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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1868
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:37 am: | 
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Recently I had to change dentists because I noticed he was doing something a lot of black doctors in Philly do: he had all the lightskinned employees working up front, being seen and performing the less labored functions (except for an older darkskinned woman), then he had the darkskinned employees working in the back, out of view, and performing the more labored tasks (cleaning, filing, repair ect). This kind of behavior pisses me off; yet I want to support black businesses thus I decided to try my luck with another black dentist. I can’t say that I was too surprised when I found that all of the black dentists in my area had the same colorist arrangements. So I ended up going to a white dentist. My PC doctor is a black woman who doesn’t appear to be colorist in her hiring practices. Ditto for my dermatologist. But the list is shrinking more and more as I become increasingly sensitive to colorism. Now I find myself supporting more white businesses than I did 10 years ago. A lot more actually. Does anyone else have this problem? If so, what have you done? If not, what would you do?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1480
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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This was highlighted in the book "The Blacker the Berry" by Wallace Thurman. It's an age old practice in the black community....overwhelmingly carried out by Black MALE professionals and "high yellow" females (ie. the woman running BET, who is called "black" but is nearly white).
In California, all of the Black doctors I have went to over the years were Men (including 1 Nigerian)----and they all had White and Latina female employees--receptionist/assistant/cleaners/everything. Many Black men think it's a sign of success when they don't have to be in proximity to black people.
Because the Black community has never allowed these issues to be challenged (the white man is Satan, not us)---they just get worse and worse with each new generation.
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 247
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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Tonya, your response seems akin to pouring salt into an open wound. You now support white-owned businesses because black-owned aren't hiring to your satisfaction. Do you really think the black doctors actually dictate where persons perform the tasks they're trained for based on the color of their skin? Or could it just be the tasks they're trained for dictate where they perform their tasks? Could skills and training be the dictating factors of one's employment and not the shade of their complexion?
Are the white businesses employing a plethora of dark-skinned individuals who are standing front and center and putting lighter-skinned individuals in the back to now justify your support of them and non-support of black businesses? And why isn't it enough that black-owned businesses who hire and support black employees regardless of the degree of their light or dark complexions be worthy of your support?
At what point does one's sensitivity become irrational fodder justified by even more irrational behavior?
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1481
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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WHAT TO DO:
Write an intelligent, brief letter to the Doctor, complaining about this practice and indicating why you're not supporting him/her...and why you're telling others not to support him/her.
In fact, unless you can get others to write similar letters---do several letters on different stationery, one typed--one handwritten, different inks, paper stocks and envelopes....so that you have about 5 letters from different perspectives complaining about the same practice.
2 weeks after the letters, follow up with very POLITE phone calls (you must indicate that you would have wanted to spend your money on that doctor).
If only 1 in 10 of us did this (as I have done)--it would raise consciousness, and trust me--those doctors want #1--to make money...and #2--MOST "colorist" Black Professionals are not aware that they are colorist. They are like racists. Simply living by the Standard of their Society, their Education, their Parent's teachings. Black America itself is Profoundly Colorist, so they often aren't doing it on purpose. It's HABIT. They see themselves as "Martin Luther King"---making sure that every White and Latina mother has a job with insurance benefits (at least in California).
Don't forget how Edenson and Doberman recently championed the colorstruck structure at BET...but then will claim to be down for "black people". They're too stupid to see that they are against black people by supporting these structures that Disallow the darkest and PROMOTE the Superiority of the Lightest.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1482
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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Footnote:
I complained in a calm, polite manner to three Black doctors--two of them being my current eye doctor and my dentist.
....and they ALL three subsequently "created jobs" for Black Female office workers.
My eye doctor even created a "Black Teen" intern training program.
Their offices remained MOSTLY Non-black employee-wise, but they did add Black workers after I complained--politely and intelligently.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3984
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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My, my, weren't we lead to believe that colorism was being neutralized by the epidemic of "authenticity". Guess not. Business as usual |
Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 248
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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"do several letters on different stationery, one typed--one handwritten, different inks, paper stocks and envelopes....so that you have about 5 letters from different perspectives complaining about the same practice"
So one should "assume" alternate personalities to give credibility to their cause? And this in and of itself will accomplish what actually, particularly if a conscientious doctor decides to contact ALL of those personalities only to discover most of them don't exist.
The premise has promise but the mechanics of lying to make a point seems to be a tad flawed.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1483
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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Tonya:
This nation and the whole Kingdom of Whitness was built on a LIE.
It only takes one lie to unravel the whole world.
And it's not a lie. You're just being creative and giving VOICE to your different same perspectives.
Nothing works like sheer Nerve and....this is a case where the end justifies the means.
It is no different than making 5 friends stand with you on a Picket Line, when the reality is--only you believe in the issue being picketed.
All is fair in war.
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Babygirl
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Babygirl
Post Number: 249
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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As well, it only takes one LIE to unravel a worthy cause and then nothing gets built at all. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3986
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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What other advice could be expected from Kola Boof who is the consummate purveyor of creative deceptivness. "Duplicity" is the name of her game. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1485
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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Tonya--
remind me....to tell you about the time I looked into the heart
of an artichoke.
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Mzuri
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 01:05 pm: |
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Wow Tonya, that's crazy. I live in the world's largest international border metropolis, and unfortunately Black ppl are only about 3% of the population on the U.S. side. Even worse, there's not a whole lot of Black owned businesses around here. I was employed on the Army base here, and Blacks comprise a large percentage of the military, but I can't say I witnessed any of that going on in the military. Racism from whites, yes, but not colorism among the Black hierarchy. Since leaving the Dept of Army to pursue my own ventures, I travel and do business with other Blacks as much as possible, but I've never been exposed to the scenario you have described.
I think what I would have done in your position, and what I would do if I was a witness to it, is confront the HNIC and ask him/her about it. It's not too late for you to call them or write them a note and ask them about it. Maybe they have a valid reason (which I doubt) but it should make for an interesting conversation nonetheless. I'd say something like - "I am a former client of yours and was with you for X years, however I found it quite disturbing that you are blatantly practicing colorism at your firm. Is this true or am I imagining things?" and wait for their response. As a regular client, you bring great value to any business thru your own patronization and thru word-of-mouth advertising to your circle of ppl, and losing you costs them real money plus you being disgruntled is bad for their business - so they will most likely respond. I would wonder what they have to say for themselves.
Now, the similar scenario that I have witnessed in my hometown is thus. There is a Black scholarship pageant for young ladies between the age of 17 and 25 that is held every year during Black history month. The two ladies who operate the pageant are pillars of the Black community whom I've known since the beginning of time. Both of them are up in years (one's in her 60s and the other in her 70s) and I worked with them for several years recruiting girls, soliciting sponsors, assisting with rehearsals, coordinating judges, etc. They absolutely insisted that the judges be mostly caucasian or caucasian of hispanic ethnicity but we'd always have one token Black judge. So I gathered the judges, wrote their bio's, introduced them, etc. and tallied their score sheets to determine the winner on the night of the actual event.
Well, I guess you already know the outcome. The winner was always the lightest and brightest contestant. And I found it disturbing because it's supposed to be a scholarship pageant, not a beauty pageant (not that I feel beauty should be judged by complexion anyway), and the winner wasn't even the best qualified one. I mean they were all smart and pretty, but the winner just wasn't the best - only the lightest. After about six years of this I had to move on, because I didn't have any influence as far as changing the makeup of the judges or changing the old lady's minds, and so it still continues on the same way. It's sad to I think that ppl are so judgmental based solely upon our complexions  |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 737
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 06:16 pm: |
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Mzuri, would it be possible for you to get some people together to start your own kind of pageant? I know it's probably hard to do, but with your having experience in helping to organize them, it could be possible.
Those crafy old bitches.......LOL..they asked for non-black judges knowing they would choose those who looked most like themselves, and then they could "truthfully" say it isn't their fault only light skinned girls are chosen. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 738
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
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I think you should go back, Mzuri. Only because they have to die sometimes, and maybe you will then be in a position to continue the pageant and change that practice. |
Mzuri
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 84
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
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Hi Ms. Renata! You're a sweetie. During the time I was involved there, I would have loved to eventually take charge and run the pageant some time in the future. I'm definitely qualified to handle it. I was working full-time then and was helping out at the pageant on a voluntary basis to contribute to the community, for the experience, etc. But things have changed as I am now self-employed with a business to operate and I just don't have the time for extra-curricular activities. Plus after all that happened there, I pretty much lost interest in the whole thing. But that pageant has been going on here since 1952 and I'm sure someone else will come along to be the keeper of the flame. A former beauty queen or something  |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1871
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 07:23 pm: |
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Thanks for the advice guys. Some of it is going to be hard to do because the dentist, in particular, is someone I know well. I've been seeing him since I was a teen and he's been kind to me. Confronting him face to face would be very difficult. This guy was an older figure in my life who has been advising me and helping me with problems for a long time. I'm not sure if I wanna know the truth. I don't think I wanna see him as a colorist, so I'd rather not ask. If he gives me BS answers I'll know. The other people I don't mind confronting. My former family doctor, for example, will be the first on my list.
Babygirl:
Are the white businesses employing a plethora of dark-skinned individuals who are standing front and center and putting lighter-skinned individuals in the back to now justify your support of them and non-support of black businesses?
Tonya:
Actually Bg, I go to a large institution now, which has mostly minority entry level employees who seem to be positioned anonymously, as opposed to color. The only problem is, it's not owned by blacks. |
Mzuri
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 07:57 pm: |
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Ms. Tonya - If the dentist is your friend that's all the more reason for you to at least mention it to him. If the situation bothers you, then others have noticed it as well and he has lost other business. Perhaps he isn't even conscious that he's doing it, and if not maybe he thinks no one has taken notice. Maybe his income has gone down and he doesn't know why. Do what Kola suggested and send him different notes at different intervals, or send him an e-mail from a fictitious hotmail account, or call his office and leave a message about it. Or ask someone here to help you with it. You can do it in a nice way, it doesn't have to be confrontational. You'd probably be doing him a favor. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1873
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:55 pm: |
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Maybe you're right....
I have sent him an anonymous e-mail though, as well as the family doctor. But perhaps I'll send him another.. just to make sure he understands. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4360
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:51 pm: |
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Tonya,
If I were the dentist you are complaining about here, I would thank you for your prior business and fondly wish you (and your teeth) bon voyage. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1874
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:49 am: |
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I'm not surprised. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1877
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 03:39 am: |
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Abm,
let me ask you a question though.... If we were both white, the dentist and I, and he were discriminating against black folks (whites up front doing light labor, blacks in the back doing much harder labor), along with almost all of the other white dentists in town, would you feel the same way? And, yes, it's a major black city, majority black neighborhood (overwhelmingly), year 2005.
If the answer is "yes," then I'd be surprised. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4361
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 09:27 am: |
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Tonya,
1) How could I know via my 1 or 2 annual dentist visits whether what I'm seeing is representative how a business staff and assign jobs? What if (for some larger, external sociological reasons) the majority of those who apply for the low-labor gigs are White or lightskin Blacks and those who apply for the hard-labor gigs are darkskinned?
Unless I've fully examined the hiring practices of an employer, I can NOT no with any reasonable degree of certainty whether any form of bias is actually occuring.
I co-own a business that's staff almost entirely by lightskinned Black and Hispanic females. And my color of my staff is the product of who applied for the jobs, their qualifications and their willingness to fulfill their job requirements...NOT their skintone.
2) I am not aware of any law that requires a business to assign jobs via some fallaciously equitable melalin-based balance.
3) I'd be MUCH more concerned about the dentist, Black or White, not having ANY Black staff, regardless of the style of labor, than I would be about whether or not he's allegely utilizing some modern day paper bag test.
4) What if your unproven assumptions about what the Black dentist is doing causes such a ruckus that he loses or closes his practice? Would THAT be good for his light/darkskinned BLACK staff and light/darkskinned BLACK patients? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1878
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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Abm,
If it weren't a TREND throughout the city, I'd probably agree with some of your assessments. Not only are these hiring practices being carried out by black dentists, they're being done by black doctors across the board, throughout the entire city. I've even been told that they're being done in most law firms, black owned or not, throughout the city.
Also, Abm, if all of the major hospitals, universities, government owned agencies, and clinics didn't have an enormous display of darksinned blacks working their front desks, in low-labor positions, I'd probably agree that it's possible (though not likely) that darkskinned people do not apply for these positions. The frequency at which one sees darkskinned people performing these functions at all of the beforementioned locations.. says otherwise. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 77
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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I co-own a business that's staffed almost entirely by lightskinned Black and Hispanic females. And my color of my staff is the product of who applied for the jobs, their qualifications and their willingness to fulfill their job requirements...NOT their skintone.
Red flag. In my neck of the woods, I patronize many black owned businesses (restaurants, retail stores, etc.) and have actually never seen a business which was staffed by color. The fact that the colorism in your business' staffing might not be totally deliberate on your part doesn't negate the fact that there is something quite wrong with the manner in which you and your co-owner are evaluating job candidates. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 148
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
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I wished some colorism was shown for me during tax time ... i hate paying the irs! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3994
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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Is that putting things in perspective, or what? LOL. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1879
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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My question is what's the use of supporting black businesses if they're not supporting black people? Wasn't that the purpose of creating black businesses in the first place; so we can rely on ourselves and not other people? That's what blacks preach: support black businesses so we can support ourselves. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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My question is what's the use of supporting black businesses if they're not supporting black people? Wasn't that the purpose of creating black businesses in the first place; so we can rely on ourselves and not other people? That's what blacks preach: support black businesses so we can support ourselves.
Well according to Abm, it is entirely possible to accidentally staff a black business with exclusively lighter-skinned and hispanic workers. I've never run across anything like that, but I'm with you, Tonya. You have every fucking right to refuse to patronize colorists. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3996
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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I would venture to say that in the year 2006, black people go into business for themsleves because they are capitalistic entrepreneurs who have a product or service which they want to make a profit from. If black people support them, that's icing on the cake, but I don't think they depend on this. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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I would venture to say that in the year 2006, black people go into business for themsleves because they are capitalistic entrepreneurs who have a product or service which they want to make a profit from. If black people support them, that's icing on the cake, but I don't think they depend on this.
Holy shit that's untrue. I mean, it's just strikingly untrue. The vast, vast majority of black businesses in this country are small, neighborhood businesses which most definitely cater to black clientele. Meaning, most black businesses are not engineering firms which are selling cross-racial products or services. Most black businesses are beauty salons, restaurants, barber shops and other types of businesses which almost wholly depend on the support of other blacks to stay afloat. I would imagine that most don't mind this, even banding together with "shop black" promotions and black trade associations. Employing that crazy concept that they actually enjoy being black and having black patrons. Crazy, I know...
Again, in my experience, black businesses are happy to cater to blacks and I have not encountered one which employed colorist hiring practices. If I noticed such, I would most definitely take my business elsewhere. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3997
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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You don't say? Woooooo! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Tonya,
there are TONS of study data and sociological journals that back up exactly what you are noticing....as well as what you and I see with the naked eye.
Black people, out of Shame, cloak themselves in denial.
Just the other day, ABM, was pointing out that the majority of black bums on the street are darkskinned black men---and that he hasn't seen a lightskinned one.
We all know that the welfare office, prison ward and inner city stoop is swarming with jet black nappyhaired black FEMALES-----while the NAACP dinner parties and any white collar "BLACK" event are attended almost entirely by dark brown and light BLACK MEN with their High Yellow and Non-black wives.
This is what colorism is.
Black people perpetuating White Color Values against other black people----and then claiming it's a coincidence.
And the reaction you are getting here from people like Cynique, ABM, Babygirl and Doberman---is the standard DENIAL that allows it to proliferate and take place.
Just as White Racists become "fatigued" and "frustrated" by constantly being confronted with racial issues.....
....Mainstream Blacks feel the same away about constantly being reminded of the conditions and prejudices aimed at those among us who are the most "authentic" looking.
As the book "Blacker the Berry" dramatized---black business owners have always (especially with females) hired the lightest blacks and put them up front...and put the darker people in the back room. IT'S A FACT. Mainly because the blacks with the most money and education....are very lightskinned themselves OR are the brown children of lightskinned parents.
Unforuntately, very dark skinned men are the MOST colorstruck people in our community and are more likely to just hire Non-blacks for the FRONT and get a "black male" for the back room, but they continue the pattern.
NATALIE COLE, in her autobiography, pointed out how her light brown mother would not allow dark skinned "blacks" to enter her father's Beverly Hills mansion through the front door---they had to come through the Back door.
This included Nat King Cole's very dark skinned mother.
If Lena Horne visited, then she was allowed to enter through the front door.
When I did my book signings in Detroit and Wash. D.C. and Chicago in 2004---at so called AFROCENTRIC bookstores----the male owners were deep chocolate colored (like most of the guests); but the store representative greeting me was always a high yellow woman with light eyes and dreadlocks.
The lighter wealthier people arranged themselves up front, so full of LOVE and WELCOMING for "Mother Africa"...and the people cowering intently in the very back looked the most African.
We are all CONDITIONED to see it as normal, and the hostility you're getting here is because people fear what is a FAMILIAR BLANKET being snatched away.
Now they know how White folks felt in the 60's and 70's.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 3998
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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My last post was meant for black-ignorance, Tonya. In response to your post, maybe asking fellow blacks for their support is a marketing strategy utilized by black business people. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 80
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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there are TONS of study data and sociological journals that back up exactly what you are noticing....as well as what you and I see with the naked eye.
Kola, you have any links? I would be interested in reading such a study, particularly one which shows regional trends. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 81
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:41 pm: |
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Cynique two minutes ago: If black people support them, that's icing on the cake, but I don't think they depend on this.
Cynique's new story: maybe asking fellow blacks for their support is a marketing strategy utilized by black business people.
Marketing strategy? It's called their livelihood. They are not "asking" blacks to support their businesses; for the vast majority of black businesses, they have no choice but to depend on blacks if their businesses will be viable at all. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1881
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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"We are all CONDITIONED to see it as normal..."
This is so true, Kola, because like I said, I've been seeing these doctors for years--and I didn't start noticing how wrong they were until I started studying colorism. I knew it (favoring lights) was wrong, but I didn't realize HOW wrong it was, that these black men were effecting black people's lives the SAME EXACT WAY that white on black racism does. And I thought I was doing the right thing by supporting them. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4000
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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You're so thick-skulled, black-ignorance, that you don't realize that I was speculating, offering possibilities, not definite answers. Guess I'll go buy a can of Raid so I can get rid of you. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom, you'll have to do your own research.
I'm too busy and don't have time.
It's relatively easy to find. Just look up Colorism.
Did you read the rest of my post??
Because along with Natalie Cole's testimony, are autobiographies by Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Josephine Baker, Alice Walker, Maya Angelou, Bessie Smith, Berry Gordy, testifying to the same thing. This has a been a practice among blacks.
Didn't "Their Eyes Were Watching God" have a light skinned woman character who wouldn't hire darkies in her restaurant?
And BET is just one example of it still continuing.
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Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 82
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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You're so thick-skulled, black-ignorance, that you don't realize that I was speculating, offering possibilities, not definite answers. Guess I'll go buy a can of Raid so I can get rid of you.
You offered a qualified opinion, and as usual, your opinion was just totally ridiculous, something you pulled out of your ass with zero understanding of that which you presume to speak.
This is an intelligent opinion:
I would imagine that most don't mind this, even banding together with "shop black" promotions and black trade associations.
Notice, that there is no real conclusive evidence offered, but the opinion conforms with easily verifiable information. It's clear that I didn't just pull it out of my ass or make shit up.
This is a ridiculous opinion:
If black people support them, that's icing on the cake, but I don't think they depend on this.
Notice, this contradicts easily verifiable information, but was created to further an ideological agenda which itself has little relation to reality.
I told you I was going to start coming after you, especially after you trolled my thread. You like to speak with authority, even when giving "opinions," but I have yet to see a series of comments from you which make sense. Time to call it a wrap, Cynique. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1882
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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Cynnique,
"My last post was meant for black-ignorance, Tonya. In response to your post, maybe asking fellow blacks for their support is a marketing strategy utilized by black business people."
I never said that. This is how it went down, WORD FOR WORD:
______________________________________
Cynnique said:
I would venture to say that in the year 2006, black people go into business for themsleves because they are capitalistic entrepreneurs who have a product or service which they want to make a profit from. If black people support them, that's icing on the cake, but I don't think they depend on this.
Tonya Responded:
Well they shouldn't be the ones screaming "support black businesses!"--and they shouldn't expect such support because to most blacks people, supporting black businesses means a certain thing (as I described in my 11:59 post). Other than that, I agree with you 100%, Cynnique.
________________________________________
But then I deleted it because I didn't want to get in the middle of your and Black wisdom's debate. Thank god I had a copy of it on file, to prove how notorious you are for telling bold-faced lies. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom, you'll have to do your own research.
I'm too busy and don't have time.
Usually, on a message board, when someone claims to have studies confirming an allegation, it is incumbent upon that person to produce links to back it up, if possible. For example, if Cynique asked for links to information which proves that most black businesses are small businesses catering to other blacks, it would be incumbent upon me, not her, to produce the links. That was pretty rude, Kola.
Did you read the rest of my post??
Because along with Natalie Cole's testimony, are autobiographies by Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Josephine Baker, Alice Walker, Maya Angelou, Bessie Smith, Berry Gordy, testifying to the same thing. This has a been a practice among blacks.
Didn't "Their Eyes Were Watching God" have a light skinned woman character who wouldn't hire darkies in her restaurant?
I was wondering if there was a contemporary study conducted showing statistical trends, because I like to read stuff like that. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:16 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom,
I'm sorry and I do apologize. I certainly wasn't trying to be rude.
But really--I don't have time.
This is, however, what I do for a living. Gather such information and write books about it.
Statistical studies are not online, but can be found in College Libraries and Journals, I believe TEMPLE UNIVERSITY did the most recent one.
For Black Academics or any well read black, these facts are pretty well common knowledge, although still not spoken about.
And this was my point to you in another thread---I am more concerned with what we do against each other than I am with what white people do to us.
How do you fight a great beast like the White God if your own child is stabbing you in the back and wants to be white?
You can't win until you PUT THINE OWN HOUSE in order. But blacks are not able to be self-critical.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4001
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
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What bold-faced lie did I tell, Tonya? Like I said to black-ignorance, I was SPECULATING. Didn't I write that I would "venture" to say; didn't I say that "maybe" black men asked for black support as a marketing ploy? You folks really have a need to try and catch me in something, don't you? I find this amusing because I say whatever I feel like saying and if you tight-jawed fools can't deal with my Zen mind games, then that's your problem. LMAO. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 84
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:24 pm: |
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I did find some links to studies on the effects of colorism on black economic status, if anyone else is interested:
http://www.lafayette.edu/news.php/view/6034/:
Excerpt:
This paper investigates complexion homogamy (light marries light and dark marries dark) in the African-American community. The evidence reveals a marked pattern of complexion homogamy dating back to the mid-nineteenth century. The evidence also reveals that the convention of complexion homogamy had meaningful economic ramifications. Complexion homogamous marriages among light-complected blacks resulted in households with higher literacy rates, higher occupational status, and greater household wealth.
--------------
This one studies trends from the 19th century, but still seems interesting:
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/11732.html [pdf file]
Excerpt:
Data on more than 15,000 households interviewed during the 1860 federal census exhibit sharp differences in wealth holdings between white, mulatto, and black households in the urban South. [snip] In addition to higher wealth holdings of white households as compared to free African-Americans in general, there are distinct differences between both the characteristics of and wealth of free mulatto and black households, whether male- or female-headed. While black-headed households' mean predicted log wealth was only 20% of white-headed households', mulatto-headed households' was nearly 50% that of whites'. The difference between light- and dark-complexion is highly significant in semi-log wealth regressions. In the decomposition of this wealth differential, treatment effects play a large role in explaining the wealth gap between all subpopulation pairs.
---------------
This was a "The Hierarchies of Color Conference" which took place last year; there are no live links, but tons of cites to academic journals:
http://crg.berkeley.edu/events/hiercolor.html
Wow, just wow. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 85
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:25 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom,
I'm sorry and I do apologize. I certainly wasn't trying to be rude.
No worries. I just found some links and posted them above in case anyone wanted to read studies on this. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 86
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:27 pm: |
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I say whatever I feel like saying and if you tight-jawed fools can't deal with my Zen mind games.
In other words, you're an idiot. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4002
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:29 pm: |
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I just got my can of Raid, black ignorance. SPRITZ! SPRITZ! ROTFLOL. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:31 pm: |
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My bad, Cynnique. I thought you were acussing ME of making that ingnorant statement, you know, one of ones black wisdom already scolded you about. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:32 pm: |
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I just got my can of Raid, black ignorance. SPRITZ! SPRITZ! ROTFLOL.
Is this another "zen mind game," or just more evidence of imbecility? And thank you Tonya and Kola for spreading knowledge. This, despite the trolls, is a really good thread. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:37 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom, thanks for posting the links.
Because I, like Tonya and others here, truly love Black people, and I would not lie on them.
We have been doing dirt against each other..."color-coding" each other....and if we are to defeat the White Invader (who invaded not just our land, but our bodies)...then we have to truly love our Blackness and reject the "vision" that he impaired upon us.
In any war, you expunge the traitors within your own ranks---and many of us, INNOCENTLY, are against our own people. Especially the media images we create, are "anti-black"....but are called PROGRESS.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1500
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:39 pm: |
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Let's not ignore the statistical studies that Black_Wisdom found---for all those who chided Tonya:
I did find some links to studies on the effects of colorism on black economic status, if anyone else is interested:
http://www.lafayette.edu/news.php/view/6034/:
Excerpt:
This paper investigates complexion homogamy (light marries light and dark marries dark) in the African-American community. The evidence reveals a marked pattern of complexion homogamy dating back to the mid-nineteenth century. The evidence also reveals that the convention of complexion homogamy had meaningful economic ramifications. Complexion homogamous marriages among light-complected blacks resulted in households with higher literacy rates, higher occupational status, and greater household wealth.
--------------
This one studies trends from the 19th century, but still seems interesting:
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/11732.html [pdf file]
Excerpt:
Data on more than 15,000 households interviewed during the 1860 federal census exhibit sharp differences in wealth holdings between white, mulatto, and black households in the urban South. [snip] In addition to higher wealth holdings of white households as compared to free African-Americans in general, there are distinct differences between both the characteristics of and wealth of free mulatto and black households, whether male- or female-headed. While black-headed households' mean predicted log wealth was only 20% of white-headed households', mulatto-headed households' was nearly 50% that of whites'. The difference between light- and dark-complexion is highly significant in semi-log wealth regressions. In the decomposition of this wealth differential, treatment effects play a large role in explaining the wealth gap between all subpopulation pairs.
---------------
This was a "The Hierarchies of Color Conference" which took place last year; there are no live links, but tons of cites to academic journals:
http://crg.berkeley.edu/events/hiercolor.html
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4004
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:39 pm: |
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SPRITZ, SPRITZ, SPRITZ.(The Raid must be working because the black-ignorance entity sounds like it's disoriented.) |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 88
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:41 pm: |
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And Kola, you probably already know about this, but just in case...
http://crg.berkeley.edu/programs/programs.html
The Colorism Project [at UC-Berkeley]
The Center for Race and Gender is excited to announce a new research initiative on colorism. Colorism is a form of discrimination that structures inequality by creating social evaluations based on skin tone. Colorism is in effect when one’s complexion becomes the basis for awarding, restricting or denying access to power and resources in various arenas of society. Such discrimination produces a skin tone hierarchy.
The CRG welcomes participation and input from other scholars conducting research in this area or on related issues of skin tone bias. This initiative is being led by Percy Hintzen, African American Studies and Evelyn Nakano Glenn, Ethnic Studies and Gender and Women's Studies. If you would like to be a part of this exciting initiative, please contact the CRG by phone: or by e-mail.
Sounds pretty exciting. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 152
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:41 pm: |
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most small business are family owned or a sole proprietorship. if it's a family ran business, do you think that a person will actually give a fuck about colorism if they are employing their own kids, wife, cousins, aunts, unlces, or parents? |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 89
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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Because I, like Tonya and others here, truly love Black people, and I would not lie on them.
My turn to apologize, because I definitely didn't mean to insinuate that you were lying. I really only wanted some links. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 90
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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SPRITZ, SPRITZ, SPRITZ.(The Raid must be working because the black-ignorance entity sounds like it's disoriented.)
Go sit down somewhere. The grown folks are talking. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4005
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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Carry on, folks, I'm outta here. I'm not getting sucked into another one of these loooong drawn out threads about colorism. Buh Bye |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
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most small business are family owned or a sole proprietorship. if it's a family ran business, do you think that a person will actually give a fuck about colorism if they are employing their own kids, wife, cousins, aunts, unlces, or parents?
You must have missed Abm's comment above, in which he describes innocently or inadvertantly color-staffing his business. You're right; most small businesses are family owned or sole proprietorships. However, small businesses are also the #1 employers in the country, and are not exclusively staffed by relations. The data in the links above indicates that those black businesses which are hiring non-relatives may in fact be using colorist criteria in staffing decisions. Really, really disturbing, especially as I (at least think) have not encountered this. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 92
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:49 pm: |
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Carry on, folks, I'm outta here. I'm not getting sucked into another one of these loooong drawn out threads about colorism. Buh Bye
Good riddance. Your departure will raise the quality of this discussion exponentially. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 153
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:52 pm: |
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tonya if you didn't like what you saw and decided to go to another dentist based on that as opposed to the proficiency of your dentists work or despite quality customer treatment, then that was your right. however, if the brutha had a predominatly black staff then once again, i'll simply have to cross you off as looking for something that's not even there. i have to say i agree with abm, especially since i work in a specialized field (which might i ad, i had not one single dark skinned in my college classes) ... i'd have no problems telling someone to have a good one and good luck out there. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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Ooooh! Thanks for the links, guys. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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Doberman:
most small business are family owned or a sole proprietorship. if it's a family ran business, do you think that a person will actually give a fuck about colorism if they are employing their own kids, wife, cousins, aunts, unlces, or parents?
KOLA:
My own grandmother put me up for adoption because I am visibly black.
And colorism is an intricate part of black families. Maybe not yours---but most.
Just like you defended BET, you're trying to bury your head in the sand once again here.
I'm sure you've been in the gym with other darker black men and heard their comments about women and not analyzed what they were saying when discussing who is attractive and who isn't--we all do it, because we're conditioned to it.
It's very painful to acknowledge these things about our own people, but for some of us---it's crucial that we do.
I am dark and I am a woman, Doberman. You have already stated that you could give a shit about BET representing my image--so then that means I have to do it.
And I am the mother of the race, it's my dark womb that makes us black, and ANY TIME that you fail to protect or attach value to dark black women....you are CONTRADICTING what you claim...that you are a black man whose down for his people.
If you're not down for me, then there will be NO PEOPLE.
I wish you would wake up and see what we are talking about here.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1885
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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Dobes:
...if the brutha had a predominatly black staff then once again, i'll simply have to cross you off as looking for something that's not even there.
Tonya:
Technically, Dobes, he doesn't, not up front. Because they (besides the one older darkskinned woman) are bi-racial, one is even latina. So technically, no, he doesn't have an all black staff. Not up front anyway.
Dobes:
..i work in a specialized field (which might i ad, i had not one single dark skinned in my college classes) ...
Tonya:
Since when did you need a degree to become a receptionist? Come on! |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 154
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:15 pm: |
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lol, my woman is from africa, and you know she doesn't talk anything like you do kola. i didn't go out of my way looking for her but when i saw her it was what we are now....all good.
i didn't say i didn't give a shit about b.e.t representing dark skinned black women, i said i don't like to see black women downing other black women because they happen to be a brighter (notice how i didn't say better) shade than you.
as far as your upbringing, i had nothing to do with that. if you where in my family that wouldn't have happened...period. when bruthas talk about girls your right half of the time dakrer skinned women are left out of the topic or barely get there props.... ok, what do u want me to do about it? that stuff is all personal, business is a different realm altogether. (yes there are some equalities but seeing as how i've been in a hiring position a few times within my life, i was just happy to have had another blk person w/ me dark or light. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:17 pm: |
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ABM said:
I co-own a business that's staff almost entirely by lightskinned Black and Hispanic females. And my color of my staff is the product of who applied for the jobs, their qualifications and their willingness to fulfill their job requirements...NOT their skintone.
KOLA:
And because you're in the chocolate city of CHICAGO, I flat out don't believe you, ABM.
I believe that on some subconcious level, skin tone and social representations of what supposedly just "looks right", "looks successful"....played some part in your hiring.
For instance, if you suddenly had to replace that staff with ALL MALES....I doubt very seriously that you would surround yourself with only light skinned males and hispanic men.
You wouldn't allow it. You would SEEK OUT some good ol' black brothas---men with some color on them.
And the studies that Black_Wisdom posted (along with the hundreds of others I've read) only reinforce my disbelief in your statement---mainly becuase----that's what they always say/claim.
That color had nothing to do with it.
Yet the dynamics remain the same.
And the fact that you ducked into the BET thread, but never said a single word in favor of me and Tonya's assertion that you can't claim to represent "black people" and then exclude dark skinned black women....further convinces me that I'm right.
It's as though you're blaming the victims of this hierarchy for standing up for themselves and complaining about it.....by claiming it's all in their minds or less important than they're making it out to be.
SILENCE...equals....CONSENT.
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Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 155
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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tonya
i was folowing up on abm's comment. i thought u where talking about the real jobs... who cares about a receptionist position? if you go back there that person prolly wont even be there next time. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:19 pm: |
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my woman is from africa, and you know she doesn't talk anything like you do kola.
That's because she's not too bright.
Evidenced by the fact that you're her man.
|
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 157
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:31 pm: |
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lol ... maybe, i'm still wondering how i lucked up |
Mzuri
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 88
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:32 pm: |
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Dobey - Being a receptionist is a REAL job, and if you think about it, it's one of the most important positions in an office/business because that's the first person that you encounter in person or telephonically.
And not trying to speak for Ms. Tonya, but I think the point she was trying to make is that her colorists are placing light, bright and almost white ppl in their receptionist positions. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 158
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:37 pm: |
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mzuri,
alrighty then, i hope every dark skinned woman gets a receptionist job that applies for one.
how's that? oh...can't forget.... i hope all light skinned, high yella, also known as not really black women become poor and unemployed.
|
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 93
Registered: 02-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:39 pm: |
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when bruthas talk about girls your right half of the time dakrer skinned women are left out of the topic or barely get there props.... ok, what do u want me to do about it?
Are you kidding? What can you do about it? How about first and foremost, when your friends are sitting around talking about women and you notice they are evaluating them based on colorist criteria, call them the fuck out. Let them know that they are dealing with a real negro and when they are around you, that shit isn't going to fly. I'll give you an example: I went to an HBCU for undergrad and encountered a lot of the colorist mentality. I had one friend freshman year who was obsessed with color. By senior year, and to this day, this chick knows better than to talk that shit around me, because I will go off. In fact, she has adopted many of my progressive tendencies and every now and then will actually check herself when she starts to say shit like "good hair." You have no idea how much of an impact you can have if, rather than being complacent about this, you speak up and stick to your guns. And despite the nervous laughter, you'll also find that you are the most respected in your circle of friends, because you don't put up with coon shit.
That's what you can do. Please don't minimize your potential impact on others and how that can carry the whole community out of this ignorant, destructive morass. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 94
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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alrighty then, i hope every dark skinned woman gets a receptionist job that applies for one.
how's that? oh...can't forget.... i hope all light skinned, high yella, also known as not really black women become poor and unemployed.
That's a strawman argument and isn't worthy of a response. Doberman, step up your game. You are an obviously intelligent man and can contribute much more to the debate than strawmen. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 159
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 03:04 pm: |
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black wisdom...
i don't hang out w/ people who are colorstruck. if the question comes up about who would i rather have halle or janet jackson, then i make my choice (because we know those are my real life options of course)... i was giving kola this much. that when topics come up like that, the chances of darker skinned entertainers don't come up very often at all ... so i can see why they dislike b.e.t. because they really don't promote daker skinned women. but when we talk about women we really know, then we talk about them all. as far as your incident i think that's a hbcu thing. i never hear that kinda stuff about good hair and all of that shit unless i'm in detroit. so as far my sticking up for my guns i do i wont pawn them for nothin', by the way my last comment was meant to be read in a sarcastic tone. |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 95
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 03:10 pm: |
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so i can see why they dislike b.e.t. because they really don't promote daker skinned women. but when we talk about women we really know, then we talk about them all.
Fair enough. I stand corrected, Doberman. Thanks for replying. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 742
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 03:45 pm: |
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I can't speak for other parts of the country, but here, business people who put a "BLACK OWNED AND OPERATED" sign in the window DO get more business from us. And, from what I've personally seen, most businesses that I buy products from have what seems to have maybe 95% or more black customers. Some businesses I've been to, I've never seen non-black customers in there EVER. So, at least for these businesses, it would seem very odd if their personnel were mostly light skinned or hispanic.
But I can't say for sure if this same thing would apply to businesses in other parts of the country. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:09 pm: |
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How many of you guys see black doctors, do business with black lawyers, know black club owners, things of that nature? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1504
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:15 pm: |
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I do.
And they're overwhelmingly colorist in their hiring, family life.
In fact, the higher up you go economically with blacks....the lighter it gets and the more you see one key person missing---the mother of the race; darkskinned black female.
Of course like Hattie McDaniel in her day---OPRAH is the glaring exception to the rule.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1887
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Remeber: stores require heavy lifting, bending, standing on your feet all day, not "eye candy" like some professional businesses and night clubs seem to think. (not unless it's some upscale/trendy store.) |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1505
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Take my man, Thomas for instance. He's another exception to the rule.
People in L.A. are shocked when they discover that his big ol ranch has a black African queen installed on it.
Southern California is BI-Racial, Interracial MECCA.
So it's very shocking to black men out here who visit Thomas.
He owns an electrical business. All four workers are black and 3 are from Belize. Two are females, one light (my old typist) and one very dark from Belize (who became Thomas's girlfriend for a short time when he and I broke up).
That's because I did all the hiring.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 746
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
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Doctors and lawyers that we've seen for the past 5 years have been MAJORITY black american female or African male.
My son is in a facility twice a week where he sees 3 therapists (physical, speech, and occupational). ALL of the therapists are black female. The owner of the facility is an African woman. Of course, the majority of her clients (actually, all that I've personally seen or whose children I've seen) are black. She may have a non-white client or child, but I haven't seen them. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1888
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:21 pm: |
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Exactly, Kola. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 747
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:26 pm: |
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Of course, with her business being in a black neighborhood, and all of her clients being black, and her business being located near FOUR historically black colleges (Morehouse, Spelman, Morris Brown, and Clark-Atlanta) with enough professionals graduating and living nearby, it would be a really big red flag if all of her therapists were non-black. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1889
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
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And we all know what "eye candy" means in this colorist culture. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 748
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:29 pm: |
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Oh.....but then again, she is a WOMAN in charge, so there may lie the difference. She's practical and may not see why she should look for therapists somewhere else when she doesn't even have to really leave her neighborhood for them, when there's so many nearby and who would look more like the CLIENTS she's catering to. |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:56 pm: |
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visine? |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 161
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 04:57 pm: |
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visine with sugar |
Doberman23
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 162
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:07 pm: |
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i would like to state that should i decide to hop into the land of entrprenuership i would not hire family members, because i would hear so much stuff if i fired one of them. and i wouldn't hire any attractive women, because i don't want to be tempted to have a office affair. ok, you may all go back to beotching about unfair stuff. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1890
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:13 pm: |
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I actually shop on line for toothbrushes, soap, all personal hygiene products,
all hair care products, ect. Simply because there aren't a lot of black owned stores in philly (most black owned businesses here are professional ones) and so I choose to support a black owned store in North Carolina via the internet. Yes, I have to pay more for shipping & handling, but that's how far I go to support black businesses. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 749
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 05:31 pm: |
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Tonya, GIRL, you need to move to Atlanta. You won't even need to leave your neighborhood for black owned businesses. Even grocery stores are black owned here.
There's a nearby hospital that was going out of business, and 3 black doctors bought it from the city (or the county or whoever) and are re-furbishing it and it will be in business again soon.
Magic Johnson (not fair, since he's already a gazillionaire) has a FEW businesses here, 2 just in my neighborhood (a theatre and a Starbucks) and he owns some Burger Kings in other parts of town.
You can go to a lot of African owned stores (they're notorious for only hiring family and friends, but that's a good thing, IMO). |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 294
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 01:54 am: |
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Dead thread. Colorism rehashed all over again. Quit complaining. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4364
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 05:44 am: |
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It's unfortunate how inured in anti-colorist dogma some of you are that you thwart your own ability to learn. Thanks Tonya for at least having the intellectual courtesy to ASK questions rather than immediately making baseless assertions.
In the years my wife and I have been business owners/managers, MOST of those we've hired/managed have been Black FEMALES. And they've run the complete spectum of skincolor. They've been practically White, blue Black and everything in between.
The skintone of my current staff is mostly a function of coincidence. Employees, for a myriad of reasons, come and go. If one were to examine my staff, say, 18 months prior, one would mistakenly assume I PREFER to hire brown/darkskinned Black women.
Actually, I'd probably argue that my best employees have been darkskinned Black women. But I DON'T think skintone was the reason for such. They just happened to be smart, hardworking people. But because they were highly competent people, they moved on to bigger/better opportunities (though we still have business dealings with one of them).
And my business is adjacent to a growing, thriving HISPANIC community. Many of my CUSTOMERS are HISPANIC (and/or Afro-Hispanic). In fact, (I think) all of the Hispanics who've ever worked for me had initially been my CUSTOMERS.
Now, back to my original point to Tonya: Yes. Were I confronted by someone who's making the fallacious claims you're making, I would as politely and graciously as possible sever our business relationship. Why? Because, frankly, it would probably do more harm than it would good for me to attempt to prove you wrong.
See. I'm NOT in business to effect and validate some desired socially-engineered agenda. I may appreciate and empathize with the gist of the argument you're attempting to make. But I don't have the time, resources and inclination to manipulate my staffing based on how African one does/doesn't look. I'd SOON by out of business if I concerned myself with such a frivolous notion.
I'm in business to create wealth and income for myself and my family via providing beneficial goods/services to those who desire and can afford such. And the better I'm able to achieve that, the better I'll able to provide opportunies for others; including dark, brown, light (and dayam-near White) Black women. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 966
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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The area we live in is extremely diverse. Because of this, we are fortunate to have numerous, reputable, black, health care professionals. With the exception our dentist and my PCP, all of our doctors, including our children's pediatrician, are black. Our accountant is black. The men my husband does business with are black. The speciality grocery stores we frequent are black-owned.
However, I've never paid attention to the skin-tone of the staff/employees--and never thought about it until now.
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 305
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 07:12 pm: |
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Recently I had to change dentists because I noticed he was doing something a lot of black doctors in Philly do: he had all the lightskinned employees working up front, being seen and performing the less labored functions (except for an older darkskinned woman), then he had the darkskinned employees working in the back, out of view, and performing the more labored tasks (cleaning, filing, repair ect). This kind of behavior pisses me off; yet I want to support black businesses thus I decided to try my luck with another black dentist. I can’t say that I was too surprised when I found that all of the black dentists in my area had the same colorist arrangements. So I ended up going to a white dentist. My PC doctor is a black woman who doesn’t appear to be colorist in her hiring practices. Ditto for my dermatologist. But the list is shrinking more and more as I become increasingly sensitive to colorism. Now I find myself supporting more white businesses than I did 10 years ago. A lot more actually. Does anyone else have this problem? If so, what have you done? If not, what would you do?
They do that in Philly. I was reading an article on the internet and a lady said that in Philly alot of black ppl have self-hatred issues. Is that true? If so, why in Philly?
Also, Kola I don't know where you live in L.A but I don't see the colorist problems that you are talking about. However, I am starting more and more black women with non-black men. And I say "whats wrong for the goose is wrong for the gander". If black men shouldn't be colorist niether should black women. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1522
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 07:31 pm: |
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Serena,
Who else can black women in California date when all the men say they don't want black women?
Don't try to claim that Black women give a shit about a black man being black. By the numbers, it's just not true.
The overwhelming majority of black WOMEN want to be with a black man and they want him to look like Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan, Nelly or like the biracial guy who starred in "The Gospel" and is now starring in "Madea's Family Reunion".
Most of the Black MALE sex symbols are created/supported by Black women....they're overwhelmingly Dark Chocolate black men or brown like Will Smith.
Black women are not the ones wielding the color code in the black world...and they never have been.
What black women are reacting to is DESPERATION.
If all the KOBE BRYANT age black males will no longer date a Black female (and are saying so quite vocally, supposedly because ALL black women are "inately" EVIL, yet WHITE golddigger/sluts with a GUT are "GOOD WOMEN")----then who in the hell are these girls supposed to date?
God knows enough of them have tried dating each other.
Don't even come at me with that bullshit.
And the STATISTICS are on my side for Los Angeles and Southern California. Black males are 5 times more likely to be in an interracial relationship here than Black females.
Everytime I go to the Post Office, the grocery store, the movie theatre, the club---EVERYWHERE---all I see are Black men with Non-black women.
Even the Yellow black girls are all alone out here and most have RELOCATED to places like Atlanta.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1523
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 07:38 pm: |
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And frankly, how can the next generation of black girls even trust black men?
You betrayed and abondoned us.
It doesn't matter if you, Thomas, ABM, Troy and another 20% did not....the FACT is.....the overwhelming majority of black men DID...in some way....and the ones like Thomas, ABM, Troy, etc. scarcely lifted a voice in protest.
You were too busy getting your jollies at some IMAGINED victory over the white man. Too busy slapping your sons on the back and being proud that their children look like snot pillars instead of like black men.
What do you really expect young black girls to do now that they believe (for good reason) that you hate and devalue them?
And that it's better to be white (obviously)---they learned it from YOU (black men) and YOUR choices.
I warned you about all this!! But no--I'm a woman and a foreigner, so you can't listen.
You make sure you read BOTH these last 2 posts, Serena.
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 308
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 08:32 pm: |
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I hear what you are saying Kola and no need to be defensive, but colorism in the black community in ingrained in both men and women. I know alot of girls(my sister being one of them) who don't date dark-skinned men. And I don't believe that all of the black women I see with non-black men are doing out of desperation. Some of them are just as colorstruck as the black men.
Kola, you know that I am one of your biggest fans but I sometimes don't agree with you in that all black women are victims, and if they are they need to stop being a victim. Like you said they need to start to stand up to these brothas.
Case in point I was at Venice Beach the other day. And I saw a really dark-skinned woman with a white man and they had a beautiful baby girl. Now I am not saying the baby was beautiful because it was mixed, I think all black children are beautiful. However, many questions came to my mind. Like, was this black girl with this white man because she truly loved him? Was she with this white man because all of the dark-skinned black men rejected her? Or was she with this white man because she was a dark-skinned woman and wanted to have non-black children? I wonder that many times when I see this situation. And not only that why do you assume that most of the black men are with non-black women because they are colorstruck but when a black woman is with a non-black man she is doing out of desperation? Why the double-standard? |
Black_wisdom_
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 100
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
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And I don't believe that all of the black women I see with non-black men are doing out of desperation. Some of them are just as colorstruck as the black men.
Word. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1527
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:23 pm: |
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Kola, you know that I am one of your biggest fans but I sometimes don't agree with you
Serena, I love you.
Thank you.
I'm just very emotional today.
Maybe I'll start bleeding soon.
I did interviews this morning and had cooking to do, and now that my boys are getting bigger--they constantly ask me things and float around spying on me, and I haven't laid down.
Just know...that I love you very much.
I just don't like these topics, but everyone keeps bringing them to up to me--and they're very emotional for me
...because I am an African mother and I know what to do, and no one listens.
This is just like when the slave trade started and no one would listen to the women. And African men beat the women if they didn't go along with the program.
If you read my autobiography, then you already know that I've put a curse on everyone.
I went to all 50 states and put my blood in the ground.
The Whites and Niggers are not going to get away with this.
Your bastard mulattos will be cursed with a million sorrows...from African mothers like me. And hate themselves into oblivion, worse than any Arab.
They're nothing but trash--no matter how much their mother's love them.
I see them dead. At the bottom of the ocean. Feasted on by rats.
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 309
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:36 pm: |
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Wow! you are emotional today. I am at school and I just got through with my class. I have this boring white professor that talks like he is half dead. However, don't be bitter just know that everyone has a place in this society. Even Colorstruck black men. We must look at them and teach our sons not to be like them. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1892
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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Serenasailor,
"I was reading an article on the internet and a lady said that in Philly alot of black ppl have self-hatred issues. Is that true? If so, why in Philly?"
I'm not sure if philly is more colorstruck than LA but now that you've mentioned it, Philly does SEEM alot more colorstruck than all of the places I've been, INCLUDING THE SOUTH.
There's no shame in their game in philly. They let their colorstruck proceedings air right out in the open, particularly the younger ones. It's not uncommon to be on a bus or subway and hear young women and boys say some of the most colorist shit you've ever heard in your life.
And... EVERYBODY... EVERYBODY... is colorstruck in philly: men, women, and children, only men and children are more open about it.
Abm,
just because YOU do not think that what I described is colorist and/or wrong doesn't mean that my charge is "fallacious" in any way. We disagree on whether it's wrong/colorist or not. I think we should leave it at that. |
Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 312
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:03 pm: |
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I understand that but why Philly of all places? Are there alot of interracial relationships in Philly? Are alot of black men running around with non-black women? What is going on? And why does everybody assume that L.A is the most colorstruck place in the U.S. I heard that Minneapolis is the interracial capitol of the U.S. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1530
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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Philadelphia was the home of one of the nation's largest Blue Vein societies.
You have to study the BOULE and Jack and Jill societies.
Philly was one. Georgetown in Wash. D.C. was a bigger one.
SEATTLE is the interracial capital of the nation.
Southern California (L.A., San Diego) is second.
Minneapolis is 4th or 5th. But the man who wrote the script for the movie "PASSION OF CHRIST" lives in Minneapolis, a very wealthy white man, and he talked to me on the phone for months with the intention of dating---we had met during my tour during layover in Minneapolis. He adopted 2 little black girls and is still single. We stopped talking when I realized that he was courting me, but he was a great guy and was looking for a "black woman". This was that year in 2004 when I was alone.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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New Orleans still leads Minneapolis in IR unions, Serena.
Southern California is the nations #2 because of White men and Asian Women followed by Black men and White women followed by Latino men and White women followed by Black men and Latino women.
For the first time in U.S. history--more biracial children were born in California (last census) than Black children.
In 1995, California was 19% black. It is now only 6% black.
Huge migrations of blacks moved out of the state, 60% of whom were black women.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
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Because Whites outnumber blacks 10 to 1 in the United States, only 3% of Whites marry out of their race. 9% of Whites Date out of their race.
Most of those Whites are white men with Asian women.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1893
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:58 pm: |
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That's a good question Serenasailor. I'm not sure why philly would be more colorstruck than other places, though there could be a historic reason for it; for example, the area where I now live, Mt. Airy, is infamous for it's colorist past. Its residents still refuse to admit that the neighborhood is indeed a part of north Philly. (North Philly is considered too black, too ghetto).
When I was a kid, however, I spent most of my summers in New York and New York did not seem nearly as colorstruck as Philly. In spite of this, I have heard that their private black doctors and law firms have (and have always had) the same colorist procedures as the ones here in Philly. If you were to walk into one of the offices hear in Philly, you'd see exactly what I'm talking about (especially if you're in my area). I heard the same is true for New York.
As for interracial couples, unless it's black man/latina woman, no, I don't see alot of them here. Mixed/biracial, and latina women are what's in vogue now. They haven't gone completely white... YET.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1894
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 12:02 am: |
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Kola:
Philadelphia was the home of one of the nation's largest Blue Vein societies.
You have to study the BOULE and Jack and Jill societies.
Tonya:
That's right Kola. And most of them resided right here in Mt. Airy.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:22 am: |
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Another thing that strikes me about your post Abm....
You said that at different times you had all colors, including darkskinned and blue/black women, working for you. Well I have been going to this dentist since I was a teenager and although his entire staff changed constantly (execpt for the older darkskinned woman who's the only "darkie" up front. She's been there since I've been a patient, probably even longer) the configuration has always been the same: Lightskinned women up front; darker people in the back. In fact... it got to the point where I kept getting confused, because it seemed like every time I went there the women up front (especially) were different; but since they all looked alike, light bright and damn near white, I'd be calling them the names of the women I saw during prior visits. They were ALWAYS correcting me for calling them the names of someone who had just left.
...Coincidence? I think not. Fallacious my ass!
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 978
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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Kola:
"I see them dead. At the bottom of the ocean. Feasted on by rats."
Moonsigns:
And you say you don't "hate" anyone--LMAO!!!!--you need to stop lying on these talks shows!!!!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4020
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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Say there, Moonie! You're getting pretty good at this business of dissipating the hot air of Kola Boof. The next thing you know, she'll be treating you to a series of bizarre pictures from her rogue's gallery. She might even accuse you of being from "nigger stock." |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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Oh, there's a LOT
that would describe Moonsigns.
Over the years we've
all gotten to know her
persnickety clam chowder-like
appeal
And look here
---that special antagonism
that exists between her
and I
But she's no "niggerstock".
NO.
She's more like your
typical know-it-all Cracker.
Always got her head up her
ass.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:26 pm: |
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You's a good old
White Bitch, Moonie.
The nigger mens can
attest to that.
But as BADD as
you think you are...
just make sure stay
away from MY goddamned
door.
Because I am one evil
black bitch who will light
your fucking ass up.
JUST ASK JESUS.
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Cocowriter
Newbie Poster
Username: Cocowriter
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:32 pm: |
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Some of you have some serious issues, baggage left over from traumatic childhood, and parents who were ignorant. I don't mean to sound cruel, but your ideas about race or anything are formed from your family and black people are so color conscious and insecure, they put that stuff on their kids. Some of you look for colorism in every turn you take; every action is suspect, you are paranoid and need help. A friend of my daughter's attended one of her best friend's father's funeral. Our friend was the ONLY light-skinned person at the funeral and she might as well had been invisible, the way she was treated. Then they started talking about light-skinned folks who are oppressing the darker-hued folks. That is ignorant and rude. Some people have so much pain, are so full of toxic negativity, they need some professional help and I don't say that lightly. Same goes for some light-skinned folks who have suffered, been teased, beat up and those who feel they are superior. Look to your yourself and how you can erase the negativity and if you really want to. Some of you debate the light skin/dark skin issues as Raison d'Etre. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4373
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
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Tonya,
Respectfully, the views you express above would be "fallacious" to the extent they refer to MY staffing decisions.
Notice I did NOT assert that ALL hiring/staffing that goes on is free of color bias. I agree that in general there is preference for lighterskinned people in this country and, perhaps, throughout the globe.
But I don't think that you can patently assume that seeing a lot of lightskinned staffers mean the person who hired/manages them are racist or colorist. What you may be seeing is their making do with what's been made available to them which, indeed, might be the consequence of external sociological factors that an individual business might have scant influence over.
Perhaps you'll have to own/manage/staff a business in a very competitive market and regressionary economy to more fully appreciate what I mean.
Now. I suppose you could select a dentist whose socio-political views (you presume) more closely match your own. I'll leave it to you to discern whether your desire for such should supersede the mutually-beneficial relationship you've enjoyed with your current dentist. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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I see absolutely no appeal on white skin unless it's on drop dead gorgeous faces/bodies; and it has to been tanned. To me, white skin is very unsightly when it's not coupled with beauty. I think average and below average looking whites are extremely unnappealing sexually. That's how I know that MOST black people who choose to marry/date white are niggers; most of them date/marry average (oftentimes below average) looking whites, and that's illogical in a world where beauty rules. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1538
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
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TO COCO-WRITER:
COLORISM...is no different than RACISM.
And your assinine wheezing is the same
routine Bullshit that WHITE PEOPLE spew
when they want to dismiss "racism"---
simply because it doesn't affect them.
I'm so sick of people like you
acting like this is a BEHAVIOR problem
...instead of a Racist Social Ill, the
"root activator" in Racism being COLOR.
So called "Darker people" have every
goddamned right to be UNHINGED, hostile
and upset with RACISM and COLORISM...both
of which are interchangeable.
So FUCK YOUR poor little friend at the funeral and BOO--fucking--HOO.
I never hear people like you coming out
of the wood work to bemoan the evils that
fall upon the treatment of little black
girls in this society---which is 100 times
more prevalent than that bullshit you just
whined about.
YOUR FRIEND will take her yellow ass back
to being at the top of the RACISM heap
tomorrow and will only prosper from White
Supremacy. Which is what she's ALWAYS
done.
And while you and tons of others are
holding her poor little yellow hand...
..NOBODY will be holding the hands or
giving a goddamned about those millions
BLACK girls who have no voice, no supporters
and are TRULY...invisible.
Now look to YOUR goddamned self and
Raison d'Etre THAT!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 4022
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
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Welcome to the club, Moonsigns. Kola is on the rampage and the good thing about this is that she makes it very convenient for anyone to see what a lunatic she is. LMAO. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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But I don't think that you can patently assume that seeing a lot of lightskinned staffers mean the person who hired/manages them are racist or colorist. What you may be seeing is their making do with what's been made available to them which, indeed, might be the consequence of external sociological factors that an individual business might have scant influence over.
And let's also not forget....that most "Colorism" is NOT INTENTIONAL.
We are "conditioned" to see certain images as "normal" and others as...disbelonging.
Most people are not even aware that they are colorist--and feel very bad about it once they made to see it.
I saw DOBERMAN'S comments/denial about BET as no different than Red neck WHITE BOYS who didn't realize that they are racist---and I observed the other males on this forums reactions to Doberman being the same that White Men usually have towards their racist White sons.
One of apathy.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 760
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:52 pm: |
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I just have to tell Dobes, something (I didn't even read any posts afterwards)....WHO CARES ABOUT RECEPTIONIST JOBS?
As someone who grew up on welfare as a child, I know that a RECEPTIONIST job can mean the difference between being on welfare, living in the projects, riding the bus, and living in a better neighborhood with your own car (maybe a hooptie, but YOUR hooptie).
Also, people who get what you may consider "low" jobs (receptionist, waitress, babysitting, daycare), don't do it just because they want to answer phones and talk to strangers. These people NEED these jobs. For these people, these ARE real jobs.
Or should she just sit at home on welfare and wait for the dentist to leave HIS post before applying for anything else.
Your answer is just some stupid excuse for why these jobs (that people NEED or they wouldn't be looking for them in the first place) shouldn't be a priority for black people.
It's interesing that these same jobs that shouldn't be a priority for black people to get (too low class, not even a REAL job, why are black people complaining about NOT getting them?) , are somehow a priority enough for EVERYONE ELSE to want them. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 980
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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Kola,
Those pics are absolutely hysterical!!!!
Kola:
"clam-chowder appeal."
Moonsigns:
LMAO!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4377
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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Kola,
If a business is staffed mostly with darkskinned people, should one assume the owner/manager has an unfair (assuming you consider that word COULD even be applied here) bias against White and lighskinned people? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1541
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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UGH!!!
Now you've gone and made feel guilty, MOONSIGNS.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to be mean to you.
I didn't know you were going to come back and be nice about it.
I really apologize.
I've always secretly liked you.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1899
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:05 pm: |
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Abm, I never said anything (fallacious) about your situation.
As far as MY situation with MY dentist, after ALL that I told you about what I saw/whitnessed, OVER THE YEARS, if you still want to make excuses for the man, you go right ahead. The only thing I ask for is consistency. All that shit we talk about white folks must cease! We cannot say one thing for the white man, and then another thing altogether when it comes to the black man (especially when the black man is doing the EXACT SAME THING that the white man is being accused of). It makes no sense to have such a double standard. Who does it benefit? You know what? Maybe that's a good question. Who benefits from this double standard? Certainly not the white man. And certainly not black, black people. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:05 pm: |
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Kola,
If a business is staffed mostly with darkskinned people, should one assume the owner/manager has an unfair (assuming you consider that word COULD even be applied here) bias against White and lighskinned people?
If Kola Boof is the boss...you damned skippy.
BUT THE FACT IS...I did the staffing at Thomas's office (my man) and I did hire two very lightskinned sisters (Americans) who I love a lot. One had worked for me previously as my typist.
It was him who wanted everyone to be BELIZIAN.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:13 pm: |
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Say this again TONYA:
All that shit we talk about white folks must cease! We cannot say one thing for the white man, and then another thing altogether when it comes to the black man (especially when the black man is doing the EXACT SAME THING that the white man is being accused of). It makes no sense to have such a double standard.
And the same goes to Coco-writer and these people who think Dark Skinned people simply have a "Behavior Problem" from childhood and are just bitter.
RACISM affects people and they have every right to be disconcerted--it changes people's lives---and OTHER people; BENEFIT from it.
My Egyptian grandmother put me up for adoption because of my dark skin.
I am not about to have ANYONE come telling me that all I have are "issues".
This is an INSTITUTIONALIZED social problem that has followed me clear around the globe.
Racism and Colorism are the same.
It's WORSE if my oppressor is my own race. I am even MORE outraged and upset.
So no one should expect BLACK PEOPLE to be enraged at Whitey, but not be even more upset about their own people discriminating against them.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 984
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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Kola,
I don't take a thing you write to heart. I just want to see you on Oprah one day--talking all that crazy shyt!
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 761
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:27 pm: |
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To answer your last question, ABM, I can't speak for Kola or for the rest of the US, but it would be quite an interesting site to see in areas where I've lived to see predominantly non-white employees in a business where there are no non-white customers. In a place like the malls where they will actually go and shop, I wouldn't see it as an issue. But, for instance, if the banks or stores near my home, where no non-blacks shop or even find themselves driving near (unless they're lost), I would find an issue with it, knowing that many more black people have probably applied there (being nearby) than the few non-whites who probably found out via a friend or something that there was a position available (considering they would otherwise not know a position was even available since they don't shop here). |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 763
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 02:46 pm: |
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Sorry, that should say it would be interesting to see predominantly non-black employees in a business where there are no non-black employees....but it means the same thing. If I go to a part of town where I'm the only black girl who's shopped there in 2 months, I would expect to see all white people there. If I'm on Cascade or Memorial (or some other areas), and know that NO non-black people will shop there, heck yeah, it would be an issue if the employees were mostly non-black.
Sorry if I confused you. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1902
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 03:00 pm: |
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BTW, Abm, I have managed a business before, I've hired and fired people, and I have never had a situation like the one you described. Probably because, ALONG WITH THIS DENTIST OFFICE, the business I managed is located in a all black community. This community doesn't have a lot of Hispanic people. It's a mixed income (somewhat well to do) black community. So, maybe you are unfamiliar with what I'm describing, as I am unfamiliar with your circumstances.
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 107
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 03:29 pm: |
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Kola,
If a business is staffed mostly with darkskinned people, should one assume the owner/manager has an unfair (assuming you consider that word COULD even be applied here) bias against White and lighskinned people?
Abm, you're probably more than sick of hearing from my ass with that Alito thread going, but I don't think that this is a symmetrical situation. It's not as if colorism is affecting both light and darksinned blacks equally negatively. The links to studies I found does in fact show that dark skinned blacks are bearing most, if not all, of the social and economic brunt of the colorism disease. It's kind of like saying, "well, aren't blacks racist too because they have their own schools?" To which the answer is of course, no, when the matter is one of survival in a society which otherwise denies all kind of access. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1552
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 03:55 pm: |
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So true Black_Wisdom.
And notice how people classify Dark black's reaction to "COLORISM"....as a Behavorial problem.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4382
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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Tonya,
I said if you approached ME with the fallacious notion of my having color-biased hiring/staffing practices, that is how I would respond. I did not say that in any/all instances - including, perhaps, your dentist - that colorist hiring/staffing does not occur. I agree it does.
I'll concede to not knowing anything about what you've experienced, whom you've hired/fired, etc.
But I would NOT totally equate what you describe to White people completely refusing to hire ANY Blacks, be they light or darkskinned. Because if you see at a place of business only lightskinned foks doing one thing and only darkskinned doing something else, you MAY be able to attribute such to colorism. But if you don't see ANY Black foks, light/darkskinned, a gig in or near an area where Black live, work, shop; it is pretty OBVIOUS what's going on.
Kola,
Kola says: "BUT THE FACT IS...I did the staffing at Thomas's office (my man) and I did hire two very lightskinned sisters (Americans) who I love a lot. One had worked for me previously as my typist."
Girl. Haven't you made the very same point that I previously made?
Black_wisdom_,
So then we should remedy the preference for lightskinned foks by adopting a preference for darkskinned foks? Is THAT what we should do? |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 119
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:59 pm: |
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So then we should remedy the preference for lightskinned foks by adopting a preference for darkskinned foks? Is THAT what we should do?
No, I don't advocate that. That's not what I said at all. I see all blacks as a family. But I am saying that in all honesty I would not have the same reaction to seeing all darkskinned blacks employed somewhere because the impact of colorism is not symmetrical. That's why I likened it to the arguments that blacks are "reverse racist" because of the existence of HBCUs which are primarily black.
Fortunately, I honestly haven't noticed small businesses that hire according to color preferences, but if I noticed such, I would doubt that it is accidental, even if the owner's/manager's choices were unconcious. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4384
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:20 pm: |
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Black_wisdom_,
I think you and the others are only making HALF of a valid point.
Yes. Color bias may be reflect in our workplace. But is the workplace the cause of the bias? Or is it the recipient of greater societal bias?
Maybe certain kinds of workplaces and positions include a disproportionate % of lightskinned people because they've - because of their skintone - had an easier time navigating the pitfalls of racism and obtaining the education/training/skillset to be hired for certain jobs.
And if I'm a employer - even a Black one - and I get 2 applications, one's from a better qualified lightskinned person, what do I do?
I'm not arguing there aren't fools out there applying "paperbag tests". But that might not be all of what you see when you see a hostess, receptionist, etc. who looks like Lisa Bonet.
PS: Personal note: My bestfriend is a VERY dark Black man. (If Oprah's 80% African, dude must be 94.6%.) Although we were both excellent students and (mostly) good kids, I recall his having much more difficulty with our teachers/administrators than I had. And I am almost CERTAIN it was because his skintone. Thanksfully, he was and is smart, strong and defiant. So he prevailed and is now a highly educated, skilled and affluent DARK Black man. Now, had he allowed those experiences to defeat him, he probably would have have embarked on a life path that might have resulted in his being one of those darkskinned foks "working in the back" that Tonya laments. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1914
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:26 pm: |
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Abm:
Because if you see at a place of business only lightskinned foks doing one thing and only darkskinned doing something else, you MAY be able to attribute such to colorism. But if you don't see ANY Black foks, light/darkskinned, a gig in or near an area where Black live, work, shop; it is pretty OBVIOUS what's going on.
Tonya:
So what you're saying is, if lightskinned people aren't being discriminated against, there probably isn't any discrimination going on....
Beacuse that's exactly what it sounds/reads/seems like you're saying. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1915
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:29 pm: |
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And don't forget that this neighborhood is overwhelmingly brown to darkskinned. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4386
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:38 pm: |
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Tonya: "So what you're saying is, if lightskinned people aren't being discriminated against, there probably isn't any discrimination going on....Beacuse that's exactly what it sounds/reads/seems like you're saying."
No. That is not what I'm saying. But then, perhaps, I am making the mistake of thinking there's more in common between light/darkskinnned Blacks than there is dissimilarity.
Okay. If qualifed brown/darkskinned foks are applying and are being rejected for gigs that are being offered SOLELY to lightskinned Blacks, then the business owner/manager is in all likelihood color-biased. |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 122
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:07 pm: |
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Maybe certain kinds of workplaces and positions include a disproportionate % of lightskinned people because they've - because of their skintone - had an easier time navigating the pitfalls of racism and obtaining the education/training/skillset to be hired for certain jobs.
Shady. Sounds too shady to me for a black person to be using this excuse for hiring by color, particularly if it is a position like a receptionist or retail staffer which, while totally requiring immense skills and intelligence, does not require a degree which may have institutionally barred more darker-skinned people out of the running. I don't buy this at all.
And your anecdote about your best friend should make you more inclined, not less, to look out for the darkerskinned folk because you have admitted to seeing what he went through.
It's not good enough to say that darker-skinned people can and should be beyond excellent so that we can rise above the hatred that we get from other blacks. That's the same excuse whites give for wanting to dismantle affirmative action (and hence, the black middle class).
Just like we lit a fire under whites to fucking FIND qualified blacks if their job/educational staffing and admittance preferences were so unintentional, we can light a fire under those blacks who would color-staff a business.
No excuses. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1920
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:40 pm: |
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Well said, blackwisdom.
That would have been my argument.. just not as eloquent, of course |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 123
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:41 pm: |
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If you had written it, it would have been more eloquent, in fact. I just curse a lot and call people names. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:50 pm: |
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Black_Wisdom
Just like we lit a fire under whites to fucking FIND qualified blacks if their job/educational staffing and admittance preferences were so unintentional, we can light a fire under those blacks who would color-staff a business.
No excuses.
KOLA:
That's just what I was saying about BET.
And it's why I got pissed at Coco-writer saying the people at the funeral merely had "behavior issues"....when the truth is.....blacks are fucking FED UP with this shit.
We don't want to hear all these excuses anymore.
It's coming to a boil....and nobody's ready.
But it's coming and LOTS of us on both sides are about to be seriously SCALDED by 6th degree burns.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
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Abm:
...perhaps, I am making the mistake of thinking there's more in common between light/darkskinnned Blacks than there is dissimilarity.
Tonya:
You could say the exact same thing about white and black folks... in fact, many white people have.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1571
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
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ABM,
Light and Dark blacks share the same CULTURE and "acculturation".
Unfortunately--their shared culture comes from House Slave/Field Slave.
There's an autobiography by lightskinned South African PETER ABRAMS that you should read. You would love it.
Hope I spelled Abrams right. Or is it Abrahms.
I love that book, because he in South Africa, he grows up with his dark skinned black friend...and it shows a totally different perspective with the same DIVISIVE problems of color coding.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4390
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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I won't accept the inference that as a whole lightskinned Black foks have mistreated darkskinned Blacks as badly as Whites have. Yes. There is bias, fallacious castes and such. But lightskinned Blacks have NOT dealt the horrors of darkskinned Blacks that Whites have Black (light/darkskinned alike). So if THAT'S what's some of you think/feel, we'll just agree-2-disagree on that.
Now. I've said REPEATEDLY that darkskinned Black are dealt a tuffer deal than lightskinned Blacks. I know I've said, somewhere, on this board the VAST majority of incarcerated Black men are dark/brownskinned. I don't think that THAT is mere coincidence.
Were I unsympathetic to what darkskinned Black people face, I would NOT have offered the anecdote about my friend. But consider all that I said: Yes, I think my friend was mistreated. But he's NOW an educated, successful man who is NEVER made to "work in the back of ANYWHERE. But had he NOT fought and educated himself, it is likely he'd have many of the difficulties that have been expressed here.
I guess I would argue that, perhaps, the issue that's being debated here would be BEST resolved PRIOR to when someone's begins looking for a job. Perhaps it's best resolved at home, the neighborhood, church and school.
You all have very definite opinions about what is happening. And I admire you for such. But it's been my experience that things are almost always MORE complex that what might manifest via a casual observation.
PS: My lightskinned mother has fed, comforted and loved my blue Black bestfriend as if he were her own. Even +30 years after he and I became friends, they call each other momma and son. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1935
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 02:52 am: |
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Abm:
Yes, I think my friend was mistreated. But he's NOW an educated, successful man who is NEVER made to "work in the back of ANYWHERE. But had he NOT fought and educated himself, it is likely he'd have many of the difficulties that have been expressed here.
Tonya:
Why should he have to FIGHT to receive EQUAL pay and EQUAL treatment, within his own community? Isn't that what we fought whites for--and now you're saying that we have to fight each other too..?
Also, keep in mind that these people up front are not a bunch of college grauduates. So why should a darkskinned man have to be a graduate to not have to take a back seat to non graduates.. WITHIN HIS OWN COMMUNITY..?
Abm:
I won't accept the inference that as a whole lightskinned Black foks have mistreated darkskinned Blacks as badly as Whites have. Yes. There is bias, fallacious castes and such. But lightskinned Blacks have NOT dealt the horrors of darkskinned Blacks that Whites have Black (light/darkskinned alike). So if THAT'S what's some of you think/feel, we'll just agree-2-disagree on that.
Tonya:
They don't have the power to do some of the harm that whites have done. But judging buy what they've done with the power they do have, there's no doubt in my mind that they'd do the same if they could. So, yeah, we'll just have to disagree. But I do recognize that, like all white people are not the same, all lightskinned people are not the same neither.
Abm:
I guess I would argue that, perhaps, the issue that's being debated here would be BEST resolved PRIOR to when someone's begins looking for a job. Perhaps it's best resolved at home, the neighborhood, church and school.
Tonya:
That I agree..
that those are some of the best places for it to be RESOLVED. But I also think that this is one of the best places for it to be DISCUSSED. I mean, it IS a discussion board about race culture and economy. Colorism and Black Businesses fits all three categories.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 4400
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 08:31 am: |
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Tonya,
Are agree that Black businesses are a part of the Black community and society where REAL instances of colorism must be addressed.
Most, if not ALL, of my bestfriends dearest, most faithful associations are BROWN/LIGHTSKINNED people. Yes. He was mistreated by foks (light/brown/darkskinned). But he was ALSO helped and loved by other non-darkskinned. In fact, given his MYRIAD family issues, he might not have made it were it not for A LOT of non-darkskinned (and White) people.
Tonya: "They don't have the power to do some of the harm that whites have done. But judging buy what they've done with the power they do have, there's no doubt in my mind that they'd do the same if they could."
So you think if they had the power to do so, lightskinned people would deny the vote, jobs, schooling, property rights; would rape, lynch and kill darkskinned Black people? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1936
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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I guess you're not disappointed in me anymore, Abm. LOL!
Cuz that never happened.
It was a dream, buddy!
You know we cool!
LOL |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 295
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 02:25 am: |
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Tonya --
"Mt. Airy, is infamous for it's colorist past"
Interesting comment. I grew up in Mt. Airy.
Kola --
"Light and Dark blacks share the same CULTURE and "acculturation"."
Not hardly, and not even in your "black" lifetime.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1630
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 02:50 am: |
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1631
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 02:51 am: |
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Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 139
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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"Light and Dark blacks share the same CULTURE and "acculturation"."
Not hardly, and not even in your "black" lifetime.
What exactly are you saying, Nels? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1633
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 03:05 pm: |
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Nels is always too much of a coward to say exactly what he means.
Which is why I gave him the FINGER.
Oh...and from a white man. Which is his favorite way of taking it. It's a Mr. Airy family tradition.
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Lifeofegypt
Newbie Poster
Username: Lifeofegypt
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 06:07 pm: |
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At least they were hiring blacks and latino's. Going to a white doctor just means that you sold out. http://www.LifeofEgypt.com |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 297
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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Kola --
"Nels is always too much of a coward to say exactly what he means."
My words speak for themselves. Coward? (Not) worth a response. And...you of all people should know that by now. Simply speaking, what part of "not" don't you understand? |
Black_wisdom_
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Black_wisdom_
Post Number: 140
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 04:05 pm: |
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Nels said: My words speak for themselves.
BlackWisdom says: Nels, you are a crazy person. Seek help. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 299
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 02:13 am: |
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Black_wisdom_ --
"BlackWisdom says: Nels, you are a crazy person. Seek help.
Don't mistake a little brash fun (on my part) for innocent naiveté, and that's being kind. Kola knows. Why don't you ask her.
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Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1666
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 02:33 am: |
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Brash fun.
You don't even SHAVE.
Shit. Grow some grapes in those boxers!
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Serenasailor
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 329
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 05:38 pm: |
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That's a good question Serenasailor. I'm not sure why philly would be more colorstruck than other places, though there could be a historic reason for it; for example, the area where I now live, Mt. Airy, is infamous for it's colorist past. Its residents still refuse to admit that the neighborhood is indeed a part of north Philly. (North Philly is considered too black, too ghetto).
When I was a kid, however, I spent most of my summers in New York and New York did not seem nearly as colorstruck as Philly. In spite of this, I have heard that their private black doctors and law firms have (and have always had) the same colorist procedures as the ones here in Philly. If you were to walk into one of the offices hear in Philly, you'd see exactly what I'm talking about (especially if you're in my area). I heard the same is true for New York.
As for interracial couples, unless it's black man/latina woman, no, I don't see alot of them here. Mixed/biracial, and latina women are what's in vogue now. They haven't gone completely white... YET.
Oh my god Tonya you live in Mt. Airy! I have read alot about that area. They said that Mt. Airy is a really snobbish place. I would love to learn more about that area. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1980
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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can't say that I personally have witnessed or experienced any of the snobbishness; as a matter of fact, my neighbors are very nice. Although we don't know each other well, we are extremely polite to each other and when we run into one another, we converse like we've known each other forever. We also do things for each other without expecting anything in return. For example, the man next door automatically mows my lawn whenever he does his. He's been doing it ever since I moved in and I barely know his name. And when the weather is bad, I check on my other next door neighbor who is elderly and live alone. I barely know her name either. We offer each other rides, all the neighbors. We send food to one another during cook-outs; and we do all of his without thinking about it much. We just do it. This area does have a reputation for being snobby but, among my neighbors, I don't see it. It's a large area though; so it could very well be different in other parts. |
Nels
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 303
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 02:20 am: |
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Kola --
Ok. Enough of the child's play. Back to business as usual. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 05:29 am: |
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Does that mean I get a spanking, Nels?
Tell me--what do you do for a living?
I'm curious.
You a writer?
And we live right here in the basin together. Just look at that.
You're off the 405 right?
Wow. What a small world.
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