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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 796
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 07:35 pm: | 
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Defense in Duke rape case points to photos
Attorney: Images to show dancer was hurt when she got to lacrosse party
Updated: 8:29 a.m. ET April 10, 2006
DURHAM, N.C. - Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and “very impaired” when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University’s men’s lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.
Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.
“This young lady was substantially impaired. She had fallen several times during the course of the evening,” Thomas said.
He declined to identify the player he represents and said he would not release the photos, taken by at least two cameras, until pending DNA tests are completed.
He also wouldn’t say whether the photos were taken by a lacrosse team member or someone else; court documents have indicated that only team members were present at the party.
Disquieting allegations
No one has been charged in the case, but the allegations that members of the nearly all-white team raped the woman, a black student at a nearby university, have rocked both Duke and Durham.
The allegations have led to the resignation of coach Mike Pressler, the cancellation of the lacrosse season and the suspension of one player from school.
Several dozen people gathered Sunday outside the house where the party took place, and pledged to return each Sunday until the case is resolved.
“Whether I want to believe it, or whether you want to believe it, something took place in there,” said Johnny Williamson, 36, of Durham. “Something indecent took place.”
District Attorney Mike Nifong, who was expected to return this week from an out-of-town conference and has not commented on the case in the past several days, has said previously he is confident a rape occurred. Court documents said a medical exam of the alleged victim found injuries consistent with sexual assault.
The victim has not returned repeated messages seeking comment, but her father said Sunday she hasn’t changed her story.
“I expect them to say that,” he said of the lawyers’ contentions his daughter is lying.
‘Major grin’ alleged
The woman and the other dancer arrived separately, Thomas said, and performed briefly before leaving. The victim told police she and the other dancer left because they feared for their safety, but were later convinced to come back inside.
Thomas said the photos contradict the alleged victim’s assertion she was scared, as they show her standing at the door of the off-campus house with “a major grin on her face” as she tried to get back inside.
“People inside the house have stated she was banging on the door, attempting to regain entry,” Thomas said.
The woman told police she was pulled into a bathroom and assaulted after coming back into the house. But Thomas said the woman locked herself in the bathroom, where police later found her purse, cell phone, and several artificial fingernails she claimed to have lost during a struggle with her attackers.
Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape.
“All of these statements you’ve heard ... about this brutal assault, rape, kidnapping and robbery which occurred, I believe that the public will soon be able to learn the truth, and that these allegations are totally false and without merit,” Thomas said.
DNA tests forthcoming
Both the team’s captains and attorneys for team members have said the DNA tests, which may be completed this week, will prove the allegation are false. The players’ attorneys also have raised other questions about the allegations, saying e-mails written in the hours after the alleged attack will help prove the players’ claims that nothing happened that night.
Attorneys also have raised suspicions about a 911 call, made shortly after the alleged attack would have occurred, from a black woman who claimed someone at the party shouted racial slurs at her and a friend. The caller alternatively told police the pair were driving and walking past the house. Thomas said Sunday he and other attorneys believe the second dancer at the party made the call.
“These young men have been absolutely vilified in the press,” Thomas said. “I think this week we will go a long ways toward clearing these young men’s names. I can assure you that this has been a nightmare for each and every one of them.”
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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I hope the prosecution's got one more trick up their sleeve. [*gulps*]
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Va_sis
Regular Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 07:42 pm: |
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Can someone tell me how you can identify nail polish from blood in a picture? |
Howard_roark
Newbie Poster
Username: Howard_roark
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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Here she is
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 800
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 09:24 am: |
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Thanks Howard, I couldn't find that picture!
I smell a rat, here's why:
I'm only guessing here but...Don't strippers usually GET DRESSED before leaving a client's house? Not stumble down the steps with one shoe as if she's trying to escape?
If she was WORKING why would she get drunk on the job? Even pole strippers don't drink on the job.
Who took that picture of her?
Who photographs a stripper LEAVING?
If they have photos of the woman leaving doesn't that mean they have photos of her DURING the party as well? If those photos exist, WHERE ARE THEY?
If the e-mail with a player's threat to go confess to the police was quick to be considered fake, why is everyone quick to consider this photo genuine?
They can fake clocks on a photo, not to mention the photos themselves. Heck, just like the news suggested that the e-mail confessioner may not have really been on of the accused, the girl on the picture may not really be the accuser.
This is all I have so far. If I can think of more suspicions I'll post again.
IMO she looks no different than any other woman who's been gang raped and is trying to get out of there as fast as possible. Screw the shoes or anything else she left in there! Would a woman risk being attacked again just to retrieve a few measily material items? Especially when the most valuable items she's thinking in that "fight or flight" moment is "me and my children", not some stupid shoes?
All I got to say. -_-'
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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Those men drugged her.
That's what her Cousin Jackie said on television. And the other woman stripper has said the same thing---she came in perfectly alert and left there drugged up and battered.
As most of the men on this site are basically trying to say that she "deserved" whatever happened, simply because she's a "whore" in their opinion (and was dancing for white men)------I support her no matter what.
I believe that she was raped.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2084
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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Kola:
The men on here are not saying that.
At least I ain't.
But let us face facts. She went in a house full of drunken white boys accompanied only by another woman. Now we hear all this about how black men lose their minds and common sense around white women--
It seems like nobody tells these young blacks anything. It is not okay to accept a ride with two drunken white sh*tkickers in a pickup truck. You get dead that way.
She didn't think it might be a bad idea to dance for a house full of drunken white boys? With the history of this country? With knowing how white men have and still view black women?
Who hired her for this party? Did the boys ask for a black girl? Or did she make this connection herself?
This woman was not on her way home and abducted off the street. She went into this situation a situation that she might not have gone into if all those boys had been black.
Everybody should know how southern white men have viewed black women--taking them is their right--look at Strom Thurmond.
These days when somebody wrongs a woman it is seen as horrible to point out where she was being stupid. If I walk down the street drunk with dollar bills hanging out my pocket who is not going to point out that I was asking for it if I got robbed.
Some of what comes out of this in the future is that we prevent other women from getting raped. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 04:10 pm: |
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Lie down with strippers, wake up with pleas
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Posted: April 19, 2006
6:30 p.m. Eastern
By Ann Coulter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2006 Ann Coulter
However the Duke lacrosse rape case turns out, one lesson that absolutely will not be learned is this: You can severely reduce your chances of having a false accusation of rape leveled against you if you don't hire strange women to come to your house and take their clothes off for money.
Also, you can severely reduce your chances of being raped if you do not go to strange men's houses and take your clothes off for money. (Does anyone else detect a common thread here?)
And if you are a girl in Aruba or New York City, among the best ways to avoid being the victim of a horrible crime is to not get drunk in public or go off in a car with men you just met. While we're on the subject of things every 5-year-old should know, I also recommend against dousing yourself in gasoline and striking a match.
Everyone makes mistakes, especially young people, but the outpouring of support for the victims and their families is obscuring what ought to be a flashing neon warning for potential future victims.
Whenever a gun is used in a crime, there are never-ending news stories about how dangerous guns are. But these girls go out alone, late at night, drunk off their butts, and there's nary a peep about the dangers of drunk women on their own in public. It's their "right."
Yes, of course no one "deserves" to die for a mistake. Or to be raped or falsely accused of rape for a mistake. I have always been unabashedly anti-murder, anti-rape and anti-false accusation – and I don't care who knows about it!
But these statements would roll off the tongue more easily in a world that so much as tacitly acknowledged that all these messy turns of fate followed behavior that your mother could have told you was tacky.
Not very long ago, all the precursor behavior in these cases would have been recognized as vulgar – whether or not anyone ended up dead, raped or falsely accused of rape. But in a nation of people in constant terror of being perceived as "judgmental," I'm not sure most people do recognize that anymore.
It shouldn't be necessary to point out that girls shouldn't be bar-hopping alone or taking their clothes off in front of strangers, and that young men shouldn't be hiring strippers. But we live in a world of Bill Clinton, Paris Hilton, Howard Stern, Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman," Democratic fund-raisers at the Playboy Mansion and tax deductions for entertaining clients at strip clubs.
This is an age in which the expression "girls gone wild" is becoming a redundancy. So even as the bodies pile up, I don't think the message about integrity is getting through.
The liberal charge of "hypocrisy" has so permeated the public consciousness that no one is willing to condemn any behavior anymore, no matter how seedy. The unstated rule is: If you've done it, you can't ever criticize it – a standard that would seem to repudiate the good works of the Rev. Franklin Graham, Malcolm X, Whittaker Chambers and St. Paul, among others.
Every woman who has had an abortion feels compelled to defend abortion for all women; every man who's ever been at a party with strippers thinks he has to defend all men who watch strippers; and every Democrat who voted for Bill Clinton feels the need to defend duplicity, adultery, lying about adultery, sexual harassment, rape, perjury, obstruction of justice, kicking the can of global Islamo-fascism down the road for eight years and so on.
This is crazy. (I can say that because I've never been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder. Although I did test positive for "Olympic fever" once.)
In no area except morality would a sane person believe he can't criticize something stupid because he's done it. How about: If you've ever forgotten to fill up your car and run out of gas, you must forevermore defend a person's right to ignore the gas gauge. Or if you've ever forgotten to wear a coat in cold weather and caught a cold, henceforth you are obliged to encourage others not to dress appropriately in the winter.
This deep-seated societal fear of being accused of "hypocrisy" applies only to behavior touching on morals.
But we're all rotten sinners, incapable of redemption on our own. The liberal answer to sin is to say: I can never pay this back, so my argument will be I didn't do anything wrong.
The religion of peace's answer is: I've just beheaded an innocent man – I'm off to meet Allah!
I don't know what the Jewish answer is, but I'm sure it's something other than, "therefore, what I did is no longer bad behavior" – or the Talmud could be a lot shorter.
The Christian answer is: I can never pay this back, but luckily that Christ fellow has already paid my debt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ann Coulter, well-known for her TV appearances as a political analyst, is an attorney and author. Want to know what she is really like? Check out these hot products!
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Shyfox
Regular Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 50
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 04:40 pm: |
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Why would her employer let her go out on a job when she was so bruised up knowing what a major turn off that would be? I don't think that they would. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 803
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
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Oh chris, don't use that loudmouth Coulter as an example.
Half of that article is written out of her ass. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 388
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 06:43 pm: |
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Why would her employer let her go out on a job when she was so bruised up knowing what a major turn off that would be? I don't think that they would.
Because he was operating an escort service and he is a pimp. Pimps send their hos out to turn tricks regardless of whether they have bruises, whether they are menstruating or whatever else. Pimps just want to get paid. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
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"Because he was operating an escort service and he is a pimp. Pimps send their hos out to turn tricks regardless of whether they have bruises, whether they are menstruating or whatever else. Pimps just want to get paid."
So I guess that this escort service does not get a lot of return customers. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 389
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:18 pm: |
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You can guess anything you like, but in the real world (not your trip world reality) pimps send their hos out any which way they can. And in case you didn't know it, there are enough tricks/johns/marks in the world that a ho doesn't need repeat business. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 292
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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I don't know why people even pay any attention to photographs anymore.I put together a picture of my wife chasing a dinosaur (parasaurolophus) down the beach in Galveston once and it was perfect.And I'm not very good at that sort of thing.Some bright boys from Duke could have put a genie in that picture if they wanted to.A time stamp fix would be nothing to them. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 55
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
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You can guess anything you like, but in the real world (not your trip world reality) pimps send their hos out any which way they can. And in case you didn't know it, there are enough tricks/johns/marks in the world that a ho doesn't need repeat business."
Are you speaking from experience? |
Va_sis
Regular Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 48
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
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I know people that run escort services, and I know girls that work for them. For the record, not all escort girls turn tricks. And honestly, if a girl gets a request from a man for sex and she's not a prostitute, she'll refer him to another girl in the service that is.
The escort service has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. So they can operate with impunity, so to speak.
Other points:
1. A lot of people asked why she went to this drunken white boy frat party. This girl could have very well fallen into the services trap when she was hired. Services will claim that there are bodyguards nearby your call site in case of emergencies. And these girls believe it.
2. Okay, a possible answer to the question about hiring a bruised stripper(though your question was probably rhetorical). People that run the service don't see the girls until AFTER ALL parties are done. They see them long enough to get the "drop" (their share of the money), and they leave. They have no idea what condition the girls are in, and they don't care either.
3. ROXIE IS RIGHT!!!!!!! Dancers ALWAYS get dressed before they leave the client's house. SOMETHING IS FISHY THERE! No dancer ever, ever, ever, ever will leave a party still dressed in their costume. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 60
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:18 pm: |
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"They have no idea what condition the girls are in, and they don't care either."
Don't the customers care?
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Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 61
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:20 pm: |
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ROXIE IS RIGHT!!!!!!! Dancers ALWAYS get dressed before they leave the client's house. SOMETHING IS FISHY THERE! No dancer ever, ever, ever, ever will leave a party still dressed in their costume.
Not unless they had to make a quick get away for some reason. What was she wearing when she arrived at the hospital or better yet when the cop found her? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 392
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:32 pm: |
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Am I speaking from experience? You can't tell? How old are you anyway - twelve? Because I was under the impression that this was an adult conversation. |
Va_sis
Regular Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 49
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:34 pm: |
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"Don't the customers care?"
Yes, the customers care and they will complain...unless they are the ones that put the bruises there.
"Not unless they had to make a quick get away for some reason"
That's exactly Roxie's & my point. You can bet that she was fully clothed when she arrived. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:38 pm: |
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For the record - if the person works for an escort service and they go to ppl's hotel rooms and homes, they are prostitutes. Do you really believe that someone working for a service would go to a client's private residence and not exchange sexual favors for cash? If so, someone has pulled the wool over your eyes. And no, they are not a masseuse either, that's another lie somebody told you. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 394
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:39 pm: |
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"Don't the customers care?"
Why should the customer care, he's going to have sex. Did having a bruise ever stop you from having sex? Duh!!!
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Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:55 pm: |
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"Why should the customer care, he's going to have sex. Did having a bruise ever stop you from having sex? Duh!!!"
Classy. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 395
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:59 pm: |
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You're looking for classy? Then grow up and act like you can draw your own conclusions. Having a bruise hasn't stopped anyone from having sex!!!
Has a bruise ever stopped anyone here from having sex? Anybody? |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 64
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 03:59 pm: |
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"That's exactly Roxie's & my point. You can bet that she was fully clothed when she arrived."
I'm glad that you and Roxie can see past the spin. the defense is not really helping these guys when they release details like this. |
Va_sis
Regular Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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Mzuri,
having been a dancer & having friends that still dance I can say with conviction: NOT ALL ESCORTS TURN TRICKS. I know of SEVERAL girls that don't, just like I know SEVERAL girls that do.
Nobody's lied to me.
The only thing that dancers lie to each other about is the amount of money they make, for real.
Customers that hire dancers for entertainment care about the dancer's appearance and grooming. But you are right about the one's that hire tricks...they don't care what she looks like. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 65
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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"You're looking for classy? Then grow up and act like you can draw your own conclusions. Having a bruise hasn't stopped anyone from having sex!!!
Has a bruise ever stopped anyone here from having sex? Anybody?"
Why do you assume that these women went there to have sex?
As far as drawing conclusions go, I like to draw them based upon facts; not innuendo and preconceived notions. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 396
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:07 pm: |
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I'm not assuming anything, but she sure as hell wasn't there for benevolence. You think? |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 66
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:12 pm: |
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"I'm not assuming anything, but she sure as hell wasn't there for benevolence. You think?"
She went there to dance. For which she was to be paid. This is what the media is saying.
Whether she would have consented to sex with any of these guys is purely speculation. I don't know what was in her mind when she went there. Unless you are a mind reader, you don't either. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 397
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Again, she wasn't there for benevolence. She went there to dance, catch a trick, give somebody a hand job, a blow job or whatever after the white boys called for her at the ESCORT service. You don't need to be a mind reader to figure that one out - it's obvious that she went there to get paid since that's what hos do. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 398
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:23 pm: |
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Anyway, you ladies carry on. I've got a dinner date this evening and it's time for me to take my bubble bath. I just stopped by to hang out for a minute. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 67
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 04:24 pm: |
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Again, she wasn't there for benevolence. She went there to dance, catch a trick, give somebody a hand job, a blow job or whatever after the white boys called for her at the ESCORT service. You don't need to be a mind reader to figure that one out - it's obvious that she went there to get paid since that's what hos do."
Pure speculation. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 807
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:16 pm: |
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I'm back.
Okay, about that bruise.....
The only visible in that photo is on her upper arm. And that bruise looks as real as the blur on her face.
Also:
Yeah, we know men are turned off by bruises, but it won't stop them from assaulting a woman. It doesn't take lust to assault a woman. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 808
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:30 pm: |
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Double OH NO,
Now they brought out this Kim Roberts girl:
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2nd Duke Stripper Didn't See Alleged Rape
AP - Fri Apr 21, 8:47 AM ET
DURHAM, N.C. - At first, a stripper who performed at a Duke University lacrosse team party doubted the story of a colleague who told police she was dragged into a bathroom and raped. Now, Kim Roberts isn't so sure. "I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred -- and I never will," Roberts told The Associated Press on Thursday in her first on-the-record interview. But after watching defense attorneys release photos of the accuser, and upset by the leaking of both dancers' criminal pasts, she said she has to "wonder about their character."
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The Photo:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060421/480/ncgb10204210846;_ylt=Am_ezKIe1hRxXQ9ACeSyuaXe.6Uv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
The story:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/Sports/Duke_Lacrosse_Scandal |
Aglae
Newbie Poster
Username: Aglae
Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:37 pm: |
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AP Exclusive: Second Stripper at Lacrosse Party
http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=2&pmmsid=1635979 |
Aglae
Newbie Poster
Username: Aglae
Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 07:40 pm: |
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Just because she was 'acting drunk' doesn't mean she was. They may have drugged her. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 68
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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"Yeah, we know men are turned off by bruises, but it won't stop them from assaulting a woman. It doesn't take lust to assault a woman."
I don't think that she was bruised up when she went to the party. It's not that men would be turned off by the bruises that I was getting at; It's that this woman, whose fortune depends on looking a certain way, probably would not have gone out looking anything but her best. However, I could be wrong. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2095
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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I don't think there is anything that a woman can do to deserve being raped--
Then again I don't give big drunken stag parties and pay scantily clad women to come dance at them--why? I ain't a prude. Because this kind of stuff happens.
The last batchelor party I was at I'm standing around guys are starting to get drunk and act crazy, talking about "the girls" were on the way. You could just feel something in the air rising.
I left early. Why? I ain't no prude, but if a gangbang goes down (which it didn't) you got a case if you are standing in there--to say nothing about what might go down if you are drunk. I am human. I been in situations that everybody shrugged at later on that would be looked at as a rape--today.
All that said to say this. There was not so long ago a time in this country when I believe most people, black and white, thought that if a black woman went to dance for a bunch of drunken white boys the understanding would have been that she was going to give it up to everybody in the party if they wanted it.
I think there are still enough people in this country that think that way that doing this is not very smart.
I notice, too, that some people who are so quick to jump to this woman's defense have never posted on here about some black woman getting good grades in school, or getting a good job, or working their way through without "dancing".
I haven't seen here anywhere about a woman getting raped on a date, or coming home late from work, or by her pastor.
What I have seen is all sorts of defenses made for behavior that was at least unwise. Come on. Nobody dances to "survive". They dance because they want BIG money. They do it because they want diamonds a big car, not a compact, they want to make MORE money, as Tonya said than you make at Mickey D's.
Ask yourself how many women executives, heads of colleges, professors, business people will say they were exotic dancers for any period of time.
I have a relative who is a single mother of two. (By the way she did not WANT a husband--yes this happens. She just wanted kids) She worked two jobs and all without this. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 71
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Regardless of profession, no woman or man deserves to be hurt. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4536
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 01:47 am: |
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Chris,
I greatly detest this valiant working mother spin that's been put on this thing. As if most poor Black women who attend college MUST show their naiked a$$e$ to drunken White men to score some sheepskin.
I find the inference of such to be quite UNSEEMLY, and, ironically, self-condemnatory of those who would appear to rationalize such. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 299
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
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I don't remember saying anything about how most poor black ladies strip their way through college.I've never conducted any surveys, but I suspect that white strippers outnumber the black ones by a pretty substantial margin.I do know that it set me back nearly 100k to get my daughter through college from start to finish.That might be chump change for someone like Bill Gates, but for most folks, myself included, that's a pretty hefty sum to have to cough up over and above living expenses.I don't think that she could have done it all by herself.Especially not if she was saddled with a couple of kids.Most of the posters here that have a degree probably got it back when it was possible for a person to tighten their belt and work their own way through college.Those days are long gone.Nobody has appointed me as High Sherrif of the Morality Cops.If that was the best that this girl could come up with under her set of circumstances, my only problem with it would be the way that she has to place herself in harm's way on a regular basis. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 813
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 01:58 pm: |
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I know what you're talking about Rustang. I remember hearing a story on HBO SPORTS about a white girl who was forced by her religious coach to choose between her position on the Lacrosse team and her job as a pole stripper. I don't think they explained why she had to work there, but they did make the coach out to look like the bad guy. So there's your double standard. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 09:10 am: |
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"I greatly detest this valiant working mother spin that's been put on this thing."
The reality is, just because she CHOSE to remedy her financial situation by stripping does not make her unworthy of.......ANYTHING.
"As if most poor Black women who attend college MUST show their naiked a$$e$ to drunken White men to score some sheepskin."
There is no "poor student = must strip" life equation in existence!
"I find the inference of such to be quite UNSEEMLY, and, ironically, self-condemnatory of those who would appear to rationalize such."
I can't rationalize a thing, because I'm not the head of that girl's household. All I've ever said was she should NOT be judged for stripping and making a bad decision to work a party full of drunk white boys.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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she should NOT be judged for stripping
To suggest that a person not be judged based upon their chosen career field is preposterous. Our jobs are an essential part of us and our reputations. One of the first questions that ppl ask of each other when they first meet is what type of work they do. Our jobs identify who we are. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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You said "job" and "chosen career field".
A huge majority of girls strip only to get through a tough time...they don't make it their "chosen career field". That's why they should not be judged.
Very few strippers do so for more than 3 or 4 years.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 412
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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What a person chooses to do for any period of their life defines them. We are judged based upon what we do for a living, even the things we do to put ourselves thru school. Why don't you stop making excuses - because your excuses are lame! |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 57
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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"What a person chooses to do for any period of their life defines them. We are judged based upon what we do for a living, even the things we do to put ourselves thru school."
What you are, in effect, saying is that a person who decides to remedy a hiccup in life by doing something like strip temporarily DEFINES WHO THEY ARE? Their personality, their worthiness? Son on & so forth?
That EVERY girl that stripped while in school but stopped after graduation, is defined by her 4 months to 3 years of ill-repute forever?
You no longer see Jay-Z as the "weight pusher"; you see him as the President of Def Jam, philanthropist, multi-millionaire. But a girl that stripped while in college will forever be a stipper, regardless of how she eventually improved her life & career.
Naw, that can't be what you're saying.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4546
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:34 pm: |
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Rustang,
Are you arguing that poor Black women must strip to finance their college education? If so, I wholly disagree.
Yes. They'll probably have to work longer hours for such and they'll probably have to go without certain things. There are a myriad of ways foks can finance their college educations that don't require their showing their bodies to lustful men.
Va_sis,
One can do whatever one chooses to finance one's education. And I'm free to think of it what I choose to.
So, all other things being equal, I will think better of a young lady who flipped burgers at McDonalds to finance her schooling than I would a sista who played tuck-a-buck for cash with strangers.
You're are free to assert otherwise. 'Cause, hey, as far as I know the First Amendment is still in effect. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4547
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:40 pm: |
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"What you are, in effect, saying is that a person who decides to remedy a hiccup in life by doing something like strip temporarily DEFINES WHO THEY ARE? Their personality, their worthiness?"
To a degree: YEP!
Now. This doesn't mean that I think a woman who has stripped should be FOREVER perceived first/foremost as a stripper. But if she is CURRENTLY stripping than she's due every negative connotation attributable to other strippers. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 60
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:52 pm: |
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"To a degree: YEP!"
To a degree, huh? Are we being cryptic on a Monday AFTERNOON?
Care to clarify?
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Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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"But if she is CURRENTLY stripping than she's due every negative connotation attributable to other strippers."
Or is that your case-closed arguement? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4554
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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Va_sis,
If a woman is CURRENTLY showing her naiked a$$ to strangers, she earning the criticism she getting.
I can't get any less "cryptic" than that. |
Shyfox
Veteran Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 75
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:42 pm: |
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I wonder what the men think of the guys that these women are stripping for? |
Shyfox
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Shyfox
Post Number: 76
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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that should be who these women are stripping for. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:59 pm: |
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How did I miss this?
"Ask yourself how many women executives, heads of colleges, professors, business people will say they were exotic dancers for any period of time."
Don't think for a second that they aren't out there. And those that were, will not openly admit to it.
When I danced, I met a middle school teacher and an entry-level manager at the local Department of Housing and Redevelopment.
I've been on the fast track in my Marketing/PR career, and using my talents to help launch a few grassroots organizations locally. I've just turned down a position as an Executive Director for a neighborhood revitalization organization.
I'd be foolish to go around telling everyone I have a round table with that I used to dance...because of the stigma that goes with it. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 63
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 02:00 pm: |
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Sorry, that above quote was from Chrishayden. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 03:47 pm: |
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Va sis:
And that proves my point. If it ain't something they are going to brag about then it is probably something they shouldn't have done in the first place and I don't believe for one minute that the choice is between stripping and starving to death--when you go to school you are not supposed to have any money, not live like somebody on Beverly Hills 90210 or something. But people want it all. Well you see now what comes of it.
I am re reading some of the poems written by Sapphire (Ramona Lofton) which are about time she did in the entertainment industry. "Dancing" She talks about how they had to get drunk and drugged up. Guys beating off in front of them. How they were hating these guys.
Then afterward they have that baggage to carry around.
Va sis, is it something you would want your daughter to do? Is it something you would want for all little girls? |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 04:42 pm: |
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C'mon, Chris...I've ALWAYS said that this is something that we don't want for our girls.
All I'm trying to point out in short is that there are two sides to every story and many girls strip for more reasons than wanting to live lavishly. Just because some danced to get out of financial bind and moved on doesn't make them worthless, or lazy, or whatever that crap was that people here were saying.
Regarding Sapphire's poem, yes, there are strippers that have to get drunk or high to get over the shyness of being nude in front of men. My first time, I shook like a leaf but I wanted to remain level headed and coherent and refused alcohol (I don't do drugs period)....two sides to every story. I met some men that weren't interested in just nude ass shaking, they wanted a show...movement, theatrics, poise- the fact that we were naked was secondary to them. AND I have met men that only wanted to see our pussies.
I'm certainly not trying to sway any one's opinion, just sharing my experiences and illustrating that gray areas exists even in stripping. We all know there are no absolutes in life, why is stripping any different? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2117
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 05:02 pm: |
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Va_sis:
By the way, should we have--you know-- a little AALBC stag party one time--seeing as how all of us here are fine, upstanding literary types and not grubby perverts and we would mostly request this for out of interest for the literary aspects of this and you know our interests are purely literary--
Do you still have any of them bumps and grinds laid away--somewhere, maybe?
For literary purposes, of course. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 305
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 05:37 pm: |
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To Abm. No. I'm not arguing that poor black women must strip their way through college.As I said, most strippers are white.What I am saying is that I can easily envision a set of circumstances under which a young lady wouldn't have a viable alternative to stripping and still come away with a degree.Many poor black girls that applied themselves in high school and got the grades are able to nickle n dime scholarship the education within reach.Five hundred here, a grand there,etc...but you take a girl for example that really worked hard, but, bless her heart, she just isn't all that bright.She's not a moron, she just isn't a genius either.Her grades were Cs and Bs in high school.Her scholarship options will be a bit more limited.Throw in a couple of really bad decisions made in the heat of the moment, resulting in a couple of kids.You can see where I'm going with this.Again, no, I'm not saying that stripping is the only way a poor black girl can get an education, but it's not my job to judge her harshly if that was the best she could come up with under the circumstances.At least she is going to college, instead of just giving up entirely, grimly accepting a life sentence of poverty, deprivation and imprisonment for herself and her offspring for generations to come.She is trying to make a move the best way she knows how.That's all I'm trying to say. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4556
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:27 pm: |
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Va_sis,
Thanks for copping to your past. And since you've been straight-up about your former table dancing career, I'll admit the lustful hypocrite in me can't help wondering how much cash it would take for you to come outtah retirement. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4557
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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Rusty,
I must admit.
You make a pretty good argument for why a sistah should consider showing her cQQchie 2 drunk, horny men she don't even know. |
Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 66
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 08:59 am: |
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Lol, Chris:
You're sarcasm is cute beyond words. While you're joking.....ah, nevermind.
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Va_sis
Veteran Poster
Username: Va_sis
Post Number: 67
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 09:03 am: |
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Abm:
I'm officially retired! BUT, You can catch me at our get togethers acting a fool and doing some of my old routines...fully clothed though. : P
But what you & Chris said leads to a good debate:
Professional, educated, literary freaks.
Oxymoron?
I say not! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4561
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 03:21 pm: |
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Va_sis,
Dayam!
Oh well. I still got Cable.
I don't get what kinda "good debate" we might have. But, for the purposes of accuracy, when referring to Chris you should drop the prefix of "Oxymoron". |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2337
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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People keep throwing up the phrase "dancing for a bunch of drunken White men," as if that's really what it's all about. What makes anyone think that if it were a bunch of drunken black men, the same wouldn't have happened or even worse? Let's not forget that black women are assaulted far more by black men; and at a rate that's far greater than women of other races endure from their counterparts. Should race play a part in this case? Yes. But you'd think that it would conjure up images of what went on in the past. And you'd expect that this would be enough to sour many opinions. I bet that if Jews had something happen to one of their women that was similar to what went on during their past, Jewish men wouldn't be acting like punk bitches. They'd at least try to get things done. But we're making it seem like it's her fault that she got raped, because she was working for white men. I actually feel what black women must have felt during slavery, reconstruction, and throughout. They had it rough.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2339
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 04:39 pm: |
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Chris,
if you think that
she should have been working
a better job or one that pays more than Mickey D's,
why don't black men start creating some...? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
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She didn't want no job. Face it.
There's already some out there. But where can you make $500 and tips a night? Being some sort of entertainer musician or comedian, maybe a famous chef
But then again everybody is not that talented or patient because it takes time to work your way up to that, right?
No way to make big money fast but doing something wrong, right?
But you gotta pay the price. That's what people don't wanna do. |
Rustang
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 312
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 06:16 pm: |
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Abm, I'm not really arguing for it or against it.All that I'm saying is that I can understand it and that I don't feel that rancorous animosity towards her that some seem to based on the choices she's made.Although, if a lady is going to do that, I would think that she would be well advised to stick to the club circuit, instead of private parties.At least in the club, there is a man with purpose and direction in his life.His sole reason for living is to shove his arm up your @ss and yank out your spine if you put your hands on one of those girls.At a private party the lady is on her own. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 2342
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 07:46 pm: |
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###No way to make big money fast
but doing something wrong, righ?###
Until we can provide enough
opportunities for them, we
cannot righteously expect them
to do what we feel is righteous.
At least that's what black men
say privately about controlling
drug dealers.
But the sine qua non with you guys
is that she shouldn't have been
working for white men therefore
it's her fault that she was raped....
This is out-and-out bullshit and
painfully reminiscent. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4350
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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As long as a person doesn't harm anyone else in the process of earning a living, then they shouldn't be subjected to moral judgments. However, when harm befalls them in the course of voluntarily working at a job that jeopardizes their well-being, then they must shoulder some of the blame. |
Msprissy
Regular Poster
Username: Msprissy
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
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Ann Coulter, well-known for her TV appearances as a political analyst. I've seen her and would never buy or read her books. She's a Bush-booster, a conservative Republican.
I don't understand the DNA test issue. Can Condoms hide DNA? I don't know.
As far as her being a stripper, there many women with a MBA paid for by dancing (and tricking) their way through college. Some are even famous or married to famous men. No, I'm not naming anyone.
I believe those little smart-asses had the whole thing planned. Where did the camera come from?
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