The Coffee Will Make You Black
Reading Group's On-line Chat Transcript 
for Our November 2000 Selection

The Messenger: The Rise and Fall of Elijah Muhammad
(click to buy this book online now)

by Karl Evanzz

Format: Hardcover, 656pp.
ISBN: 067944260X
Publisher: Pantheon Books
Pub. Date: July  1999

Chat Held
December 6th 2000
9:00 PM EST

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[themostbeautifulist] hi
[themostbeautifulist] hardly anyone here I see
[themostbeautifulist] HELLO
Thumper6488> hello
[themostbeautifulist] ANYONE HOME
Thumper6488> how are you doing
[themostbeautifulist] I'M GREAT AND U
[themostbeautifulist] ?
Thumper6488> I'm doing very well.
[themostbeautifulist] BET U DON'T KNOW WHO THIS IS
Thumper6488> Melisha
[themostbeautifulist] LOLOLOLOL
[themostbeautifulist] NOPE
Thumper6488> ta bonne fee
[themostbeautifulist] I almost forgot about chat tonight
[themostbeautifulist] no its me
[themostbeautifulist] Ralphie
Thumper6488> who's me
[themostbeautifulist] Baby Ralphie
Thumper6488> Who's that?
[themostbeautifulist] duh your best friend
[themostbeautifulist] oh okay
[themostbeautifulist] u don't get it
Thumper6488> I'm talking to my best friend on the phone
Thumper6488> Carey
[themostbeautifulist] its melisha
[themostbeautifulist] duhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[themostbeautifulist] u know ralphie
Thumper6488> I said Melisha and you said no
[themostbeautifulist] ?
Thumper6488> GLYPH
[themostbeautifulist] cause I didn't want u to know
[themostbeautifulist] lol
Thumper6488> LOL
[themostbeautifulist] duuhhhhhhh
[themostbeautifulist] lol
[themostbeautifulist] so where is everyone?
[themostbeautifulist] what is carey doing?
Thumper6488> I think Carey came a little early
Thumper6488> Did you finish the book.
[themostbeautifulist] which?
Thumper6488> Elijah Muhammad
[themostbeautifulist] of course
[themostbeautifulist] NOT
[themostbeautifulist] I couldn't take it
[themostbeautifulist] too much
[themostbeautifulist] I got to about 130
[themostbeautifulist] pages
[themostbeautifulist] then I started reading glyph
>> Careycarey has joined channel #XC.1141852
Thumper6488> too much information
[themostbeautifulist] now I'm reading higgins clark
Thumper6488> Too big of a book.
Thumper6488> Hello Carey.
[themostbeautifulist] yep
[themostbeautifulist] hey carey!
[Careycarey] THello I had some problem with my PC . What's up?

[Careycarey] I had come early too. And then The thing Froze up>
Thumper6488> I know, I say you and spoke and you didn't respond
Thumper6488> so I kept reading Tobacco Road
Thumper6488> LOL
Thumper6488> White folk, they're funny
[Careycarey] Oaky have we started on the book?
Thumper6488> No, we were just about to start.
[themostbeautifulist] yall go ahead
[themostbeautifulist] I'll watch
Thumper6488> Carey, did you finish the book?
[Careycarey] Thermo huh. Yep I did.!!
Thumper6488> Did you like it?
[Careycarey] I don't know where to begin?
[Careycarey] Liek it?... Well it was interesting and very informative.
Thumper6488> Did the book change your opinion of Elijah Muhammad.
Thumper6488> Was the book fair?
[Careycarey] DID YOU?... Yeah I hate to say that it did, the man waswicked
- a gruel to say the least.
[Careycarey] Fair in what respect.?
[themostbeautifulist] what was your thought before carey?
Thumper6488> Objective?
[Careycarey] My thoughts... I wanted to give the man his props for started
- something that many had found faith and hope wiht.
[Careycarey] And I still feel that way but I think the man was just afellow
- who needed somethng to make hoim feel big.
[themostbeautifulist] I think he was a product of that era
[themostbeautifulist] just like many black men then
[Careycarey] Product of what era Hell in was in the thang for 50 years
[Careycarey] MOney and power has been around for ever.
Thumper6488> I never held a high opinion of him. I'm sure you couldtell.
[themostbeautifulist] but I'm saying so many black men during that timewere
- on the same level
[themostbeautifulist] marcus garvey
[Careycarey] What era are you speaking of themo
[themostbeautifulist] drew ali
[themostbeautifulist] the turn of the century up until 30s
Thumper6488> Melisha, I disagree with you on that one.
[Careycarey] I think he was serious at one time but was really wasn'tsmart
- enough to hold to his own bekliefs.. 30's and... what does that infer?
[Careycarey] Thermo.. Ex[plain what you mean.
[themostbeautifulist] carey I'm Melisha
[Careycarey] MELISHA???J
[themostbeautifulist] why is it that we 3 always talking anyway?
[themostbeautifulist] lol
[Careycarey] What's this themo thing

[themostbeautifulist] anyway I just think there were a lot of black men
- around that time doing the same thing
Thumper6488> Doing what?
[themostbeautifulist] I think that was the point the author was tryingto
- make
[Careycarey] But M time has nothing to do with greed and power.. don'typou
- think so?
[themostbeautifulist] using religion to "lead the black man to salvation"
[themostbeautifulist] or politics
[themostbeautifulist] yeah I know Carey I didn't say that
[Careycarey] NO that's religion and it's ben around for ever remember
[themostbeautifulist] I was just saying that at that time so many people
- were doing that stuff
[themostbeautifulist] I agree with u on that point Carey
[Careycarey] STUFF???? What preaching to get the white man off thereback
- and finding a true relgion?
[themostbeautifulist] I'm just saying that at that time everyone wastrying
- to be the black man's savior
[Careycarey] What was wrong eith that?
Thumper6488> I do believe that many have seen, and continue to see black
- folks as a means of getting over. Be it Elijah Muhammad or the Democratic
- party.
[Careycarey] Look, the man had a good idea but got drunk on power!
[themostbeautifulist] true
[themostbeautifulist] true too
[Careycarey] What about the FBI Y'all?
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[Careycarey] HI T-bone!!!
[tabonnefee] hey Big Bruh!
Thumper6488> I'm not saying that some of the things he preached wasn'ttrue,
- they are. But because of his position, he held a greater responsibility.
[Careycarey] I had no Ideal the Muslim did so much killing did youguys
[themostbeautifulist] hey tab
[Careycarey] Sorry thump continue.
[themostbeautifulist] yeah
[tabonnefee] hey themostbeautifulist
TO tabonnefee> Hey, there ta bonne fee. How are you doing? How didyour
- class turn out? <smile>
[themostbeautifulist] I knew there were rivalries
[Careycarey] Can we get on one line of discussion?
[themostbeautifulist] almost like gang activity
Thumper6488> Hold one everyone
Thumper6488> Let's slow down.
[Careycarey] Okay.
[PRIVATE FROM tabonnefee] doing well ... thanks (aside form this migraine)
- class was all right
Thumper6488> I was just saying that I understood some of the things +
Thumper6488> that Elijah Muhammad preached. But he had to at least follow
- his own rules +
Thumper6488> He showed himself to be a hypocrite. For example how can
Thumper6488> a person be ex-communicated from the sect
[themostbeautifulist] but thump were they his own rules?
Thumper6488> for adultery, yet Muhammad had 11 illegitimate children
[themostbeautifulist] well first what do u consider his own rules
[themostbeautifulist] ?
[themostbeautifulist] u mean morals?
Thumper6488> He preached and kicked people out of the sect because of
- adultery.
[themostbeautifulist] oh that yeah i agree with you on that
[themostbeautifulist] that was crazy
Thumper6488> Then why have all of these children. Why allow his sonsto
- have these affairs?
Thumper6488> So right there, I was done with him.
Thumper6488> And I haven't touched on Malcolm X's murder and that mafia
- business.
[tabonnefee] Thump ... it's the parent mentality ... do as I say, notas I
- do
[Careycarey] Okay thump I agree but what about the NOI in general arethey
- for real?
Thumper6488> EXACTLY!
Thumper6488> Carey: I can't say one way or the other.
[Careycarey] I agree T-boanre and is that wrong can they still have
- something to say a we can learn about/
Thumper6488> Carey: I feel that whatever gets you through the night,is
- fine with me.

mostbeautifulist] was it even his doctrine to begin with?
[themostbeautifulist] that's the question I had the entire time?
[Careycarey] I think it was M. I think he truely had a vision of blackunity
- and power.
[tabonnefee] Thump ... if you focus on the messenger as opposed to the
- message we're in for a rude awakening in any arena
[themostbeautifulist] I think he spread it
[Careycarey] That's very true T very true.
[themostbeautifulist] but I think fard introduceed it
[Careycarey] Forget were it came from M That';s not important at all.
[themostbeautifulist] but t that message he was preaching was old
[Careycarey] OLD>??? how so?
[themostbeautifulist] blacks were talking aabout unity for years
[themostbeautifulist] booker t
[themostbeautifulist] marcus garvey
[tabonnefee] old does not necessarily mean defunct or archaic
[Careycarey] Wait a minute M we had just left slavery remeber.
[themostbeautifulist] other grass roots preachers
[themostbeautifulist] he just took it furhter with the help of malcolmx
[Careycarey] What preachers NM??
[Careycarey] Now your talking . Malcolm was the man.
[themostbeautifulist] i didnt say that tab but I'm saying this messege
- didn't start with him
[Careycarey] The book really took off when malcolm arrived.
[themostbeautifulist] carey we weren't that close to slavery
[Careycarey] M.. You'll have to explain yourself better .
[tabonnefee] I see themost
[Careycarey] WHSAT M only abpout 50 years.
Thumper6488> I don't think that we ever left slavery.
[themostbeautifulist] more like 80
[tabonnefee] I agree Thump
[themostbeautifulist] oh oh thump

[themostbeautifulist] thump about to preach
[themostbeautifulist] lol
[tabonnefee] tell it!
[themostbeautifulist] preach on brother thump
Thumper6488> Well, it's true.
[Careycarey] M did you finish the book.
Thumper6488> We are still dealing with slavery and all of the fruit it
- bears.
[themostbeautifulist] I bow out Carey
[themostbeautifulist] lol
[themostbeautifulist] tell u the truth I hated the book
[Careycarey] Did any of you know of the killing that the muslims were
- involved in?
[themostbeautifulist] so I started reading glyph
[Careycarey] Hated the book why?
[tabonnefee] I didn't Carey
Thumper6488> Carey: The killings did surprise me.
[themostbeautifulist] I just wasn't feeling all that information
[Careycarey] T it was worth the time really I really got into it. I learned
- some things.
[themostbeautifulist] Maybe if I were studying the man I would have enjoyed
- it
Thumper6488> I agree. It really took off when Malcolm
[Careycarey] Whiach killing surprised you the most Thump?
[themostbeautifulist] but I wasn't interested like that
[themostbeautifulist] maybe I'll finish in days to come
Thumper6488> The massacre of the family
Thumper6488> the nine day old baby. I was almost in tears.
[Careycarey] Yeah Thump that was brutal wasn't it?
[themostbeautifulist] oh yeah I heard about that one thump
Thumper6488> After that, I was done.
[Careycarey] Shot him in the head . What kind of pewrson can do that?
Thumper6488> I have to apologize to you Carey. I know I was hard onyou in
- the discussion board. +
[Careycarey] Does anyone care to comment on the FBI and the shit theywere
- into?
Thumper6488> but I had just got through reading about that and I waslivid!
Thumper6488> Man! Talk about tenacity!!
[Careycarey] What,...apoligize for what.?
Thumper6488> The FBI, Hoover, had problems!
[Careycarey] Do you think he cared much for blacks *smile*
Thumper6488> For being rough with you on the discussion boad when wewere
- talking about the book.
[Careycarey] Oh that ain't nothing Thump.

[Careycarey] So was?is the NOI about money for it's leaders?
[tabonnefee] Carey wouldn't think you loved him anymore if you didn'tfuss
- at him, Thump ...lol
Thumper6488> I don't know. It would be sad if it was.
Thumper6488> LOL
[Careycarey] What else was of interest to you all about the book?
[Careycarey] M I know you hated it but why?
Thumper6488> I may complain about the information, but I did like reading
- it.
[Careycarey] T, did you reads much of it?
Thumper6488> I learned a lot of things reading this book.
[Careycarey] Me too Thump. very very informative.. Seems like the FBIhad a
- file on everyoine.
[Careycarey] Not just blacks either!
[tabonnefee] Carey ... what do you think?...lol
[Careycarey] NOPE NOT A BIT *smile*
Thumper6488> I didn't know that there was a bill introduced that would
- re-instate slavery. This time it was called peonage. Did any of youknow
- about that?
[themostbeautifulist] I don't know I'm just gonna bow out for now
[Careycarey] I didn't know a thing about it Thump where did you readthat
- at?
[Careycarey] WHY M where are you going did I say something wrong?
Thumper6488> Evanzz mentioned toward the beginning of the book.
[Careycarey] Realy thump I must have missed it.
Thumper6488> Some bill introduced around 1900 from a southern senator.
[Careycarey] Does anyone know what happened to all the kids of Muhammeds?
Thumper6488> nope
[tabonnefee] nope
[Careycarey] What about his son that lived over seas?
Thumper6488> nope
[Careycarey] WHY did you chose this book thump?
Thumper6488> Well... +
Thumper6488> I chose it because I thought it read well..
[Careycarey] Ann says hello to everyone. Thanks for the e-mails Jen.
Thumper6488> And I had just finished the autobiography of malcolm x
[Careycarey] Oh you read it before you made it a selection?
Thumper6488> but, before I dumped all of the hostility on Elijah, I though
- maybe I should be open minded enough to see his side of the story.
Thumper6488> Yeah, I read it before I chose the Elijah Muhammad book
[Careycarey] Now that was a great book. But I don't really think allof it
- was malcolm s words I just didn't trust Hally (sp)
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>> tabonnefee has joined channel #XC.1141852
Thumper6488> I know that there are many that didn't like Elijah becauseof
- it.
[tabonnefee] geeezzz
Thumper6488> But we really didn't know anything about the man.
[Careycarey] Okay
[tabonnefee] Miss Ann!!!!! .... sending MUCH love!!
Thumper6488> now we do.
[Careycarey] Okay what's the next book?
[Careycarey] * stars for this one from me.
TO Careycarey> Tell Miss Ann, I said, Hey Miss Ann, Who are you? *bigsmile*
Thumper6488> The next book is the book that
Thumper6488> the AALBC visitors voted on
[themostbeautifulist] what book is that/
[themostbeautifulist] ?
Thumper6488> and selected
Thumper6488> Blues Dancing by Dian McKinney Whetstone (sp)
[Careycarey] Now I remeber, I voted for that book.
[themostbeautifulist] ok
[Careycarey] Ann has read it already and say's it deep.
Thumper6488> I have it, and I just got a notice that it is now in paperback
[Careycarey] Yeah I seen that on the board.
[Careycarey] I like hard covers myself.
Thumper6488> Carey: Really? Does she like it? Ask her real quick.
[themostbeautifulist] I like paperbacks
[Careycarey] Yeah she likes it she loves every thing by that women really!
[Careycarey] I don't have to ask her on that one.
Thumper6488> I like Tempest Rising very much.
[Careycarey] She swaers by that women!!
[tabonnefee] I'll read it wwhen I'm in Jamaica
[Careycarey] Black gold didn'
[Careycarey] t like it very much.
[themostbeautifulist] jamaica? u go girl?
[themostbeautifulist] !
[tabonnefee] ^5 ...lol
[themostbeautifulist] when u going tab?
[Careycarey] JAMACA HUHU> WOW
[tabonnefee] 22-29th
[Careycarey] GOT another ticket. who are you going weith?
[tabonnefee] taking all my brats
[themostbeautifulist] tab u going on a cruise?
[Careycarey] That's no fun.LOL
[tabonnefee] nope ... flying into Montego Bay and then going somewherequiet
[themostbeautifulist] hey thump
[Careycarey] Thump are you really going ot read Du Bois
[tabonnefee] did anyone ever read Skin Deep?
[themostbeautifulist] what's up with percival everett?
[Careycarey] NO T and she hasn't sent my copies!!!
Thumper6488> Carey: Yes, January is DuBois month
Thumper6488> And I'm going to read both volumes
Thumper6488> Are you Ready.
[themostbeautifulist] THUMP
[tabonnefee] you want me to send you mine Carey?
[Careycarey] OKY now, if you don't I will telllthe world. lol
Thumper6488> Melisha: What do you want to know about Percival Everett.
[tabonnefee] Thump ... you'll need more than a month ...lol
[themostbeautifulist] remember what we talked about
[Careycarey] No T. I'll wait but thanks.
[themostbeautifulist] getting him in for an interview
Thumper6488> Melisha: Still working on it.
[themostbeautifulist] how does that look?

Thumper6488> ta bonne fee: Have you read the books in questions?

Thumper6488> I read Chris's first chapter yesterday.
[tabonnefee] just bits and pieces Thump

Thumper6488> ta bonne fee: Of which book, the first or the newest one.
[Careycarey] I did too.
Thumper6488> Carey: There's some potential there.

[Careycarey] Yeah you're right.
[Careycarey] T, what are you reading"?
[tabonnefee] one of the Tamara Hayle mysteries
[tabonnefee] you know I'm not good with titles ...lol
[Careycarey] Really??!!! so you've gotten hooked on mysterys huh.
[tabonnefee] shhhhhhhh ...yep ....lol
[themostbeautifulist] where evil sleeps tab?
[Careycarey] That okay and I can't spell.
[themostbeautifulist] that one was good
[Careycarey] Okay y'all I'm going to be going to bed. never can tellwhen I
- might have to hit it and go out.
[tabonnefee] perhaps ... who knows what the title is ...lol
[tabonnefee] awww... Big Bruh ...don't leave me!!!!
[Careycarey] That doen't even sound right T. hahaha.
Thumper6488> OK, let's call it a night. Thanks for coming everyone.
[Careycarey] Nit all,.
Thumper6488> The next book is Blues Dancing.
[Careycarey] Thanks thump for ahaving us.
[themostbeautifulist] nite
[tabonnefee] sweet dreams all ... night
Thumper6488> Sure. Not a problem.