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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 104
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:54 pm: | 
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This is a very, very arguable theory that I'm pulling out of my ass. I think it would make a nice debate.
Interesting: as white women began to make concrete societal gains in the workplace and homeplace via the feminist movement, it seems as if the media representations of what was considered the ideal white women became more unattainable and punative: unnaturally thin figures; grooming perfection requiring large, continuous expenditures on makeup and clothing. To me, this represents a pushback: a means of ensuring that newly empowered white women were yet strangled by punative standards of beauty and acceptability.
Is there a similar correlation to be noted between the gains of the African American middle class and colorism? That as African Americans continue to empower ourselves, we are increasingly strangled by depictions of us intended to remind us that the only half-decent black is a more-white (or less African) black? I can see problems with my theory immediately, but wanted to see what others think about it. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 179
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 03:04 pm: |
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i think that's a good question. it's sort of like three in one though. |
Zuriburi
Veteran Poster
Username: Zuriburi
Post Number: 61
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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Colorism in the Black community started long before these gains that you speak about.
I think that colorism at its root (like most culturally imposed hierarchies) is based on the immature and fragile human ego.
It feels powerful to humans when we can feel special, even when that specialness is self fabricated and artificial. |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 112
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:06 pm: |
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Zuriburi, that's really true. The big problem with my theory is that colorism predated any black power movement in a way that the new unnatural demands on white women's appearance may not have predated the feminist movement.
I think it's bigger than the human ego, though. It started as an integral component of the black inferiority paradigm, which was itself created to justify chattel slavery and the gross economic depravity of the antebellum south. Funny though, as I write these words, I wonder how much has changed. Is colorism still not used to prop up a system by which blacks are convinced that we deserve to be treated worse economically than any other group? |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 113
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:08 pm: |
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i think that's a good question. it's sort of like three in one though.
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Zuriburi
Veteran Poster
Username: Zuriburi
Post Number: 62
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
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It started as an integral component of the black inferiority paradigm, which was itself created to justify chattel slavery and the gross economic depravity of the antebellum south
Actually, BW, and I learned this as a result of reading Kola Boof's books. Colorism was alive and well in Africa compliments of White Arabs, it was also in India brought there thousands of years ago by the Ayran invaders. In each case I would wager that yes, group benefit was attained via a visible marker of self preclaimed supremacy and thus entitlement. But the ego satiation that is attained on an individual level I think also served a purpose (perhaps feeding the desire amonst those to maintain their place) If it didn't then why was/is it so necessary for white people to remain white. I think they know the false sense of confidence (but confidence nontheless and vis versa for blacks) that their color encoded. This is something that in my opinion deserves study.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1911
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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Zuriburi:
Colorism in the Black community started long before these gains that you speak about.
Tonya:
Yeah but who did colorism start with. Did it not start with the black elite, freed black mulattoes?
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Zuriburi
Veteran Poster
Username: Zuriburi
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:53 pm: |
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I think that in the U.S. it started with the first biracial baby. How could it not have started then when immediately after we arrived on these shores we were being forced to learn how to hate owselves and love lightness. |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 118
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:53 pm: |
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I think Tonya's right, even though that doesn't negate what Zuriburi's saying (I do not have nearly enough knowledge of pre-colonial colorism in continental Africa).
But from what I've read, chattel slavery and its doctrine of black inferiority started the colorism in this country, and it is actively maintained both by whites and by us. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1912
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:54 pm: |
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Zuriburi:
Actually, BW, and I learned this as a result of reading Kola Boof's books. Colorism was alive and well in Africa compliments of White Arabs, it was also in India brought there thousands of years ago by the Ayran invaders.
Tonya:
Wouldn't that be racism since Africans don't have (nor have they ever) the one drop rule? |
Zuriburi
Veteran Poster
Username: Zuriburi
Post Number: 64
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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That's true Tonya. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1555
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:18 pm: |
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Colorism for Black Americans started on the fortess islands of WEST AFRICA....where the English and Dutch and Portuguese kept colonies of "Metis Sangare" (Mulatto mistresses and their mulatto offspring).
This went on in the late 1550's to the 1620's.
**See West Africa's Cape Verde Islands especially---which are majority CREOLE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde
Before Blacks ever arrived in America...the "Missionaries" began teaching the Blacks that the "rape babies" were SUPERIOR and were to be treated that way.
Mulatto women were NOT SLAVES on the fortress Islands.
SENEGAL had the most of these women and it's well documented. I will try to find a link. These women lived in giant homes and had slaves of their own. And they produced countless mulatto children, many of whom never became enslaved.
THE IRONY---Slave masters in the early 1660's used to try and give these Mulatto women as "gifts" to the African Kings...but back then, the African Kings would not accept women who weren't "pure black" as Wives or Queens.
Among Africans, only a "warrior" from the lower classes would sleep with a mulatto.
Only in the 1880's did African Kings begin to keep Mulatto concubines and appreciate their beauty.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1556
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:22 pm: |
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Tonya....we have "Colorism" in Africa.
Not just "racism".
Pure Africans of one shade are taught by Arabs to oppress Africans of darker color.
GOOD EXAMPLE: in Ethiopia...they will advertise: "MAID NEEDED---Black Women Need Not Apply"
What they mean by "black" is charcoal.
But chocolate to cinnamon brown will be hired.
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 120
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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Kola, the comment at 5:18 is so incredibly interesting. Have you considered writing an analytical, historical text? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1916
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:52 pm: |
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But didn't you say that in Africa if you're not a certain color you're not black, that in America you'd be considered black but in Afriaca that wouldn't be the case?
So my point was, if Arabs or some other nonblack person (someone who may otherwise be considered black in the U.S.) discriminate against the real blacks in Africa, it's racism.
But I get the Ethiopian example.
So the questions are now: have BLACKS been discriminating against BLACKS in Africa for much longer than they've been in this country? If so, how much? And how much more wide spread has it been? |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 121
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
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in Ethiopia...they will advertise: "MAID NEEDED---Black Women Need Not Apply"
What they mean by "black" is charcoal.
But chocolate to cinnamon brown will be hired.
Holy shit. I feel very ignorant. My knowledge of Ethiopians consists of my experience with one good, long-term Ethiopian friend who not only does not display colorism, but bemoans the colorism here. It sounds like from what you are saying, her family is more the exception to the rule, as her mom comments extensively on my good looks as a dark-skinned woman. Another friend though, a Tanzanian, constantly talks about her hatred of Arabs and I had just chalked it up to racism.
Again, you have got to write a historical text on the pre-colonial colorism of Africa and its Arab influence. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1917
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:58 pm: |
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Kola:
Colorism for Black Americans started on the fortess islands of WEST AFRICA....where the English and Dutch and Portuguese kept colonies of "Metis Sangare" (Mulatto mistresses and their mulatto offspring).
Tonya:
Mulattoes are not black in Africa, right?
So wouldn't that be racism or some other kind of ism?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:01 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom,
My novel "Flesh and the Devil" is a historical text--fictionalized.
Tonya
--Black people are black; there is no One Drop rule---but that has nothing to do with Color SCALES.
FOR INSTANCE: An Arab (non-black) will treat a chocolate person better than a charcoal. That is "colorism" stemming from racism.
have BLACKS been discriminating against BLACKS in Africa for much longer than they've been in this country?
Arabs invaded and enslaved East and North Africa 1,000 years ago, at which point they forced the slave language "Swahili" onto East Africans.
The words in Swahili that mean "black" or "dark"....ALSO MEAN "EVIL", "Snake" and "Slave".
COLORISM was a huge import at that time.
And the MISSIONARIES introduced Colorism in WEST AFRICA long before there was an Atlantic slave trade.
"Jesus Christ" (blonde, blue eyed) was the standard that SET colorism in West Africa before slavery.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:07 pm: |
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Mulattos are not Black in Africa.
They are "Half-Caste".
But it's still COLORISM, because they are also....
...NOT WHITE.
And the part of them that is being discriminated against is "BLACK".
The part elevating them is "WHITE".
All of the "Black" people are thereby judged by the standard set against the Mulatto.
A chocolate
is better than a chocolate FUDGE
who is better than a Charcoal.
COLORISM keeps the Mulatto from FULLY benefitting from Whiteness.
Look at how media sees Mariah Carey and Vin Diesel.
Then look at how they see Halle Berry (who in Africa, would not even be considered black).
BETTER EXAMPLE:
Singer/Actress CHER
faced discrimination
that never hampered Olivia Newton-John.
Which is why CHER says she was "driven" to be a bigger star---because she didn't fit the
She had to FIGHT to be in the movie "The Witches of Eastwick" and lost several other roles, because she wasn't ANGLO enough.
CHER is WHITE, but is darker than Mariah Carey, mind you.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1564
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:11 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom,
My autobiography is a historical text of Arab/African relations.
My father's Egyptian family and my mother's Nomadic family were perfect poles of the polarity.
All of this is detailed in my autobiography.
And you can't judge Ethiopia by just one or even 10 people.
You would see that sign in ADDIS ABABBA, where the Light Skinned Mixed ELITE rule.
But not in the towns of the outback, where the people are fudge/charcoal colored and nappyheaded.
And just like many American blacks---they deny that it exists.
Somalia is even worse.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1918
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:18 pm: |
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The definition for colorism, here and in africa, are two different things, then. But since our definitions for black (ie how we define blackness) are different, that's understandable.
Alot of what you're discribing is Arab on black oppression. (which eventually caused colorism among the true blacks). In America, it's always been members of the same group oppressing the others--which is why colorism is sometimes called intra-racism.... It involves members of the same group. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 770
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:21 pm: |
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Cher is actually (at least half if not full) Native American. You can really see it if you were to see pictures of her in her younger days. She had her eyes/eyelids lifted and she has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT nose.
(and some other work, but the eyes/nose are so apparent) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:22 pm: |
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I understand that in theory they are the same..
but the technical terms must differ, right. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1567
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:32 pm: |
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RENATA---we all know that Cher is Half Native American.
But she was ALLOWED by White America to be classified as "WHITE". Just as Mariah Carey would be allowed to if she didn't need to make money off "Hip Hop" black America, which demands STREET CREDIBILITY of some sort.
But then, still....as CHER has written in detail....she was not treated the same as the "LIGHTER" White women.
Just as SOPHIA LOREN complained that she was not given the treatment of a Marilyn Monroe or Jane Fonda.
She was "dark white".
COLORISM
________________
TONYA...you read "Don't Play In the Sun".
You don't remember the chapter about WHITE people's colorism against WHITES?
TONYA says:
Alot of what you're discribing is Arab on black oppression. (which eventually caused colorism among the true blacks).
Exactly. The Arabs INFORMED the Africans that the lightest were more human than the darkest.
I was taught that in Sudanese elementary school (let's call it) that ALLAH loves White people and has cursed black people....thus, the lighter you are, the more he forgives you.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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COLORISM dictates:
Slavik and Nordic WHITES are superior
...to Italian and Greek Whites.
Stop seeing it as only a BLACK thing, Tonya, then you'll see why the terms apply to Mulattoes.
White-skinned Arabs looked down on Olive-skinned Arabs.
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 316
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:03 pm: |
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GOOD EXAMPLE: in Ethiopia...they will advertise: "MAID NEEDED---Black Women Need Not Apply"
What they mean by "black" is charcoal.
But chocolate to cinnamon brown will be hired.
They actually say that in Ethipia! That is so sad. |
Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 317
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:08 pm: |
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So what you are saying is that Halle Berry would be considered Arab in Africa? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1573
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:09 pm: |
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GOOD EXAMPLE: in Ethiopia...they will advertise: "MAID NEEDED---Black Women Need Not Apply"
What they mean by "black" is charcoal.
But chocolate to cinnamon brown will be hired.
Serena:
They actually say that in Ethipia! That is so sad.
KOLA:
Hell, they have those signs in Egypt, Morocco, South Africa, Puerto Rico, Brazil.
SUDAN.
Not just Ethiopia.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1574
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:10 pm: |
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So what you are saying is that Halle Berry would be considered Arab in Africa?
Absolutely Not.
Halle would be considered "Half-Caste".
Half Black and Half White. Mulatto or "Coloured".
But not "Black".
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 124
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
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Stop seeing it as only a BLACK thing, Tonya, then you'll see why the terms apply to Mulattoes.
White-skinned Arabs looked down on Olive-skinned Arabs.
Well here in the United States, darker-skinned whites do not have an intra- and inter-racial experience that is in any way comparable to that of darker-skinned blacks. And the colorism in our community most certainly DID come from chattel slavery and its attendant theory of black inferiority. The fixation was on those characteristics which made certain blacks more resemble whites because we were taught that blacks were beasts and fully deserved the depravity visited upon us. This might be a global problem, particularly in those states which were part of the Atlantic slave trade like Puerto Rico and Brazil.
But talking about colorism in the US; we know without a doubt where that shit came from and why it was introduced. It is important to examine it from this vantage point, because African Americans are the leaders in the diaspora with respect to fighting for and attaining rights, and revolutionizing not only what it means to be black, but how to DEMAND and get the respect that is owed us. It is unparalleled. By your own writings and admissions, no where else in the diaspora did you find lighterskinned blacks like Angela Davis willing to stick their foot in somebody's ass to benefit the entire community/family. Even with the colorism infestation, we are more one here than elsewhere. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1575
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:50 pm: |
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Well here in the United States, darker-skinned whites do not have an intra- and inter-racial experience that is in any way comparable to that of darker-skinned blacks.
I'm not saying that it does.
What I'm pointing out is that these attitudes exist BEFORE they come into contact with Blacks.
As Toni Morrison said....Italians and Greeks were not considered "WHITE" until they came to America and whites needed larger numbers against the newly freed "Blacks".
A whole lot of IMMIGRANTS suddenly became "WHITE" and were taught to hate "niggers".
By your own writings and admissions, no where else in the diaspora did you find lighterskinned blacks like Angela Davis willing to stick their foot in somebody's ass to benefit the entire community/family. Even with the colorism infestation, we are more one here than elsewhere.
I disagree with you.
First of all...colorism is much "worse" here in the U.S. and in GREAT BRITAIN and BRAZIL....than in Africa, because in America....you are not allowed to define who is BLACK.
In Africa, you don't have to ever see or live with Mulattoes if you don't want to. So it's better---and most Africans--like in the CONGO or Ghana or Gambia--live their lives without ever coming into contact with Whites OR mulattos.
In Ethiopia, mulattos and blacks live in SEPARATE societies.
Therefore, black girls and mulatto girls do not compete for the same pool of men...as in America.
SUDAN is an invaded war torn area, which doesn't count--because they are forced by WAR to face these issues right now.
We are talking about AFRICA in general...and you could live in a place like "Nigeria" and barely notice the effects of colorism, because----the people are so black and everyone is black.
EXAMPLE: In Africa...there are no black women, of any color, who can't find husbands or be the Queen of their own community.
Even the Charcoal beauties (in most places) are sought after, fought for and have many many black men to choose from.
Only in the very UPPER CLASSES of African society do you find tangible colorism.
Lightskinned women activists like Angela Davis? NO
But let's be clear....
There are whole Women's Groups in KENYA and SENEGAL and NIGERIA and SOUTH AFRICA that are dedicated to fighting "Skin-bleaching" and "colorism".
In Kenya, the President went on national television and outlawed the sale of skin-bleaching products in that country....because of a single Black woman activist in Kenya.
This woman also ran for Vice President and nearly won.
I am another "AFRICAN" whose body of work is a virtual WAR against colorism, but I am American-raised...and I created by Black American women.
But it's my experience from AFRICA that gives me the passion.
In America, you simply aren't aware of the Black women activists of Africa (or the black men) and what they are doing to combat these problems---most at the risk of death.
There are many LOUD, very VOCAL African women who are fighting against White Supremacist Acculturation in Africa.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1576
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:57 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom:
It is important to examine it from this vantage point, because African Americans are the leaders in the diaspora with respect to fighting for and attaining rights, and revolutionizing not only what it means to be black, but how to DEMAND and get the respect that is owed us.
KOLA:
That's such a ridiculous comment and totally untrue.
You are only aware of your own country.
There are EQUALLY just as many activists (and more of them being killed) in other black nations as there are here.
Just because you're featured in a newspaper and they are not---doesn't change the fact that they exist.
They don't have MEDIA, but their achievements are very real.
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 129
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
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Kola, we are the leaders in the diaspora. Is that because of the disproportional impact of the country in which we are situated (a country we did more than our fucking share to elevate to prominence)? Most likely. But it's true all the same. We are revolutionary; we took on some of the most powerful elements in the world and made them give us part of our due. Don't diminish that.
I can see where my comments can be interpreted as disrespectful/dismissive of other black activists in other countries who receive less attention. That's not my intention at all, though. I truly see us as one family, scattered across the globe. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:09 pm: |
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Few people in Africa have ever heard of Angela Davis---but that doesn't mean she doesn't exist.
Africa has Alice Ndegwa and Winnie Mandela.
Please explain to me, Black_Wisdom, who these people are and what they've done or are doing...
Aron Thon Arok (Sudan)
Betty Sumo (Uganda)
Vashti DuBois (Ghana)
WOZA (Women of Zimbabwe Arise)
Alice Ndegwa (Kenya)
Mary Wambui (Kenya)
Nawal el Sadaawi (Egypt)
Specioze Wandira Kazibwe (Woman, Vice President of Uganda)
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:13 pm: |
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Point taken, because I don't know anything about any of those activists save Mandela. My point is impact, though. Are you saying that African American activism has not had a profound and disproportionate impact throughout the diaspora? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1578
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:22 pm: |
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Kola, we are the leaders in the diaspora. Is that because of the disproportional impact of the country in which we are situated (a country we did more than our fucking share to elevate to prominence)? Most likely.
But black people have done that EVERYWHERE--you are not unique.
In Great Britain, the African students dominate the University grade point average the same way Japanese do here in America.
HAITI freed itself from Slavery, and no matter how bad that nation has become---they remain the most DEFIANT former group of slaves in world history.
You did not free yourselves from slavery--sympathetic whites did.
But it's true all the same. We are revolutionary;
What black people aren't revolutionary?
Angolans with Dadu Dadu? Jamaicans with Bob Marley and Marcus Garvey?
South Africa with Steve Biko?
Sudan with John Garang?
Who?
we took on some of the most powerful elements in the world and made them give us part of our due. Don't diminish that.
How fucking dare you! I never tried to DIMINISH anything that Black Americans have accomplished.
If anything...I've documented it.
You really need to read the books I write, before you insult.
And you also need to stop expecting to be seen as some SPECIAL breed of black people. You're not.
What you are...is aware of your own experience and not that of others.
You sound the same as an African bigot talking down against Black Americans.
Ask the people on this board how I feel about Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Sojourner Truth, Toni Morrison, Randall Robinson and other idols of mines that I've praised?
Have you ever heard of this woman?
Do you have any idea what she has accomplished for Black Women in West Africa and Europe?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1579
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:26 pm: |
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Are you saying that African American activism has not had a profound and disproportionate impact throughout the diaspora?
No, that's more your line. I never thought of it as a "competition".
My work and comments have always been the opposite.
For instance---in poems and essays I've written about Malcolm X coming to Sudan, where he is called "Red Rooster".
What John Coltrane's music meant to Sudanese.
But your activism is not SPECIAL to me...anymore than Steve Biko's is.
It's all the same really.
Only in Africa---it's far more dangerous. Most end up dead.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1581
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:35 pm: |
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And let's not forget that skin bleaching among African teens is because of the HIP HOP Music Videos flooding Africa
...or the onslaught of the Michael Jackson Skin Lightening Pill.
"MEDIA" is what is all powerful, and Black Americans are the only blacks who have access to the media--therefore, they are the most copied.
Good or bad.
But I don't agree that any black people anywhere are the most "revolutionary/most fighting for human rights" than any other group.
You couldn't possibly come from the revolutions in Africa, as I do, and say such a silly thing.
To South Sudanese---I am Angela Davis.
To people in Uganda---Betty Sumo is Angela Davis.
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 133
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:45 pm: |
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That's true. I can't even argue with it. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1584
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:53 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom
You are one of my FAVORITE people on this board.
PLEASE, please know that I owe Black Americans my life...and that I love them.
To me...though they don't like me saying it...they are AFRICANS.
I am not disagreeing with what you're saying.
Just feel a little bit confused.
Please read my books...because Africans accuse me of worshipping Black Americans and never giving credit/shine to my own continent.
I just see our struggle like you do.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 986
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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I see that my post (and Kola's response) was deleted from this thread when the site "crashed". Interesting.
Nevertheless, Kola, I still maintain my position that you can't consider Robert Nesta Marely to be a "Black revolutionary" when you don't even consider him "Black".
It's hypocritical.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1648
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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Where did I give any "personal" opinion about Bob Marley?
I stated that to Jamaicans and the black Diaspora, he is a revolutionary.
Is that not a fact?
You're really being a twit, Moonsigns.
Nowhere have I mentioned my personal opinions about Bob Marley.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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And this is TROY's board. I have no power to erase/delete posts.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 987
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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Why include him, though--IF--you don't consider him black?
It is hypocritical.
And the stuff you wrote about him have only "one" wife, leaving his estate to her, and his son's loving "dark" women, is/was absoutely irrelevant.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1651
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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Moonsigns, I'm a historian.
Your question, to me, is ridiculous and petty.
There are WHITE revolutionaries (like Gloria Steinem) that are always included in my personal work--because they helped to make me who I am. Susan Sontag is feted in my autobiography, because she meant so much to me.
You really don't comprehend, because you're too WONDER BREAD mainstream.
You're not in my world.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1944
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 07:50 pm: |
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She doesn't comprehend because she's ALWAYS trying to "prove you wrong" instead of trying to understand.. which is the wrong thing to do when you're trying to prove someone wrong.... Think about it. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4037
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 09:22 pm: |
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Attention! All Whining Authentic Colorists of the Kola Organization. Also known as WACKO. Get out the Kleenex and approach the wailing wall. Mariah Carey has been presented an NAACP Image Award! Steady now. 911 has been called. And, of course everybody knows the NAACP is bogus. After all they also gave the TV show "Everybody loves Chris" an image award, and we all know how unauthentic this show is.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 988
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 08:18 am: |
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There is a huge difference between a logical individual who creates and applies positive soultions to remedy a serious social issue (or issues) and the erratic methodolgy a hypocrite uses to achieve their agenda. Which in this case is extremely distinguishable.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1949
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 08:34 am: |
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Prove it. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1670
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
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Moonsigns, you're such a stupid woman.
Fannie Lou Hammer was an illiterate sharecropper who talked cash shit, raised hell, rebelled and ultimately---changed the south.
Harriet Tubman forced slaves at gunpoint to escape to freedom. She was illiterate and willfull and fearless.
Nat Turner rose up a full fledged massacre against whites--slipping even the babies throats, God Bless His Courage.
And there are countless others who PROVE that not every person seeking change/revolution is necessarily logical, levelheaded or passive.
But being the white MISS ANNE bitch that you are--it's understandable that you prefer passive, non-confrontational LOGICAL niggerstock.
Notice how it's YOU....who determines what's logical.
Thus the malarkey you posted is TYPICAL self-serving Dirty White Bitch angst.
And in the words of Fannie Lou Hammer---"Fuck you, Miss Sally, and get the fuck out of my way before I stomp a mudd-hole in your racist ass."
For the life of me, I never understood where you sorry weak ass White women ever thought your opinions rated 5% with the Black women of this planet. You bitches are so high up on a pedestal, you don't even know shit about being a woman.
Your blues ain't like mines.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1957
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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God, I love you girl!!!! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1672
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 02:45 pm: |
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Tonya, I love you, too. And all my children (you're an American, so you can't understand)
That's why I'm willing to be so hated and lied on.
Because a change must come.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 989
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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Kola:
"Moonsigns.....you're such a stupid woman."
Moonsigns:
Yeah, Kola--I'm "such a stupid woman"-- because it is my opinion that there is a distinguishable difference between the methodolgy (and outcome) of an individual who creates and applies positive soultions to remedy a serious social issue compared to an erractic hypocrite who seeks only to promote and support their personal agenda.......LMAO! Please.
Kola:
"And there are countless others who PROVE that not every person seeking change/revolution is neccessarily logical, levelheaded, or passive."
Moonsigns:
Unfortunately, Kola, somewhere in your twisted thought pattern, you equate a "logical" and "leveheaded" nature as one that does not have the ability to revolutionalize society(ties). Which, if we look over the course of time, those who have mastered self-control and applied unconventional methods in a conventional world, are the ones who are remembered (and celebrated) the most. You admire violent "revolutionaries"--those whose thought patterns and behavior are most similiar to your own. I admire non-violent revolutionaries--those whose thought patterns and behavior are most similiar to my own. Thus the obvious and understandable difference in opinion.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1680
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:30 pm: |
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Moon,
get back in the yard and FINISH
playing catch with your husband.
What you think of ME
...is none of my business.
And it's YOU
QUEEN SALTINE
who keeps engaging me.
Not the other way around.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:33 pm: |
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I so get a kick out of insulting you, Bitch.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 990
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
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Kola:
"I so get a kick out of insulting you, Bitch."
Moonsigns:
You're the best damn circus clown aalbc has!!!! LMAO!
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1687
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:55 pm: |
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Nooooo
you got me beat
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