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Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:29 pm: | 
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You may or may not have heard about this, but what if Haley's account of slavery is a fraud? Does that change anything about his legacy?
Does the plagiarism lawsuit he settled mean anything?
Does the claim of his white editor writing portions of the book have any validation?
Your Thoughts?
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Snakegirl
Regular Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:43 pm: |
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Black Americans are nothing but TRASH if they take any part in letting this man's work be defiled by b.s.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT WAS ALL FACTUAL OR NOT.
The story that was told is the story of MILLIONS-----regardless.
Furthermore, you already let them trash Sojourner Truth---claiming she never said "Ain't I a Woman", 130 years AFTER the fact and without proof.
The Willie Lynch letter has been proven a "fraud".
Whaaa?
The only thing TRUE according to Americans is that the White Woman fed and protected all of you during slavery times and you owe her everything---even your death.
Those are MY THOUGHTS.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2572
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |
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Hi, Brian. Where ya been for so long? With your reappearance you bring an interesting question and my response to it would be that Alex Haley as a MESSENGER was tainted; sued for plagiarism and regularly challenged over the actuality of "Roots". Moreover, the Malcolm X biographers who came after him claim that Haley's version of Malcolm's early life was greatly romanticized and quite inaccurate. But - the MESSAGES of Alex Haley redeemed him. He, himself, hinted that "Roots" was comparable to Greek and Roman mythology, and that every culture needs legend and lore to take pride in and pass on. Similarly, he turned Malcolm X into a symbolic hero who overcame great adversity to become the stalwart personification of a strong black man. Whether Haley co-opted the fiction of others for his own purposes, or used his imagination to embellish the ordinary, he did provide his people with worthwhile ideas to connect with and be aware of. For fufilling this role on the stage of black history, Alex Haley can take a bow. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 04:24 pm: |
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As I understand it the charge is not that Roots is a fraud but that Haley copied large passages from Harold Courlander's book, "The African".
On plagiarism see as follows
http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/pubs/94jie.html
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 04:29 pm: |
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http://www.answers.com/topic/alex-haley
This is a long way from being a fraud.
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Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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Interesting replies here. I think Haley's work opened the eyes of many(mine included), but would it have had the same affect if the words "a novel" had been printed on the cover. There are also charges that much of Haley's reports about Kunta Kente(sp) are indeed false and inaccurate. Supposedly, historians have found that the slave ships that were thought to have carried Kente arrived much earlier than Haley reported, therefore nullifying the accuracy of his research.
So my follow up question is why did we lambaste Jason Blair, but we resurrect statues for Alex Haley? Do we now go back and re-examine Haley's work at Harper's, Reader's Digest, Playboy and other places?
Interesting thread here.
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Snakegirl
Regular Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 06:30 pm: |
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Are you claiming that what Jason Blair did is in ANY WAY comparable to what Alex did?
One man innocently tried to embellish pride, dignity and self worth in his people on TWO continents.
The other was a drug-taking whore and self-hater whose ONLY AIM in life was to collect fat checks...from stories he made up ON THE SPOT (so as his partying time wouldn't be cut into).
What you MEANT to ask----is what's the difference between Alex Haley's "ROOTS" and Steven Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan" and "Schindler's List".
Forgive me, Brian (for being so annoyed)...but
....what did HALEY do that a ton of WHITE MEN haven't done for a thousand years?
I guess you really believe that the Queen of Timbuktu looked like Yvonne DeCarlo?
What ROOTS did to this whole nation! (if the historians recorded it correctly)....and what Malcolm X has come to mean to Black people WORLDWIDE
....is grounds enough to award Alex Haley the NOBEL PRIZE in my opinion.
And I hope that fat vagina-mouthed STANLEY CROUCH reads this board to see that I said so.
The few good black men we have---you try to tear them down.
I don't give a damn what Alex did, I'm behind him 100%
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Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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"...fat vagina-mouthed STANLEY CROUCH.."
Lawd hab mecy. Chil', you hot about this ain't cha? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1445
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 11:03 am: |
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Egeston:
The only places I have seen the charges you have made have been on the Neo Nazi sites.
Can you give us some Urls or site some sources, please? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2574
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
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Now that you mention it, Brian, Haley could've saved himself a lot of problems if he had just sub-titled Roots "a historical novel". He still could've put things on people's minds and educated them about their past by simply fictionaling this saga. That way he could've avoid being stigmatized in literary circles and maintained his credibility. And, to me, there's a thin line between what Jayson Blair did and what Alex Haley is alleged to have done. It has something to do with did whether the end justified the means. In Alex's case it pretty much did. |
Crystal
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 231
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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In a similar case in last weeks Chronicle of Higher Education [you have to subscribe to get the link] there was a long article about an English professor at the University of Maryland at College Park who is coming out with a book next month discrediting parts of the autobiography of ex-slave Olaudah Equiano. I believe Equiano’s 1789 book “The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano, or Gustavus Vassa, the African, Written by Himself” is the book with the now-famous illustrations of slaves laid out in the slave ships during the Middle Passage and is considered the definitive book describing that period. Specifically the professor, Vincent Carretta, says he’s unearthed evidence that Equiano was born in South Carolina, not Nigeria and therefore did not make that passage. I’ve never read the book but some say it could be described as a historical novel.
This article was much longer than the ones usually in the Chronicle, a weekly journal of about 50 pages for the college/university community, and they gave it the cover picture lead. This made me wonder – they’re making a big deal out of this, does it mean “folks” are now going to say the passage for the slaves wasn’t as bad as Equiano described since he wasn’t there to see it?
Yea, I know. I’m just another paranoid negro seeing boggymen in the white man’s actions.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1448
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 01:27 pm: |
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Cynique:
Neither you or Brian has any idea of what Alex Haley actually was charged with doing, do you? |
Blkmalereading
Veteran Poster
Username: Blkmalereading
Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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I've never thought of Haley's book as a historical novel, it's always been sort of a cross between that an autobiography. I always assume when reading most autobiographies that there is some embellishment, some filling in of the gaps, some imagination. I didn't think that anyone who read these types of books believe that every single word is true or accurate to that particular person. It may be true to the time period and with a bit of researh and knowledge of history you can 'imagine' or come to some conclusion as to how people dressed, what they may of eaten, how they related to each other. Historians (of which Alex never claimed to be) do this all the time. They take a few facts and make it interesting to the common person.
This is the Mary Lefkowvitz theory. The aryan need to continue to believe their own truth and hide it behind academia. The sad thing is that our own historians are dying off and I don't see a new generation coming behind to replace them. They NEED to believe that they invented and was responsible for everything. The God complex that the Last Poets warned us about. When Black historians shed light on some of their lies and retell our own stories it bothers them. I'm not surprised but I don't see the need to follow them or even care what they think. Alex Haley's book was/is a brillant piece of work!!
It's already happening in New Orleans - as it did in 1927. The atrocities that happened in the dome and convention center are already being covered up - because it shows where they didn't do their job. It was all over the news when the reporters gleefully relayed 'rumors' of rape, looting and other lawlessness. NOW as the stories begin to flow in that white folks were looting also, that police abandoned their jobs, that something went terribly wrong in New Orleans. I suspect that 5 years from now (if that long) those who witnessed things will be called liars, there will be no evidence and everything will turn into one big MYTH! We don't have our own reporters down there, we don't have our own independent news agency, we don't have a CNN, we don't have our own historians. Everything we witness and that happens at the hands of 'others' just never happened.... it's all nothing new. We're used and abused and IF we dare complain, write about it, talk about it - we're trying to be 'victims'.
For centuries they have made their barbarians and theives into world wide heroes. We foolishly follow them and for years celebrated Christopher Columbus and his 'finding' of America and Native Americans.
Of course, a Black man can't be intelligent enough to write something as profound as "ROOTS" and there cannot be a Black man who was self taught AND articulate who had the ear and conscience of the average Black person and wasn't afraid to say it! Malcolm X's life, just has to be a lie and Alex Haley was in cohoots with making up this 'lie'.
I refuse to allow white academia to define what I believe or what I deem a good piece of literature!
We stand aside and look while they kill our prophets.... Bob Marley
Redemption Song |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2575
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 02:35 pm: |
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Brian, I don't know about you, but I don't feel the need to justify what I said considering that dating back 1988 at which time he was accused by Margaret Walker Alexander the author of "Jubilee" of infringing on her copyright, up until the present, Alex Haley has been plagued by charges and accusations that have bemirched his reputation. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1450
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 03:25 pm: |
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Cynique:
Let me reprise what you and Brian have been accusing Haley of doing: to wit; faking the entire Roots story, Kunte Kinte and all.
Let me now reprise what has actually been alleged and in some cases proven, unless you can come up with some more documented proof: to wit; copying parts of other people's work without attritubting the source: ie plagiarism--not of the whole story, but passages.
As far as I know, Walker was unsuccessful in her claims.
You are in another self loathing phase, aren't you? Just tell me and I may join you in it--loathing YOU, that is. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2577
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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Haley himself did remark something to the effect that Roots was his contribution to black myth and folk lore. And when people repeatedly attack an author's veracity, it dulls his credibility. So loathe all you want to, El Jerko. It's fitting that you do so, considering what my opinion of you is. EW! LMAO |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2578
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 04:08 pm: |
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I couldn't help but detect the emotional undercurrent of those rising to Haley's defense. People hate it if there's a chance that their heroes have feet of clay. And it should be noted that many of those calling Alex Haley out on the liberties he took with "Roots" and "Malcolm X", were other blacks. Some people just don't like to be hood-winked, as opposed to those who have a great need to believe whatever makes them feel comfortable. Blacks can't expect to be treated like everyone else, and then lower their standards when it comes to judging their own. This was especially for Chris. Now calm down, you don't want to have a stroke, fatso. But if you do, I'm sure your road dog Kola will nurse your sorry ass. EEEEEWWWWWW |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 772
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 04:11 pm: |
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The autobiographical portion may not have been true, but the story of slavery is...not interested in the man but the history, besides it is his and his editor's interpretation of slavery. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2579
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 04:41 pm: |
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I agree, Yukio. And history can be accurately portrayed in a novel. |
Snakegirl
Regular Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 28
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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Those so called "BLACKS" who have been calling Haley out----Stanley Crouch and Henry Louis Gates----are two men that I don't generally "trust" as far as I cant throw them.
Gates I at least understand and sympathize with, although I can't stand him (signed Kola Boof).
Crouch is the total reincarnation of the West African slavetrader---only as an added feature, he's been cursed with the raped pussy lips of his ancestral mothers.
Good look'n out Witches of Africa! 
Furthermore,
the man who wrote this new book calling Haley an all out "fraud"---is a white conservative asswipe and HATER of black people.
His credibility based COMPLETELY on the fact that he's white--nothing else.
MOST of the places these articles attacking Haley's credibility appear are on White Racist Web Sites.....and are INFLAMMATORY, often with huge dollops of lying propoganda.
One cite even declared that Slavery is like the Holocaust---it didn't happen.
Obviously, those who have an EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT in the afformentioned theory (that it didn't happen) will...
...do anything.....
to brandish a mushroom clover on Haley's good works--thus killing the seed of what he planted.
Why didn't they adequately attack Haley while he was alive?
It seems to me they waited til he couldn't defend himself to make a campaign out of their earlier grievances.
This whole thing is being blown WAAAAYYYYY OUT of proportion.
AND FINALLY....I'm taking Haley's side, because #1--he's BLACK and #2--he gave his life in honor of BLACK people.
I wish that Black people would stop thinking like slave cubs and start practicing the good common sense of the rest of the world.
Everybody protects their griots and historians but us.
Who gives a damn if the MEANS was exaggerated----that's how wise men tell the story to the tribe, with color and exaggeration and LOVE---
shit, myths and legends are what RISE PEOPLE and INSPIRE THEM----what the hell do you think Africa was weaned on?
I don't know what's wrong with Americans. These men should be CUSSED OUT and hit with the bottom of the shoe for attacking this good man's honor.
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Snakegirl
Regular Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 29
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 05:14 pm: |
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IN WAR...
you kill, blind and destroy your enemy by any means necessary.
Alex Haley was a GOOOOOD Black man.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2580
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 05:47 pm: |
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There seems to be a tendecy to distort and skew meanings in order to make one's point on this subject. During the course of the discussion nobody has said that Alex Haley was a villain or that Roots was a sham. Everbody agreed that Haley had good intentions when he wrote Roots and that it was an inspiring story whether true or false. Alex Haley put himself in a position to be questioned, and if his answers were left wanting well, he won't be the first author to be disputed. Or the last. Roots retains its hallowed position among black history and Alex Haley remains a sympathetic figure. |
Jmho
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 08:52 pm: |
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From http://afrigeneas.com/forum-books/index.cgi?noframes;read=211
Quoting Thompson-Gale
"Haley's book stimulated interest in Africa and in black genealogy. The United States Senate passed a resolution paying tribute to Haley and comparing Roots to Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe in the 1850s. The book received m any awards, including the National Book Award for 1976 special citation of merit in history and a special Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for making an important contribution to the literature of slavery. Roots was not without its critics, however. A 1977 lawsuit brought by Margaret Walker charged that Roots plagiarized her novel Jubilee. Another author, Harold Courlander also filed a suit charging that Roots plagiarized his novel The African. Courlander received a settlement after several passages in Roots were found to be almost verbatim from The African. Haley claimed that researchers helping him had given him this material without citing the source."
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Courlander
Harold Courlander
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
As a child who was a product of a highly diverse Detroit neighborhood, Harold Courlander (September 18, 1908 - March 15, 1996) was interested in other cultures throughout his life. He spent his adult life traveling the world, collecting and studying folklore as part of his anthropological fieldwork. Haiti was his specialty, but he published collections from Indonesia, Africa, the Middle East, (Native) America, and other places as well. He had a very long and distinguished career as a folklorist, ethnographer and music scholar. Courlander wrote novels as well, and actually might be best known for the scandal surrounding his novel, The African.
In 1978 Courlander successfully sued Alex Haley, claiming that portions of Roots were lifted from The African. Haley reportedly admitted that he "unintentionally" did indeed crib Courlander's work, and paid him $650,000. Many of Courlander's folktale collections have been printed as children's books such as the lovely Cow-Tail Switch and Other West African Stories which was a Newbery Honor book in 1948.
From http://www.who2.com/alexhaley.html
Haley was sued for plagiarism by Harold Courlander, author of the 1968 book The Africans; Haley agreed that he had unintentionally used three paragraphs from Courlander's book in Roots and settled with the author out of court.
From http://libertarian.journalspace.com/?cmd=displaycomments&dcid=775&entryid=775
In 1978, Harold Courlander, author of the 1967 novel, The African, sued Alex Haley, author of the 1976 allegedly non-fiction, Roots: The Saga of an American Family, in U. S. District Court in New York for copyright infringement. The suit cited 81 plagiarized passages, including the plot and a number of the characters.
Haley vigorously denied under oath having lifted any of the material, but the theft of entire complex passages was so obvious to U.S. District Judge Robert Ward that he advised Haley that he could be looking at serious perjury charges unless he settled with Mr. Courlander.
Haley settled for $650,000 and Courlander agreed to remain silent the matter. He died in 1996.
This entire story is recounted in Jack Cashill's new book, Hoodwinked, pp 111-120. Here is an excerpt:
In the late 1970s, ... two leading genealogists, Gary Mills and Elizabeth Shown Mills, decided to follow up on Haley's work through the relevant archives in Virginia, North Carolina, and Maryland. They found that Haley, like most amateur genealogists, made mistakes. But they found too that his transgressions went well beyond mere mistakes. "We expected ineptitude, but not subterfuge," observed Elizabeth, herself the editor of the National Genealogical Society Quarterly.
The records showed that in the pre-Civil War period, Haley got virtually everything wrong. In Roots, for instance, Haley tells in great excited detail how he tracked down the very ship that Kunta Kinte had taken from the Gambia to 'Naplis, the Lord Ligonier in 1767, the very year that "the King's soldiers came" to the Gambia. In fact, as the Mills discovered, the man that Haley identifies as Kunta Kinte, a slave by the name of Toby in the possession of the John Waller family, could not have been Kunta Kinte or Haley's ancestor. Toby had been in America as early as 1762, five years before the Lord Ligonier arrived. Worse for Haley, Toby died eight years before his presumed daughter Kizzy was born.
Alex Haley himself died [in 1992] just as [New York author Philip] Nobile was beginning his research. Haley's unsuspecting archivists gave Nobile access to the various letters, diaries, drafts, notes, and audiotapes that Haley had kept. They were a veritable gold mine, theretofore unexplored. In working his way through them, Nobile came to understand the depths of Haley's "elegant and complex make-it- up-as-you-go-along scam."
From http://www.galeschools.com/black_history/bio/haley_a.htm
A 1977 lawsuit brought by Margaret Walker charged that Roots plagiarized her novel Jubilee. Another author, Harold Courlander also filed a suit charging that Roots plagiarized his novel The African. Courlander received a settlement after several passages in Roots were found to be almost verbatim from The African. Haley claimed that researchers helping him had given him this material without citing the source.
From http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/walker-margaret.html
In 1988, Miss Walker unsuccessfully sued Alex Haley, alleging that his book Roots infringed on her copyright for Jubilee. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 776
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 12:46 pm: |
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hmmmm....is this an academic discussion or are we talking about the significance of roots?
Let me answer BE's questions through both possible methods.
academic discussion:
His personal account? Yes! What actually occurred? No! It changes his legacy since it make him more of an interesting historical figure...make him a cultural intellectual rather than a socalled geneologist. Plagiarism means that he could not obtain an academic job! Perhaps, his editor did write a few sections. Again, no academic work for him..lmao!
Significance of roots:
Much of my answer would pertain to Haley as a historical figure and cultural intellectual. In this sense his plagiarism, as I see, is less important as it regards "honesty," but more essential in that it suggests his desire to give something to black people to be proud of...a heritage of struggle, continuity with the continent, and a cultural experience that was not purely "reactive," as Nels claims, but had its own internal logic distinct but still in relationship to what white folks were doing. |
Snakegirl
Regular Poster
Username: Snakegirl
Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 04:52 pm: |
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Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield were NOT natural blonds.
Lana Turner was NOT discovered sitting on a stool at Swaab's Drug Store.
Diana Ross did NOT discover the Jackson Five.
BETSY ROSS did NOT sew the first American Flag.
James Cagney NEVER SAID---"you dirty rat!"
George Washington did NOT chop down a cherry tree.
Cleopatra was "ugly" with very bad teeth, ruled Egypt at the age of 12, and was 14 when she left Cesar for Mark Antony. Dead before 20.
Sally Hemmings had her first baby by Thomas Jefferson (the child was called "Thomas Jefferson") at the age of----12.
Wow, what a love story between two consenting adults---but NONE of the films made about her have shown her as a 12 year old OR as a Mariah Carey-looking woman, which is how WHITE she was.
MY POINT IS:
Alex Haley would not be the first person to "bend history" to fit narrative construct....and then be let off the hook for it.
And he SHOULD be let off the hook.
This whole "fraud" is filled with lies and inconsistencies itself. The ONLY THING proven is that Haley stole passages of someone else's novel---but the KENTE family exists, is real and this story in ROOTS represents MILLIONS of Black people in the Western Hemisphere.
Even if Haley's story isn't completely true---everybody else's is.
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Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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Also, I find accusations questionable when they're only made after the person being accused has died.
If this had been an issue when he could defend himself, I would probably take it more seriously. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1452
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
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Cynique:
You and Brian have had three days and--I might as AS USUAL, y'all ain't got not documentation, y'all ain't got no citations, y'all ain't got nothin'.
Absent production of same, y'all is just down as some playa haters and crabs in a barrell negroes (with a little "n")--
But that ain't nothing new for you is it? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2591
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 12:39 pm: |
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I think JMHO did all the documentation necesssary. I don't have to prove anything to you, Chrishayden Especially after you used your own phrasing to inaccurately state my case, putting your own spin on it in order to try and make your feeble point. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1455
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 05:02 pm: |
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Cynique:
You got to prove EVERYTHING to me and you may as well start right now. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2595
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 05:30 pm: |
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I don't have to prove ANYTHING to you, Chrishayden. Why is that so hard for you to accept??? And boy! do I commend Brian for doing what anybody with any sense would do and that is to ignore you and your specious arguments. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1458
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
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Cynique:
You aren't Rustang in Cyberdrag, are you? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2604
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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No, Chrishayden, but I'm beginning to this Roxie person is you giving equal time to your feminine side. Ick. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:24 pm: |
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Go on up the board and read my posting of the Fuentes speech and improve that mess of mush you call a mind. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2607
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:48 pm: |
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I don't take orders from you, Knuckle head. It ain't my fault if you're a poor loser. I aint reading shit because I don't need you or anybody else to tell me what I previously said, that Alex Haley is not a villain. So go back to suckin your thumb if you can take it out of your ass long enough. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:57 pm: |
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Cynique:
Would you lick it clean before I do?
C'mon. You know you like that chewy choklit! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 2610
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 02:02 pm: |
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You bore me. |
Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 02:58 pm: |
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Wow,
I had no idea such an innocent question would bring about a civil war of sorts. I must have been away from the board for too long as I had always remembered Chris Hayden to be a gentleman of stern intellect. I was always encouraged, inspired and intrigued by his comments. But it almost seems as though someone has hacked into his computer and began typing lewd and crass remarks in his absence.
Chris if I've done something to upset you, I'm sorry that you're upset. If my initial query has offended you, I'm disappointed that we could not argue the points by taking a more civil and humble course.
All the best,
Brian
Oh by the way, here are few of many links to the charges you have charge me with charging.
http://www.martinlutherking.org/roots.html
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45084
http://160.36.208.47/FMPro?-db=tnencyc&-format=tdetail.htm&-lay=web&entryid=H004 &-find=
http://www.aim.org/publications/briefings/2002/11feb2002.html
In case you'd like to research it further, here's a link to the papers Nobile used to write his Village Voice article which many believe to be the fatal dagger.
For the record, I'm a fan of Haley, I just wanted to know would the book have been as impact if the words "A Novel" had been on the cover.
Should you feel the need to discuss this in greater detail, feel free to call me. I'm in the book and always look forward to spirited debate with gentlemen.
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Itwwm34
First Time Poster
Username: Itwwm34
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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Root's credit should have gone to Harold Courlander, who sued Haley for plagiarism in court and won. It’s not about fact or fiction it's about theft, and credit owed to Courlander who wrote “the African” only to have his work lifted verbatim ‘over 80 passages” by Haley. But Courlander was not as well known as Haley, Courlander didn’t have the “the Autobiography of Malcolm X to his credit. True, the powerful uncovering of slavery needs constant revisiting. But did that make it right for Haley to pad his book ‘Roots’ with the sweat and thoughts of almost unknown writer? No. The evidence in court documents was astounding as to how much was plagiarized, so much so that Haley settled out of court with Courlander for a mere sum of $650,000. Haley indeed was found to have fictionalized his ancestry in the book. He could have at least shared authorship with Courlander. And what about the book royalties and TV movie profits that followed. Who out there would have wanted to be in Courlander shoes? How many people even remember the book “the African”? |
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