also assume in your world the laws of physics don't come into play and friction doesn't create heat. Now unless you want to create a whole new theory on how water works on planet earth, then that compleatly destroys any argument you have of a world wide deluge. Quoteing some bible verse is not sufficient evidence to get any reasonable person to believe a thing you have to say on this board. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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And here's another answer for you if the others don't suffice: The Lord is God. He made water, he made the earth. He can certainly make them do whatever it is He wants them to do.
Abdi85: You said it! When all else fails and your in a corner bring out the big guns! LOL! |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 130
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
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And why would Jesus distance Himself from me for doing the very thing that He commissioned His followers to do? Hell scares me - I don't want to go there. Who in their right mind does. Brownie points with my Lord-again, I am simply doing what He told me to do and warning you to flee the wrath that is to come. Jesus preached on the subject of hell so many times. Read the new testament and see for yourself; I won't ask you to take my word for it. Jesus was not a prophet, He is the son of the living God and He is not dead, He is very much alive. You accuse me of turning Jesus into something that He is not; but you are the one who has done that. You have reduced Him form being the saviour of the world and the son of the living God to being a prophet. The jesus that you describe and created for yourself does not have to worry about distancing himself from me; I want no part of him.
You accuse me of deviousness, but you cannot cite one passage of scripture or of anything to support your contentions about this jesus that you have created. You know why; he does not exist anywhere except in your own dark imagination.
Jesus predicted his followers would receive the very treatment that I have received here.
John 15:18-23: If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you. The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
So the junk for you guys is nothing new. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 131
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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Abdi85: Breathing when the world is covered by water all the way up to mountian tops is a problem, I don't see why you can't wrap your mind around that. See, on planet earth there is something called a hydrosphere. Water evapourates, then goes into the atmosphere and after convection rains back (more or less, this is my simplified version). Now if water covered mountain tops, like the Himalayas which is over 30, 000 feet above sea level then massive amounts of water are needed (I hope we are in agreement on that). See that water is still in the water cycle and evapourating, earth now is a pretty big planet in case you didn't notice, therefore the amount of water needed and the amount of water evapourating would have killed anyone locked up in the ark. They would be inhaling massive amounts of evapourated water and would drown as they breathed. In your world I guess oceans don't evaporate and there is no such thing as an active hydroshpere. I would also assume in your world the laws of physics don't come into play and friction doesn't create heat. Now unless you want to create a whole new theory on how water works on planet earth, then that compleatly destroys any argument you have of a world wide deluge. Quoteing some bible verse is not sufficient evidence to get any reasonable person to believe a thing you have to say on this board."
And I don't see why you can't simply wrap your mind around the fact that not all of the water that covered the earth was caused by rainfall.
The last time that I checked, the earth still had oceans. You are assuming that the rain that fell on Noah was caused by something other than an act of God. God is God. He can do anything. I am also assuming that you think that this water evaporated in one day. It didn't. You have to remember, that this is not a flood like we know floods; this was a supernatural event designed to accomplish a specific purpose. God created the laws of nature. He can certainly suspend them if in fact this is what He did. Nothing is impossible with God. You can't wrap your brain around this concept I know; oh well... |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 132
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:13 pm: |
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Has anyone ever been drowned by water vapour? Please let me know. Where did you come up with this idea anyway? I have to admit, this is a new one. A dumb one; but a new one just the same. |
Brownbeauty123
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 224
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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Abdi--
On the Discovery channel, they discussed Noah's Arc. They all gathered that yes, it was nearly impossible to get 2 animals of every kind on the face of the earth to fit into an arc but more likely they got 2 of every animal from their region/land. You also have to take into account that these ppl lived thousands of years ago and knew nothing of all the animals, species, and insects that we know of today. So in their minds, all the animals, fishes etc that they brought with them was all that ever existed in their heads.
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Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 39
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:55 pm: |
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Shyfox:And I don't see why you can't simply wrap your mind around the fact that not all of the water that covered the earth was caused by rainfall.
The last time that I checked, the earth still had oceans. You are assuming that the rain that fell on Noah was caused by something other than an act of God. God is God. He can do anything. I am also assuming that you think that this water evaporated in one day. It didn't. You have to remember, that this is not a flood like we know floods; this was a supernatural event designed to accomplish a specific purpose. God created the laws of nature. He can certainly suspend them if in fact this is what He did. Nothing is impossible with God. You can't wrap your brain around this concept I know; oh well...
Abdi85: Like I said, when all else fails bring out the big guns! And you have certinely done that here. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4402
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 01:05 am: |
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As any religious historian can tell you, shy fox, taking into account the era in which he existed, a lot of things can be deduced about the life and times and persona of the man called Jesus, most of which does not appear in the bible because the new testatment does not contain anything that would be contrary to the self-serving image of Jesus that his disciples forged 60-something years after his death. You cling to the idea that a book which was hand-copied, interpreted, and tampered with, losing a lot in its various translations, is an infallible document that serves as your hot-line to heaven, and that nothing you say can be challenged. But, since you insist on regarding this book as the gospel, the Unitarian denomination of Christianity is well-versed in the bible, and who is to say that their view of a worldly Jesus who was simply a prophet isn't more authentic than the unworldly Jew certain men have turned into a holy savior? Anyway, so much for a discussion that can never be resolved. I'm done. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:15 am: |
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Cynique: "As any religious historian can tell you, shy fox, taking into account the era in which he existed, a lot of things can be deduced about the life and times and persona of the man called Jesus, most of which does not appear in the bible because the new testatment does not contain anything that would be contrary to the self-serving image of Jesus that his disciples forged 60-something years after his death. You cling to the idea that a book which was hand-copied, interpreted, and tampered with, losing a lot in its various translations, is an infallible document that serves as your hot-line to heaven, and that nothing you say can be challenged. But, since you insist on regarding this book as the gospel, the Unitarian denomination of Christianity is well-versed in the bible, and who is to say that their view of a worldly Jesus who was simply a prophet isn't more authentic than the unworldly Jew certain men have turned into a holy savior? Anyway, so much for a discussion that can never be resolved. I'm done."
Shyfox: Jesus is not a prophet. He is the son of God. What do we gain by making him more than what you claim him to be. Do you think that it is fun talking to people like you and Abdi85 and the feeder. No it's not. You claim that the new testament is a forgery. You are a liar Cynique. A bald faced liar. You have no proof of that. On your own head be it. YOu have no proof that this book was tampered with, that anythign was lost in the translation or any of the other groundless charges that you make. Where is your proof. You have thrown your rocks and now you run. Coward and liar.
Abdi85: When all else fails bring out the big guns. You assume that something has failed. All you have done is offer up a lot of unsupported supposition, cloathed it in pseudo-scientific language and present it as evidence that the flood never happened. When all it has done is show you to be the cowardly, Christian hater that you claim not to be. You still can't answer my question as to why sea fossils were found at the top of a landlocked mountain. That would support the biblical claims that water covered the mountain peaks. The bible tells us that the fountains of the deep were broken by God when it started to rain. That tells us that some of this flood water came from the oceans of the earth and from underground water mains and sources. But that't not good enough for you. YOu still want to cling to the rainwater theory when there is no basis to support it. YOu are hopeless. Oh yeah, Where is your proof that anyone has ever drowned on water vapour? I'm still waiting. It rained here yesterday; am I supposed to leave the house wearing scuba gear so that I don't drown in the water vapor. Inquiring minds want to know. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:45 am: |
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Also, here's another tidbit for you Cynqiue; you accuse the apostles of having forged the accounts of the life of Jesus for their own personal gain. The fact of the matter is, that these men had no reason to do what you claim they did; in fact, they had every reason to deny Christ and hold Him up as a fraud. All of the law was against them; these men were tortured, imprisoned, and jailed for propogating the gospels. And yet they persisted. Why-because they knew the truth-they were eye witnesses to it. Who is willing to die for a lie.
Simon Greenleaf, the founder of the Harvard Law School and author on the most authoratative treatise on evidence in american jurisprudence looked at all of the evidence of the resurrection, examined all of the testimony and came to the conclusion that the resurrection of Jesus is as well established as any other event in history. When you guys are doing your next google search to come up with questions for Shyfox, google Simon Greenleaf, a former atheist, who became a follower of Jesus Christ. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 356
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 09:16 am: |
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So, Shyfox, are you saying that you agree that what is now the peaks of the himalayans was at one time the sea floor?Apparantly, dismissiveness has become a lifestyle.Go back and read my post made on 5/10 at 6:19.One of the few ways that those fossils definitely did not get there was a by a single cataclysmic event occuring within anything resembling recent times.
I am also still waiting for your explaination of why a person would need to observe the ragioactive decay of carbon 14 for thousands of years to determine the rate of decay.
And, apparantly, the story keeps getting better.You are also trying to suggest that all of the marine life died in Noah's flood and that he took two each of them also?Let's look at a species like, say, the angler fish.This guy lives so deep in the ocean that light can't make it that far down.Overlooking the fact that if you bring one anywhere near the surface it will explode like a grenade because of the pressure differential,how exactly would one go about making these things aware that a flood was even occuring?They're just down there riding around looking for something to eat.Short-term events on the surface have no effect on them at all.
I don't know why you wouldn't just use the same explaination for where the water went after the flood that the orthodox clergy used for centuries.It ran off the sides of the earth.
You asked Abdi85 to proof that you were presenting a fairy tale. Why? You have established this far more effectively than he probably ever could.You've got mud hanging in mid air on cliffs long enough to turn to stone, creatures that live hundreds of feet underwater drowning in a flood on the land,variable rates of decay for radioactive elements,massive quantiies of water appearing at disappearing just because god made water and he can make it do whatever he wants.How is this any different from the story about a magic broom fetching water? |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 135
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Dear Rustang: You are full of lets says. Let's not say. Lets prove. You could only know that carbon 14 had a half life of 5,700 years by personal observation. What is you are wrong on your rate of decay. You could only know that it has a half life if 5,700 years later you are around to observe it. I thought that scientific theories were verifiable by sight, sound, you know the senses. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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So, Shyfox, are you saying that you agree that what is now the peaks of the himalayans was at one time the sea floor?"
What I am saying is that the peaks of these mountains were once covered by water. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4403
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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Believe it or not, shyfox there are 2 sides to every question and what we are engaging in is an ongoing debate spanning centuries. You have stated your case, and cited the studies of a man who qualifies his claims by saying that what he "proves" is "as established as any other historical event", which means his leap of faith is not irrefutable because, as we know, history is fluid and subject to revisionism. And, yes, early Christians were willing to die for their cause because in its early stages, Christianity was a cult of fanatics. The Christ figure has endured over time because what he preached was universal message of love and peace that is the root of all belief systems. The down-side is how men via of religion have manipulated and enhanced and corrupted Jesus' teachings to justify their own intolerance. That's why Christianity is fragmented into countless denominations, each claiming their way is the only way. Few deny the exstence of an almighty force of the universe. The conflict arises when flawed men claiming to be inspired, try to condense this power into story form. That's the case I state. And the only way you can refute it is to quote from a book which I do not regard as infallible. And so it goes. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 40
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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Shyfox:Dear Rustang: You are full of lets says. Let's not say. Lets prove. You could only know that carbon 14 had a half life of 5,700 years by personal observation. What is you are wrong on your rate of decay. You could only know that it has a half life if 5,700 years later you are around to observe it. I thought that scientific theories were verifiable by sight, sound, you know the senses.
Abdi85: See Rustang in her world math cannot be used to predict anything with assurance. Math,biology, geology means nothing because its not supporting her claims of a 6000 yr old earth. So in her world, unless the bible tells her there are literally millions of specices on earth, and earth has an active hydropshere and water cycle etc etc etc, she won't believe you. Even though we have obviously shown her how impossible a worldwide flood covering the tops of the Himalayas could have occured recently, she still wants to hold on it, ignoring some information, dismissing others, and twisting some to fit her neat 6000yr old earth FAIRY TALE! And Rustang is right, everytime you make a post trying to disprove any of us,Shyfox you consistently prove how much of a fairy tale the bible really is. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 03:39 pm: |
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You also seemed to conveitnly ignore how excatly Mr. Noah could put (2) of every species on the ark, when there are millions of specics on earth. Did he do it by himself? Did he have help? And how long was he given a few thousand years to fit them all into the Ark? From what I hear correct if I'm wrong Shyfox he had 2 weeks? Maybe longer? How excately did he get all those animals on a boat? Also did he bring a colony of different insect species? Because insects can't repopulate with a male and female alone, they need a queen and hordes of workers to take care of and feed the Queen or she dies. Since you seem to dismiss everything else wondering if you could also answer these few questions, along with everything else? (Still hoping for a miracle). |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 357
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 06:20 pm: |
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While we're at it, how about the dinosaurs, Shyfox? Did such creatures ever exist? If yes, do they still exist today? If no, what happened to them? I wonder how Noah managed to lasso a T-Rex? Twice, come to think of it.If they were still around in Noah's time he would have had to bring a couple of them with him.That could get real interesting.Maybe Noah just said to himself 'screw what god said.There's no way I'm messing around with that thing.' and just left them behind.What about Argentinasaurus?A pair of them would have been bigger than the ark,though. Diplodocus wasn't exactly a light-weight, either.Gee, that boat must have been huge.But, wait.The dimensions are given.I seem to recall it being something on the order of 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits.If a cubit is about 18 inches, which everyone pretty much agrees on, that would be about 150 yds by 25yds and 15 yds tall.That isn't very big.But, I suppose one man and his three sons can only do so much.Especially without the benefit of heavy equipment, power tools or steel.
Microbial life? I guess he had to isolate, indentify and bring along two each of those, also.That could get a little complicated, especially without glass of any sort.I guess we have to rely on a helping hand from The Other Side to make all of that doable.I wonder what happened to all of those dinosaurs. |
Jackie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 175
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 07:01 pm: |
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Rustang, you get the post of the year thread for that one !!! LOL !!!!!! |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 07:11 pm: |
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LOL |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 137
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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Cynique: "Believe it or not, shyfox there are 2 sides to every question and what we are engaging in is an ongoing debate spanning centuries. You have stated your case, and cited the studies of a man who qualifies his claims by saying that what he "proves" is "as established as any other historical event", which means his leap of faith is not irrefutable because, as we know, history is fluid and subject to revisionism. And, yes, early Christians were willing to die for their cause because in its early stages, Christianity was a cult of fanatics. The Christ figure has endured over time because what he preached was universal message of love and peace that is the root of all belief systems. The down-side is how men via of religion have manipulated and enhanced and corrupted Jesus' teachings to justify their own intolerance. That's why Christianity is fragmented into countless denominations, each claiming their way is the only way. Few deny the exstence of an almighty force of the universe. The conflict arises when flawed men claiming to be inspired, try to condense this power into story form. That's the case I state. And the only way you can refute it is to quote from a book which I do not regard as infallible. And so it goes."
Shyfox: There are two sides to every story. This is no exception. Christ and eternal life or disbelief and damnation. Take your pick. Christianity was a cult of fanatics. Well, were the romans fanatics? The romans could have put an end to Christianity before it even started, by doing one simple thing- by producing the body of Jesus. If there was one, don't you think that the romans would have taken it out of the tomb and put it up on some cross alongside the road to Jerusalum for travelers in and out of the city to see - as a grim object lesson to those who would defy the emperor by claiming divinity for themselves or for any breach of the emperor's peace. You better believe they would have. But you see, the didn't because there was no body to produce. Jesus walked out of that borrowed tomb-alive forever more. You dont' believe the bible; that is obvious. You have dismissed the powerful eyewitness testimony of the apostles and dismiss them as fanatics. These men had nothing to gain by spreading the gospel. They lost every earthly thing they ever possessed by doing so-even their lives. This means nothing to you. So be it.
Smarter people than you have tried for years to refute and discredit the bible-but you know what it is still here.
Abdi85: "Abdi85: See Rustang in her world math cannot be used to predict anything with assurance. Math,biology, geology means nothing because its not supporting her claims of a 6000 yr old earth. So in her world, unless the bible tells her there are literally millions of specices on earth, and earth has an active hydropshere and water cycle etc etc etc, she won't believe you. Even though we have obviously shown her how impossible a worldwide flood covering the tops of the Himalayas could have occured recently, she still wants to hold on it, ignoring some information, dismissing others, and twisting some to fit her neat 6000yr old earth FAIRY TALE! And Rustang is right, everytime you make a post trying to disprove any of us,Shyfox you consistently prove how much of a fairy tale the bible really is."
Shyfox: Just because you say something is twisted, doesn't mean that it is. I am beginning to see the trouble that you and Rustang have with the bible; you won't admit it is the inspired, infallible word of God and the source of all truth because the two of you consider yourselves the source of all truth.
Do you realize that all science is is man's observation of nature; and from those observations he draws conclusions based upon what he has observed. Some of those conclusions are arrived at based upon supposition and assumptions.
Take for instance, carbon 14 dating. Remember that one. I stated that there is no way for scientists to know that it has a half life of 5,700 years because no person has lived that long to have witness it's decay and decline. So they make assumptions based upon assumptions. There are some scientist who admit that this way of dating is flawed. Carbon 14 dating works by comparing the amount of carbon 14 in a dead thing to the amount that was present in it when it was alive. In order to do this, you would have to know how much carbon 14 was present in the thing when the it was alive. How can a scientist now how much carbon 14 was in something when it was alive when they claim that it is 10,000 years old. they certainly were not around at that time to measure it. See how assumptions are involved here. If that twisting, so be it.
Abdi85: "You also seemed to conveitnly ignore how excatly Mr. Noah could put (2) of every species on the ark, when there are millions of specics on earth. Did he do it by himself? Did he have help? And how long was he given a few thousand years to fit them all into the Ark? From what I hear correct if I'm wrong Shyfox he had 2 weeks? Maybe longer? How excately did he get all those animals on a boat? Also did he bring a colony of different insect species? Because insects can't repopulate with a male and female alone, they need a queen and hordes of workers to take care of and feed the Queen or she dies. Since you seem to dismiss everything else wondering if you could also answer these few questions, along with everything else? (Still hoping for a miracle)."
Shyfox: God helped him. Since you don't believe in God, this answer won't satisfy you. Why are you hoping for a miracle? In your dark world, there doesn't exist a God to do miracles. And we have only your word for it that there are millions of species on earth. That's not good enough.
Now about the guy in the chariot and the transforming deity? Why is this not a fairytale? Can science prove that it happened? Somethings are fairytales and somethings aren't. Why is that?
Rustang: "While we're at it, how about the dinosaurs, Shyfox? Did such creatures ever exist? If yes, do they still exist today? If no, what happened to them? I wonder how Noah managed to lasso a T-Rex? Twice, come to think of it.If they were still around in Noah's time he would have had to bring a couple of them with him.That could get real interesting.Maybe Noah just said to himself 'screw what god said.There's no way I'm messing around with that thing.' and just left them behind.What about Argentinasaurus?A pair of them would have been bigger than the ark,though. Diplodocus wasn't exactly a light-weight, either.Gee, that boat must have been huge.But, wait.The dimensions are given.I seem to recall it being something on the order of 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits.If a cubit is about 18 inches, which everyone pretty much agrees on, that would be about 150 yds by 25yds and 15 yds tall.That isn't very big.But, I suppose one man and his three sons can only do so much.Especially without the benefit of heavy equipment, power tools or steel.
Microbial life? I guess he had to isolate, indentify and bring along two each of those, also.That could get a little complicated, especially without glass of any sort.I guess we have to rely on a helping hand from The Other Side to make all of that doable.I wonder what happened to all of those dinosaurs."
Shyfox: YOu are assuming that all of these animals, including the dinosaurs, were adults. Besides, not all of the creatures that we call dinosaurs were huge. Why don't you buy a book on dinosaurs and you will see for yourself. Two of each kind went on the ark and the rest drowned.
A hard heart - You read about them, but conversing with someone who has one is something altogether different. You are openly mocking me. I know it. YOu won't believe anything that I say to support my position. It's not about that anymore. You have moved on. Your true colors are showing by the way. Despite your protestations, it is obvious that you hate God. Well, so be it. I hope that you remember this discourse when the things that I have warned you about happen.
Jude verse 18: HOw that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
YOu see, we saw you coming.
What makes the human heart dry out and turn hard? Jackie: "Rustang, you get the post of the year thread for that one !!! LOL !!!!!! "
Shyfox: Laugh away. It won't last.
A lot of people ask how a loving God can send people to a place as horrible as hell. Well read Rustang, Cynique and Abdi85's posts are wonder no more. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4408
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:52 pm: |
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You are so clueless, shy fox. It's self-righteous, hypocrites like you who give Christianity a bad name. You wrap yourself in your false piety and actually believe that you are in a position to judge others for the "sin" of not agreeing with your point of view. Your fear and cowardice doesn't allow you to consider that it's not about reading the bible and praising the lord, it's about how people live their lives and treat one another. I pity you and your lack of tolerance because you worship and emulate a vindictive god who you think will reward you for how you act, not by what's really in your heart. |
Shyfox
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 138
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
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Cynique: You are so clueless, shy fox. It's self-righteous, hypocrites like you who give Christianity a bad name. You wrap yourself in your false piety and actually believe that you are in a position to judge others for the "sin" of not agreeing with your point of view. Your fear and cowardice doesn't allow you to consider that it's not about reading the bible and praising the lord, it's about how people live their lives and treat one another. I pity you and your lack of tolerance because you worship and emulate a vindictive god who you think will reward you for how you act, not by what's really in your heart."
Shyfox: I pity you. You are a self deceived hard hearted person who does not want to believe anything other than what she wants to believe. God has said that he will punish sin. He has also made a way for us to escape the punishment for those sins. Now does that sound like a vindictive God to you. All self rightous means is that you make yourself rightous. Faith in God is accounted unto the person as rightousness. Salvation does not come by any good works. It is a gift from God. You have created a false god for yourself-one who is deaf, dumb, impotent and indifferent to sin and to how his people live their lives. And because no one else accepts this imaginary deity, you call them cowardly and self rightous.
But I am finished with you Cynique and with the rest of you on this board. Say what you want. Just remember that we had this discourse when the things that I warned you about begin to happen.
Matthew 10:14 - And whoever shall not receive you nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Jackie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 176
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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God save me from your followers... |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1046
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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Go to an average church (I attended until I was about 20).
More single never married mothers, gang-banging boys, disrespectful children, envious backstabbers, and cheating spouses (sometimes including the preacher) than you'd meet OUTSIDE of the church.
And these are the same people who want to tell you what to do with your child/husband/life, etc. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1047
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
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I'm going to tell the story of a minister I once met. I'm not going to paint all christians with this same broad brush, because I SERIOUSLY hope they're not all this stupid and hypocritical.
She was the minister of a church (yes, people actually came to listen to her every week) and God put it in her heart to warn me that I'm going to hell because I have foreigners as friends and because I won't go to church...(stop laughing and be nice now).
So, I played along with this fundamentalist schtick and said it's impossible for her to be a minister because women aren't even to speak in church.
Her answer? NO LIE!
"That part of the bible doesn't apply anymore."
So, we got into an argument about "which" parts are still applicable and which parts are not. Blah, blah, blah.
It seems that she believes the parts pertaining to women don't apply anymore because the role of women has changed. But foreigners are still foreigners and must be avoided.
She's even written a book called:
"GOD DON'T LOVE ME BECAUSE I'M BLACK"
yep, DON'T.
It may or may not be a good book, I never took the time to read it. Her first name is Sandra. Never married mother to THREE children. (apparently god's "fornication" laws don't apply anymore either.)
Cracks me up every time I think about her.
I'm not as self-righteous as I may seem. I just HATE IT, when people bitch and yell about me not following the bible, and they're not even following it themselves. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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And hellz yeah I'm judging her, but she should know that she should:
Judge not lest ye BE judged.
Maybe if she had a husband to dote on and actually read the bible she holds so dear she wouldn't have all day to think about where MY friends are from.
I'm just being mean now. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 358
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:59 am: |
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Shyfox,actually I already have several books about dinosaurs.And yes, I have read every one of them.You make a good point when you suggest that Noah might have taken juvenile specimens.I'll even grant that it was possible for him tell male from female, which is a very difficult thing to do with juvenile reptiles.You are saying that he had dinosaurs on the ark.Where are they now?What happened to them?Why is it that all of humanity had no idea that these creatures even existed up until a little over a hundred years ago?There is no reference to such creatures in any writings prior to the discovery of fossils in the 18th century.No cave paintings, no papyrus scrolls, no gothic novels, no nothing.Surely a huge sauropod like brachiasaurus would have been considered noteworthy by somebody, as would a therapod such as allosaurus.How about sarcosuccus emperator? Do you think anyone would notice a crocodile the size of a greyhound bus?(Noah would certainly want to have a couple of those with him.)There is no mention of anything like that in any ancient writings in any part of the world.Maybe Noah didn;t really have any dinosaurs on the ark.If they had gone extinct prior to this flood event he wouldn't have them.No mention of them prior to the flood either.They must have gone extinct long before the advent of writing.That would account for everything quite neatly.
As far as microbial life goes, Noah had no idea such a thing existed, nor did he have the means to detect them,and no amount of flooding would be sufficient to wipe them out, so the sensible thing to do would be to get off of your high horse for a moment and concede that, while god SAID every living thing, this is one of those cases in which every doesn't mean every.
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Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 43
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 02:07 am: |
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Wow Shyfox your ranting and raving has lead to a nervous breakdown. I feel bad for you, the way only a self absorbed 21 year old can. I just hope you will gain some sense of mental stability before someone breaks it to you that Ariel isn't under the sea and no Micheal Jackson is not the real Peter Pan despite what he might say.
Shyfox:But I am finished with you Cynique and with the rest of you on this board. Say what you want. Just remember that we had this discourse when the things that I warned you about begin to happen.
Shyfox:Jude verse 18: HOw that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
YOu see, we saw you coming.
Abdi85: Ok then you really need to tell me whoes going to die on Lost! And how excately did that plane crash? Your arrogance and sense of denial is hilarious. Anyone who doesn't agree with you, A. doesn't believe in God, and B. Hates God. Wow, if that's not crazy I honestly don't know what is!
Shyfox:Now about the guy in the chariot and the transforming deity? Why is this not a fairytale? Can science prove that it happened? Somethings are fairytales and somethings aren't. Why is that?
Abdi85: I never said that it wasn't a fairy tale, actually to me it is a fairy tale but the philosohoical aspects I find quite interesting and inspiring. See unlike you I don't take religious texts as literal, therefore I can read the Bhagvad Gita and enjoy it for it is trying to say, rather then the believeing that 2 massive armies of over 30 million people were fighting on the Indian subcontinent 9000yrs ago. Your only beef against other religous texts is that they don't agree with what the bible says, so what? The only way you can attempt to disprove any other religous text is for you to use the bible. And guess what, they can do the same to the bible, and neither attempt produces any concrete evidence, your just denying certian concepts and philosphical precepts because they don't agree with you. I bet that's when science comes in real handy huh? But then again your mind is so warped you don't need any real world deductions to prove or disprove anything, you've got the bible, hey its turned you into a raveing lunatic so far I bet there's way more it can do! I think I have witnessed its power! |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 165
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 03:46 am: |
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Didn't the dinosaurs disappear 200 million years ago?
Just like Kark Marx said "Religion is the opium of the masses", it better to be addicted to religion than be hooked on crack, ice, smack, etc. |
Abdi85
Regular Poster
Username: Abdi85
Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 05:03 am: |
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Anunaki3600:Didn't the dinosaurs disappear 200 million years ago?
Just like Kark Marx said "Religion is the opium of the masses", it better to be addicted to religion than be hooked on crack, ice, smack, etc.
Abdi85: Then you clearly haven't read Shyfox's posts. By the way Shyfox, enlighten me what excately is a feeder? I think you were calling Renata that. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 359
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 09:09 am: |
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Anunaki3600, the dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago.The number of species had been declining at a pretty vigourous pace for the previous 10 million years or so up until an asteroid about 6 miles across slammed into the earth near the yucatan peninsula.It is generally believed that the impact, along with other factors such as radically increased volcanic activity on the indian subcontinent,is what finished them off.
From reading her last couple of posts, it appears that we have all been consigned to the nether realm.Oh, well.(I hate it when that happens )I was wondering about that'feeder' thing myself, along with the way that she started capitalizing 'Commission'.I wonder how one would go about acquiring such a commission.Is that like the british military used to be when a commission as captain or something would become available and you bought it?Would that involve a paycheck? Or would one have to wait until reaching the other side to cash in? |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 166
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Slyfox should look up the "Gospel of Judas" and learn something new about Jesus. |
Proudsista
First Time Poster
Username: Proudsista
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism all man made. All religions are anti woman which is the reason for why woman practically have no say so and if she does have a say so, she gets no credit for it.
Religions, all anti sexism. Anti Sexism is a hypocrasy on behalf of the Christian Greeks who practiced Homosexuality and Pedophilia as a rights of passage. They knew that what they were practicing was un-natural, against nature...Nature in disguise(God). They couldn't help being who they were so... They tried to use religion to cover up what they infact enjoy, Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Their women at this time could only be seen and not heard. If the woman went against what her white counterpart tried to preach (His hypocrasy) she would be labled as a whitch and it would be said that she was going against doctrine (The Bible). She then would be burned at the stake. This is what we refer to when we hear about the
"Whitch burnings".
Muslims, same thing. They do not want the woman to enjoy sex so they cut off her genitils. The woman in all religions are reveared as a weakness for man so she must be controlled. The woman must also wear a Burka or veil to cover her body and face. This will prevent her from, (for a lack of a better word) "Asking For It"
Judaism and Hinduism same instances... The inbalance between male and female is severe for this planet.
Spirituality what we now refer to as religion all started in Egypt as spiritual myth influenced by the sky, in other words (Astrology). If you check you will see that through out the melleniums there are several deity's that represent in astrological terms (Virgo)who became Auset who then became Isis, who then became Mary, Queen Bee and a host of other names. There are many deity's that predate Jesus, in astrological terms the (Sun). The Sun it self represented as the Lion. In Egypt, Hermaket, now called the Sphinx is symbolic to man manifest the Sun who is God...The Sun, where God resides. Think about it, the sun does not need any elements to survive but elements need the Sun. The Sun can give life but at the same time it can take away life, if it is not present. Here you have an example of Science and Religion combined for you can not really have one without the other because who ever God is, whatever God is it created all including the Solar Sytem, for which we humans reside under.
Back to myths in Egypt...As these myths spread through out the world people particularly men began to extract what could benefit them in there new world order approaches.
Some of these men had good intensions and some of them had bad intensions. It is safe to say that the white man had a bad intension because he is the only one who went around the world in the name of God... Killing, Raping, Stealing Indoctrinating, Colonizing and many other un natural things...All in the name of God. The white man is the opposite of black. In order to have black skin or colored skin one must posses something called melonin. By Nature white people do not have melonin, the only way they can get it externally and temporarly is to go into a tanning bar which is artificial because even then they are more so orange than they are brown. The only other way to get the melonin is to race mix which the white man and the white woman are completly aware on a conscious level or a subconscious level. One must have the melonin in order to sustain the Sun. If one does not have the melonin to sustain the Sun one will literally die from the sun by contracting cancer of the skin.
Although people of color are called the minority's that was another lie told by the whites. In fact they are the minority because there are more colored people on this planet than there are people of no color which is white. If this is the case, they are the extreme opposite, opposed. Opposed to what? One might ask...Opposed to nature is the answer...Think about it, Think about it...
Subconciously people of color feel sorry for white people. People of color allow white people to be the shepherd while people of color intern become the sheep. This is why the white man is ruling. White people want to have that melonin, this is why every where one goes on this planet one is bound to see a heard of white people in the midst of color. There are more whites in Africa than their are Asians, Hispanics or any other people of color. There are far more whites in Asia than there are Africans, Hispanics or any other people of color. Whites want to have melonin in their body's this is why they are more so open to race mixing than any other race people. Before they use to try and force their seeds into women of color now they con their seeds into the women of color. All of this is tied into Religion, the reason for the confusion. It is all about the Melonin which gives you soul, which gives you spirituality which puts you intouch with nature. If one is not natural one is infact un-natural... Against "It"...Against "what"... Against Science...Against whatever it may be (God or the Goddes or both combined) In disguise Nature... Whatever ones choice is.
The white man has people of color feeling so sorry for him and his counterpart that people of color have basically like Jesus sacrafice their self inorder to save the wite race. Why is it that When any woman of color is not succesful with her counterpart she runs out to take up with the white man, this goes vice versa for the man of color. People of color have been indoctrinated to hate their self...Self hatred. While hating their self they love their master, the white man. People of color will do what it takes to save the white man and his counterparts life. They freely race mix which is not really freely because this self sacraficing way of thinking has been manipulated by the white man his self.
White people have looked around and has seen that they are the only ones who look different and like little children they have struggled and fought with their parents to finally have their way.
He is over in Iraq doing this as we speak and he has caused other wars to break out for which he has also manipulated.
People of color need to wake up, we need to demand that if the white man wants to become a part of us, he just needs to admit that that is how he and his counterpart feels. He needs to stop hiding behind his made up religion manipulating everyone into loving him. True love is not manipulted. True love takes it's natural course. But, then again they are against nature...
We people of color don't have a chance do we?
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